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Armageddon, please.
18 years ago
General
A disturbing revelation occurred to me while I was watching a History Channel documentary about the Book of Revelations. It's about the so-called "Rapture"--which, by the way, is NOT a concept put forth by the Bible. It was actually documented by a Reverend in the 1800s (I think it was) who had decided to plot the End Times out on an elaborate graph. While he was working on it, his daughter had a "vision" (I call them dreams) that Jesus would return to spirit the Faithful away bodily BEFORE he officially Returned to oversee Judgment. He included it on his chart and coined the term for it.
Anyway, the point is that all the world's true Christians will be wafted away on clouds or something to Heaven and the rest of us get left to hash out the actual end of the world. Then I think about Bush--a self proclaimed Evangelical Christian--starting a destabilizing set of conflicts and wars in the Middle East with a group of equally devote and psychotic fundamentalist conservatives, except with a diametrically opposed concept--that THEY are the chosen and beloved of God. Basically he started a war with with what he seems to consider enemies of his faith. They already want to kill us and he's made sure that they believe we really want to destroy them all too, thus creating a new cold war enemy--only it's more like a hot war! (Please remember that while Iraq was sympathetic to Al qaeda, it didn't actually have ANYTHING to do with the attacks on the WTC...that's a whole other, actually justified war.)
ANYWAY, the point I'm trying to get to is that Bush and his fundamentalist ilk have a vested interest in fermenting difficulties with Islamic extremists rather than resolving them. Why, because they believe that they are working toward God's stated goal of a global conflict between good and evil that will result in the "End Times", and thus the Rapture and Judgment days.
This strikes me as INCREDIBLY selfish on the part of fundamentalist Christians! They work toward starting Armageddon because they believe they will be scooped up and all of us left behind will have war and famine and pestilence, etc to deal with.
Well, thanks a whole hell of a fucking LOT! You bastards!
Good thing it's all bullshit. If they do actually ever bring about the end of the world, they'll be really annoyed when they end up in the middle of the carnage with the rest of us. But, you know--I CAN WAIT to see the looks on their faces.
In the meantime...can we maybe put people in the White House from now on who AREN'T consciously or subconsciously trying to destroy the fucking world??? Is that too much to ask?
*sigh* I must be one the rag... Do gay guys get that?
Anyway, the point is that all the world's true Christians will be wafted away on clouds or something to Heaven and the rest of us get left to hash out the actual end of the world. Then I think about Bush--a self proclaimed Evangelical Christian--starting a destabilizing set of conflicts and wars in the Middle East with a group of equally devote and psychotic fundamentalist conservatives, except with a diametrically opposed concept--that THEY are the chosen and beloved of God. Basically he started a war with with what he seems to consider enemies of his faith. They already want to kill us and he's made sure that they believe we really want to destroy them all too, thus creating a new cold war enemy--only it's more like a hot war! (Please remember that while Iraq was sympathetic to Al qaeda, it didn't actually have ANYTHING to do with the attacks on the WTC...that's a whole other, actually justified war.)
ANYWAY, the point I'm trying to get to is that Bush and his fundamentalist ilk have a vested interest in fermenting difficulties with Islamic extremists rather than resolving them. Why, because they believe that they are working toward God's stated goal of a global conflict between good and evil that will result in the "End Times", and thus the Rapture and Judgment days.
This strikes me as INCREDIBLY selfish on the part of fundamentalist Christians! They work toward starting Armageddon because they believe they will be scooped up and all of us left behind will have war and famine and pestilence, etc to deal with.
Well, thanks a whole hell of a fucking LOT! You bastards!
Good thing it's all bullshit. If they do actually ever bring about the end of the world, they'll be really annoyed when they end up in the middle of the carnage with the rest of us. But, you know--I CAN WAIT to see the looks on their faces.
In the meantime...can we maybe put people in the White House from now on who AREN'T consciously or subconsciously trying to destroy the fucking world??? Is that too much to ask?
*sigh* I must be one the rag... Do gay guys get that?
And Bush's "faith" isn't centered around a cross.....it's a $.
I hate Virginia...
I don't believe in the Rapture, but not because it isn't part of the Bible. I don't except the Bible as the actual "Word" of God, either.
But as long as you aren't actually trying to fuck me over because I don't believe with you, then we're good!
Wait....can I say that in this context?
I say to Dubya, "Look in a mirror"
I'm surprised he hasn't gotten impeached yet. Even other Republicans are ashamed of him now.
I also personally believe holding Iraq is a good strategic place to taunt the ever growing China... but that's something else. But ya gotta think also, if it's just a war for oil, then why the hell havn't we received the benefits of it? Gas is just as expensive as it's ever been if not more since the US went to war... I see it more likely the US just wanted to have a lot of guns over it to keep others away (heaven forbid another war starts), or just to remind other countries that it wouldn't be that hard to take what we need/want... who knows... if ya ask me, every government's fucked.
Sorry for rambling and carrying on -__-'
Perhaps the answer lies somewhere in the middle.
Every government is fucked - because they are all gigantic gangs of thugs who have legalized their own thievery.
Farmer purchases land (Land and sales tax)
Spends a year tilling and farming the land (Property tax)
Cuts and sells grain (Sales and income tax)
Grainery refines and sells (Sales and incomes tax)
Baker produces many baked goods and sells them (Taxed yet again)
as just one example... You can't make a fucking dollar in the US at any stage and not have it be taxed... unless you get pain under the table... but that's tax evasion, you get V& for that.
But seriously, if
...If
...Holy shit.
lol Well, not like
well will all die, sorry to say, but we will all die, hopefully at the same time.
Do people really think there is a "heaven" per se, maybe there is a place we go but its not like we will be separated, "all men are created equal.." so it came from our constitution, but wasn't that quoted or something, saying we are all equal no matter what?
If they split from the Republican party, at least it will weaken them (I hope). We're in DEEP trouble if religious fundamentalists start winning more elections.
I don't know if Bush is as nuts as you're suggesting, but I do know religious fundamentalism REALLY creeps me out. I've had people tell me that there's no way to know right from wrong without studying the Bible, and that any concepts of right and wrong I have are because I've learned the Bible's word from other people. Um... yeah...
I'm not an Atheist but I am an agnostic in that I don't claim to know what's true. What I DO think I know is religious fundamentalism is probably the greatest threat the world faces, next to (unchecked) industrial capitalism.
We live in such a scary world indeed.
i was raised catholic... but sometimes i see those who are more popist than the pope... as to mean even more bible fanactic that the one that considers himself JC representative on the world...
but you're absolutly wright sir... next full scale conflict will be created by religion...
there are several untied ends on arabic world... first and most importan, Israel state... not that jews dont have the right to have a country... the problem was how the process was done... and the lack of acceptation of the neighbour islamic countries... but that is also a pretext used... those who have power are afraid to loose it... so in the impossible event of israel disapear there would always be a new thing to demonize and to claim for or against...
then you can not fight an idea by weapons but by creating another more viable path that could void the other idea... in the islamic world what they percive as an attack to their faith closes them further on the intolerance... and opens doors to manipulative leaders...
and to think that most works of the antian classics only survived because of the arabic empire...
well good and evil are only a point of view... and ultimatly we all go end into hell... because if each religion belives that they are the sole granter of salvation all the others will end in the hell... but everyone belives that the one they are its the right one...
well another sociological treat from your country... legaly there is no religion... and still your president swears so help me god...
Most of the candidates of both parties are in favor of some flavor of National Health Care - and this is a far more deadly problem. The Dutch flavor seems to be in vogue. Search The Lancet for the past dozen years or so for "euthanasia" and you will find that it is a very common way of reducing "resource utilization" there. This isn't assisted suicide - it is killing people without their permission - murder.
National health care might not be an automatic cure-all, but automatically tying ANY flavour of it to <i>involuntary euthanasia</i> is beyond stupid.
Some people involved in a national health care system performing euthanasia DOES NOT equate to everyone involved in a national health care system wanting to do so. Learn some basic logic.
http://www.gmu.edu/jbc/
You're the one who presented people who are "in favor of some flavor of National Health Care" as a "deadly problem", without any sort of qualification. This sort of reference carries an extremely strong connotation that ALL supporters of nationalised health care are also in support of involuntary euthanasia, when there are quite obviously people who are in the first category that are NOT in the second(human euthanasia, voluntary or otherwise, is not legal in all countries that have national health care).
If that's not presenting with a bias, I don't know what is.
And that's all I have to say on the matter. End of discussion.
http://www.gmu.edu/jbc/
And There's much much more to blame than just Bush. It really gets annoying to see people throw the blame at him. And I certainly do not presume to invalidate anyone's feelings or opinions. But there are senators, state representatives and so on all working in conjunction with the things people cry outrage at.
This country is run by far more than one man. People need to PAY ATTENTION to more than one election every 4 years.
You may very well be shocked to see what your senators and reps have voted on.
It never would have happened if he hadn't pushed for it as hard as he possibly could, with the power of this country behind him. Don't tell me he isn't responsible. He didn't do it alone, but he made it happen.
I truly do not mean to insult you, or even upset you. But to be frank, that sort of mentality isn't productive.
The entire US government, and subsequently it's people who 'elected' that government are to blame. We as a nation have become disinterested in our own country. We have grown lazy and fat off of ourselves. And sadly this is the process of any Republic. Bush is the personification of flaws and corrupting that stem throughout. We as a nation have become complaisant to such methods because we just can't be bothered with an alternative.
As I said, I do not mean to insult you, to be honest, I do not disagree with your outrage, but to focus it on one man perpetuates a non-productive method of thinking. If we all want things to get better, we need to stop talking about how much it sucks, and -make- it better. Otherwise, we've earned this fate.
As I said, there is plenty of blame to go around for anyone who either turned a blind eye, or actually voted to help him do it. I'm just saying, it couldn't have been done without his personal desire to get it done. But hey, he's the President of the United States--and to a certain degree, the buck DOES, in fact, stop on his desk.
And, by the way--I TRIED to make it better. I voted against him. Twice. Didn't help. But supporting him and turning a blind eye to his inadequacies doesn't help either.
I love this country, but it has flaws. Of course I want to make it better, but I think that a majority of people really do believe a lot of the things he believes in...and frankly that scares me most of all. He was able to do it because he DOES have a lot of backers and support. So yes, I blame them too. And I blame the evil, idiotic, zaelous, Islamic assholes who handed him a blank check to do it too. I think he would have invaded Iraq whether we'd ever been attacked or not. But we were...not by Iraq, but it got us over there.
I don't mean to be so uptight. I have actually thought a great deal about this. I DO see many hypocrisies and ignorant or selfish decisions made on many front for many reasons. I certainly don't blindly follow Democratic candidates, or think they are all perfect. GOD, no. But I do, in fact, honestly believe that with all their faults, they are the lesser of two evils...usually.
Now if you were around in the time of the late 30's and saw the three hitlers wanting to rule the world then would you do anything about it? Roosevelt tried he only succeeded in getting rid of Adolf of Germany, Tojo of Japan (post humously) and only becoiming a temporary allie to Stalin.
If YOU were in charge of the USA in those time Like Bush is today would you just crawl into a shell and state like Chamberlin, "peace in our time!"
A statement . there is more oil and natural gas in the offshore regioons and in the entire Gulf of mexico and portions of south america than in all of Saudi Arabia and Iran combined! So if Bush is only a believer in the $ and only wants middle east oil WHY has he not declared war on Mexico and South America to take thier oil???? i mean it is infinately closer.
I know also something that is held secret by both parties that do run the country but not the economy. neither will ever come out and state what this is, but you can find proof that is why the democrats want more laws and why the deficit is halved without raising taxes by the republicans each year. It was several trillon now it is in the low billions. HOW?
I know do you?
They remind me of my dad. I shudder to think of being in an actual emergency situation with him. He's just the person to fight you for control of the wheel while the bus careens over the cliff.
Why are you pointing the finger of blame at fundamentalist Christians for the action of one insane US leader? Just because you feel George may want to have a hand in the "second comming" (not something I personally subscribe to) doesn't mean EVERY Christian is looking forward to getting the ball rolling.
having grown up in a Christian environment, I can safely say many Christians fear the rapture. Many are afraid they will lose unsaved freinds and loved ones in itme and some have self doubt and are also afraid of being left behind.
I am agreeing with most of what you are saying but lets stick to the facts of what we know of certain persons and less generalizing that 'all' Christians feel the same way.
HUGS... :)
Agreed!
It seems fewer and fewer realize what it is to adopt a faith for personal growth and guidance, while more 'crusade' under it.
I have no problem with spirituality, I have no problem if you believe in God. I just have a problem when you say I can't live my life the way I want to or feel is acceptable because you don't agree with it. (I mean a rhetorical "you", not you personally.)
Unfortunately, the worry that some might have that unsaved people will get left behind just makes the propagada more effective tho... But I only meant the ones who seemed to be trying to bring the end of the world closer.
I know all Christians don't feel the same way--in fact, it seems to be difficult to find groups of ANY religion whose beliefs all line up in one direction. I don't know if that's their problem...or their salvation.
But then again I think the war-mongers would just look for other reasons to dominate and kill their fellow humans. I feel in most cases, religion is more of an excuse rather then a motive <cough.. Bush.. cough...>. :)
At least we have our dreams...
People are hypocrites. It's a sad, sad thing, really, but what can you really do? Point out their errors and they'll say you persecute or they'll tell you to "remove the plank from thine own eyes." Lose-lose, really.
Seperate church and state....our forefathers would be disgusted.
If you don't believe in a separation of church and state, you should go and live in Iran for a while...see how well a theocracy is working for them...
And if they saw these assholes believing their agenda as divinity, then our forefathers would be completely disgusted.
Anyway, you would have to find out whether Bush is a Premillennialist. Most of the mainline churches are actually Amillennialist, that is, the time of the millennium is metaphorical, and started with Christ's ascension to heaven, and continues today. It is the churches with a pentecostal bent that lean towards the Premillennialist viewpoint.
Apparently G.W. Bush is a member of the United Methodist Church, whose official stance on millennialism is that they have no official stance. So the theory that he contributed to the conflict in the Middle East in order to bring about the tribulation is highly speculative, on three grounds. The first is whether Bush actually holds that view, the second is whether a premillennialist would actually attempt to bring about the end times deliberately, and finally, whether Islam is the opponent that could bring about that day - the USSR, when it was still around, was a much better candidate for this position (nukes, anyone?)
One last note: this is hardly original, as people said much the same thing about Reagan and the Soviet Union - and I'd like to note that the world is still around despite that...
In any case, I tend to suspect that most of our leaders in this country, at least, who purport to be very religious are merely _saying_ they are.
But there have been times that I've been concerned that we might have religious extremists in our government that _would_ cheerfully head us into armageddon.
And I don't know about all gay guys, but I think I get something akin to PMS - just without cramps.