Eh lol

Say what ya want, but everything that ya do has benefits and consequences. It's the balance of existence.

My position is that militant views (against religion, for instance) can be expressed in FA... but in the drawings, not the journals

That's the thing about life. No matter what you do or say, there will always be a naysayer somewhere.

Everyone needs faith, as well, since that's all some people have. Though it's being warped, at least some people know to tell the difference between faith and so-called Divine Right.

other than that...people are people.

Oh, pfft. People shouldn't be offended so easily in the first place...

I mean as long as you're not sprouting pure hateful bullshit you should be able to say your mind...

There are two absolutes in life, and they aren't death and taxes. (I've seen plenty of rich people get out of taxes and Religious people argue that the soul is immortal.)

They are prejudice and hypocrisy. EVERYONE, myself included, is predisposed against something and hypocrisies inevitably arise from those prejudices. So there is no way NOT to offend someone.

Ehhhh, I guess. The biggest problem is learning how to live and let live, and if you can't do that be able to debate rather than flame.

It's my own unreachable utopia.

Everyone should have their own unreachable utopia!

*chuckles* For a group that is supposed to "turn the other cheek," some Christians seem to be easily offended these days. At least the noisy ones. Makes me wonder how "Christian" they really are.

i know what you mean, tallyhawk,i went to a "christian" school from k-12(yes they do exsist :P)
anyways, out of all the ppl that came through those doors i only meet about a handfull (i still talk to 3/4 of them) who arent easily offended, unless you say they themselves do that then you might want to dig a grave :P (thats me included, hate when i get thrown in with the rest of the 80% christians in america, im a Christian, no donomination do i have. not catholic, baptist, or any others.)

Then you're a better person than I am. I personally enjoy attempting to reroute people's beliefs, particularly in Christianity. Although, I do it civilly through reasonable debate and I have yet to succeed. I have managed to push a few agnostics off the fence, but I highly doubt I will ever succeed in convincing Christians (or any other religious peoples) of anything. They have significant (and convenient) provisions in their faiths which teach that wisdom is evil and questioning god's authority is wrong.

I wouldn't have a problem with religion if there were actually such a thing as separation of church and state. But there really isn't. For example: So many politicians say: "I am for equality" yet they hedge around the gay issues. Whether one thinks gays are evil abominations who will rot in hell for eternity or not, if you say you are for equality, then you are for gay rights. Anything else is either hypocrisy or religion sticking its dick in a place where it doesn't belong.

i call chicken and egg.

i think fundamental moral ideas like murder is bad, stealing is bad came with civilization, when people first started to live together in groups. you can't have civilization without some prohibition against murder etc. -- in order to be able to live together, you need to be able to go to sleep without worrying about getting murdered by your neighbor.

i think people then decided to treat these ideas as coming from god, because it was so much easier to say "god says don't do that" than to explain the idea of civilization each time somebody wasn't behaving.

Most of our founding fathers were deists, not Christians, and few if any of them were openly religious. In fact, a few of our founding fathers were outspoken about their disdain for religion.

Besides, separation of church and state is a pretty unambiguous clause. Morals can exist just fine without religion, and they should.

Morals don't come from religion, morals come from society. At least, that's what sociology teaches us (if I am to go by what I've learned in my classes).

Now, I don't think the founding fathers referred to religion, necessarily, for it was they who said this shall be a country with freedom of religion, freedom of speech, etc. And since each religion varies and this country doesn't contain people of just one religion, trying to have morals and therefore laws based on that religion is unfair and hypocritical.

Now, not to say I don't see where you're coming from, because I do. I don't really see it happening, either. Even if they were to try to separate church and state, I'm sure the court system would continue to fuck it up anyway, since it fucks up everything else.

Wisdom is evil? What on earth gave you that idea? I'm a Christian, and I have never thought wisdom was evil or even bad.. Nor have I ever said anything negative about anyone questioning God.. Heck I've done it myself in certain situations. o.o So I don't understand this whole need to say that all Christians are alike. :)

I can't remember the exact passages, but there are several that say blessed are those who think like children, the wise are fools, and blah blah. There are a bunch of them. I'll look them up if you really insist. I believe a few are in the beatitudes and a few are in psalms... unless I am mistaken.

Well you can disregard anything in the Old Testament, since I already do that.. And as for the new.. Well.. While I believe in the things it says for the most part, I also firmly believe that it was written by people based on what they saw and what they were told, and sometimes things change a bit when you write it down..

Basically, my philosophy is that believe in what you must, but do keep the ability to think for yourself. Common sense will get you far, and wisdom even further. Faith is a personal thing to me, and something that gives me a form of comfort, and I'm not afraid to admit that. True, I might be wrong, but I wont know that until it's already too late, so hey.. Neither you nor I will get to do the whole "HAH! I told you so" routine. ;)

Sounds good to me.

If you're ignoring the OT, you're also missing out on the book of Proverbs...

I'm not saying I never read it. I like some of it, as there are some really interesting, and in my eyes truthful, stories there, but that doesn't mean I follow the rules. Now the Book of Proverbs not only provides some really nice pieces of advice, but also some hints on how to best act in certain situations, which are advices I enjoy, and sometimes follow, but those aren't rules telling me how to act. They are guidelines and suggestions (for the most part). :)

i propose that the fundamental problem is the assumption that Faith is a virtue.
as for sticking dicks in places.. i suggest to stick to cucumbers... cuz canteloupes are just not kosher...

mankind devised gods to cope with the felling of smallness and helplessness agains the wild...
even today that felling can be mesured... can be a very strong energy... and a such strong felling that can simply make sistems crash as an attack against religion can be seen as an ad homine attack... ultimatly if there is a good he or she is in every religion and the problem is not the good but his/her messangers that make the message as good as to please them... still is a fascinating subject religion is to have an high level conversation

I believe mankind devised gods to explain the unexplainable. No idea how we came to exist, so God created us. How did I heal so quickly? God. Who put the bop in the bop shoo bop and why is it glowing? God did, and that's why it's glowing, too!

i have no compunctions about insulting religion. it's ok... I'll do it for you.

I enjoyed reading your last post, actually.

Thanks--the bit about Christians being selfish for causing the end of the world so they could skip out and leave the rest of us to face the music WAS actually meant to be ironic and amusing...to a certain degree anyway.

It's dark humor, which I lurv.

well ve have talked alot about relidgion pup and well im not saying any thing as its allready been said * huggles * dont beet your self up ok ^^ see ya this weekend

I'm an apatheist, meaning that I stopped caring about religion. All I care about is a religion's ability to be part of modern society. So far, certain groups haven't been doing very well in this respect, though I worry about the Islamic terrorists more than I do the annoying domestic Christian fundamentalists.

Ted Haggard, Jimmy Swaggart, Pat Robertson, Kent Hovind, John Hagee, Paula White, Kirk Cameron, Jerry Falwell, Fred Phelps...
and.... nothing.. makes me grimace harder with a tear in my eye.. than this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliba.....tment_of_women
A Cult of Death.... NO.. excuses

Yep. The way I see it, at least Pat Robertson and such aren't killing anyone. >_>

i forgot Benny Hinn..... they sure get a loooooot more airtime... good for business too.
and yes.. Pat did Katrina, and the Tsunami, he wished for it, he's proud of it, and believes he did the right thing. oh money sweet money.

I enjoyed your last post, actually. When I read it I found nothing that should be insulting to Christians, but a lot that should be insulting to Bush. ;) I'd say don't worry about those whom you offended, however, I can't tell you to avoid religious topics in your journal, because I avoid them for the most part. :/

you see, i prefer to be a contextualist rather than a fundamentalist...its the meaning behind it all that matters. did god say kill all gays? or did he say protect yourself from gay LUST?

Westboro baptist church hates you... for being insufficiently hateful.

They are definitely a fine example of the Christian equivolent to Islam Extremists. We can only be thankful that their activities are limited by the laws of our country and by their own cowardice! Otherwise they'd be just as bad as the Terrorists--and some of them probably are anyway!

hateful? how am i being hateful? calling lust a bad thing?

ah the power of definition. it's easy to have incongruencies when definitions are left intentionally vague. cherry picking, cherry picking. Christians can't even agree on the definition of Christian. who can possibly have the correct view? one has got to be very sure they're on the right criterion if they're going to devote... their entire life.. and being to something?
as for Lust... i'll say that Candor is liberating.

....what? i say lust is a bad thing and you go on about something about defenition? if you love someone that you wish to have sex with it, i believe thats fine. if you wanna have sex with just some random dude (and i dont mean "he's a cutey") then im sure that's ok, but whatever floats your boat

what a horrible oversimplification. I'm not that much of a hornball.
Try to realize what a vast majority of art on this wonderful FA is inspired by. the female artists will statistically be love-emotive based inspiration, if that's what you're looking for. While the male artists tend to find subjects that optimize the peak excitation of the Dopaminergic thought loops. you love it, you want it, you need it, no one is free from it, there are no exceptions.

ok, where did i say im so pure and mighty from lust? i am a contextualists but i was meerly using that passage as an example since it seems that passage is etched on the foreheads of pretty much every fundamentalists.

Actually the Ancient Romans considered sexuality through the filters of the active and passive roles. To be active and dominant in sexual acts was perfect okay. It was the passive role in homosexuality (and female dominant heterosexuality) that the Romans judged as unmanly, weak and dispicable. The general Christian view at that time was that any form of sexual activity that could not result in pregnancy was sinful. The Romans were just as daming of passive homosexuals as were the Christians.

See that's the problem--interpretation. I prefer this approach: God didn't "say" anything. These things were written by human beings who had no science or empirical understanding of the way things work beyond observational evidence, several thousand years ago. They were guided entirely by the mythologies, stories and beliefs they grew up learning which were a hodgepodge of religious dogmas and ideals from all the previous generations.

So I don't feel bound by them as anything more than historical and mythological curiosities, and I certainly don't intend to let my personal liberties and interests be curtailed by the confused and even conflicting interpretations of those writings. Especially where such interests are not in any way harmful to other people, I mean we still need laws.

exactly

yeah!... woulda been a hell of a lot more convenient if God delineated all the information in Grey's Anatomy(the surgeon's bible) instead of waiting for us to investigate it our damn selves. Viruses... *gasp* Pi=3? and what in the hell did the Lions eat immediately after getting off the Ark?
*eats a pile of bacon and washes it down with milk*

God supposedly did write something: the 10 commandments. That's really all the guidelines he physically wrote. Not really elaborate, but at least we have that.
Personally, the first few commandments make him look selfish. He does say he's a jealous god, when he's talking about not bowing to other gods.
I'm not sure when animals were allowed to eat meat, I've heard that they were all vegetarians at first. After the flood drained away, Noah was allowed to eat meat for the first time(psh, yeah, good time for that, when there are only 2 of each remaining). As for lions, I'm not sure when they were allowed to eat meat according to the Bible. A search on my mom's Bible CD turned up nothing on that, nor did a quick question to ASK.com.
Personally, I think humans and lions always ate meat, as I don't hold much stock in old texts that have degraded over time and can't be verified to not just be bedtime stories. Yep, I'm an atheist raised as a Christian.

All individually reported experiences are subjective. That is because experiences are *interpreted* by the “experiencer”. Some of the filters of interpretation are the “experiencer’s” intelligence, capacities of communication, cultural mind-set, emotional state of mind, and the near-sightedness that is imposed by the various compartments of group-think that we all choose to belong to.

A good physical example of this form of ‘interpreting’ is to consult the artworks made by Japanese artists of the visit of the American admiral Matthew Perry to isolationist Japan in 1853. Even when trying to faithfully report what they saw, the Japanese artists could not break out of their own cultural way of seeing things to “report” photographic views of what they saw. What was put down with brush and ink were images of barely human-looking creatures coming from alien sea vessels.

So even if we fall back on believing only what our eyes see, and only what we alone experience, we are still just trusting in the “truth” of our own interpretations as individuals over those of any others. ‘I’m right and everyone else might be wrong.’ Certainly not a good focus to be entering a classroom or any other situation with.

A society can only exist when there are shared common beliefs and values. Even unseen interpretations.
;)

well there is one advantage to actually offending someone. If you offend them you find their true character and their true nature. If you dont you are simply working on information they supply.

insulting someone is also the easiest way to get someones attention and to get information from them. i insult and question and annoy with the intent to gather information... some 'umans say 'quit hating' i dont hate any one group o.o i hate every one equally so i can get more information XD >.> call me a nut if you wish but thats what i do XD

each of the 'main' religions frown on homosexuality. Christianity is a homgenized form evolved for the gentiles from the Hebrew one. Islam is derived from both and you have to have a Iman or priest to evaluate what is meant per generation of the poems the Koran is composed of. The Bible was at one time only able to be evaluated by priests that could read in latin, therefore whatever they said was what 'it meant'.
In working magic only doing one form of sex or energy production is an abomination as stated by Aliester Crowley in the Book Magic in Theory and Practice; however love in all of its many petaled blossom is adored by God. If you love the same sex as you are this is approved, if you love the opposite sex as you this is approved. If you only lust or have sex only to have fun this is what all religions try to describe as being wrong. Even same sex fun is abomination UNLESS it is is for procreation or an act of love.
Any religionous beaureacrat is incorrect if they discount this fact, if you love you cannot be wrong.
end of religion primer 101

Well it wasn't until recently that same sex relationships became widely accepted in may christian religions. And christianity has been more than homgenized from Hebrew, it's been completly altered.

In the Hebrew religion it was never acceptable to participate in christmas, same sex relations, witch craft, sex outside of marriage, ect...

As for God loving all petald blossom forms of love, in my mind it remains to be seen because there are so many religions out there that have their own versions of what God hates or loves, the cristain bible says he loves them, the Hebrew bible says it's an abomination, the Koran I don't know because i've never read it, and every Muslim I speak to has a different belief. (I.e. some can and some can't even pick up a glass of wine, even if they don't drink it, some take their god's name in vain regularly, others don't) It's all a perspective, or what you've grown up to believe as "true".

I'm not an aithest I follow closely to the beliefs and observances spoken of in the New King James version of the bible. But i'm also able to look at things from a rational non religious perspective.

here's one more for you the first five books of the bible were written by Moses, Yes? these five were written by a Man/leader pharoh's ex-son trained in both Egyptian Magic as well as Quaballa. So there fore the first three letters of the bible are a transliteration of what it actually means. Berashith is transliterated to mean in the beginning. B R Sh. What these three letters actually mean written out from the CODE moses wrote them in is How God made the world some seventeen pages of translated from code; text in english.
So since this is true as per Rabbi Simeon ben Jochai via Moses de Leon of Spain. Is it not apparent that the bible from which so many state is the word of God is in fact explaining more than the transliterated version, even the King James version, or the Aremaic version or the Gnostic, Masonic and Latin ones all only transliterate what Moses wrote in code. And the Tradition of writing down 'God's word in code' continued through to Malachai.
But i guess you did not know that you had a log in your eye trying to inform me of the mote in mine.
The bible is the word of God, however you don't have to be a Rabbi anymore to decipher its meaning. Also it is unnessesary to transcribe it into a book for the priests and another for the masses as in the case of the Catholics.
The Koran is a collection of verses written down by someone else after oral tradition, after Mohameed was told them by what he stated was the Arch-angel Gabriel, in a cave far out in the desert with noone else around nor any witnesses in 300 miles. You just have to take Mohameed's word for it.
unfortunately Gabriel is mispronounced the name is actually Gobriel not Gabriel. So i wonder knowing that David's son Solomon bound up demons and evil Djinn in clay bottles and had them hid in the farthest deserts what was it that Mohameed a simple nomad of the desert though a rich caravan merchant who married into money from a life of being an orphan and an outcast from his own tribe, what was it he REALLY stumbled upon.
When you call up certain Arch-demons from the depths in ceremonial black magic, (more potent forms are ancient Arabic in origin), many of them still look like golden Angels with white fluffy wings brandishing flaming swords Lucifer most of all.
The last age was the age of Pisces otherwise known as the age of submission or litterally the age of prisons.
This age is the age of Aquarius, so in saying eventually we just might reinterprete what God meant being that this is the age of freedom! ((An age is 2000 years))

So if there are positive consequences to offensive or insulting behavior, then one can only wonder about those to be gained by engaging in physical violence. Walking up to someone and kicking them in the groin or smashing them in the face for instance might lead to all sorts of information being gained!
:)

It is your journal, so you set the parameters. Nevertheless, discussion of religion, while controversial, is necessary for reform. Where would we be if Martin Luther had not nailed his theses to a church door? (A Papal monopoly, thats where.) One of my ancestors was murdered in Salem, Mass, as a witch - and it was extensive critical discussion of the Salem witchcraft trials that brought such horrors to an end.

Race, religion, and politics are and always have been very touchy subjects. I'm a little more conservative than I would be liberal, yet the not so far lefties have some points here and there. But it's the waaayyy out there lefties that scare me.

Only because they say a bunch of off the wall, straight up crazy shit sometimes. I just keep thinking..."Yea keep drinking your koolaid there buddy". The right wingers are a bit out there too, but they're more hypocritical, they say one thing like protecting the environment is crucial, yet there they are in their Crysler gas guzzlers, and their Porche POS's.

its your journal if you feel the need to say something then say f others dont like it too bad its your view of things the whole free speach thing

me an religon dont go well had a pastor tell me hours after my mother died that since she was in a coma and couldnt as for last rights or a prayer before she left she went to hell

that and the inconsistancys ive found

its a nice book the bible but after MAN has translated it numerous times and had his editng ways with it its very hard to belive it any more

Hey, I'm Jewish. I don't think my religious faith was swayed in any way by your rant. I laughed a bit because the most recent news on Bush and Fiends is that they are neither religious nor very interesed in the Religious Right or its agenda. They make fun of the RR, and laugh at them.

So you'd know.

No one's religious views have ever been swayed by anything I've ever had to say.

LOL

Thanks for the laugh. I really appreciate your brain. And your sense of humor.

Your art is cool too. Sexy as fuck too.

Thanks...best compliment I've had in days.

Hey, if I like you, I'll always let you know. And in your case, it's no problem. You are obviously a talented guy, and your stuff gets me up and makes me wish I had someone to share it with (the art and the feeling lol).

The fact you're atheistic, or agnostic, or whatever is just a part of what you are.

JR

its ironic how christians say they r open-minded when they r repelling alot of things...

So with all this open-mindedness about discussing the faults of Christianity, does anyone find anything offensive or off-putting with anti-gay rhetoric or the occasional "fag joke" in the office place or here on FA?

Actually, it didn't used to bother me, but the more I understand the hatred and ignorance that foster the attitudes that generate those remarks, the more they annoy me. Although, I'm usually willing to let it slide, in the interests of not being a self-righteous ass.

Although, the other day the guy emptying our trash cans was complaining about the management and called them "a bunch of goddamned fags" while emptying MY garbage. Of course, as far as I know, I'm one of only two gay persons in our office. He was using "fag" specifically to be as insulting as he could be.

If i was in earshot i'd calmly get up and straighten him up then get ready to slap the shit out of him, then say "guess what i'm your wose nightmare a gay furry artist that is 6'4 knows quite a lot of karate and is going to kick your ass and make you look like a pussy bitch right in front of everybody unless of course you apologise right the fuck now! all with a pleasant smile on my face. :D

I think "fag jokes" in the office place are just as taboo as sex and race jokes. As for FA, it's on teh intarwebz. Nothing is taboo on teh intarwebz. I'm a gay furry Christian. That's almost a joke in and of itself, and I don't mind.

I don't blame you for that, tho I still remind you that the freedome of speach gives you the rigth to tal about what you want to talk about. This nation was built on teh Christian ways, but then again the old houses where made with lead based paint. Similarity?

I myself try never to get into anything political and religious, due to the fact that they are two of the worst subjects to talk about. However, I do agree with you on Christianity...and all religions for that matter, I just don't believe in something that has absolutely no proof of existance :P

What is the saying: Never talk about sex, politics or religion. It seems to be the taboo discussion of our society. Though I think in our day in age, the most taboo in order are: religion, politics and sex.