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PSN RANT
14 years ago
Commisions are: OPEN
Now, I bet most people expect me to go on an angry rant about how much I hate Sony for not disclosing information about the hacking, personal information being compromised, and rumors of no compensation being thought up of for users. However, that's not what I'm going to really talk about.
Yes I understand why people are upset that Sony didn't release information that (we assume) they had for days (and even then, we can't assume how much info was initially discovered by Sony during those first few days), and I can understand those who pay for PS+ (myself included) being eager to hear if we'll be given the week or so back on our subscription fee. However, 75 million users info have been compromised. I want you to think about that, if you were in charge of this situation, and you had to think of what to do. How would it even be possible, without the bankruptcy of your company, to compensate for that many users?
Even then, that's not really the point I wanna get across. No, the point I want to get across is that the Hackers responsible seem to be getting little to no blame for this. Sure, I see comments on the PSN articles, and a few people calling for blood, but it seems the media is more concerned with Sony's faults.
To really get an idea of how absurd all this is, let's go back a bit. We all know that hackers have been trying for years to break the PS3, a system that probably had some of the coolest things available, like Linux and the other OS feature. Then hackers tried to use it to break the PS3, so Sony, in order to keep it's console and game developers safe, removed the feature (which; in the terms of service, which we all signed, is in their right to, if it adversely affects the company or other users). Funny thing is; people got mad at Sony; one asshat wanted to sue Sony for over a hundred dollars. Really? Were those features (most of which weren't used) that expensive to you? But no, it wasn't the hackers' fault, it was Sony, for taking down the feature.
Then we had the 2nd attempt to break the PS3, as sort of a reactionary hacking to the removal of the other OS. One particular hacker even tried to get himself a job by hacking the PS3 and sharing the info. Yeah, this isn't a movie, where the good guys hire the hacker to fight other hackers, grow up.
Sony sued the individual, and the hackers of the internet teamed up with anonymous to protect their right to illegally pirate games and hack their PS3. Fortunately, all they really could do was freeze up the servers for a couple of hours, and even more fortunately, Sony settled the issue out-of-court. Anonymous mostly gave up, but rumors crept around that some were angry that the hacker didn't "fight the good fight".
So now were here, left wondering if our private information is being tampered with, and apparently it's all Sony's fault. Not enough people seem to want to call out the hackers for their bullshit, and point out how hypocritical it is that they wanted to attack Sony for infringing on their supposed rights, while taking down PSN for 75 million users, and stealing personal information about them.
Listen; these assholes aren't heroes, they aren't fighting the good fight, they're out for themselves, they always have been, and this whole debacle is more evidence that you cannot trust them when they say "we're only hacking it to add features". I'm a pretty darn liberal guy, and I believe that customers should have the right to do what they want with what they own. But when sign a LEGAL document saying that you won't abuse a system, and do it anyway, you are asking for trouble. STOP DRAGGING EVERYONE DOWN WITH YOU.
First was the Linux/other OS
Now it's the entire PSN, and 75 million users personal information
No one fucking cares if you can't pirate games, in fact; we're happy you can't, because it means that we won't have to play with a bunch of fucking children who would sooner break all the toys, than let others enjoy them, just because they can't have them for free.
Yes I understand why people are upset that Sony didn't release information that (we assume) they had for days (and even then, we can't assume how much info was initially discovered by Sony during those first few days), and I can understand those who pay for PS+ (myself included) being eager to hear if we'll be given the week or so back on our subscription fee. However, 75 million users info have been compromised. I want you to think about that, if you were in charge of this situation, and you had to think of what to do. How would it even be possible, without the bankruptcy of your company, to compensate for that many users?
Even then, that's not really the point I wanna get across. No, the point I want to get across is that the Hackers responsible seem to be getting little to no blame for this. Sure, I see comments on the PSN articles, and a few people calling for blood, but it seems the media is more concerned with Sony's faults.
To really get an idea of how absurd all this is, let's go back a bit. We all know that hackers have been trying for years to break the PS3, a system that probably had some of the coolest things available, like Linux and the other OS feature. Then hackers tried to use it to break the PS3, so Sony, in order to keep it's console and game developers safe, removed the feature (which; in the terms of service, which we all signed, is in their right to, if it adversely affects the company or other users). Funny thing is; people got mad at Sony; one asshat wanted to sue Sony for over a hundred dollars. Really? Were those features (most of which weren't used) that expensive to you? But no, it wasn't the hackers' fault, it was Sony, for taking down the feature.
Then we had the 2nd attempt to break the PS3, as sort of a reactionary hacking to the removal of the other OS. One particular hacker even tried to get himself a job by hacking the PS3 and sharing the info. Yeah, this isn't a movie, where the good guys hire the hacker to fight other hackers, grow up.
Sony sued the individual, and the hackers of the internet teamed up with anonymous to protect their right to illegally pirate games and hack their PS3. Fortunately, all they really could do was freeze up the servers for a couple of hours, and even more fortunately, Sony settled the issue out-of-court. Anonymous mostly gave up, but rumors crept around that some were angry that the hacker didn't "fight the good fight".
So now were here, left wondering if our private information is being tampered with, and apparently it's all Sony's fault. Not enough people seem to want to call out the hackers for their bullshit, and point out how hypocritical it is that they wanted to attack Sony for infringing on their supposed rights, while taking down PSN for 75 million users, and stealing personal information about them.
Listen; these assholes aren't heroes, they aren't fighting the good fight, they're out for themselves, they always have been, and this whole debacle is more evidence that you cannot trust them when they say "we're only hacking it to add features". I'm a pretty darn liberal guy, and I believe that customers should have the right to do what they want with what they own. But when sign a LEGAL document saying that you won't abuse a system, and do it anyway, you are asking for trouble. STOP DRAGGING EVERYONE DOWN WITH YOU.
First was the Linux/other OS
Now it's the entire PSN, and 75 million users personal information
No one fucking cares if you can't pirate games, in fact; we're happy you can't, because it means that we won't have to play with a bunch of fucking children who would sooner break all the toys, than let others enjoy them, just because they can't have them for free.
Again, they're out for themselves, not us.
but thanks anyway o w o
I used to have a hacked card for my DSi, but that was only for games I couldn't otherwise obtain legally because not everything is available here, or for games I already owned a copy of, I still bought friggin games for it if they were released or otherwise importable here.
Shit is just ridiculous, so much effort wasted, and for what? Those lazy neckbearded shits could be making something of their lives instead of being closed up in their rooms trying to buttfuck hardware they spent hundreds of whatever currency on.
And the hackers will probably play this off as some great poetic justice. . .
Portal 2 just came out
thankfully the PS3 version comes with a free Steam version for your PC
I'm still gonna jailbreak my PS3 sooner or later, though. Being a student with government funding is hard!
because company doesn't want you pirate games
all in the hopes that doing exactly what the company doesn't want you to do
is going to change their mind
sorry, still trying to wrap my head around how that's supposed to work.　(；´A`)
really, people want pirated games that they can't just pirate elsewhere, and they want them so bad, that they are willing to annoy and inconvenience all of the other users of PSN.
besides, it kinda defeats their own purposes if they expose themselves to the public and make even so much of their presense known rather than lingering back and stepping up their game whenever sony says they've had enough.
another exciting game of foot bullet.
Sadly, it doesn't look like they'll be learning that anytime soon
If sony blocks, and never tell then they have a right to be sued nuff said.
Even though it was the consumers fault still... the consumer has the god given right to know what is going on.
And guess what it made it even WORSE for sony for keeping that information on hold.
Now I somehow hope this will make sony bankrupt
Because they actually deserve it.
and your information would still be compromised
and no network would be reestablished
you're asking for the "everyone loses" route. . .
They screwed everyone over, and now since you can not actually see the problem about what is actually happening with sony all you can do is blame the customer.
When the company's own trust is within question.
So now sony has to fork up, and deal with the consequences of their own actions.
Sony didn't screw you over, certain hackers did, and over 70 million more. Sony just didn't protect you well enough.
But then again, you're more concerned with compensation, than with actually apprehending those who really harmed you and others.
Tell me, if someone breaks into your neighbor's house in the dead of night and steals all their possessions, would you tell them it's THEIR fault for not accidentally leaving their window cracked open that night? Or it's THEIR fault for not having more locks on their doors? Or would you be pissed that someone was a huge asshole and robbed your neighbor?
Now I can understand you getting pissed if they stole your friends stuff, and some things that you lent him, but is it really his fault?
First, I don't know where you got your information from, but much of it is off.
-77 million user accounts (ALL of PSN pretty much) were compromised.
-We still don't know who the hacker is, but we can definitely say that it wasn't the "main hacker" (more on that in a second), any of the other hackers, or Anonymous (although I personally suspect that it may be a sub-group of Anon or something). And yes, SONY did know about the intrusion; however, at the time SONY was doing a press conference on their soon to be release PlayStation Tablet, and letting this information known then would have been bad press for them (as well as for their stocks, which they also had conveniently wait for).
-The individual you speak of, the "main hacker", is Geoffrey Hotz, or more commonly known as Geohot. The very first thing that Geohot did when he came to the community was say that he wasn't going to make a customized firmware, and he would never support piracy. However, we he first came to the scene, it wasn't really there or developed anyway. All he did was make some code to try and get around the hypervisor blocks in Linux (NOT XMB or GameOS) so that he could get some support for the RSX (the graphics chip in the PS3). That's all. To even use this code, you had to open your PS3 and solder some stuff around). Maybe, like, 3 people tried to use this hack. SONY got wind of this and immediately released firmware 3.21. And of all days, April 1, like it was funny. Basically a slap in the face of everyone. The hack wasn't even finished, and it was only intended for developers anyway.
-It is indeed illegal for SONY to remove OtherOS. They are in fact still in a class action lawsuit over it that has been going on for more than a year. When you advertise that your product can do something, and then you remove functionality from a product, especially when you advertise about it, that is illegal. And 100 US dollars is not going to bankrupt a multi-billion dollar corporation any time soon. Some people, like the US Army and Staford University, used this feature extensively, as it provided a sort of cheap supercomputer to regular consumers.
-Long before anyone even tried to hack the PS3 (there will always be someone that wants to hack something - more on that in a second), SONY themselves invited hackers and scientists to a conference to hack the PS3, like it was a game or something. They had always gloated over their security (which they had stolen from MIT, by the way) was uncompromisable (remember this...). So of course they would hurry to try and cover up a hack when it appeared because they don't want to seem weak.
-The same hacker (Geohot) didn't try to get a job or whatever it is you meant by hacking the PS3. See, when SONY took away OtherOS, everyone blamed Geohot like it was his fault. He probably had something to do with that, but what most people forget is that SONY was already taking away OtherOS (and PS2 backward compatibility) support from the Slim series. He felt responsible and insisted that he sit down and try to bring back Linux. In order to do that, he felt he needed to make a custom firmware, so he set out to do that, but just as when he first came into the scene, he reiterated that he would not be supporting piracy, and as such he DID NOT program backup support into his custom firmware.
-Since then, and technically since the very beginning, Geohot and a team called fail0verflow have always been trying to bring Linux back to EVERYONE. And they, again, have never supported piracy and still don't.
-Geohot got sued a few months ago, but he and SONY settled on the end of March. As such, Geohot can try to hack another PlayStation product ever again. What you're missing is all the stuff that happened during the court case, such as SONY being given the right to do anything they wanted (like most people with money...). They took his computer and illegally (they asked for permission, after the fact) copied all of his files, they got German SWAT to raid a hacker's home, one of the ones involved in trying to bring back Linux, they tried to get the home addresses of EVERYONE who even looked at Geohot's video on YouTube, and they also tried to get the IP addresses of everyone who went to his website.
-With that being said, SONY even changed PSN to SNEA (SONY Network Entertainment America) that forces you to agree with them or your PSN account will be deleted. You HAVE to give them MORE information, including a credit card, even if you don't plan on using it (remember this, this is important...). They basically did this so that they can more easily find anyone that hacks their system and sue them easier.
-No one teams up with Anonymous. They just kinda pop out of nowhere and do their own thing. They attacked PSN and took it offline. But after people complained to them that they were suffering on their attack against SONY, they stopped their attacks. These attacks were supposed to last indefinitely, but instead stopped in one day.
-SONY Europe tried blaming this whole thing on Anonymous, and everyone else on the hackers. But this is not the fault of the hackers. Anonymous is not doing this, and the "main hackers" have never done and will never do anything like this. However, it is important to note that some of them have done their own research, and found very bad security on the PSN. Credit card information is saved in .txt format. And this is rather old news to us actually. Keep in mind, though, that this isn't the first time PSN has been compromised. This is about the 3rd or 4th, possibly even 5th time. SONY had always gloated about their security, and tried to cover any hacks up when they came to fruition. But they couldn't cover something like this up, and they can't really blame anyone other than themselves in the long run for not even trying to make PSN secure.
Second, please stop blaming everything on hackers, as though they are the bane for everything. You actually have a lot to be thanking them for... The main hackers have never condoned piracy, and as such have never given the ability to backup games. Someone else came along and did that, and even then they were also against piracy, they just wanted more functionality on the PS3, so they made a backup function. This does give people (after many other hacks) the ability to steal games, but you don't have to be a hacker to steal a game. Hacker does not equal piracy (remember this). ANYONE can be a pirate. Most pirates are regular people. And you don't even need a hack to pirate something. You can still do it the physical way. And even though piracy is hurting many types of industry (not just games), it is important to understand that it is NOT KILLING it (remember this also). While it's understandable that a company wants to protect themselves, they went way too far many times.
I think that these hackers are far more righteous than SONY. They have done nothing but take their time to restore functionality to customers, and give customers the right to use THEIR product that THEY PAID FOR the way THEY WANT TO. Yet SONY has been doing everything in their power to keep them from restoring Linux. And just specifically Linux for whatever reason, as they don't even seem to mind the small amount of piracy on the side. They have raided peoples homes with machine guns in hand, tried to bring a whole company like YouTube to its knees, tried to bring other companies down, and even sued a guy just to stop the restoration of Linux, a function they ILLEGALLY removed. Not that I'm trying to change your mind about SONY and hackers (although you should), but I hope this comment sheds more light on just the kind of company that SONY is. It is clear that they only care about their money and press than they do the customers. They have time and time again done nothing but shit on their customers, their fans, all the people that have tried to help them.
And you know what's messed up? This is just the crap surrounding the PlayStation. SONY has always been known for their horrible dealings. Just ask Nintendo...
And wasn't Nintendo the one that fucked up their own dealing with Sony on the Playstation? I thought they were the ones planning on contracting Sony but also decided to talk with Phillips as well. At least that's I remember hearing a long time ago, but whatever.
I'm not saying Sony's a saint and shouldn't be questioned. But to say this is all their fault is frankly ignorant.
Besides. I think the majority of those 70+ million could have lived without Linux on their PS3.
What I mean to say is, you guys are mixing everyone together and making it seem as though SONY was innocent in this whole matter. I'm willing to bet that this whole ordeal came about because SONY have been taunting everyone the whole time. As a business, it's understandable that they want to protect their products and services. Not to mention, because they are a business that offers a service (PSN), they have an obligation (a real one) to protect all the users of that service from identity infringement. By not adding more security to the PSN, they don't seem to care about the millions that use it. By not even telling any of the users about the attack until 3 days later only reinforces that statement.
As far as the Nintendo thing, from what I understand Nintendo went to SONY so they could create a CD add-on for the SNES to better compete against the SEGA Genesis, SEGA CD, and SEGA 32x that were out at the time (could be wrong on the latter). Negotiations fell through when they couldn't decide on profit splitting, and instead of putting the project away or something, they took what Nintendo gave them and release the PlayStation.
But there is still something wrong with signing an agreement statement, and pretending you didn't. It actually does state in the there can remove features if need be. In certain countries it's illegal to do that, but it really doesn't negate the fact that you signed an agreement and obviously didn't bother to read it.
I don't think Sony's an angel, you've got that really wrong. Sony's a company, not a face, not a person, they obviously had ridiculously weak protection in their system, and were unprepared for any attacks (which is probably why they went to such lengths to stop most hacking and/or piracy). They do what they have to out of a need for profit. You also want to pretend that all this hacking is to bring functionality back to the consumers, fair enough. But Linux can be acquired elsewhere, and was removed mainly due to Sony realizing "well crap, we didn't think this through".
As for dealings, we are speaking of business here. It's rare to ever that you'll come across a company as big as Sony and find a clean record. It's sad, but it's true. And defense of hackers is that, they didn't mean to harm anyone. I'm sorry, but that also doesn't make what happened any less their fault.
It's nice that they created something in an attempt to bring a feature removed back, but when it had become obvious about the risks involved, they should have been more careful with the information, as it was obvious that groups were not as willing to deal solely with restoring a feature.
Obviously Sony is learning the hard way, hubris is a bitch, but for the hackers to say, oh well, it's on all of you; is kind of messed up as well. There are those who have no clue of what has been going on, and no real connection other than owning a PS3 and accessing PSN. Now their info is out, and only Sony should apologize? Sony's got a lot more to do than apologize, but there's a lesson to be learned here for hackers too; BE CAREFUL. Doing what you want with what you own is all fine and good, but sometimes enable some other jackass to do what he/she wants. This is not the old days of hacking an XBOX to play SNES games, now we're all connected, and if one really smart, really dick-ish group of people get their hands on the latest oh-so-well-intentioned hack, they can do a lot of harm.
Also, I didn't say the initial hackers were involved, I'm aware of the fact that most gave up after the issue was settled out of court. I'm also aware of the rumors that a 3rd party got a hold of a way to hack, and steal information.
At the end of the day, you're right about Sony, they are an amoral company; just like Microsoft, just like Nintendo, just like the company that manufacture the very keyboards we use to type. You're entitled to your opinion, and I'm to mine. While I know not all hackers are out to get me, a group has in fact gotten me and 77 (75 from articles I read) million others just got taken advantage of. Sony was arrogant to think they could leave this info so vulnerable, and hackers were naive enough to believe their methods wouldn't be used to do something like this.
I'm wrong on a lot of things; but I am right in wanting to get what I payed for too, and that means PSN, but because of some really convoluted nonsense we all suffer.
Not trying to fight or anything, but I didn't present opinion, I presented facts. Obviously SONY isn't going to write, in detail, all the things that go on behind the scenes. But 77 million accounts? I'm pretty sure that's the biggest security leak ever recorded. And while the blame isn't necessarily to be placed on one entity, blaming it all on hackers isn't the answer.
As far as the EULA goes, personally I don't think that you can just write a long list of things you can't do and assume that as a complete defensive against everything that happens, but I do understand the need for it. The whole deal with Geohot is that SONY (among many other things) tried to insinuate that he had a PSN account and therefor had a contract with PSN, which he doesn't and didn't. As far as everyone else goes, I think that if they had broken their own contract that it then becomes defunct for the most part.
SONY had more than enough time to deal with security. They had ridiculously GOOD security, which is why it took so long for it to be hacked in the first place. The Cell BE chip was even designed with security in mind. However, whenever a security hole came about, instead of seriously taking a look and redesigning a lot of stuff, they just patch it and move on. Which does work in some cases, but not all (that's what all those annoying updates are about whenever you have to update but there doesn't seem to be any more functionality). And as I said, this isn't the first time PSN was compromised. In fact, this same thing happened a couple of years ago, where PSN was compromised and a large number of user accounts had their information stolen (unlike this time where all of the user base was compromised). And instead of doing what they did this time (they shut down PSN and they are "rebuilding it". Should be up in a week), they did a 2 hour maintenance and called it a day. That was years ago. And do keep in mind that SONY is a multi-billion dollar corporation. They have all the staff and money and time they need. They simply downplayed everything like it didn't matter and like it wasn't going to happen again. And instead of trying to truly fix any situation, they just did stupid thing after stupid thing to make it worse on everyone time and time again.
There were no risks involved with using OtherOS (that is one of the points of the hypervisor, to act as a "police program"). All the guy (Geohot) wanted to do was give users full functionality over OtherOS, namely RSX support. Imaging being able to render and model in Blender with the power of a mini super computer! There was absolutely no real reason to take it away. And in order to bring it back, or even begin to bring it back, he made customized firmware. The only thing that it allowed was developers to run unsigned code on the PS3. As I said, it's not like you can just pop in a BD-ROM, press a button and have a ripped disk. And it's not like you can just (at the time. You can kinda do it now) go online and download a game (average size of PS3 games seem to be about 15 GB!).
I've have to disagree about pretty much every big company being immoral. We all know that MicroSuck is a horrible company. There's no getting around that. SONY is really not much different from Microsoft. They just don't seem to mind much about how much bad press about them goes around. Nintendo on the other hand is a great company. They even formed their own R&D (research and development) sub-company so they can make their own stuff. They have great quality, and they treat their customers like customers. If you ask me, N should have sued SONY on the NUMEROUS accounts that they stole from N. You can't honestly sit there and tell me that the PlayStation Move does not look like it was ripped right off a Wiimote. Anyway, there are companies out there that understand the importance of good business-to-customer relations, and then those that seem to think that everyone must bow down to them.
However, when you think of it like that, then EVERYONE becomes a villain of some sort. There will always be some group that won't play by the rules, not your rules or theirs. However, "they" are not "them". You seem to be grouping everyone that you don't agree with into one entity. And that's ultimately what I'm getting at. This intrusion has nothing to do with the PS3 hacking community. Simply because PSN was hacked doesn't mean that it was the fault of the people that hack PS3. That's different. They created new programs for us to use. Some hack the PS3 in order to open new functionality for the rest of us. Some -random- dude that comes out of nowhere and steals user accounts isn't necessarily a PS3 hacker. There's the hacking community, Anonymous (they came outta nowhere, but stopped after a day), and whoever hacked PSN. They have nothing to do with each other.
I understand you have a negative opinion on hackers and people like them. It's not always about piracy and viruses, and it sucks that they have that image about them. Yeah, you get your bad apples. Every group gets them. But are you gonna hold an entire community (about 100,000 people) accountable for the actions of, oh, let's say less than 20? That hardly seems fair or very well thought out to me. I wish I could change out mind, at least as far as hackers go. There are some great things that they have done, and are doing for all of us.
Finally, I admitted that I don't really hold all hackers accountable, just as I don't hold all of Sony accountable. You're obviously very passionate about being able to hack your system, but I am simply saying I'd rather not take such risks with security like this again.
I can understand people being mad over OtherOS being removed (again, it still was in their ToS to do so), but honestly, is it so damn worth all the trouble, negative attention gained, and was it really worth all this?
The initial crew and GeoHot had nothing to do with this attack, I never said they did, as anyone would know that would have been an absolutely idiotic thing to do; especially at such a sensitive time. But while GeoHot and others may not have supported these actions, they still need to know that; when you release information like this, you enable some pretty grimy people to do some harmful things, even if you don't intend for it, or are against it morally.
It's impossible to stop hacking, and piracy (and yes, I know how hard it is to pirate a PS3, but look how hard it was to hack it, did that stop people?), but can we at least see the that the damage done is not entirely just because of random attackers? I'm just saying; you guys can continue to hack to your hearts content, even though you sign a ToS, but be more careful with what it is that your doing.
There was no initial damage done by hacking. This is all just between people who want to be involved and who know the risks of bricking (killing) their console. I suppose there will always be the damage done by piracy, but pirates are a totally separate thing from the hacking community. They have nothing to do with each other, and even if you don't have a modded PS3 you can still upload and download a game (you just can't play it).
To tell the truth, SONY did a lot more damage to themselves by doing everything that they did. When they decided to remove OtherOS, the traffic for hack sites and the number of modded consoles tripled. And everytime they decide to make another genius move, that number keeps going up and up. But what's important is not the number of people that mod their consoles, but the attitudes they have towards SONY, being that they become more enraged with SONY with each move, which only makes it worse for SONY because these loyal fans feel ripped off, which they were (a product of false advertisement, which is illegal).
I also highly doubt Sony's actions a lone were the result of an increased amount of hacking. People, since launch wanted to hack the PS3, since Sony (hubris again) stated that it was near impossible.
People spent years figuring it out, and when there were apparent successes, people flocked to it. What was Sony supposed to do, exactly?
In the position of a business, how do you handle customers violating their ToS? I won't say Sony did the right thing, but I can understand why they did it. They would lose money, and so would their developers. Looking "weak" is harmful to a business' success, and Sony has had a rough start this generation, finally really gaining some powerful momentum wit the amount of content available. Then all this happens, and all we can hear about is hacking, piracy and the like.
I'm actually of the belief that they should have just left things alone and try to work with what Sony gave them, but again, some people are in the belief that they have the right to do whatever they want to a system, regardless of any signed ToS.
Whoever is responsible is still on the loose, and here's hoping their brought to justice.
Yeah, SONY was the cause of many sites tripling, quadrupling, even pentupling in traffic. Keep in mind that OtherOS wasn't the only thing removed, just one thing of many.
Geohot hacked the PS3 in 5 weeks, but it was years after its release.
Personally, I'd have to do a bit more thinking on that (have done some before, as I wouldn't mind having a console). But every console's gonna have a rough start as many of them try to rush to release. SONY wanted to have a stable start this time, but developers claimed the Cell chip was really hard to program for, and the SDK (software development kits) were extremely expensive, thus they forced themselves into an even slower start.
But you're right, whoever did this needs to be found.
This Big...
*hug*
*hugs*
If anyone is worried about their details, dont give it to them. Simple fix.
And dont use PSN.
PC ftw.
I'm still of the firm belief of reading what you sign. Contracts aren't just there to prevent you from getting to the next screen, they're there to have a documentation of you stating "I WILL NOT DO (INSERT CRIME) ON THIS (INSERT SYSTEM)".
Hackers want to pretend that they are simply trying to get what they payed for. Fair enough. But the feature that seems to get so much attention, is the one that enables piracy, and while chances are, most won't use it for that, Sony has the right to remove it if they deem it a threat to their service.
Also, you have the choice of who to give any data to, for example, all that is saved on the internet about me, is my name, country & DOB (Usually fake), and all my alibi's. Whereas PSN needs data to be 'secure', then look surprised when data is accessable.
Ergo - Dont want data nicked - dont give it out. (or save it)
For example, facebook wants me to give them my mobile number, to make is more secure. If I dont give you any data, it reduces the severity of security.
Plus, PC manufactures are less likely to sue you.
Or, in the case of games like Dragon Age 2, sneak it into your computer.
and with a PC, chances are that you use it for more than gaming, and have to put some information online, to get anything done IRL. Online Banking, handeling money for purchases, etc.
Both PS3 and PC offered cards for those who didn't want to put any credit information on their accounts, so there's that. But in some cases, you need to put that information, or other infor like your home address and phone number, on various sites, all of which have varying degrees of protection.
1) People tend not to blame the people comitting a crime when they can blame someone who basically allowed it to happen. If a man was murdered by someone, then you blame the murderer. If the man was murdered by someone who had already murdered someone else but was let go by the police, people will look to the police. In this instance, people are looking to Sony's woefully inadiquate network security as the primary focus of blame.
2) As for compensation, approx 3-4 years ago MS's servers got inundated with a surge of new Live subscriptions. They'd taken precautions leading up to Christmas but the number of people buying a 360 and signing up to Live surprised even them. We had a day, maybe two, of no connectivity and about a week or two of sporadic connectivity and lag spikes. Everyone involved was compensated with a free arcade game and, I think, a free month of Live.
Sony has form for not really caring about the plight of their customers. Not saying Microsoft is beyond reproach here, btw.
Also, I'm not saying Sony shouldn't compensate gamers; I'm just saying it's crazy to expect them to pull any miracles or handle lawsuits from all sides.
for PS+ users, we definitely need some verification if these (week or so, according to Sony) are being calculated into our monthly subscription. And for regular non-paying users of PSN, there should be some form of compensation for the debacle.
I can understand MS giving their users something of value for their outage (which is on MUCH smaller level, when you really think about), but PSN is free, unless you specifically paid for it.
And while MS compensated for time and money, Sony is in a situation where they will need to appease several different demands for compensation, and find one that fits with their interests (let's face it, it's a company trying to make money, just like MS).
Thanks to the group of hackers, we're stuck in a situation where PSN is being rebuilt from the ground up, and Sony decided to release their findings after they had found a solution, which fits from a marketing standpoint of "oh, this happened, but we have a fix". Had Sony released info sooner, the talk would be more on how Sony hasn't done or thought of anything to do fast enough.
Kind of a big deal... :V
At least 2.2 million credit cards were stolen, including about 150,000 German accounts. This probably includes the CVV2 code (those security numbers on the back of credit cards). The people that stole it claim that they have the complete PSN database in this form: "fname, lnam, address, zip, country, phone, email, password, dob, ccnum, CVV2, exp date".
We still don't know who these hackers were, but they tried to sell the database back to SONY, to which SONY did not respond (refused). And since SONY would not buy it back, it is being sold underground to people willing to buy said database.
It has indeed been confirmed that SONY did not have a secure database. Not even encrypted. They were using an old system with old programs, with quite known vulnerabilities. But many of us already knew that for a long time now...
Also, PSN is taking a long time to be rebuilt because SONY is not only just rebuilding the code (which they should have the done the first or second this PSN was compromised...), but they are also moving the PSN servers to a new, more secure location. With that, a new "secure" firmware will be released in March 2011.
secondly, I've already stated that I knew how shitty PSN was protected, several times, and pointed out Sony's hubris in this situation.
also, the new firmware would be released 2 months previous to this one? " With that, a new "secure" firmware will be released in March 2011. "
Also, *flamingly gay voice* Whoopsie!! I meant May. Guess I was thinking of something in March.
I distinctly remember the news breaking on what happened to GeoHot and the like, and the SWAT stuff. it's been on popular and/or credible gaming and news sites (1UP, Google news, etc.). You should be able to give me links to more than just one, if the information is in so many various places.
then there's the analogy from your response to blackbewhite2k7. . . I don't get it. How do you compare a living breathing child to a collection of 0s and 1s that store data? If the family payed the kidnappers back, they'd most likely get their kid back, but if Sony were naive enough to pay the hackers, they'd most likely only receive a copy of the data.
Also, I can find information on the encryption of the credit card info, as well as Sony's plans to hold events to pay back DCU subscribers, and various other forms of reimbursement.
Also, why are you complaining about it coming back in May? The down time was in the last week of April, and Sony said it would take over a week to rework the system. So they weren't lying about how long it would take them.
It depends on your definition of credible. Most websites are just relaying information they got from the official source. A rare few of these may even be able to get their hands on an exclusive interview of sorts. However, what if there was a way to find out what the official reports weren't telling you? That's the kind of source I linked you to.
I think you misread my comment. I was saying that the firmware update was coming out in May, as I accidentally told you March earlier. However, they did first say that it would first take 2 days to bring PSN back online. Then they moved it up to a week. I was just relaying how long it would take, I wasn't rushing.
But my point with wanting to see more is that I can literally find articles about what Sony did during the GeoHot debacle, and I'm sure those actions are pretty bad for PR as well. Is Sony spending money to cover up this info?
either way http://www.techradar.com/news/gamin.....details-949660 this is the first I've really been able to find about it, and some more from another site http://www.psxextreme.com/ps3-news/8976.html
Now what if there was a place that was able to go beyond the official statement? I'm sure it's clear to most people that the official statement isn't the whole statement. There are things that they're not telling us, things they are probably lying about, and things that we really should know. Now, this place is able to bypass that statement by doing their own research, decrypting classified things and looking within the code to find more evidence and more things that no one else could get their hands on. Not to mention, this place has sources that others don't even know exist.
That is the kind of place that I was trying to show you. And that's just one of a few actually, but that's the only one I can remember. I know what credible means, but some people put their own definition on it, and things become complicated.
Sorry for long delay in response. I was...doing stuff.
but I was asking for a site with some source, i.e. where they got their info. I'm not entirely inclined to believe that a forum is the best place to get information on a hacking that has had no real disclosure.
Most of what I've seen when I do look around are conjectures and theories on what is going on, not fact. And I've found no real articles backing up the claim of 22 million users having their credit info hacked. And his came about when Kevin Stevens tweeted that hackers demanded ransom for the credit card info (again, if we're to believe they really had the info, or even would really give it back). Even then, he states he got that info off a forum post on the issue.
the last bit of this dailynews article kind of sums up the situation here as well;
"Despite Sony's assurances, they are warning users to cancel credit cards associated with their PSN accounts.
The Guardian reported that dozens of users have reported fraudulent charges on such cards since the security breach, but makes the point that this could be a statistical coincidence.
"Any sufficiently large number of credit-card owners," like the 77 million PSN users, "is certain to include some who have recently been defrauded by other methods," Guardian blogger Charles Arthur wrote."
with that, I think it's safe to cancel a card, if you have it tied to PSN. There's no assurance that it's really compromised, or that it was compromised via the PSN hacking and not something else, but better safe then sorry.
Even if Sony was stupid enough to pony up the cash for that, these hackers would still have the info, and could sell it to anyone else they want.
Second, aside from psn obviously not having good security, I cant find any confirmation on what you said about the 2.2. million credit cards being stolen and psn taking a year to fix (if that what you meant to type)...In fact I don't know where you get any of your info.
Third, Credit card info was confirmed to be encrypted (as all the other info, admittedly should have been), confirmation on that is easy to find. and even if they made it past that, are you seriously telling me nobody would have been traced. Not saying everyone is doing this, but in the wake of shit storms like these there are people who exploit the crisis and make up fraudulent charges to get money.
Fourth, how did these hacker have tried to contact Sony about such a deal....that would be like painting a bulls eye on your head and asking to be caught...you can tell me sony's not trying to fix this...but there's federal investigation surrounding this shit now. These hackers would have fucked themselves over.
Fifth, why do you believe microsoft to be the same as sony and nintendo to be so much better of a company?
Last one's out of curiosity. Just thought I'd throw my two cents in, and also...My brother and I aren't on a huge tirade against homebrew hackers like you may think...we just trying to be fair, objective and calm about this whole fiasco and focus and the perpetrators of the crime at hand...let's save the usual poo flingin'
at sony for when this is all settled.
It's like a ransom. If you kidnapped someone's kid, you'd dangle that kid in their face and tell them to pay you money if they want their kid back. In this case, I guess they mean to say that they would simply delete all the info they have (assuming SONY still has all the info anyway). I guess I don't know that one.
My information comes from all around. Obviously, you're not going to find stuff like this on official PlayStation blogs or similar. Not to mention, I didn't just run to the first site I found and started copying and pasting info, this is something I've been following for years. PSN was hacked before. More than once. Quite a while ago. More than enough time to fix whatever holes they may have had. Of course, even with "perfect security", there is still the slim chance that a hack can happen.
We've known that credit card info has never been encrypted. Even SONY has (recently) admitted to it not being encrypted. The other info (name, address, phone, etc) was encrypted. All the info just kinda sits behind some more security is all, but the actual data itself is nothing but plain text, as is this message.
There are ways you can contact someone and still remain hidden. I wouldn't know anything about that though. Could have been a through a throw away e-mail or something.
Every business is an entity that creates products or gives a service for profit. They will have their own way of handling things, such as security, customer relations, copyrights, etc. Microsoft is the shadiest company out of the 3. EVERYONE knows that. And I'm not talking about consoles. I mean nearly everything they do. SONY...I don't know what their deal is, but it's like their upper management (way upper, like, CEO level people) think they're samurai or something. They don't seem to care about the customer at all. Nintendo is a very decent company. As I said, they have their own way of handling things, but aside from that, they have great quality, excellent customer relationships, and do very reasonable things.
I'm not sure what you mean, but as my first sentence said, why are you being so hostile? It seems like you're being hostile. Everyone is... I'm not even bashing SONY (I should), I was just stating all the facts of what they were doing behind the scenes.
And Sony'll have a (much needed) stronger system in place, as well as plans for some kind of reimbursement for subscribers.
Kinda makes me wihs I had kept White Knight Chronicles a little longer. . . oh well, WKC2 will be coming out later anyway > w >