i didnt even get a chance to look at it...typical

No worries- it was from July 9th, after I'd come home from a local fur-meet. I'd seen someone kick their dog (admittedly, not hard, but still) and I FREAKED- first on her in person, then vented in the journal. Apparently, she complained that I was "harassing" her. Fucking hilarious, considering in that week, I left one comment on her shouts linking her to the journal so she could read it, suggesting that she give her side of the story (read, make her excuses), and then I commented a total of three times on the journal, nowhere else. No spam, no trolling, no other communication.

I'll quote a favourite film of mine: "I don't think that word means what you think it means..."

IN-CON-CEIVABLE!

Yay! Someone got the reference!

*hugs* sorry

*shrugs* It's a legit beef- the person was named in the comments, and I'd never originally intended that. Please, do not name this person, OK? *hugs*

okay ms. :3

OMIGOD NICK?! It's Kittenguy1, from RuneScape! 8D 'Member me?

Didn't know you were a friend of Murra's. :3 She and I are old pals.

did it have any names in it toward another? [if not then admin abused its power]

Not originally. A visitor who commented on the journal figured it out- I never named her or the dog in the original journal. This is a new admin- a four day-old shout on his page congratulates him on this fact. I personally think he oopsed, but the journal has achieved it's purpose: that of a "bitch-slap from a little thing I like to call reality" regarding the consequences of lying about her dog being a service-animal and for kicking him. She thought it was ok to kick him- lightly- in public, and in front of five witnesses and that this was "being firm and the alpha of his pack". Wait. Whut?

No worries- not gonna name her (sorry), and I hope no one else does either. But, if the admins deem it to be harassment, they can delete the journal as that does violate the site rules. Whether or not I agree with that assessment is irrelevant.

ah that one. only time foot should be involved is if defending self. [or pokeing joke and dog knows your playing around] like barking at toe tip butt hiked into air and paws splayed out hopping sid eot side type body langauge.

Yup, pretty much. Self-defense or play is the only excuse I could accept myself. NO NAMES, ok? The admins removed the journal because the person it was about felt it was harassment. Sure, it makes me grouchy, but I can see their reasoning. I don't have any control over their judgment, and I'm not gonna make a big deal over it. I just want this person to stop the lies and to not use force on her dog. *shrugs*

>.< lol... where have I heard those words before?? lol.

Hmm? Do you mean these---> "a bitch-slap from a little thing I like to call reality." You, my own brain, other places- it's a common idea.

No, I mean this: "But, if the admins deem it to be harassment, they can delete the journal as that does violate the site rules. Whether or not I agree with that assessment is irrelevant."

Seems like not to long ago I used to take a similar stance with certain groups. Such thoughts were actively.. discouraged.. by the admin of said group. I just find it interesting that we have a similarity in the way we regard the whole "due process" leveled by certain folks when we feel that their judgements were hasty and their assessments poor.

Um, we're not gonna get into that, hon. I'm just not up for another round of that particular dead horse. This situation and yours are not in any way similar except in the very vague case of "we disagreed with the admins". That's it. Names were dropped in the thread of my journal- I can accept that this might be seen as "harassment" by the person so named. I don't happen to agree with that person, since I think they are just covering their butt and doing what anthropologist Greg Fine calls "impression management"- making themselves look "good" (or at least, removing any mention of them being "bad"). My only real disagreement with the admins on this one is that they didn't give me the option to either remove the offending portion of the thread or the journal myself. That's it. I do not actually have any problems with their reasons for removing the journal, and I've told them so, both in public, and in private notes. I'm not being hassled, so it's apparently ok to disagree with them, at least on that point.

Your situation was not in relation to expressing ideas (those were valid, as far as I could see), but in the aggressive, antagonistic, and generally dick-headed way you chose to present them. That was all anyone- that I saw- really had a beef with (or at least one certain admin- me). The fact that you continued to be aggressive, antagonistic and generally dick-headed in your presentations- despite multiple warnings and mostly polite requests to be more civil (yes, I understand it got ridiculous and frankly mean- on both sides, after a point)- then tried to turn it into an "I'm being persecuted!" rant-fest of unpleasantness and blanket e-mail spamming of people's inboxes was why things got so heated. After that, it was only reasonable not to expect anyone to want to have to deal with that.

In short, ideas = good- you had those. Valid ideas= even better- ditto. Telling people they're wrong, stupid assholes for not agreeing with you= wrong and stupid and being an asshole. You had some cool ideas- I even said so on more than one occasion. Presentation was fail, that's all.

In other words, if you're still holding a grudge over not getting your way, you'd better deal with that, as that is your baggage, not mine- I've already moved on, thanks. Please, stop trying to make every little spat someone else is having with other people not even in connection to your beef about you. That's fucking weird, man.

O.o Woah.. let me just say I wasn't trying to stir up any old trouble. I was more being a sardonic prick and pointing out that I never thought I'd see the day where our thoughts lined up on the matter of the actions of overzealous administrators looking to score points with their fellows.

My apologies for making it seem like I was trying to cast raise dead on the horse that we've basically mutilated to mulch.

K. I'm kewl wit'dat. It didn't look that way, so I felt the need to make certain on it.

Anyway, I'm still not seeing this alignment you speak of. I never said I thought any admins were trying to score points with anyone. I said that about the dog-kicker, not an admin. I'm kinda confused, now...

*re-reads comment* Hmmm. Ok, still not seeing where I might have implied anything about point-scoring with each other.

I do get the due process thing, though. Yeah, I disagreed with the method in how they dealt with my rant. I disagree with any policy of "delete first, then give the warning". Not cool. Warning FIRST- always, always, always. Give the offender the option to correct their faux pas- in this case deleting or heavily editing the journal and the thread that followed- always, always, always. That's my take on it, anyway- to me, it's simple courtesy, and it gives someone the right their intellectual stuff- this site may be owned by others, but the material it's populated with belongs to it's creator. I wrote that rant, I'm proud of what was in there, it's fuckin' MINE, and it gets under my scales like fuckin' sand-fleas to have someone essentially come along, out of pretty much nowhere, and ruin it with not even a "howdy-do", except after the fact.

The only things that should be zero-tolerance would be things like trolling, racist crap, references to abusing any living thing or any other violation of personal shit- this includes harassment. MY journal was turfed based upon that particular rule. It was deemed harassment. I don't think they quite know what harassment is, regarding this, but hey, I can live with it- I'm not gonna recreate the journal. In fact, I'm considering turfing even this one, since it mentions the situation a little too clearly. I'm not stalking the person that got named in the journal, I never advocated anyone bothering them and I would likely block anyone I caught doing so. I did not want the person trolled, mocked, or in any other way harassed. My very few, limited, comments on their page and that one journal were all the comments I'd made that directly referenced that situation. Everything else since has been analysis, and discussion of the matter.

Anyway, long ranting is long. I think we're clear with each other, anyway.

Goin' ta bed, nao.

Well I certainly made a few harsh comments myself, so I can't sit here and say I didn't contribute to the problem. I'm sure any admin wandering by a journal where a person is being discussed and someone says she can "choke on a dick" due to what she did.. well.. it certainly isn't a pretty or civilized statement.

Anyways.. all I have to say for now is that sleep is for the dead!!

*snerk* Try saying that when you're so dead tired that you're hallucinating and stumbling into things like you were drunk- REALLY hard to function. LOL

And yeah, "suck on a dick" is kinda harsh- it's disgustingly sexist, besides. Implying that some male's penis is a weapon to be used for punishment? Do you even know how fucked up that is? Yuck.

I didn't say suck, I said CHOKE and before you call me sexist for saying that please understand that this anonymous woman is the first female I've ever said this to. Men??? I couldn't count the number of guys I know, some of whom are friends, I've said that to.

Hey.. it is shaped like a dagger right?? XD

As for the dead tired and hallucinating thing? I have said it when I was seeing colors I didn't know exist and when innocent words on IM screens came off as veiled threats, voodoo chants and passes at me.. and I still said sleep is for the dead in wrathful pride defiance of my body's natural functions! Even now I'm typing this with jittery fingers and blood shot eyes. It's how I roll.

Eech. I had a run-in with  chase when he was an admin. He banned me for 24 hours for jokingly talking about fighting him when he removed a friend of mine's journal.

Yeah unfortunately you will always get those few Admins out there who start power tripping. But at the very least he was and admin and still isnt because of actions like that I take it? XD

This was not the case. The journal removed was a call-out with names dropped. It was removed as per FA's TOS

If you're talking about the journal with Murra bitching about that chick who kicked the dog, I read it word for word and not once did she mention the woman's name. In fact, she said that she was deliberately avoiding mentioning the name.
A lot of people just happened to know/guess her from the description.
Idk if it was an edit, but when I read that journal there was no name in it.

When I read it last there was a link to the chicks journal with a rebuttal... which had since been deleted, so there was technically still nothing identifying.

Iiiiiiiiiiii do not remember any such link in the journal body. Perhaps a comment identified her, but Murra should not be held responsible for whoever decides to comment on her journals

It was editted into the journal after the initial posting.

how odd

There was a link- I'd gone to her shouts and linked her to my journal and suggested that she give her side of the story.

Thanks for the support, hon. It means a lot.

X3 you know I'm always a friend hun

*hugglesnuggle*

*purrnom* X3

I actually don't have a beef with, but I never named the person involved- I even made a point of saying so. I gave a time and place for when the incident happened because it was contextual. A visitor to the page asked if it was a certain person, and another visitor confirmed it. In retrospect, I should have let them know that naming her wasn't a good thing and then deleted their comments from the thread. I didn't think of it, unfortunately, and I should have.

There was a later edit where, because she'd been outed, I asked people to be polite and NOT BOTHER HER.

This person kicked her dog, in public, in front of five witnesses. She's also possibly lying about her dog being a service-animal. I didn't have any contact info other than FA (I don't know her personally and have nothing to gain by pestering her), but, after her username was mentioned, I did ask if anyone knew her personally, so I could take it to the authorities. I highly doubt that a web-site username is something the Humane Society could use. I also doubt that anything I've done could legally be considered harassment since I saw her abusing her dog in public.

I left one shout on her page- one- linking her to my journal and suggesting that she give her side of the story. No trolling, no spam, no flames. Just a link and a polite suggestion. Then, I left a total of three comments on the journal she later put up: when I said that using physical force to "discipline" her dog was a bad idea, she laughed it off and gave me some song and dance about being alpha of the pack. Since that's just some regurgitated garbage from the the Dog Whisperer and "infotainment TV", I sent her some links from the pages of real wolf-dog breeders and trainers who ALL say "don't use physical force to correct your animal", figuring if she really believed that I didn't know what I was talking about (her accusation), then maybe she'd listen to the experts. She then deleted the journal. She's refusing to take any responsibility for her behaviour to her dog, and she's blowing up chaff to hide her own culpability.

Simply put, she's doing her best to cover her ass- she could care less that I wrote a journal about something I saw that outraged me. Henceforth, I will NOT use her FA handle here, and I will delete any comments that name her. Is that satisfactory?

Oh, on that note, I do have a question. Is there like, a strike policy for tempbans? For instance, when I was banned for 24 hours, would that count as 1 strike, and if I got banned 2 more times, then a permaban?
Or is it simply based on the offense, with shit like evading bans and major stuff as a permaban and stuff like simply talking trash punishable by infinite 24-hour bans?

LOL I think that question should have gone to him a note.

Derp. "IN a note..." Duhhh, I can't type. LOL

He probably has so many notes to sift through each day, i didn't think about that medium of contact, actually. I bet people even try to talk to them through trouble tickets

Yeah, I figured that. This site really is too effing huge to manage with just a smallish team of folks. O___o

Actually, he stepped down for personal reasons. And I remember the journal he announced it on got bombarded with hate messages. I honestly felt sorry for him.

Ooooh I see :O

Ouch, that's gotta hurt. I have sympathy for him, too, after seeing that.

I actually don't have a beef with the admins on this one. The person was named in the comments thread of the journal, and that was a problem, both for them and the rules of this site. I should have deleted those comments. But, I'm a weirdie in that I don't like hiding anything, period, even stuff that could make me look bad...

Mhmm... If it were me, I'd have reported it to the proper authorities right away.

You don't seem to understand the situation: I want to report this person, but I cannot report anything if all I have to go on is a pseudonym and a vague description. They rightly ignore it. I don't know the person well, and I don't l know their real name, which I'd need to make any kind of valid report, since she doesn't live in the area and I wasn't about to try keeping her there to wait for uniforms to show up. Not practical, sorry. But, yeah, I'm with you- if I could have, I would have.

Ah, well, that is quite a conundrum, yes...

If you had her email address, it would be a very simple matter to be able to pinpoint not only her name, but even her address and phone number. I guess i retained a bit too much of these techniques from my time on 4chan, in 2008 and such.

Oh, believe me, I'm working on it, but I can't actually say what I'm doing, or what info I've actually gotten, since this is going to the relevant authorities. Dammit, I just wanted this person to grow up and see some fucking sense, not butt-cover, obfuscate and bullshit their way out of facing what they did!

honestly hun it's fairly easy to dox someone just based on their username.

I've been looking into someone from online recently, having just their online handle to go on, and I currently have everything about them save for their address and phone number, which I'm also fairly close to getting.

I know- but try to dox someone who doesn't seem to have much of an online presence, who changes accounts a lot, and then doesn't really maintain them much. We did find some things, but I can't say what.

Ah, gotcha

*whistles* Do-dee-do...

What was the entry about?

I saw a woman kick her dog in public (lightly- she didn't hurt him, but it was still wrong), in front of five witnesses after a furmeet. It could have been a local who lived in the neighbourhood. I'd left the journal deliberately vague, except for time and place. A visitor to the journal commented, asking if it was a certain person, another visitor confirmed it. In retrospect, I perhaps should have let the commentors know that her name shouldn't have been mentioned and then deleted their comments with the name in it, but I didn't think of it.

Which journal was it?

Look up about three comments. It's the one about kicking the dog.

ah, thanks

Maybe the woman complained because, in the comments at least, her dog (and thus, revealing her) was named. So, FA admin may of not found your entry the problem but the comments were because that was where thsi woman's name was outed. In other words, had you hidden the comments that mentioned the dog owner, its possible that FA wouldnt of taken issue when the journal was brought to their attention.

Well, I can hope that is the case. Did FA send you a note about the deletion? I would think they would so that they can ensure that you are aware of the infraction and not repeat it.

Read  yak's comment. He thinks it was a "call-out".

But yeah, I should have removed any comment that mentioned her or her dog by name. Darnit. *grumps*

In this case, the comments likely got you in trouble, which isnt you but the person who asked "are you talking about ---person's name here---" Usually on dA when there is a journal like this, they simply delete/hide the comment and send a courtesy note to the journal author to let them know.

FA has been raping people's galleries as it is, for something not quite on the same lines as this entry. Some people have a free pass and others do not. There is no sense in determining the why of it. FA usually tries to moderate things that will incite drama but often in an inconsistent manner, which IMHO creates more drama. Best you can do is hide any comments which name names and send the person who commented a note to explain that you had to hide it.

Yup. Exactly what I plan on doing- anyone stupid enough to name this person gets their comment deleted.

But, yeah, I've had that feeling, too, that the way the admins-staff deals with "Drama" is rather inconsistent. My guess is, that because it's a group of people who all might have differing views on what is a "good thing for the site", they don't necessarily confer with each other (nor are always able to), and the sheer size of this place (nearly 100,000 users, if I recall rightly), it all ends up being really hard to have blanket-consistency across the board. They just can't keep up with everything - it would make them go insane if they tried. Heck, I'm an admin on a site that's less than a tenth of this size, and I can't always keep up, either.

yeah. There is that. I have other info I could relay to you but, with that in mind, discussing it here would not be appropriate.

Email? It's on my front page with the Paypal info.

I'm very sorry that this happened and nothing could be solved. *holds you in your corner*

I think something can still be done, but my original intention was just to make this person stop their bullshit. *shrugs and cuddles up*

*cuddles and offers coco* so sorry

Thanks, sweetness.

People are just idiots. I've dealt with this crap before.

Some folks are, but I don't think it was the admins, in this case. They removed the journal because the person I was all snarly over was named in the comment-thread. I should have deleted those comments and didn't automatically think of it, since hiding stuff isn't my style. Oops.

Shit happens. We know you didn't delete the journal and that everything was said with ultimately benevolent intentions, plus you didn't do anything wrong yourself.. so it's all cool. Only thing I'm mildly upset about is that I never got to see whatever your last comment to me was.

Fug, and I don't think I have a screen-cap from that point, either. I don't remember what I'd said... Been pretty wrapped up in this and rather distracted.

Hee.. it's all cool Murrah.

'K, no worries.