rowe rowe rowe you-- ..nevermind

also, i dunno if i like the sound of that.. just sounds like another way for retailers to squeeze out every bit of life from their employees for as little as possible

Well I mean, it only is going on in their corporate offices-

ah ok

This isn't new, it's a revamping of piecework, which is still used in sweatshops worldwide.

Not really, iirc piecework is that you are paid per piece. In ROWE, your salary is static just like in a normal work environment, but you are not docked or praised based on how accurately you sit at your desk 8 specified hours x 5 days a week.

Not sure I like the idea. There are jobs out there where the purpose is to be there, not get stuff done. Help desks, for example. What if it's a slow day at the help desk? Would that mean that the staffers there wouldn't get paid as much as if it was a busy day, despite having the best people working at the help desk? And besides, even in production facilities, you have people who work faster and people who work slower. There may be people who are focused on quality, and not quantity. How are the results measured for payment?

I don't think it's that great of an idea.

Nah, ROWE isn't related to pay. Since everyone is paid on salary, the hours spent don't matter. Only that their responsibilities are taken care of appropriately. If it was implemented at a helpdesk, then it would be more a matter of that everyone is being taken care of, not the volume handled from one day to the next, most likely. Or if volume targets were set, then people would still hit a certain # of calls on busy days, and 100% of calls on slow days, and that still looks good. :)

I think this is a really bad idea. How would people with disabilities ever accomplish as much as much?

So making them work 8 solid hours at a desk improves their performance how?

they get PAID for their effort and time put into the work, and not only the product. Some people- like with dyslexia and such- simply can't read or write as fast as others. They CAN'T improve either, and with a program like this- it would jeopardize their job if they aren't working as well as others.
People with disabilities need to eat too you know.

Also, what if there simply was so customers in a store? Nobody would get paid. I also really hate going into stores and people are trying to sell me things.
If people were paid like this they would focus more on quantity of work they do, rather than quality. What if that's how doctors worked? Would you appreciate a doctor wanting to rush and get 50 patients looked at in a day instead of stopping and focusing on your problem instead of risking miss-diagnosing you? that's how it works at my hospital (because there are so many patients and not enough doctors mind you) and I can't tell you how many times I've heard them mess up. they almost killed my dad too -_-

It's not quantity-only, it's results only.

And who said anything about comparing one person to another?! Of course there are different expectations for different people! :P

It is not about whether you're accomplishing as much as the person next to you, it's whether you're accomplishing what your you-specific goals with the company are. @_@

yeah. But still, people with disabilities simply cannot accomplish as much. They would have to work harder to accomplish as much as the average person, and work harder for the same pay.

That is why businesses who hire them set lower expectations for them, for the same pay. It's only fair.

That still doesn't have anything to do with ROWE, which says that you can accomplish those lower expectations on your own recognizance, rather than being required to work a rigid work schedule or location.

i think it just makes it more complicated personally. If someone exceeds from others, it would be noticeable. They get raises, promoted... that's how it's supposed to work is it not?

Because generally, you are evaluated in a performance review based on the goals set for you, not those set for others.

You are missing the whole point of this.

A person on salary makes a set amount a week. The system Snapai is talking about works like this:

You get set tasks given to you, that you are expected to complete. You complete them on time, you get paid. You complete them a week behind scheduled you still get paid the same amount. The point this style of environment is trying to make is that if you have your work complete before the due date, then you are paid for your work, and you can just do whatever till the next assignment comes in.

Disability would have nothing to do with it. Whoever was hiring the disabled person would surely have enough knowledge in their head to place them in a job where the person could thrive. Making someone with dyslexia be a copywriter for instance, would not be a wise decision on the hiring managers part, but hey! maybe this person is a really good graphic designer! Stick them in that job!

You wouldn't stick a person with a bum leg in a standing position all day.

None of that has anything to do with the system that is ng talked about becuase that system would take place after the hiring, where all adjustments and pre-knowledge for Disability comes in.

It's an unbroken pay schedule that allows for freedom when tasks are complete, and it allows Employees to use their time to figure out ways to better the company (Google uses this method)

That's the long and the short of it.

I assume the doubtful voices come from the stance that this concept can be used wildly to make the workers better runners. personally I simply assume ROWE will be used for bad things because I trust nobody to have the right character to -really- trust. I just havent seen it. most characters are not that far, most dont have peaceful integrity, might be a fittign wording. I hear a whisper that ROWE and relateds is a "very-high-up" way of thinking; for people with (relatively) intense self organizational knowledge, which Im sure partly depends on professional training, which the majority doesnt and will (!) not get. hence not relevant to "folks". which makes the book form (not entirely of course, but partly) ironic.
(at best, as I said. i.e. you could easily force someone to work 18 hours a day for mere production without even ordering it, just play with the statistics that lead to the "fair" work assignments, I smell horror =p)

first off, Ill have to watch a documentation about it or two to see the string pullers in action, to see if they do what they say; Ive recently read "the power of nice" (with said higher up air about it, sorry for beeing so foggy) and it read like "be friendly to get better results but the cool thing is you dont have to do it for the results, and here is how many results this brings you [...] so here is to results!"
so even after the docu and other evaluations of ROWE and relateds, itll probably remain theoretical for me.

maybe ROWE stuff is a SLIGHT help to squueeeze selforganizational knowledge into peoples minds tho, but thatll be a gradual process all for itself.

As opposed to a WADE environment which would be: Working After Drinking Extensively ^^

Let me know when a company that actually uses this and I'll apply ;v

Best Buy corporate, in Minnesota.
Also, http://gorowe.com/know-rowe/rowe-ap.....ved-companies/

Also as I understand it, certain offices of my current company (not the office I'm at) operate in this manner, though I don't think they've actually gone through and codified it as ROWE.

Heh, seems this has turned into a somewhat controversial topic?

Anyways, so let's say someone gets their tasks done for the week on... the first day. So they can now go spend the rest of the week doing whatever they want?

Pinkuh had mentioned they could find better ways to build up the company. Well... would they have any incentive to do so? If I was done with my job for the week quick enough then why would I want to waste my time working more if the company wasn't going to pay me to do it?

Granted, I think I'm only getting part of the logic here.

Well, "assigned tasks" is kinda' a silly way of looking at salary work....when most people are assigned responsibilities like "deal with our outside vendors" or "oversee department X" or "find ways to market our company better" - big nebulous things that are neither tasks nor do they have a completion....the company pays you to work on them as your job.


Give ya an example. My job responsibilities aren't "complete 20 assets by next wednesday" (though sometimes I do get requests for that), it's "produce supplemental artwork to assist the marketing and game teams." ....so what's important is that I spend my time making art, or finding art to make, and through that making a contribution to the wellbeing of the company, not simply chugging through a tasklist. And ultimately, my performance is based not on how many pieces I create, but whether I'm fulfilling my responsibilities within reasonable expectation. That's why getting rid of measuring hours doesn't mean I work 80 hours. And why as long as I'm getting done what one could reasonably expect from an artist of my ability, the exact number of artworks doesn't matter.

Just go look through the Amazon preview of the book, or the authors' blog, it can explain that better than I can, I think.

If all you were at the job for was to do the least amount of work for the money, then yeah, goof off the rest of the week. Just don't expect any promotions, bonuses, raises, or even a job when the next downsizing occurs. In a manager's mind, your doing what your asked, but otherwise, your just taking up space, possibly distracting others from their work while you go on walkabout, sucking up bandwidth as you surf the web, and they may even start to think they can find someone better to replace you. Just about any manager can pretty quickly identify the slackers and spot the star players.

However, If you add value above and beyond what you're asked to do, then you can expect to get paid way more through bonuses, raises, and promotions! Plus, get recognition from management in the form of awards and perks. For instance, employee of the month with a reserved parking spot, or even better, when you ask for that awesome dual monitor setup, personal color printer, or special software so you can "do your job better", they won't even stop to think about approving it.

Unfortunately, the anti-good way this works is, if you work for an a-hole manager/company, you just get more work until you start failing. Then they blame you because you can't meet your goals... That's when it time to polish up the resume and look for someplace better to work!