*genetic engineer*

genetically modified foods is a very broad term. Selective breeding of plants counts as 'genetic modification'.
Ever eaten an almond? Didja get sick from it? No? You ate genetically modified food - wild growing almonds are deadly poisonous. The chemical that gives them their distinctive scent is cyanide.
Ever eat an apple? Live in the US? You're eating genetically modified food. All apple trees in the US (and many other places) are cross-pollinated only by other flowers from the same tree, meaning that every granny smith you eat is a clone of every other one. Every red delicious has the same genetics as every other red delicious.

The term used that has come to be used for this in genetically modified but yes, genetically engineered is probably a better wording. I my self engage in the manipulation of genes in my plants. I grow an organic vegetable garden every year and save over the seed of the plants that produce qualities that I like for planting the next year. Farmers have been doing this for centuries.

But what this video is specifically addressing are the seeds patented by large biotech firms. And the possible sickness that they could be causing with in our own population are chronic illnesses that are hard to track with out significant studies that the food companies refuse to allow to happen, things like the rise in heart disease, diabetes, cancer, infertility and infant mortality, autism and food allergies just to name a few.

well the thing is, genetically modifying plant species directly (or anything, for that matter) will always have unintended side effects. At least until we map out the entire plant genome and every single biochemical pathway that it utilizes, then simulate the insertion of the new gene fragment using supercomputers so that we can know the EXACT consequences in full.

However until that happy day, we can only test and test and retest like a bunch of slightly less compassionate GLADoS ripoffs, figuring out what kills us and what makes us stronger.

I will say though, that some of the proposed things are simply ridiculous. Diabeetus from genetically enhanced foods? Poppycock. Genes have very few functions, that are executed in infinitely varied ways. Genes either make protiens, regulate other genes, or regulate the chromosome as a whole (not quite, but let's keep it simple). Now these genes will NOT randomly insert themselves into the chromosomes of whatever eats the plant. That doesn't biology.
The WORST that can happen is the inserted gene acts as a promoter for another gene in the plant - normally shut off - that ends up making some kind of prion (misfolded protein that makes OTHER proteins misfold. Think mad cow disease). Those are the only harmful things I can think of that could be produced in this manner, and actually make it through your digestive system. And that won't happen. Know why? Because some genius already MADE corn cobs that puts holes in your brain, fed it to a rat, then said "Holy shit, this corn puts fucking holes in your brain! *toss into biohazard container* Oh well, on to batch #104."

...Food allergies might be a valid concern, because that has more to do with the plant than the person. If a strawberry flower produces more pollen than normal (for improved breeding purposes for farmers), then you may find yourself sneezing for the first time as you walk past your local strawberry plantation. It happens.

You did watch the video, right? Because seriously that thing is like an hour and a half long. It goes over several research and study results and it explains how the process that they use to insert the DNA causes massive collateral damage through out the structure and how these can effect developing and fully grown humans and I don't want to type the whole damn thing out. Many of these symptoms did in fact occur in lab mice through out several different studies in different countries.

And believe it or not, that batch corn that you thought the scientists threw out... yeah, Monsanto actually is growing that shit. And subsequent studies that show that the food is unsafe are often covered up and the scientists behind those studies have their funding pulled and are discredited and attacked, in one case even physically. Here's a- well, a preview for the story of one of those scientists: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADNE1B2Rl5Y

Did not watch it because tl;dr

...And if they're really doing things that improperly they ought to be fired on the spot. I mean what the fuck are they doing, using shotgun sequencing as an insertion technique? Reannealing the strands with crazy glue? cloning the samples with fucking reverse transcriptase? I mean come on!!

...Tho since you mention Monsanto, it makes a bit more sense. They're about as scientifically sound as Reagan with his 'suffocate monkeys to prove pot is bad' experiment. I learned about these bastards in SEVERAL bio courses in college - bioethics and biopharmaceutical regulation just to name a few. Apparently when people talk about giant unfeeling companies committing horrors in the name of a buck, Monsanto were the ones who started the fucking stereotype.
And unfortunately they have their grimy little hands squeezing the balls of nearly every farmer in the US and many other 1st world countries.

Allow me to clarify my previous posts by saying that that's how REAL scientists do their work. The people Monsanto hires don't count.

Yup, unfortunately you're right. And also unfortunately They own about 90% of the soy and corn crops in the USA, and it been shown that the pollen from these crops contaminate non-Monsanto crops to point beyond their control. One study even found the DNA of their slapped together grade school science project in corn in Mexico the was over 1000 miles away form any know registered GM growing field.

Also you can skip the first ten or so minutes and at least the last 20 to 30. It's the part actually going over the results of studies and case records that really educational and interesting.

ugh... I fucking hate Monsanto...
they actually put the kibosh on a new organic weed killer that was super effective and completely harmless to non-plant life, just because the developers wouldn't sell out to them. They sent the fucking company bankrupt.

Ugh. I really, really hope that the resent class action lawsuits against them really hit their pocket books and a make them think twice about what they do to make those bucks.

wait, class action suits?! <3 Where!!

There's the big one that I've known about for a while that's still on going as far as I know. It was filed march of last year by a number of organic seed companies (including the one I get my seeds from, Baker Creek which is also how I learned of it) organic trade associations, other companies and dozens of individual farmers. Here's the gist of it: http://rt.com/usa/news/organic-mons.....-lawsuit-seed/

Basically, they have put forward a list of four grounds for the suit and Monsanto has to disprove them all where as they only need to prove one for the suit to go through:

1) Monsanto's Patents are invalid
2) Even if they are, those patents are not being infringed
3) Those patents are not enforceable and...
4) Even id if all of the above may be the case Monsanto is not entitled to any remedy (since genetic material form their crops essentially contaminates those of organic growers and renders the product useless and unsellable)

The other one I just heard of recently is a town in West Virginia who have over the last 80 years had massive exposure to their agent orange product, Round Up from their manufacturing plant. http://www.naturalnews.com/034564_M.....n_lawsuit.html

Jesus fuck, that's awesome!!

...well, not for the ppl dealing with the agent orange, but... still
^.=.^ Here's hoping those bastards go down!

incidentally, do you ever livestream commissions? watching a friend's atm and it got me curious

I've thought about it but I've never streamed before.

really now?
I understand that you have to download some manner of software

this video should explain it in less time http://www.escapistmagazine.com/vid.....1-Feeding-Edge

Not quite. He's talking about responsible selective breeding and extensive scientific research, which is something I do personally (reffer to me reply to Eternal Undeath). The vid I posted is referring to the haphazardly spliced and slapped together creations of companies like Monsanto. Take a look and watch.

A man responsible for saving billions of lives did it with wheat. Genetically modified, high yielding wheat. In fact, the only reason the majority of the world population is alive today is because of genetic modification of food. That's not to say there isn't dangers, but you probably almost literally owe your life to it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Borlaug

Indeed, but Dr. Borlaug careful study, research, and development for a humanitarian cause is significantly different from what Monsanto and companies like them have done for profit. i know it's long but it's a very interesting watch so I would defiantely encourage watching the video for more information.

Profit. The horror. How dare a company expect to turn a profit after massive investment in scientific research and progress :O

Profit might be the wrong word here. What they do is more like racketeering.

Don't want genetically modified foods? Fine, don't eat them. Just don't tell the billions of people living in the 3rd World that they have to starve to death because you think it's ok to mix dog breeds, but wrong to mix plant breeds.

But it's not mixing plant breeds. It's taking the DNA of virus and bacteria, a completely different animal kingdom, introducing it in a haphazard manner hoping that the DNA chain will stick to plant cells with no ability to see what strands of DNA the foreign matter is attaching to or how it's attaching, cloning said cells and patenting and selling the result with flimsy lab testing to show that these plants are "safe" for human consumption.

And if you think it can help third world countries, well maybe it could if the process was done better, safer and the product not patented by giant for profit companies. I think it could too. I love actual science and I think our understanding of genetics can unlock doors that we've never dreamed of.

But with things as they stand, well, why don't you ask the hundreds of towns folk who had severe allergic reactions to the cotton they picked or the wind born pollen of GMO corn, and the many farmers who lost all of their livestock after they grazed on the left over plants of said same cotton once it had been harvested? Or ask the 125,000... yes one hundred and twenty five thousand farmers that committed suicide in India because Monsanto had convinced them through aggressive marketing campaigns to take out loans they could not afford to purchase their gene patented seeds, promising great returns in profit that ultimately failed.

There is a way to help but that isn't it.

It isn't a haphazard manner. Things like that are heavily regulated, and also heavily scrutinized within the scientific community, with every experiment and idea coming under severe peer review. Also, the strands of DNA idea comes from them testing to see what separate strands of DNA do. They are not used for human consumption, it is purely a testing apparatus, like the luminescence jellyfish DNA story that is oft cited. That was purely done as research, nothing more. What you are asking is to restrict research taht will have no chance of harming people.

And the product had better be patented by for-profit companies, or else it will never be given out in a rational, logical manner, or in a timely fashion. Look at what happened in Southern Africa, millions died in famines because the UN, and their governments, decided not to trust genetically altered food.

Also, finally, you can't blame a single company and duly damn the entire institution. Genetically altered crops are the thing of the future, and if you restrict innovation and discovery, MILLIONS and even BILLIONS of people will die. That isn't a guess, that isn't hype. If there is no advancement in crop yields, advancements that can ONLY come from genetic enginneers, famines will CONTINUE to happen. There are no if's, and's, or but's about it.

Please. I know it's a long vid. But you can skip the first 10 to 15 minutes and last 20 to 30. The things that are shown on there are also not guesses, and not hype either. It reviews studies and case files that are not theoretical but actually documentation of harmful side effects caused by the GM foods that are currently on our market. Specifically the patented gene plants that are a product of Monsanto: Corn, Soy, Canola and Cotton, of which they own a large portion of what's being produced in America and around the world. Like ED said, the people at Monsanto aren't real scientists, their highly paid corporate hacks. And if you think the industry is that heavily regulated and monitored as to protect you, I'm sorry to say but you're quite naive. The FDA and Monsanto are the bestest of best buddies. Maybe you have it better if you're in Europe?

All I see in Monsanto is a bad company out of a field of many good. To attack all GM-crops because of one company is naïve, and a major reason I will never support the environmentalist movement. From what I can tell, Monsanto essentially works with the government, giving them big donations in exchange for lax restrictions, though they are not starting to filter into the judicial system, a much harder place to win. In general, it is simple crony capitalism. If the government wasn't backing them, they would have been gone long ago.

It's not an attack on GM crops. Like I said, when done properly, genetic engineering can be a wonderful benefit to us and the premise it's self has been in practice since humans started farming (or there abouts). The problem comes from how big of a percentage of the world crop that is owned and produced by Monsanto, most of it being this shoddy product in particular, and most of those able to and already have, spread the genetic material to other crops, causing that material to be produced in both responsibly GM'd crops and organic crops alike. This product is being turned into food for consumption by both people and animals and is in almost every commersial packaged product on the market in the United states today.
ED's comments made in jest are almost a check list of how they actually work. I'm not kidding.

"I mean what the fuck are they doing, using shotgun sequencing as an insertion technique? Reannealing the strands with crazy glue? cloning the samples with fucking reverse transcriptase? I mean come on!!"

Pretty much.

And their not just big, their THE BIGGEST and they use their money and power to strong arm and crush smaller independent companies and manipulate government regulation and policies.

I just did some more background research. Apparently this all dates back to 1930 (Monsanto didn't do crops until 1982). Specifically:

"Such ridiculous patents had no part in the whole history of humanity. As Boldrin and Levine write,

until the early 1970s animal and plant species innovation flourished without much in the way of protection from intellectual monopoly. Breeders would develop a new plant variety, the initial seeds of which were sold to farmers at relatively high prices. Farmers were then free to reproduce and resell such seeds on the market and compete with the initial breeders, without the latter bringing them to court.

In fact, some bozo tried to patent a species in 1889, but the patent commissioner rejected it as "unreasonable and impossible." Exactly. But this changed in stages. The Plant Patent Act of 1930 provided very narrow coverage, which was later extended in the 1950s. Then in 1970 the Plant Variety Protection Act extended such protection to plants that are sexually reproduced. Then between 1980 and 1987 patent protection was for the first time extended to the products of biotechnology. Then all hell broke loose as seeds and species and even genetic codes came to be monopolized by private parties holding government privileges.

The tragedy for defenders of the free market is that these monopolies have handed socialists the best case they've ever had to rail against capitalistic exploitation. After all, we are dealing with the staff of life, the very core of the human problem (how to feed ourselves), and this has hit the sweet spot of socialistic bias. We have something here that has always been universally available, a free good for all, that has been transformed by private lobbying into a scarce commodity that has led to countless billions in profits for a handful for monopolists like Monsanto and Dupont, who spend their billions lobbying to keep their privileges and fighting those who would dare trespass on their proprietary "ownership" of knowledge."

So thank the government. :)

Oh I do. Monsanto would not have come this far with out the government's eagerness to bend over and present as it were.

well I gave it a watch and now the more I know I had no Idea Liz I really didn't wow just wow

Seriously.