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VENT!
14 years ago
General
I'm venting, and when I vent, I ask people rhetorical questions... and usually throw in my two cents on the matter, too. Why am I venting? Well, check my previous post. I've already restarted the project, so I'm taking a quick break to interrogate the spectators.
My question today is this: What, to you, qualifies as offensive sexual behavior, and why? Too often we're confronted with issues like pedophilia, bestiality, rape, incest, and so on and we almost primordially and instantly reject these behaviors without asking ourselves why.
Personally, my issue on the perspective is this: Pedophilia, bestiality, and rape are deplorable, at least in my opinion, because they are clear cases where the recipient of the sexual act cannot or does not provide informed consent. They are either subjected to or tricked into sexual exploitation, and since sex is (supposedly) the most intimate of acts, it is among the highest violations of the individual and the concept of the individual.
If we as a culture are to believe that all people and creatures have an identity, and that these identities are hallowed ground, then we morally bankrupt ourselves when we engage in or endorse acts of sexual violation against the defenseless, voiceless, or powerless. Wresting away a person or an animal's basic dignity for the sake of indulgence and pleasure is thus no less a crime than wresting away a person or animal's life. This explanation may not fully represent the instinctive disgust I have for pedophilia, bestiality, and rape, but it does at least offer some philosophical grounds for how I feel on the issue.
Sexuality is always a touchy subject, and varied, and DEFINITELY intrinsic to the furry fandom. I'd like to hear how you all respond.
My question today is this: What, to you, qualifies as offensive sexual behavior, and why? Too often we're confronted with issues like pedophilia, bestiality, rape, incest, and so on and we almost primordially and instantly reject these behaviors without asking ourselves why.
Personally, my issue on the perspective is this: Pedophilia, bestiality, and rape are deplorable, at least in my opinion, because they are clear cases where the recipient of the sexual act cannot or does not provide informed consent. They are either subjected to or tricked into sexual exploitation, and since sex is (supposedly) the most intimate of acts, it is among the highest violations of the individual and the concept of the individual.
If we as a culture are to believe that all people and creatures have an identity, and that these identities are hallowed ground, then we morally bankrupt ourselves when we engage in or endorse acts of sexual violation against the defenseless, voiceless, or powerless. Wresting away a person or an animal's basic dignity for the sake of indulgence and pleasure is thus no less a crime than wresting away a person or animal's life. This explanation may not fully represent the instinctive disgust I have for pedophilia, bestiality, and rape, but it does at least offer some philosophical grounds for how I feel on the issue.
Sexuality is always a touchy subject, and varied, and DEFINITELY intrinsic to the furry fandom. I'd like to hear how you all respond.
Any model social, biological, and cultural engaged to such topics will not result in any conclusive support.
On the other hand, there's plenty that have no problem marrying off prepubescent girls, or selling children of both genders into prostitution. In western soceity we tend to forget how little value human life or freedom has in other parts of the world.
My own personal views (completely ignoring the 'ick' factor) is that adults having sex with children or animals is wrong due to the difference in status. Even if you think an animal 'consents,' and it doesn't physically hurt it, you are the owner. You can get rid of the animal, have it destroyed, are completely responsible for food, shelter and medical care. The animal cannot leave, change owners at will, report you to the police, or even carry on a conversation. In a relationship between two adult humans, each (at least in theory) can walk away at any time, or get help if needed. The same applies with children. No matter how 'mature' you tell yourself the child is, it is still a dependant of others, does not have the financial or life skills to just walk away, and will always be subordinant.
Of course, for most people who indulge in that behavior, the very helplessness of children and animals is what attracts them in the first place. Some people can't handle a relationship with someone of equal social status. And after all, you can't take your adult human spouse to the pound to get rid of them.
Beastiality dehumanizes the human practitioner, making him/her a maniac that nobody can respect for the reason that A: Most human societies consider animals physically and spiritually unclean (a reason btw, for taboos against anal sex aka sodomy) to some extent B: It is clearly not natural to everyone, and for whatever biochemical reason (thank God) people are programmed to be interested in their own species, mostly with the opposite sex (which provides an evolutionary advantage).
Pedophilia follows along the same lines. The age when its appropriate for sex varies somewhat, but as already said, everybody agrees its wrong. Besides acting as a breach of trust, it also breaches the presumably sacred relationship of parents and children, and that it is their duty to raise them to eventually marry (by older time standards) and be normal sexual beings. Victims of pedophiles are messed up, pure and simple, and it represents a perversion of the childs mind just as the perpetrators mind is messed up, essentially stealing the child from the family, and a chance at a good, normal future. This is recognized by anyone with anything approaching a parental instinct, and culturally id'd as a monstrous crime appropriately.
Rape, sadly is something that has actually been fairly accepted until the past century. Just watch older James Bond films and you'll see my point. What we call rape today was actually accepted if the girl was intimidated into not making too much of a fuss. If the perpetrator was white, and of good standing, he could do a lot and not get into trouble, because cultures everywhere have pretty much stacked the odds against the woman from getting her voice heard. Its been the rise of feminism of late, that has actually led to a greater cultural revulsion against more than direct rape, but just flat out intimidation and bullying for sex.
I think literal pedophilia is wrong, but the legal-pedophilia rules concerning teenagers are a bit strict--especially when somebody who's fifteen or sixteen has feelings (sexual or otherwise) for an eighteen or nineteen-year old. I find it q bit sick that you could legally have sex with somebody ten times your age as soon as you're eighteen, or have sex with anybody between fifteen and eighteen before you're eighteen but that one number acts almost like a berlin wall for thousands of couples made up of teenagers no more than a few years apart.
When it comes to incest or bestiality, I must admit they sort of turn me on when I think about them. Incest isn't wrong in any way to me (unless it's rape), and although bestiality is probably the most controversial topic of all, I honestly believe animals besides humans can have feelings of love for other things that they can express through sex, and animals can give consent by not raising advances or by making advances of their own. Like with incest, it's wrong if it's rape because it's rape, but that's just...because it's rape.
Non-consentual sex will always be wrong regardless of whether the person receiving the action actively resists or just doesn't understand it.
Pedophelia however is not as cut and dry as we think it is.
The general age of consent set forth here in the US is between 14 - 16 with adulthood being acheiveed at 18. However, not all cultures follow this same rule of thumb.
Many cultures have their age of consent (AOC) set at 12. So you must ask yourself this...
... who set these rules and why?
In the US the Protestant, Christian, and Catholic churches would be the main influences on these age barriers. The age of 18 is set as adulthood and the AOC is set less than that to match current cultural, political, social, and religious norms for that particular region or state.
What no one will tell you though is that the earliest average age of children having consenual sex...
... is 10.
So what is the actual point of such a law. You can't really punish kids for doing what their bodies tell them to do. The law is (supposedly) there to PREVENT adults from taking the innocence of a child against their will. While this is fine and dandy, it actually CREATES a new problem...
The thrill of rebellion. Human beings are wired to try and flee from potentially harmful situations. However, many people actually enjoy the adrenaline rush they get from feeling fear. When the prospect of doing something that could not only let them feel pleasure from a sexual outlet, but also from and adrenaline filled deed of rebellion against the law itself comes along; some folks just let themselves indulge.
It is a concept that has been brought only in hushed negotiations before, that the Federal AOC be lowered to the age of 12. While many would say that only a pedophile would suggest such a thing, remember that the earliest average age of kids having CONSENUAL sex with EACH OTHER is only 10 years old. The ACTUAL reason for such a suggestion is an attempt to remove the thrill of rebellion, to remove the "taboo" if you will, so that pedophiles will
I am not for adults having sex with kids, but I do understand both sides of the issue. There are many cultures who have followed the 18 is an adult framework, but there are still MANY cultures who regularly let their 12 year old daughters get married to wealthy 35 year old men.
To answer such a question as you have posed, is NOT an easy task unfortunately.
... is it wrong for those two love each other?
Yes this is sick and twisted sounding; and in truth it pretty much is but; when two lesbian women fall in love, or two gay men fall in love, why do we not throw them in jail? It is against a perceived moral code that many uphold. Why is there not a law against it?
Why? Because it has been CULTURALLY accepted. Just like it is CULTURALLY accepted that the marrying age of a girl in many third and second world countries is either 12 or whennever the parents say it is. Of course in these same countries the age of adulthood is also anybodies guess.
The point I am making is neither for nor against. I am simply stating my observations. You say pedophelia is wrong; AND IT IS!!! But I must ask YOU...
... can you define it beyond the shadow of a doubt on where to draw the line?
Although, as you're keen to point out, various nations draw an artificial legal line between adulthood and childhood, I'm curious to see how courts of law treat cases of young couples guilty of statutory rape versus cases of sexual exploitation against young children. While there is a lot of publicity that highlights the injustice of putting adolescents on trial for having consentual, but illegal intercourse, I wonder just how often such cases actually make it to court or are meaningfully punished.
I might be mistaken. The publicity might be justified, the punishment out of sorts with the 'crime', but if law is an extension of a culture's broadest norms, then I don't foresee many juries or even judges pursuing the maximum punishment for borderline cases of statutory rape. There is plenty of ire and consequence, however, for cases involving very young children and much older adults, especially men. I believe the main reason for this ire stems from sensible social norms-- the idea that those without the capacity to give informed consent or truly understand what is going on should not be exploited.
Drawing an artificial line between 'adulthood' and 'childhood' is, of course, ridiculous. Yet, at the same time, it is necessary to satisfy and codify the needs of law, and by extension society.
A 15 year old girl and a 19 year old guy fall for each other. They are both of an intelligent age. They are both still technically teenagers. So what would be wrong with them getting married even? I know the inherit risks and the actual legally percieved wrongness of the situation, but if the love is legitimate, then what (other than the law of whatever country) should there be to stop them? Is it truly fair to make them wait 3 years? I know that in those three years they would most likely learn many things about each other (both desireable and undesireable) and it could actually be a GOOD thing to make them wait but...
... would it really be fair to PUNISH them for following their hearts? Kinda messed up to be honest. Necessary for most situations but, a hand of sensibility and properly tempered judgement would be necessary. A case by case basis would be best instead of just locking them up and throwing away the key.
No tolerance laws never work. Our school systems are proof of that. Ever heard of the second grader who they tried throwing in juvie for pointing a chicken finger at a classmate and saying bang?
No tolerance laws are bull sh**. They are just an opportunity for the justice system to be lazy and not have to do their jobs like they were intended to do.
... where on EARTH did you get your avie? WTF Bullet? LOL BULLET.
Hilarious. Looks like Ben Franklin chasing in bullet time.
.... And then there are the variables BEYOND that. For instance, a 27 year old man forcing himself on a 15 year old teenage girl is deplorable. Yet if said 15 year old girl has an illegal false ID, goes into a bar, is actively drinking, pursues the man, seduces HIM, lies about her age the entire time so he actually thinks she's 21, then goes home and reports him? Despite the man not being aware of it, the law treats him virtually identically to one who lured a naive girl into his apartment and forced himself upon her.
As far as bestiality goes, it's true an animal can't "give informed consent", but speaking as someone who's not only had pets all his life (until this apartment) but whose mother owned a horse farm as a kid? If an animal doesn't actually want you doing something, you will KNOW about it. Whether or not you pay attention to subtle clues like growling, hissing, biting, scratching, kicking, etc, well....