drug free yeah okay
14 years ago
excuse me while i rant a little here. as someone whose speech and (lack of) fashion patterns has got them labeled (incorrectly) for many years as a stoner, i have a bit of a bone to pick with something i've been seeing on FA.
i've noticed a kind of smarmy arrogance smeared all over the drug-free furs page. i don't think it's intentional, but it's there. that kind of "if you want to destroy your life fine with us ^_^_^_^^" feeling. and i sort of feel like i ought to say something about it.
do you drink coffee? you do drugs.
do you drink alcohol? you do drugs.
do you drink tea? energy drinks? also drugs.
hey, ever take a painkiller? high-ho-drugsyo.
need ADHD meds? anti depression meds? seriously.
someone out there is going to argue that caffiene/energy drinks aren't like "real" drugs. i'm here to tell you that's bullshit. caffiene is crazy addictive. it stomps all over your liver and your guts. if you take enough of it, you will hallucinate. i have hallucinated due to caffiene. if you take too much of it, you can OD and possibly die. my squeaky clean christian grad student buddy OD'd on caffiene and needed to be hospitalised.
is it about getting a high? is that what it is? drugs that make you high are bad? well, when i was in school overseas in japan i was given a medical cocktail that i had to take every day to fix a sore throat that left me positively loopy. does that make me a bad person? are people who lean towards nyquil when they get minor sicky symptoms bad?
trying to take a moral high ground about drugs is such a god damn slippery slope. everything is such a sloppy grey area, where the laws of individual states and countries don't even agree on what's "bad" and what isn't. unless you're 100% hardcore straight edge, you really can't even attempt to take a holier-than-thou stance. there's so many moral potholes and quandries, how can you even begin to justify to yourself the thought of "well i'm superior to ____ because *i* don't do drugs, and *they* do." do you know their individual situation? their history? do you know they're not PRESCRIBED the very drug you're smarming at them over? or, even if they're not prescribed, how do you know they didn't have a medical reason for it regardless? federal laws may say one thing and local laws say another. or someone may get an out of state prescription. sometimes these drugs are the only thing between people starving after chemo and being able to eat a normal lunch. acting like a condascending jerk to them because of their medical needs? not cool.
why do i feel like i can mouth off about this? i tried to go 100% hardcore straightedge for a year. i cut out caffiene, booze, tylonal, everything. and you know where it got me? in the ER with a 106f fever on a saline drip with a morphine additive. it's not easy. it's actually pretty goddamn dangerous.
really the only sane stance to take on it is this:
as long as what you're doing doesn't hurt the people around you emotionally or physically, who cares what you do.
and really, smarming all over other people? isn't winning anyone over to your side.
i mean just by virtue of their general civility, i'd much rather hang out with people from the pro-cannabis furs group than the drugs free furs. and i don't think that's the ultimate goal the drugs free furs were going for. :\
i'm not trying to decry being drug free. many people are, and they're really very cool and nice folks. i'm not trying to decry drug use either. many people use drugs who are also very cool and nice folks. but what i AM trying to decry is that people willfully ally themselves under a banner whose mouthpiece is NOT a cool or nice person and really is just looking for a reason to kick around folks who make different life choices than they do.
so just you know. think twice before putting a banner on your page that leads back to a bunch of nasty jerkwads talking about how great they are and how the "drugged lifestyle" is full of "haters."
also you know maybe. talk to a few people who actually do drugs before you formulate stereotypical opinions. i'm not saying talk to them about drugs (though it may shock you to learn they're not going to PRESSURE YOUUUUU into trying them too) but just talk to them like you would any other normal person. you know. before you judge them.
tl;dr straightedge furries write some pretty hateful stuff on their "horray for us!" page.
i've noticed a kind of smarmy arrogance smeared all over the drug-free furs page. i don't think it's intentional, but it's there. that kind of "if you want to destroy your life fine with us ^_^_^_^^" feeling. and i sort of feel like i ought to say something about it.
do you drink coffee? you do drugs.
do you drink alcohol? you do drugs.
do you drink tea? energy drinks? also drugs.
hey, ever take a painkiller? high-ho-drugsyo.
need ADHD meds? anti depression meds? seriously.
someone out there is going to argue that caffiene/energy drinks aren't like "real" drugs. i'm here to tell you that's bullshit. caffiene is crazy addictive. it stomps all over your liver and your guts. if you take enough of it, you will hallucinate. i have hallucinated due to caffiene. if you take too much of it, you can OD and possibly die. my squeaky clean christian grad student buddy OD'd on caffiene and needed to be hospitalised.
is it about getting a high? is that what it is? drugs that make you high are bad? well, when i was in school overseas in japan i was given a medical cocktail that i had to take every day to fix a sore throat that left me positively loopy. does that make me a bad person? are people who lean towards nyquil when they get minor sicky symptoms bad?
trying to take a moral high ground about drugs is such a god damn slippery slope. everything is such a sloppy grey area, where the laws of individual states and countries don't even agree on what's "bad" and what isn't. unless you're 100% hardcore straight edge, you really can't even attempt to take a holier-than-thou stance. there's so many moral potholes and quandries, how can you even begin to justify to yourself the thought of "well i'm superior to ____ because *i* don't do drugs, and *they* do." do you know their individual situation? their history? do you know they're not PRESCRIBED the very drug you're smarming at them over? or, even if they're not prescribed, how do you know they didn't have a medical reason for it regardless? federal laws may say one thing and local laws say another. or someone may get an out of state prescription. sometimes these drugs are the only thing between people starving after chemo and being able to eat a normal lunch. acting like a condascending jerk to them because of their medical needs? not cool.
why do i feel like i can mouth off about this? i tried to go 100% hardcore straightedge for a year. i cut out caffiene, booze, tylonal, everything. and you know where it got me? in the ER with a 106f fever on a saline drip with a morphine additive. it's not easy. it's actually pretty goddamn dangerous.
really the only sane stance to take on it is this:
as long as what you're doing doesn't hurt the people around you emotionally or physically, who cares what you do.
and really, smarming all over other people? isn't winning anyone over to your side.
i mean just by virtue of their general civility, i'd much rather hang out with people from the pro-cannabis furs group than the drugs free furs. and i don't think that's the ultimate goal the drugs free furs were going for. :\
i'm not trying to decry being drug free. many people are, and they're really very cool and nice folks. i'm not trying to decry drug use either. many people use drugs who are also very cool and nice folks. but what i AM trying to decry is that people willfully ally themselves under a banner whose mouthpiece is NOT a cool or nice person and really is just looking for a reason to kick around folks who make different life choices than they do.
so just you know. think twice before putting a banner on your page that leads back to a bunch of nasty jerkwads talking about how great they are and how the "drugged lifestyle" is full of "haters."
also you know maybe. talk to a few people who actually do drugs before you formulate stereotypical opinions. i'm not saying talk to them about drugs (though it may shock you to learn they're not going to PRESSURE YOUUUUU into trying them too) but just talk to them like you would any other normal person. you know. before you judge them.
tl;dr straightedge furries write some pretty hateful stuff on their "horray for us!" page.
FA+

For instance remember lying about smoking pot in 10th grade simply because I needed a place to sit during lunch and the stoner table was the only option I had that year.
Everyone else in school either already knew I was squeaky clean, or simply assumed I smoked pot anyway, so it wasn't a big deal.
i mean shit maybe if all drug users were like stoney the cave-kid i could see where they're coming from. but if we're learning about drugs from 1990s government mandated PSAs, we're stupider than the kids in those 'toons.
the highschool i went to after public HS was chock-full of stoners and i learned really fast that they were just normal friendly dudes and ladies. they never pressured me or my friends. they were never mean to us. we'd even go out on walks with them when they went to smoke or something. we were just as upset as the stoners when one of them got expelled for posession, too. they worked just as hard (or not as hard) on their projects for school as the rest of us, and if there was a group project they were typically MORE invested in teamwork than anyone else. :\
BUT H YOU WEAR SUNGLASSES ALL THE TIME ITS OBVIOUSLY TO HIDE YOUR BLOODSHOT EYES. AND WHAT WITH THE DREADLOCKS. I KNOW WHATS UP WITH YOU
you like dreadlocks and need to see in certain colour spectrums for optimum concentration.
LIFEBLOOD OF MY WORKFORCE GLUG GLUG GLUG GLUG
this is because you are one of the cool A+ nice people i mentioned.
i went to see The Musical Box play at one point and between the synth, the lights, and the lead singer flailing around in costume on stage i can pretty safely say it got me feeling p high.
comparing peoples' choices of drugs/nodrugs to premarital sex or interracial marriage or even choices in religion is a perfect paralell. it's a choice that an individual makes in life. it's THEIR choice, not yours, and it shouldn't affect you. if you spend your entire life devoted to kicking around people who make a choice that you personally don't believe in? something's wrong there.
is it the high, or the fact that it's illegal? if it were made legal, do they no longer have issues with it? so does that mean if you're in amsterdam and smoke a big ol doobie you're still drug free cause it's not illegal there?
if it's the high, why don't they take issue with people who do things to trigger their own endorphine/dopeamine to release?
ITS JUST SUCH A DOUBLE STANDARD AAAAAUGH
*sings* It's okay to not like things. It's okay, but don't be a dick about it. It's okay to not like things, don't be a dick about the things you don't like. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0la5DBtOVNI
I'm loosely drug-free, but not hardcore, I use nyquil and I used to drink. Never have gotten into caffiene. I think a lot of drug users are kind of morons, (and the rabidly pro-cannabis types are very irritating) but it's their business, not mine what they put into their bodies.
you've made my day
I THINK A LOT OF TOTALLY SOBER PEOPLE ARE MORONS TOO 8D but there's nothing you can do about that except try to drop a little seed of brainings here and there and hope they germinate into full-fledged Non Idiocy.
Strangest thing, sometimes in order to get a certain result, you have to deal with side effects. So in this way, you really can ask whats the difference between a cup of joe and another drug that hypes you up.
I once drank so much coffee that I was exhausted and couldn't sleep, couldn't hear anything excepted my own heartbeat, triggered seizure that shut my brain down for a good chunk of the day. Hmmmmm...not unlike just simply having one of my seizure, except with that certain awareness added in.
You have to be careful with caffeine.
And man I fucking hate that. Like you know I'm pretty straight edge, but why brag about it? It's a personal choice. Someone offers you a blunt or a cup of beer and you just say 'no thank you'. It doesn't make you a BETTER person, it just means that you're abstaining from those things. I think the people that do brag about it are looking for praise to validate that by abstaining and perhaps, not having fun with the crowd, that they are morally superior. It's almost like a punishment complex! I'M BETTER FOR DENYING MYSELF THINGS.
I mean I can't drink cause of meds and I can't bear to smoke due to watching someone I love die from smoking but it's my choice and it's not right for me to stomp all over someone else's choice because I dissagree with them.
instead of saying 'no thank you' it feels like these guys are the ones who would get out the soapbox and be like DRUGS WILL RUIN YOUR LIFE JUST SAY NO when whoever's offering is just trying to be nice.
i mean i know it can be awkward in a social situation where people are offering, but whatever. there's plenty of other awkard social situations, like if people all want to go to a store you don't like. or if all your buddies are talking about a show you're not a fan of. or if you go to a movie and some of your friends talk through it. feeling awkward in a social situation where drugs are present is no excuse for being a douche to people who like 'em.
The difference is that caffeine is only bad for you if you have particular preexisting conditions or if you abuse it and L-theanine has no proven health risks. Caffeine and L-theanine also have several possible and proven, significant health benefits.
Alcohol is not to bad for you in moderation (possibly even beneficial) but is certainly more dangerous than caffeine. Drugs you smoke are bad for you in any amount even if you don't consider the effects of the drugs themselves which may be harmful.
Now I'm not saying It's ok to act superior because you're "drug-free" but I can at least see where they are coming from.
neither did my friend who had to go to the hospital. in fact, what he was doing was a charity thing for his school. people donated money, he'd drink a cup of coffee. he drank so much coffee (thinking, as the school did, that it was harmless) that the toxicity level of the caffiene shut him down and he woke up in the ER on a saline drip with his stomach being pumped. caffiene IS as bad as other drugs.
as someone who had a legitimate problem quitting caffiene at one point, and was literally shoplifting caffiene pills for a fix, and wound up with a HEART CONDITION as a result, i really have to shoot your argument on that one down.
i don't see where their 'holier than thou, let's hate on everyone with a DRUGGED LIFESTYLE' attitude comes from or is even remotely justified :\ it just seems like yet another excuse to irrationally hate on people who make different lifestyle choices without even sufficently educating yourself about those choices.
i don't see a community for SHOE-FREE FURS hating all over people who wear shoes. i don't see the christian furs groups hating on people who aren't christian. shit, i don't even see the pro-cannabis furs hating on the drug-free furs. the drug free-fur community is run by a dickhead who likes to be a dick to anyone who even suggests that he's being the least bit unfair/uninformed. and that's not cool. promoting hatred based on stereotypes is not cool. promoting hatred PERIOD is not cool.
Their attitude isn't justified or rational I just meant that I can see why they might think the way they do although it's no better than feeling superior to someone because they drink diet soda or something else equally irrelevant.
meaning people can abuse it without realizing they're doing so, and with dire consequences :<
and yeah. it's like coke vs pepsi taken to a rediculous extent. star wars vs star trek. people generally lean one way or the other, but nobody is seriously hateful of one or the other. and if they are, they're usually either A) really ignorant or B) really self rightious for no good reason about stuff in general.
it's totally legal but still totally dangerous. argueably moreso than marijuana, because you CAN die from caffiene toxicity poisoning, but so far there's never been a reported fatality in human history from a THC overdose...
People probably have died to THC, under what is called behavioral toxicity. Which covers toxicins that don't directly kill you but make think it is a good idea to lick electrical outlets.
i don't think i've EVER met a stoner who thought it was a good idea to lick an electrical outlet. i do believe you've been misinformed :B
The LD50 of Caffeine is in the range of 200mg per kilo of body weight. The average cup of coffee is 100mg. Basically a cup per pound of body weight over a short period. LD50 is population statistic. Individuals can be much more resistant or sensitive, but most will be around the LD50.
By the way this not quoting some random article or website, this me the 5 year biochem major with special interest in toxicology taking.
Even biochemists have to cite their sources and provide evidence.
http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927475
http://www.ars.usda.gov/SP2UserFile.....89_231-239.pdf
All I'm saying is that notfun has listed actual evidence from viable sources while you've listed numbers from viable sources. However, no matter how viable, numbers can only go so far against actual occuring evidence. In other words, just because the chances of rolling a die and getting any given number is one-in-six, it doesn't mean you're going to get each number before you repeat, as the man who rolls snake-eyes five times in a row can attest. It's a metaphore, but simply keep that in mind when debating pedantics.
I don't want to argue and make you feel like you're wrong for not smoking--it'd only confrim the stoner stereotype. Just wanted to throw my two cents in about the facts you're throwing around.
and i just linked you to TEN stories where it happened.
There also, extenuating circumstance to most of those stories. They mostly involve energy drinks which cocktials of crap and athletics. Caffeine is vasoconstrictor and diuretic, both of which are terrible for you when you exsterting yourself. Though harmless or even beneficial at other times. Also, popular media is alarmist and jumps to conclusions and governments bane stuff all the time that is in reality harmless.
I am not saying Caffeine is safe. It's active dose to lethal dose ratio is very small making a fairly dangerous drug and if you asked me alcohol is worse the marijuana.
http://faculty.uscupstate.edu/labma.....es/3614%20-%20(-)-THC%20in%20Methanol.pdf
but just by the filename, it appears that test was THC mixed with wood grain alcohol :o and wood grain alcohol will kill you pretty good all by itself from what i recall so really how much of an influence did the THC actually have vs the wood alcohol? i wish i could actually see the report.
sorry for for typos, using my phone.
http://www.tocris.com/literature/2741_sds.pdf
i mean it tells me they WERE DOING the testing, but nothing about what they FOUND. which, considering this is the second link that doesn't have any information, is now REALLY hurting your argument cause it's starting to feel a lot like you're just reaching. again, not trying to be a jerk, just sayin'. if i were a professor who asked for a bibliography on a paper where you stated THC was lethal and you gave me this (a broken link and a safety sheet with no data), i'd have to fail you...
By the way what do you think I am arguing? I have no agenda here. There IS a lethal dose for THC this is a fact, there is also a lethal dose for water everything is toxic given a large enough dose.
those poor animals D: they injected a dog wtf who tests on dogs
but this means that a human would have to ...chug several gallons of THC concentrate to die? how does it compare to, say, alcohol? more or less toxic?
i'm just curious. so far it's far less toxic than caffiene, which is legal. which means for sure it's less toxic than alcohol, which is also legal. what about nicotine?
http://fscimage.fishersci.com/msds/89308.htm
http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9926222
http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9923296
http://www.wlky.com/r/29447252/detail.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art.....ng-10-day.html
http://www.commercialfreechildhood......ergydrinks.htm
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art.....-Red-Bull.html
http://www.energyfiend.com/a-real-l.....th-by-caffeine
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2617841
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Sleep/.....5#.TyMS-_6qmSo
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art.....ed-father.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a.....rgy-drink.html
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/5753.php
those are all DIFFERENT news stories, just fyi. and that was after about five minutes on google. i'm sure there's hundreds more, if i spent more time at it.
there's even deaths from caffiene linked on the energy drink wiki article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy.....ttempts_to_ban
also THC pills DO exist!
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009.....n5209380.shtml
and STILL nobody's OD'd on THC.
so yeah that argument is full of holes and taking on water. BAIL! BAIL!!!
I smoke, not good for me, but it keeps me from killing other people.
I drink occasionally, as in ONE beer or ONE shot of something.
I used to do other things but realized the futility of trying to make my life better temporarily.
Do I have a reformed prostitute attitude? No.
On smoking weed, most everyone I know that has for the long term ends up slightly stupid. (Sorry 420'ers)
On Cocaine, that's mother Natures way of telling you "You make too much money."
Oh, Meth (and what ever else they're calling it these days) you're stupid and deserve to die before you fuck up anyone else s lives around you.
And to all the sanctimonious pinheads that indulge in legalized drugs, piss off on your holier than thou attitudes.
Bunners.
End rant, now excuse me, I have on my front lawn I need to swear at.
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metham.....e#Military_use
Bunners
oh god that's even scarier THANKS NOW ILL HAVE NIGHTMARES OF TWEAKER NAZI SOLDIERS COMING FOR ME IN THE NIGHT TO DRAG ME THROUGH THE SNOW
And they had a total lock on the manufacture and distribution until the '80s.
Bunners
My understanding is that the Angels really didn't get involved in drug trafficking until the 1970's,
What NOBODY seemed to address to my satifaction, was WHY people ended up doing recreational drugs, that is, what inner motivation caused people to try and then continue drugs. This is beyond the usual environmental-sociological explanations for illegal drug us.
And given that the inner motivations are known and understood...WHY aren't these being addressed so that so that these people can satisfy those inner motivations without drugs?
Item: I gradually gave up maryjane because it become less and less enjoyable for me.
Item: I avoided taking anti-depressents for YEARS, because of the anti-drug propaganda and the seeming hypocrasy of using a prescribed controlled substance to alter mood.
Item: Maryjane is traditionally called the Gateway Drug. The Propaganda movies all sed so. How come alcohol is never mentioned?
Item: The popular news media is beginning to get the backbone to discuss what the real gateway drug is.
IMHO: The Gateway Drug is
SUGAR!I am totally serious about this.
i mean the sugar highs. every kid talks about them, every kid knows them. PARENTS talk about them. it's the entire POINT of halloween. wtffffff aaaaaaaaa
but i agree, the whole 'but why do they start?' was always what blew holes in the propaganda for me, too. i mean okay if you're in a horrible situation and it makes you feel less horrible sure. but what about the people you know who aren't in horrible situations? who weren't pressured into it? who don't have some skeezy cartoon character meeting them in back alleys to take over the world? there was a logic gap there miles wide and even as a kid i think i knew it.
"Oh when the baby gets fussy, just put a few tablespoons of Karo syrup in his bottle"
With all the crap I've been learning about Adult ADD, there's the notions that people with it tend to develop mood disorders, and that they tend to self-medicate with tobacco, caffeine, and recreational drugs.
The same could be possibly true for people with other undiagnosed disorders. So IMHO, this Blows The Moral Argument Out of The Fucking Water.
now
when it wears off?
i'm just worthless for an attention span.
like i have this great movie on in the background right now, it had me instantly sold. but i can't even stay focused long enough to watch it. my eyes get bored. i wander off. i open another tab or get up and walk off or whatever.
WIND ME UP TURN ME LOOSE I GOT MY JAVA LETS GO
http://books.google.com/books?id=Z_.....mp;amp;f=false
Scroll back up to the top and read the entire book. Quite informative.
Bunners
Simple. Peer pressure.
And the media.
If you've ever watched _Reefer Madness_ by the end of it, you'll understand how NOBODY could take the evils of smoking weed seriously.
My self? I could never understand the desire to make yourself stupid. I.e. getting drunk, smoking dope or taking barbiturates. That just made NO sense at all.
On the other hand, speed? Oh yeah, I have stuff to do, And I can do MORE of it. (Well until I crashed for 2-3 days.)
Hallucinagens? LSD, Peyote? Sorry, I'm fucked up enough already with how I think, I don't need to go any further over the edge.
My affinity towards speed? I was 45 before I was diagnosed with ADD. "Who knew?" But it certainly explained the chaotic nature of the previous 45 years.
But back to my original point, blame peer pressure "You ain't cool unless you're doing ..." and the media's love affair with drugs. Riders of the Purple Sage, to almost every rap song now glorifies dope in one form or another. (Got to love the whole attitude of "Don't let whitey oppress you, get all fucked up on drugs to stick it to him.")
And of course, there's one other rarely mentioned cause. The Justice Department. I'm sure they could have solved the problem back int he '60s. But, then they wouldn't get all the funding for the "War on Drugs" and well, you know well that turned into a black hole with everyone decrying "We need more police, weapons, technology etc..
Just like getting gang raped at the airports, yeah, that sure makes me feel secure.
Bunners
i'm glad at least now research is being done that isn't 'hey let's strap a bunch of college kids down and stuff synthetic hallucinogens down their throats and see what happens.'
1969 you were a scary year :< i am glad i did not live you
Your tax dollars at work.
Bunners
There's no shortage of things or people to fear/hate/waste money on.
Bunners
the second number highlights the characters' general ignorance of shakespeare, what's not to love!
2. Nor the one from the morgue.
3. And if you feel like you've lost control, tell me.
Beyond that I don't really care as long as they stay safe.
http://youtu.be/XMUzX3_BZIM
I LOVE YOU ALMOST AS MUCH AS I LOVE HEAVY