Let's have a journal about controversy: Pride and sexuality
14 years ago
General
Don't be shy let's cause a scene
So I was reading this journal here: http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/3165774/ and it's comments and I started thinking
Why is it such a big deal when a sexual identity; such as heterosexual tries to use the terminology of "straight pride"?
I don't really see how it can cause any harm to the gay/ace/pan/bi/what have you community in the least. In fact I see it empowering just as many people of the LGBTA....blah blah community find "insert sexual orientation here" Pride to be empowering.
Each sect has it's little flag, it's little symbol, so why is it a big deal when someone who is heterosexual tags "pride" at the end of their sexuality? Is it not okay for them to feel pride? Is it because of heternormativity?
Are people scared of the heteronormative taking the term "pride"?
I personally see no issue with it. People should be proud in what they are with what they are etcetera. It's no different to me in saying that you are Canadian and proud of American and proud, male, female, tall, short married or single what difference does it make? You can add pride to all of these but as soon as you take straight and add pride people get up in arms about it and the person is hence refered to as cissexist or erasing sexuality or what have you. It's a bit ridiculous.
Does it perhaps carry the same negative connotation as adding pride to the end of white? It seems to be the same kind of argument over someone having "black pride" and "white pride" neither of which are a bad thing to be proud of but one carries such a negative outlook that people tend to be touchy and have issues with someone who identifies as such, and can be considered racist, which isn't fair in the least if the person has done nothing to harm another person I don't really see the big deal over it other than the history.
Is this the issue? Is history preventing the use of the power word "pride" due to previous use?
Your thoughts?
FA+

maybe it's because others are so used to seeing straight people instead of people of other sexualities that it's become so detrimental to the meaning itself.
I don't see as much oppression anymore so i don't see why others shouldn't be able to take the term of pride back?
But I guess it also lumps in the same as to "why isn't there a straight pride parade" to a lesser extent
DON`T LET PEOPLE WHO SAY `UNTICKSEXUAL`OPRESS YOU
Nor do I particularily feel any sense of pride for my sexuality.
Its just sort of there and thats how it is to me. Just there, being a thing thats there.
I don't particularily hear much of sexuality around my area anyway, no one makes a big deal of it and I don't think they ever have.
If you want to take pride in who you are then let it be so, let nothing stop you, as long as others are respected for their pride as well.
I don`t give a shit about my orientation- it`s just who I am; I`m not proud of it nor am I against it; it`s just something that is that is a part of me.
I think like EKG said below as soon as you say something that could potentially start a riot around other groups it always starts a fight no matter what the issue is.
It`s like watching soccer
and cheering for the opposite team
In fact I actually can`t come up with an awesome response I agree so hard.
It all starts shit- it's a riot and it's immature like Mike said it's about /revenge/
I get my throat jumped down all the time for even remotely stating my status on sexuality- always because it's become such a touchy subject that people WANT to fight about it.
I remember once trying to give someone advice and I started with "In my experience, my girlfriend and I..." and got jumped on about it with "YOU JUST WANT TO CONTINUOUSLY SHOVE YOUR SEXUALITY IN OUR FACES BLAH BLAH BLAH" because that's the way my girlfriend acted; always looking for an excuse to mention her sexuality so people don't forget it.
And it's DUMB. Who cares what sexuality you are or what gender you identify as or whatever; it makes people fight you; it's like you are LOOKING for a fight
and it excludes others and makes people uncomfortable because they feel they HAVE TO IDENTIFY OMFG and it's a nightmare
agreed
agreed
And I just said 'No, it's not the opposite of racist, it is still the same, regardless of skin colour'
And thats just it, there's a brand now where it's only racist due to historical events. If a black person came up to me and started abusing me because of my skin colour, the community, the country, would not respond. They'd call it 'Bullying' or 'Abuse' and they're reluctant to label it 'Racist' just because of the history behind the word.
I completely agree with you, History is in effect stopping people or communities from using specific words.
I really think that it has a lot to do with history and the way those words were treated- it`s the same as ant other trigger word in it`s connotation such as... let`s use 'Faggot' which seems to be Vixie's favourite word
Here it's derogatory but otherplaces it means like... bundle of sticks or cigarette
but because it was used in such a drogatory sense it was eventualy placed in the space of bad words
and the same shit is happening to groups and it's almost infuriating.
OMG the can o worms.
a while back and i still bring it up i think we should have Self Pride Parades. where in the person in the parade can be proud of anything about themselves. regardless of what it is (though i personally would like to keep the hate out) White Pride and Straight Pride and Gay Pride and Trans Pride and Redhead pride and Furry pride and Otaku Pride and Nerd pride and Slut pride and Prude pride and all of it. So i posted about this. OMG the hate i got from fellow gay people. cause yeah i like the cock and have one. to me it is just my sexuality and if i was going to march in such a thing i would just hold up a sign that said Theadeaus Pride. which is me.
it killed me the illogical hatred i heard. like Everyday is Straight pride day. They have everything. it is fine to be straight. like that is all non gay people have going for them. like they cannot be complex and wonderful people in their own right who are proud they are straight and might want to stop feeling guilty about it considering how people react if you say you are straight and happy about it. it seems the whole of the LGBT+ community treats them like they have a disease or something and lets not even get into the back stabbing bullshit they have for each other. the shit i have seen when gay people have to put up with Trans or Bi people disgusts me. and in my old SCA camp the one year the lesbians built a fabric wall between them and the gay male part of the camp. it was not a high wall so it was not for privacy but to further subdivide.
and people wonder why the religious riech can do so much shit. they may not be huge in numbers but they have a solidarity that cannot be matched. meanwhile everyone on the side of freedom and acceptance are infighting so damn much they lose sight of everything and often knee jerk do shit just to spite some other group with which is does not identify well with or outright hates in as bigoted a way as the bigots we fight against.
Needless to say (but i am going to anyway) this has gotten me pretty much pushed to the fringe of everything having this inclusive real acceptance ideal. wherein everyone should be raised with a sense of pride in them being part of the endless kaleidoscope of awesomeness that is humanity when it is as its best. No one group is better. we are all just different. and different contrary to what they taught us in school is not bad.
so yeah i am all for straight pride and white pride and black pride and native pride and mutt and slut pride and dog owner pride and cat owner pride and fish keeper pride and pride in ones awesome hair or lack thereof. i cannot understand why we allow ourselves to be so divided. have we learned NOTHING from history.
First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak out because I was Protestant.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me
thats how they won. they divided us up and let our worst parts keep us from caring about others who were not us. and it is that way now. it makes me sad to be part of the LGBT family sometimes.
Now for serious:
" everyone on the side of freedom and acceptance are infighting so damn much they lose sight of everything and often knee jerk do shit just to spite some other group with which is does not identify well with or outright hates in as bigoted a way as the bigots we fight against."
Perfectly put and it's so true. It's bullshit because a lot of arguments I see from any community is "Because you're mean and oppressing us so we hate you" and pull the stupidest fucking stunts to prove their point that just piss people off more. And it's getting to the point where I just shake my head in disgust.
As EKG said as well once you start a group there will be people fighting and there will be controversy regardless
people look for reasons to fight and to start shit because that's what people do. They don't care. I think the best way I can describe how I see it is this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8MF6mCEnV8 it just doesn't matter to people because people are assholes- no matter what you do and no matter what for
and no one stops it
I'm trans and the gay community jumps down my throat because I find it easier to explain to someone that i'm a lesbian rather than having to explain that I hate the gender I am and would rather be male; because no one will listen and then the gay community gets up in arms because "WHOA SLOW YOUR SHIT THERE SONNY THAT'S NOT TRANS NOR IS THAT LESBIAN YOU STUPID FUCK. WE'LL FITE U." and then they make you pick a fucking sexuality. Which is a whole other can of worms to open (I like Females, I am attracted to females but I really like drag artists both male and female and am crushing on one right now in fact: she gave me a kiss on the cheek over the summer and I was so happy I almost died sdkjfhaskjlfdha but that's another story) because if you don't pick right here comes another wave of giant argument you can choke on
I get so pissed off at the Gay treatment of Trans people so fucking much.
Oddly my very bigoted dad had nothing but respect and sympathy for Trans people after watching a show on it where it was shown that it was not a choice for most of them and that it was basically wrong gender for the brain. since there are structural differences between men and women. My dad thought that they should be able to give a scan to kids who seem that they may be the wrong gender and fix that shit before they hit puberty so the changes were more profound and natural. since after puberty things go a little more slowly and difficult. yet he hated gays and other races (which is hilarious since doing the family tree i found that we are hardly all that racially pure unless you just put down human)
but he is gone now so i have less of a worry that he will kill me someday for being the gay.
but yeah people just need to get to the point that gender is something you only consider for health reasons Like needing tampons or jock itch powder and races and ethnicity and religions are just the spice of life and differences that make us more complete as a people.
before the advent of the internet that was basically how i thought. my brain is filled with so much conflicting crap now from all the PC bullshit and infighting that makes no sense to me. before all this i used to just look at a person and observe said person and then have the opinion that Zack was Zack and Jane was Jane and that was it. they were not defined by gender and oreintation or anything other than This is Jane Jane is a girl and like purple and math and hates spiders and stupid people. Zack is Male (identified) and likes sports and beer and playing angry birds and dislikes the colour yellow and is allergic to mustard.
it was not the details of the person but the person who made the definition in my head.
Philosopher David Ingram argues that "affirming 'black pride' is not equivalent to affirming 'white pride,' since the former—unlike the latter—is a defensive strategy aimed at rectifying a negative stereotype". By contrast, then, "affirmations of white pride—however thinly cloaked as affirmations of ethnic pride—serve to mask and perpetuate white privilege".
White pride is problematic as its been most often associated with bigots and racists. Straight pride in my book doesn't really make sense as who is ashamed to be straight?
The point isn't to say "look at us, we're different", it's to say "we're not afraid or ashamed to say what we are". These days it may be more acceptable to say you're black or you're gay, but at the times these movements started, it was a different matter. Even so, there are still areas where it's still not socially acceptable to declare such things.
Specific instances of racism/sexism/harrassment does not equal institutionalized discrimination.
Self celebration may be a part of the Pride movements, but the major driving force behind the beginning of the movements deals with civil rights and unity to fight for such things.
The problem with a straight pride group is, at best it just looks like you're missing the point, at worst you look like you're homophobic.
Also, being shamed for what you are is also different than instatutuonalized biases and discrimination that goes on.
it is very sad that people have forgotten why people began these crusades of pride in being some sort of minority which was to make it not a shameful thing and to take away some of the stigma and make us more mainstream and less frightening of an unknown.
someday i hope that we will all just look at each other as humans and get over it.
I use the "Heterosexual" tag here on FA because, honestly, I feel like Hetero is a minority in this community, and I don't know... I like to have pretty things on my page? XD
But in all seriousness:
I really, really, really dislike when the LGBT community goes BUT WE DESERVE THIS. WE'VE BEEN /OPPRESSED./
lolok and?
You're telling me I can't be proud of bei
OH I'M SORRY I DON'T GET EQUAL RIGHTS AS YOU (which is what is always screamed about-- equal rights.)
Personally, I feel proud to be a straight female because it seems it's so "in" these days to be OH MY GOD SEXUALLY DIFFERENT.
And I don't mean to be offensive to anyone who actually is another sexuality, that's cool-- you do you. When I say this I mean 13 year old hipster kids who think it's cool/okay to pretend they're sexually different to be 'edgy.'
But seriously I'm allowed to be proud of being straight. :T Anyone who says otherwise is a huge hypocrite-- unless they're not proud of anything haha.
I fucking hated it.
People can have pride in themselves- I don't give a shit you have pride? Go right ahead and have pride
I think some people take it a bit to far EVERY spectrum has those who like to shove it in your face it happens. It's bullshit.
And yeah, right? I have a gay friend who ALWAYS THINKS EVERYONE has a problem with him, even if they don't because OH MY GOD I'M GAY.
Like. Come on. No one said anything. Stop being a victim. ;A; Everyone he's surrounded by literally bends over backwards for him. I dare say he even became a self-entitled asshole because of all the asspatting people gave him to try and boost his confidence in himself. -_- These things can be so negative.
then he srated acting like EVERYTHING was an attack and now he's acting like a fucking princess and it drives me nuts. SOme people don't know he prefers male pronouns and call him she and he looses it backed up by hundreds of fans and it's dumb. I know the feeling you have there bro
I don't feel victimized because I'm gay- I get picked on for other shit- generally being picked on because of sexuality doesn't come up unless I mention it somewhere mistakenly then it becomes an issue- but not always and it happens. Some people are like that.
And right? I get picked on for being a fat, short, semi-hideous, nerdy white girl who's not blonde. ;A; I KNOW HOW IT IS TO BE PICKED ON.
I wish everyone would understand that everyone has problems, gay, black, or otherwise. :/ I'm not your enemy! I support gay rights! But let me be who I am, too!
Anyway. xD; Yeah.
on that topic I get upset on here how Thin is beauty but fat in fettishised
but that's an argument for another day :I
I'm proud to be a BBW though. Even though I really should get off my ass and work out. Haha.
But yeah, that's true. It kinda throws fat into the category other fetishes, like, oh, DICK FINGERING. :T hngh. Gross.
When did PROUD = Having to fight for something?
Since never, because that's not what pride is.
You can take pride in a lot of things. Your work, your school, your hobbies, your relationship with others.
It had nothing to do with a cause.
I think I said it on that person't journal though
His hair is all fallen out! Took this yesterday haha.
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums.....60642939_o.jpg
And here's another one of my rats with a GI Joe M4 strapped to his back. Because it's hilarious.
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums.....59450462_o.jpg
/SOOOO CUUUUUTE/
I have 7 rats. XD
Dorian is my travel buddy. He goes for walks with me when it's nice out.
Guenther is my sweet boy, and the most receptive to commands (the one with the M4)
Drama is my old man wrinklebuttfacebubububuu cute <3
Ichabod (Stity) was my first rat, and he's my "special" and "touched" boy. If you know what I mean. Sweet, but dumb as a rock.
Otis is a hand-off from my boyfriend. He has 4 other rats. He's neither here nor there. Not mean, but not loving either. Likes to pick fights.
Gremlin is my UBUBUBUBUBUBU WIDDLE BABBBBYY DESU. (The ones from the picture. He's still so tiny.)
Annnnndddd
Raticate. Raticate is a hulking monster rat. I mean he's fucking /massive/ and boy, is he mean. He's a bully to the others and hates me. He runs at the sight of me or if I say his name. He's named after the Pokemon, and my is it appropriate. Looks like a Raticate, mean like a Raticate.
:3c
I made my point. :I
\omg
Also :> I was wondering, d'you want to do a trade with meeeeeeeeeeee?
when I have more time
xD
I still have two trades being held for you
Its privilege-denying because they already live in a world that caters to straights/cis-folk and finds them the "norm", people aren't systematically discriminated against for being straight. The whole point of LGBTQ "pride" isn't to gloat but to show that it isn't as abnormal as society has said it is for decades. By showing there are more of us and we don't need to be ashamed and its not gross/weird/unusual it makes it easier to change it as being stigmatized against. By straight people taking and using "straight pride!" its mostly pointless and insulting. They aren't fighting for any straight rights, they don't need to use it. "Straight pride!" is also frequently used to make fun of or otherwise belittle the LGBTQ movement, so its intentions aren't clean cut when people use it either. Similarly just because some people reclaim racial slurs and use them in non-insulting ways doesn't make it okay for everyone to start casually using them and figure their intentions matter more over the oppression those words normally represent and have represented for years, or the privilege they have depending on their skin color and culture. This is why its privilege-denying, they already have those rights, and the term is typically used in ways to hurt the movement.
This shouldn't need to be stated but yeah, nobody is saying straights need to be ashamed or closet their sexuality either. But we live in a society where there's no need to be closeted about it to begin with. It is accepted and assumed you are straight, and butting in when someone is trying to show their lifestyle also is normal like that is belittling. The pride part isn't to gloat or shame straights/say our sexuality is better, its to empower different sexualities as also being normal and nothing to be ashamed of just like straights already get to experience.
Maybe I just don't look at having pride in the same way as some other people- in my honest opinion you don't need to be oppressed or fight in order to have pride in something
I was thinking about the KKK thing though- that was one of the points I made. It's a lot to do now with negative connotation.
And I agree :3
"It’s along the same lines of why “white pride” and such are inappropriate. Life already is “straight pride.” Straights dominate taught history, media exposure, the professional world, academia, just about everything. So it’s quite unnecessary. Queer pride is different, because queer folks are an erased demographic group. Queer people aren’t given information about their health, nor are they taught that they even exist. It’s like the only place they can be are effeminate cis men in hospitals, dying of AIDS, or maybe the rare portrayal of a trans person as some tragically comic monstrosity.
Straights and cisgender folks don’t have the same problem. Everywhere they look, there will be bountiful references to their existence and their issues, and there will always be many role models for them to look up to.
It’s also pretty insulting. They are comparing “straight pride” to “queer pride”, which actually exists and is necessary because of the overwhelming “straight pride” that is around. Straight cis-gender folks don’t go through anything that requires pride. "
One of my friends was meeting some of her pride group thing at there so we all met up with them. They asked everyone their orientation.
I said that I didn't exactly know or care and they proceded to question why the fuck I was at a gay pride festival if I had no orientation? What have you got to be proud for? I bet you are straight and just want to pretend to be gay to 'be different'.
Bearing in mind I was pretty young, I have never questioned my sexuality in my life up to that point and these 20 somethings just jumped down my throat for being at a pride festival because I wanted to.
They made out like I had to 'earn' a place at that festival. Like I needed to stil a couple of rainbows on my chest and scream GAY PRIDE.
THE MORAL OF THE STORY IS THAT
- Pride gives people the allusion of power over other people because they have something that they don't.
- You just are. Being proud of it doesn't come into the solution AT ALL
- TOLBIA CANNOT REALLY REMEMBER WHERE THIS WAS GOING.
- You can ignore this if you want because I don't even know why I cannot write today.
The problem that arises here is people from the former group see people from the latter group saying "straight pride" and then jump to the conclusion that they're claiming that there's any sort of reason to be shameful, or to not be prideful for straight people. They immediately perceive this as either mockery of the gay community, an attempt to outdo the gay community, or just an act of blameworthy ignorance. There are of course always the starkly contrasting beliefs the people who view gender and sexuality and issues like "gay pride" as a lighter, less serious thing; and then others, with close friends or family members killed or defaced because of those things.
I'm not saying this is something that constantly happens in this day and age, either, but when something like anti-gay violence happens to you or someone around you, it's understandable that one could come to see "gay pride" as an idea in an altered, weightier light- and therefore become touchy to its usage. For some, it means "you try to beat me down, but I'm still standing", and when they see someone saying "straight pride", all they can think is "no one's trying to beat you down! No one has ever beaten you down!"
In the case of that Airu guy who says there should be a straight pride group and that he'd like to be able to see the gender and orientation of another user; all I have to say is that FA is pretty much the worst hookup site there could be, and especially if your search criterion is "exclude bi or homosexual". People who are comfortable with sharing their gender/orientation on FA- and there's a lot of reasons not to be- do already. The hetero group would be kind of a straight person index. Which is totally fine! I just don't think it has much to do with straight pride, necessarily. The usage he claimed to seek from such a group is to "identify potential relationships", which is not what gay pride has anything to do with by most understanding of the term.
What IS the problem, anyway, with a bi person if they're the opposite gender and you're straight? I'm not saying this about Airu (I don't know him), but the knee-jerk reaction for me is to interpret that anyone who would disregard a person's potential as a partner due to their being only strictly gay or straight is polarizing in a confounding way. What exactly is the problem with a bi-person if you're straight and they're the opposite gender? People can choose to select their relationships however they want, but to me such divisiveness carries a passive-aggressive air of rejection (homo/heterophobia?) when my being bi would make a gay guy or a straight girl uninterested in me for that reason alone. I suppose this might seem tangential but I find it relevant in the context of that journal post, that is- espousing a prospective straight pride group for its utility to find other straight people to be in a relationship with.
I can understand the irritation gay people feel when others talk about their "straight pride", but I am also one of the group who chooses to not let my gender or sexuality define me as a person. I'd say that most broad usage of the term "straight pride" is rarely intended to be a taunt towards the gay community [or a jab at what a homophobe might consider to be their 'perceived oppression'], but just by people who think it means to be happy with who you are, in one of the senses homosexuals would use the term. I would ultimately agree, though, that pride is a broad term for many to regard as descriptive of such specific values, and it seems too easy to wring offense out of the people who view the term in different contexts. The whole situation would benefit from less imprecise language, if the term is indeed meant to be inclusively unique to a gay kind of pride, with different values and meanings than any other sort of pride.