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Muskets in Skyrim?
13 years ago
This issue has periodically popped up on the game's forums and message boards, with most TES heads shaking 'no' as they, somewhat justifiably, imagine Dovahkin being some dickhead running around medieval fantasy Sweden with an M4 carbine.
The thing is, as you may have guessed, I don't see what all the fuss is about regarding guns in a fantasy universe. Perhaps its their relative modernity, how the gun changed the way combat is conducted, and so on. Perhaps it's also that they don't have an apparent niche in a fantasy realm-- why use muzzle loaders when flinging a spell is just as viable?
I've already seen some efforts of modders to create muzzle-loaders and muskets for Skyrim, but only as standalone mods without real implementation by NPCs or any kind of integration into the lore of the Elder Scrolls setting.
So here's my idea- for anyone who's played the game and paid attention to the story, you know that there's this great big elephant in the room, something perhaps more disconcerting than even the reappearance of the dragons, and that's the Thalmor. You know, the oppressive high elf regime that has apparent designs on world domination, or at least the conquest of Tamriel and the subjugation of humans.
Less well known is the fact that the Thalmor and the Empire both fought each other to near destruction, and that Hammerfell, land of the Redguards, continued fighting the Thalmor until much later. The Redguards are a proud martial people with a decidedly Oriental bent to their apparel, weaponry, and military tradition not unlike the Moors and Ottomans.
So here's my little way of working firearms into Skyrim. In short, the Redguards needed a weapon to fight the battlemages and armored troops of the Thalmor, and since the Redguards are not keen on magic they'd be an ideal 'fit' for matchlock muskets and arquebuses, which would give a common soldier a real fighting chance against armored troops without requiring training in the arcane arts.
Since the Great War, both the Thalmor and their Imperial/Redguard rivals have been arming up and preparing for the next conflict, one that both sides have every intention of winning. It would be totally unsurprising if the Redguards began mass-producing musketry and that the Nords, who hate both magic and Thalmor almost as much as the Redguards, would want to get their hands on such a weapon.
Here are the problems, and it'd be interesting to hear what potential solutions people might have. Many are purely practical--
1. How would a gun work in game?
I suggest that muzzle-loading firearms have similar ballistics to archery, but far faster and heavier-hitting projectiles that ignore an opponent's armor rating. Unfortunately, the cost of this is that firing the gun even once gives you away to the enemy, denying you the stealth you might otherwise enjoy with a bow.
2. Where would a gun 'fit', and how would it offer advantages over in-game weaponry?
I suggest that guns are used tactically, possibly in support or against hard targets. Like bows, they should be both craftable and upgradable with smithing skills. Successful hits with firearms would train the marksman skill, and marksman skill traits would also apply to muskets.
3. How do you handle ammo?
This is something I'm not so sure about, since we commonly think of bullets as lead and there is no naturally occurring lead in the game. You may have to buy it from merchants or you may have to craft bullets from other materials, each with its own relative 'quality'. Perhaps ebony or orichalcum bullets would offer superior killing power over iron and steel bullets.
4. How would the AI handle the use of muskets?
This is perhaps the trickiest issue to tackle. It is easy to see how the player could exploit the advantages of a musket, but it stands to reason that random AIs should also be similarly armed, since they already use all of the game's other weapons. Existing archers in the game use vantage points and stand more or less still while firing at the player, which gives us a start, but would it be possible to also use the musket as an impromptu close combat weapon, not just nudging people with it but also clubbing them with it? That might give the AI a chance if the player does the obvious thing and close ranks with the musketeer.
5. Who would have muskets?
I suggest that muskets not be found on random lowly NPCs, since they'd most likely be considered 'new' weapons and therefore expensive. Perhaps some of the Imperial Guard, the city militias, high-level bandits, and even the Stormcloaks would have musketeers in the ranks. In the case of the latter, it sounds odd to have Nord traditionalists carrying modern weaponry, but when you think about it they're rebels who might not turn their noses up at a chance to blast a hole in an Imperial legionnaire.
6. What about that reloading?
Thankfully, this is a fantasy setting and not everything has to be completely realistic. It would be judicious to give muskets a lower rate of fire than bows, since they're more powerful, but I doubt many players would have the patience or the lifespan to wait even fifteen seconds while reloading while a bandit tries to carve directions to the nearest smelter into the player's skin with a broadsword. I'd say five to ten seconds would be about right, and reloading could be interrupted in case of close combat.
7. Would having muskets in the Elder Scrolls erase all joy from existence?
I shouldn't have to answer this question, but a lot of people out there behave as though an explosion carrying a ball through a tube somehow magically transforms fantasy into lame. The truth of the matter is that the very embodiment of the Elder Scrolls games has always been giving the player the freedom to choose. If muskets exist in the game, I agree that they shouldn't be so overpowered that they force the player to use them, but at the same time I don't see why they couldn't be implemented in a fun, thoughtful fashion that offers a new set of tricks, tactics, and counter-tactics.
8. Archers have quivers. What would musketeers have?
Well, this might not be a pressing question, but it would be a nice detail. I imagine that a cartridge pouch or bandolier would sit in for a quiver quite nicely, and imagine if they all had different aesthetics like the various arrows-- a Daedric cartridge bandolier, how would that look? Hopefully as badass as the armor...
The thing is, as you may have guessed, I don't see what all the fuss is about regarding guns in a fantasy universe. Perhaps its their relative modernity, how the gun changed the way combat is conducted, and so on. Perhaps it's also that they don't have an apparent niche in a fantasy realm-- why use muzzle loaders when flinging a spell is just as viable?
I've already seen some efforts of modders to create muzzle-loaders and muskets for Skyrim, but only as standalone mods without real implementation by NPCs or any kind of integration into the lore of the Elder Scrolls setting.
So here's my idea- for anyone who's played the game and paid attention to the story, you know that there's this great big elephant in the room, something perhaps more disconcerting than even the reappearance of the dragons, and that's the Thalmor. You know, the oppressive high elf regime that has apparent designs on world domination, or at least the conquest of Tamriel and the subjugation of humans.
Less well known is the fact that the Thalmor and the Empire both fought each other to near destruction, and that Hammerfell, land of the Redguards, continued fighting the Thalmor until much later. The Redguards are a proud martial people with a decidedly Oriental bent to their apparel, weaponry, and military tradition not unlike the Moors and Ottomans.
So here's my little way of working firearms into Skyrim. In short, the Redguards needed a weapon to fight the battlemages and armored troops of the Thalmor, and since the Redguards are not keen on magic they'd be an ideal 'fit' for matchlock muskets and arquebuses, which would give a common soldier a real fighting chance against armored troops without requiring training in the arcane arts.
Since the Great War, both the Thalmor and their Imperial/Redguard rivals have been arming up and preparing for the next conflict, one that both sides have every intention of winning. It would be totally unsurprising if the Redguards began mass-producing musketry and that the Nords, who hate both magic and Thalmor almost as much as the Redguards, would want to get their hands on such a weapon.
Here are the problems, and it'd be interesting to hear what potential solutions people might have. Many are purely practical--
1. How would a gun work in game?
I suggest that muzzle-loading firearms have similar ballistics to archery, but far faster and heavier-hitting projectiles that ignore an opponent's armor rating. Unfortunately, the cost of this is that firing the gun even once gives you away to the enemy, denying you the stealth you might otherwise enjoy with a bow.
2. Where would a gun 'fit', and how would it offer advantages over in-game weaponry?
I suggest that guns are used tactically, possibly in support or against hard targets. Like bows, they should be both craftable and upgradable with smithing skills. Successful hits with firearms would train the marksman skill, and marksman skill traits would also apply to muskets.
3. How do you handle ammo?
This is something I'm not so sure about, since we commonly think of bullets as lead and there is no naturally occurring lead in the game. You may have to buy it from merchants or you may have to craft bullets from other materials, each with its own relative 'quality'. Perhaps ebony or orichalcum bullets would offer superior killing power over iron and steel bullets.
4. How would the AI handle the use of muskets?
This is perhaps the trickiest issue to tackle. It is easy to see how the player could exploit the advantages of a musket, but it stands to reason that random AIs should also be similarly armed, since they already use all of the game's other weapons. Existing archers in the game use vantage points and stand more or less still while firing at the player, which gives us a start, but would it be possible to also use the musket as an impromptu close combat weapon, not just nudging people with it but also clubbing them with it? That might give the AI a chance if the player does the obvious thing and close ranks with the musketeer.
5. Who would have muskets?
I suggest that muskets not be found on random lowly NPCs, since they'd most likely be considered 'new' weapons and therefore expensive. Perhaps some of the Imperial Guard, the city militias, high-level bandits, and even the Stormcloaks would have musketeers in the ranks. In the case of the latter, it sounds odd to have Nord traditionalists carrying modern weaponry, but when you think about it they're rebels who might not turn their noses up at a chance to blast a hole in an Imperial legionnaire.
6. What about that reloading?
Thankfully, this is a fantasy setting and not everything has to be completely realistic. It would be judicious to give muskets a lower rate of fire than bows, since they're more powerful, but I doubt many players would have the patience or the lifespan to wait even fifteen seconds while reloading while a bandit tries to carve directions to the nearest smelter into the player's skin with a broadsword. I'd say five to ten seconds would be about right, and reloading could be interrupted in case of close combat.
7. Would having muskets in the Elder Scrolls erase all joy from existence?
I shouldn't have to answer this question, but a lot of people out there behave as though an explosion carrying a ball through a tube somehow magically transforms fantasy into lame. The truth of the matter is that the very embodiment of the Elder Scrolls games has always been giving the player the freedom to choose. If muskets exist in the game, I agree that they shouldn't be so overpowered that they force the player to use them, but at the same time I don't see why they couldn't be implemented in a fun, thoughtful fashion that offers a new set of tricks, tactics, and counter-tactics.
8. Archers have quivers. What would musketeers have?
Well, this might not be a pressing question, but it would be a nice detail. I imagine that a cartridge pouch or bandolier would sit in for a quiver quite nicely, and imagine if they all had different aesthetics like the various arrows-- a Daedric cartridge bandolier, how would that look? Hopefully as badass as the armor...
The biggest prob with old guns is faulty powder and weapon jams. This should also be implemented. High risk, high reward. :3
...spitball of scorn.
+1 to constitution.
GUHARHAGHAGFHSDFGASHDGAHSFASERHAHAHAHAHAHA!
*hits blood god in jugular*
instant death
(Gain 200 XP)
If guns were to exist in the Elder Scrolls universe, I would imagine them being introduced in much the same way that I've seen them brought about by modders, as a lost, rediscovered invention of the Dwemer. The Dwemer being a civilization of advanced technology with creations that are a successful merger of invention and magic, I would imagine that their "guns" would be much the same. Rather than having proper bullets, they would shoot spells instead.
So then, what would differentiate guns from the staves already in the game? Well for one, I could see the guns being loaded with an enchanted cartidge that could be fired continuously until the enchantment on the cartridge ran out. This would mean interchangeable spells on a single device, rather than having to carry a staff for each spell you would want to cast. The cartridges would be refilled via soul gem, or perhaps it would be the gun itself that held the soul gem charge, transferring the energy to the cartridge to cast the spell. This would keep it down to only one item to have to use your soul gems on rather than having to keep track of the charge on each of your cartridges.
So, how would guns not be overpowered then? Well, simple answer is they will be overpowered. But being a lost technology that is just being rediscovered, the weapon would naturally be extremely rare, along with any compatible cartridges for it. Sure, they could reverse engineer the technology, but that will take a long time of studying before they would have it right. Take a look at the state of Dwemer study in Skyrim as it currently is. They're still working out how their mechanical guardians work, and they've been known about and presumably studied since at least as far back as Morrowind's time period. So I guess the balance for this weapon would be that it would be extremely hard to find a working one, and even harder to find the "ammo" for it.
That's just my idea on the matter anyway. Personally, I'd just be happy to see crossbows make a comeback.