amen brother

Woot Woot!!

I've never been a fan of cub, rule 34, diaper, etc... anything that taints minors and/or infancy in a sexual manner. It's wrong as far as I'm concerned, and there are things in place in the FA rules that are meant to maintain problems dealing with minors. However I think that, because the characters- like Little Foot- are never given an actual age, then we can't honestly say they're a minor, and therefore shouldn't be entering in sexual practices. Although I think it's fairly clear that Little Foot wouldn't be "adult" were his actual age given and compared to the norms fo society. And I think because it runs as a "Rule 34" thing as opposed to "sex with a minor," that's why it's been permitted.
But I could be wrong.
I know I've seen TONS of other artists here on FA that have Rule 34 pornography all in their galleries with characters that you can assume are well belong the "legal age," but because we're not certain how old they really are... I'm not sure how it'd be handled.
I do love Gami's work, though, as far as his style and technique go. And just because he draws something I don't personally approve of a few times isn't enough for me to stop appreciating the work I do enjoy.
But to each their own!

Wow, I'm a typo queen. Excuse those. XD

I agree that Neko has a awesome art style, not denying that X3 Its just the act of looking at something you know if a underage child that I'm focusing on; also I dont understand how Rule 34 applies here... Compare the characters to their parents/grandparents, They are very easily Children/babys...

I do agree with you on some points though and I highly respect how you've approched me and talked to me about this, and if you wish to continue this, you are most certainly welcome. :)

It's sort of a double-edged sword being on FA, just because of a lot of the art that's focused here. Sorta' wish more filters were implemented towards specific genres of art.

If that was the case, I think there would be a lot more happier furs on here... I think one of the problems is that we have a lot of strong personalities... (Being Artists and all.) and they will clash based on beliefs..

I think some of the furs in his gallery do look a bit young. And some of his art references becoming of age ceremonies. but I also agree with Archery the Little foot and gang porn would fall into "Rule 34" I feel pitty for who ever get off on this sort of crap, but if its done well I actually enjoy looking at it because I watched that stuff as a kid and it makes me laugh.

Haha Yeah. :)

Its just that its offensive to me because Im a victim of molestation when I was young and so I have a firm stance against it because of that. Don't get me wrong, I don't actually hate the people that do it, I understand they have a mental illness and need help. Its the act itself that disgusts me..

Sorry if thats too much info man..

No its not and I actually respect you view point. I was also abused as a child from 7 to 13 Untill my grama yanked me out of the situation.

Yes cub porn is fucking sick, but in his and other people's defence, most don't even know the Land Before Time characters a children. Not everyone actually watched the twenty+ movies they've been in. Also, in the fifth movie they were concidered young adults and it's pretty apparent when Littlefoot stands next to his grandparents.

There are also only five pictures of them on his page. . .

Please don't accuse him of deliberately doing something he's not. I don't like Land Before Time porn myself, but if you really want to know the truth, ask him. My husband has personally met nek0gami and has found him to be a pretty cool guy. I'm sure if you discarded your hostility and questioned him directly he'd honestly tell he never meant to draw pornography of immature character.

Ummm, yeah... its apparent they are kids, and they aren't the only underage characters there...

I'm sure He's an okay person, I'm focusing on the act of jacking off and producing child pornography..

Not only is it WRONG, but there are rules on FA that prohibit this; It was clear that no characters underage can be posted on FA.


Also, I am very, very, very, very, veeeeeeerrrryyyyy glad that you are talking to me in a adult mannor.. anyone that can talk about this subject in a mature fashion in this fandom earns my respect. :)

I certainly won't argue with you about FA prohibiting "cub". I don't necessarily agree with that decision, but I also don't really complain since I don't want to see it either.

That said, how is this "child pornography" (a misrepresentation of the artwork, if you ask me) wrong if there aren't any actual children involved?

Because in the viewers mind they are fantasizing that they are real children and they are indulging a sickness, They are partaking in something that isn't healthy for anyone, also there are people on here that have been molested as a child, I am one of them adn when i see that stuff it brings up harmful memories of it happeneing to them.

I think your focusing on the wrong thing here though, Cub is against the rules; and thats, that.

I'm sorry, if there are other characters that are there that are represented as under age in their franchise then I must not recognize the characters. Though I still strongly feel that not every individual who draws those characters realizes they are under age. Take Hiccup from the movie How To Train Your Dragon. Most assume he's under age but in an interview the writer of the book series he's based off of actually stated that Hiccup was 'becoming an adult, so he'd be either eighteen or nineteen . . .

My primary concern is not that you should leave nek0gami alone but that there are other people who you should direct your fight against that are more obviously drawing cub porn. Including supered, tottling anthros.

I have to be mature about the situation as I, myself have had a rough past with child abuse of this nature and have my own child to protect. If I didn't, I'd probably be consumed by that blind, motherly rage.

That should be diapered, not supered. My phone likes to auto-correct me at the dumbest times.

I know, I reacted too soon and too emotionally

It happens to the best of us. It makes you a better person to admit it though.

Look until we stand up as a community and tell the admins to stop the favortisim and treat everyone fairly or stick to the threat of going elswhere nothing will change untill you force them to listen. They wont respond to emails and they wont respond to threats until action is taken. so report em to the authorities risk losing FA or as i said stop pissing and moaning organize a large group if members and boycott them untill they learn, nothing gets ppls attention like hurting the pocket book. . Make sure to contact every advertiser they use and let them know why your boycotting. It worked when Rush Limpbag called that girl a slut ( not taking sides on that i just pointing out what made him appologise )
Other wise this us just another rant by another fur an who hasnt seen that a million times.

Grrr phone glitches
****as Ive said in the past****

Whos to say Im not doing anything? :P

Im first telling people what I've found, whats happening and then I may or may not take action; People can't just cause change in 1 minute :) I literally jsut found this out and am thinking of which action to take. I was a part of  Cub_Protest before it was disbanded by the administration.

Ah so thats what happend to the protest group. I had heard there was something shady going on there. Im starting to suspect the admins of ... Well for now ill keep my suspicions to myself but birds of a feather if you will, please dont mind the avian pun.
Keep me posted on what you do decide to do. I dont have much pull around here but Im sure i can at least spread the word i there is something organized correctly.

One of my cloesest friends ran that group, She openly said at any chance she got in the group to tell people not to attack anyone and that if they did they would be kicked from the group, everyone complied and our stradegy was to only protest the artform not the people who viewed it.

The authorities? What law is being broken?

Ok, calm down dude. Everyone else here can talk in an adult fashion; you can too.

I am speaking to you in an adult fashion. Would you please answer my question?

Paypal, they siad they would not work with FA if there was cub porn because in there eyes it is considered child pornagraphy.

As far as I know, Paypal hasn't worked with FA for years anyways.

http://donations.furaffinity.net/ No mentions of Paypal there, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.

Shit, I must've got that info wrong, But still someone told neer they have to take it down. Bottom line.

Actually you weren't wrong in thinking that, they did used to use Paypal but Paypal got wind of some of the artwork they had here and decided to sever their relationship, FA lost a fair bit of money because of that

Was just listing options, dont forget depictions of what can be concidered children in sexual situations can and has gotten sites shut down be it actually pornographic or not. I remeber when they changed the tos and that was a supposed big deal.
Personally i dont care what someone draws IF no one is getting hurt by it. Being an artist truely i understand what this means. But because I dont approve of cub art in sexual situaltions i also believe deeply someone should be able to draw what they please as long again as no one is hurt by it. Just because I dont like the stigma that the uninformed lable the fandom with when it comes to this its this sort of art that has a tendancy to inspire those kind of thoughts in the narrowminded an biggotes looking for someone new to prosecute. I have heard it when at cons from ppl in the street while at the exact same time seeing the smile and wonder in a kids face when a fursuiter gives them a hug. I personally dont want this to get blownout of proportion. Just tired of the hypocracy. I have issue with the slant in treatment toward the popular artists. You cant ban on one hand and allow with the other without there being desention with in the community. Why should this one get away with it when others get nailed on for it. Thier account possibly Banned if they dont remove the images? If i remember right didnt they dio that to Wookie? i felt he was a much better artist though not as popular. If it makes the TOS apply to everyone fairly then ill join any boycott to make them inforce the rules fairly. If its just another crusade to persecute another artist for doing something that isnt hurting anyone then ill side with the artist. ~shudders~ even if it means i have to swallow my pride and support cub art.

Damn phone i need a new one
***but just because i dont approve****

Oh, I absolutely agree that the rules should be enforced for everybody. I'm in no way defending artists that ignore the rules.

Really, if people want to post cub art, there's Inkbunny. And Inkbunny has an EXCELLENT filtering system that means I don't have to see it anyways!

I stand with you, though. Artistic freedom is vitally important, as is freedom of speech and all that jazz.

I had this conversation with someone about this last time Cub got to be an issue with me, and It is a very very valid point!!

I am a bohemian at heart... But there are things that you CANNOT do... I am ALLLL for artistic freedom, and I know there are certain artists that do like 1 or 2 cub pics and they don't do it for the porn, but as a way of expressing a statement...

There is no clear cut awnser and the only way we can ALL discover what goes into this, is to talk about it like a bunch of adults with open minds.

Noxal, you are someone that I would want to talk with about serious subjects,

If its any consolation.. I am open to the fact that i could've acted a bit out of sensativity but my views on it remain strong. I don't go and seek this stuff out, I just found it on accident when I was trying to show my mate something on Nekogami's Gallery.

Emotional reactions are indeed quite strong. Fuck knows my Facebook friends/relatives are probably sick of hearing about LGBT politics by now. :P

I kindfully ignored the "Land before time art" but you are right. The rules should count for all FA Members, for the popular ones as much as for the common users.

THATs my point. :P

A pedophile is not necessarily a child molester.

I don't see the link between creating artificial "underage" artwork and being a child molester. If it helps pedos deal with their urges in ways that DON'T involve raping kids, isn't that a good thing? Or at least a less-bad thing?

I don't think you understabd the psychology behind it, when you indulge in a bad behavior it reinforces to your mind and makes it a habit and 'normal.' Whats to say someone who does this has a kid and then they get a urge to touch them, whats to stop them from doing that? Pictures are ok so why not the real thing?

What if pictures are no longer enough?


Its the fact that they are fantasizing and WANTING to do it that is harmful to them and others. A lot of people think Molestation isn't a big thing, you wont understand until you are a survivor of it, Pretty much 80% of my personality and way of thinking is a result of my being molested, I have control issues because I was taken advantage by a authority figure, I have trouble relating to other males because I was demasculated before puberty, I was lied to and I was told that it was a secret that sex was a bad thing and that I should be ashamed of it..

There is much, much more I could go into but honestly.. I don't think it'll change anyones minds at this point, I dont think anyone can understand my pain unless you go through it..

I'm truly, genuinely sorry that you were a victim of abuse, and I hope you've gotten proper, professional help for any lasting effects. And your argument makes sense, but I'm afraid it really isn't a sound argument.

Let's apply your argument to another situation:

I don't think you understand the psychology behind videogames, when you indulge in a bad behavior it reinforces to your mind and makes it a habit and 'normal.' Whats to say someone who plays Saints Row has a gun and then they get a urge to shoot people, whats to stop them from doing that? Games are ok so why not the real thing?

Ummm ok now that i have a clearer idea what your position is its really pretty flimsy. Look i was abused myself hence why im not a fan of that art but I wont stand against another baised on that alone. Sorry but i have to agree with Noxel on this

You should reply to Dominicus' comment, not mine. S/he might not see it. Stupid FA comment threading..

Good point though i think theres enough action on this thread it will be seen eventually ^v^
Besides i said all i wanted too on the subject. Nice to meet you by the way ^v^

Yeah, was seen.

You as well! [watch]

I really don't understand your way of thinking..

That isn't the same thing..

Using a Gun and killing someone isn't the same thing as taking advantage of a helpless child that cant form words or fight back. the chance of getting caught and getting away with it vastly differ which effects the viewers decision making, I have known many people that after playing Grand theft Auto for hours and hours at a time that have had more road rage or just the urge to run someone off the road, but then they say they have to remind themselves this is the real world and they cant just do that to anyone or they will go to jail.

Games DO have an effect of the mind that is very small and and only lasts for awhile, and after awhile you get tired of said game and go on to another one, that have different goals and different behaviors that you do in it , which replace the older ones.

Where as with porn you are still going with your "Kink" but a different picture, most likely 3 uses and you go on to the next, same behavior new person, same behavior, New Person, Same behavior, new person, Thus reinforcing the same behavior for a long period of time until the mind becomes use to it.

You make several claims here. Do you have any evidence to back them up?

1. The chances of getting caught are vastly different between molesting a child and shooting somebody to death.
2. The chance at not getting caught doing something generally accepted as wrong affects people's decision making process
3. Violent games encourage real world violence


I can't quite make sense of your final paragraph. You're talking about consuming porn that involves some specific kink, and how viewing a specific image/video/story or whatever becomes old after getting off to it a few times, right?
If that's what you're saying, I don't really see how that's relevant. It seems to lead into your argument that "looking at fictitious X makes people more likely to perform X in the real world." If that's true, why aren't more furries dying from vore or macro/micro?

1 and 2 I learned in Psychology class which I got 92% final grade in college in.

I am NOT saying that violent video games cause real world violence, but more so real world aggression. Vore is impossible you can't swallow a person whole and you cant shrink or blow yourself up... Thats unrealistic.

I'm sorry but you're assuming that a person who plays video games and someone who has a deeply disturbed mind who wants molest children are the same thing

People play video games for entertainment, pedophiles have what is essentially an incurable compulsion, pedophiles do not molest children because they are bored or want to be entertained

You're asking Dominicus to provide evidence for his claims but it would be nice of you to show the same courtesy, how can you be sure that letting pedophiles have sexual images of children will calm their urges and 'satisfy their lust' as it were? How do you know it won't just encourage them to eventually harm a child because the porn isn't enough?

So anyone with pedophilia automatically has mental problems? Pedophiles aren't capable of living completely normal, healthy lives without acting on their urges?

"So anyone with pedophilia automatically has mental problems"

... ummm yes? because they are pedophiles? It is a mental disorder after all

And no, for the most part they actually can't live normal healthy lives, time and time again child molesters and pedophiles often commit and recommit their crimes no matter how much therapy and how much time they spend in prison, they will have those urges and they will 99% of the time act upon those and their behavior usually escalates.

"Pedophilia" may be the wrong term here. It's "typically characterized by a primary or exclusive sexual interest in prepubescent children."
In that context then yea, they're a bit more dangerous and need help and compassion (only when they don't rape kids..)

99% though? Got a citation for that?

What about people that have AN attraction to children, but it's not primary or exclusive and they control it effectively, either through the consumption of fictitious CP or just through willpower and being satisfied with the other facets of their sexuality?

"What about people that have AN attraction to children, but it's not primary or exclusive and they control it effectively, either through the consumption of fictitious CP or just through willpower and being satisfied with the other facets of their sexuality?"

exactly how many people do you think fit into that category?

what citation? I thought it was fairly well established that, like with drug addicts, their behavior escalates when they indulge in child pornography or sexual fantasies involving children

I have no way of knowing exactly how many people fit into that category.

If it's fairly well established, it shouldn't be hard for you to backup that statement!

Jesus christ you could google it but fine, Ill see if there something specific I can find that you won't shoot down but I can't help but feel you won't agree with regardless of what I get

Also, where's your evidence for any of the stuff you're saying? and please tell me its more than wikipedia

I don't think I've made any claims, so what would I be showing evidence for?

"I don't see the link between creating artificial "underage" artwork and being a child molester. If it helps pedos deal with their urges in ways that DON'T involve raping kids, isn't that a good thing? Or at least a less-bad thing?"

no link between the two? also are you sure it helps deal with their urges, are you sure it doesn't reinforce their behavior? and didn't you imply earlier that pedophiles don't necessarily have mental problems and that they can lead perfectly healthy normal lives, as though we shouldn't just assume they have mental problems simply because they are pedophiles?

Reinforce their behavior? What behavior? Fapping to fantasy porn? What's wrong with reinforcing that? Molesting kids? That's reinforced by...gasp...molesting kids. How is molesting kids reinforced by masturbation to fantasy porn?

I did QUESTION earlier that pedophiles MIGHT NOT necessarily have mental problems and can lead perfectly healthy normal lives. However, I think looked up the "official" definition of "pedophile" and it was a bit more narrow in scope than I thought. A pedophile has a primary or exclusive attraction to children, whereas other people I also put into that group have an attraction to children but it's not primary or exclusive.

You're kidding me right? You honestly think that masturbating to child porn will only reinforce the behavior to masturbate to child porn? I think Dom explained it pretty well in the above comments, you are reinforcing the initial sexual attraction to children, you are reinforcing the idea that its ok to be turned on by child porn and that its ok to to fantasize about children in sexual situations

Why is it not okay to be turned on by child porn?
Why is it not okay to fantasize about children in sexual situations?

Regardless of your answers, how do you establish a link between the above, and the very different act of actually raping kids?

You know what, if you are genuinely asking me those questions, and asking how I can establish a link between those things then I can't help but think this argument is going absolutely nowhere, that's like asking how you can establish a link between not paying your bills and getting your electricity cut off.

Seriously though, if you are honestly asking me why is it not okay to be turned on by child porn and why is it not okay to fantasize about children in sexual situations then I don't want any further part in this conversation, that is unless you are asking those questions ironically or are trying to engage in further debate. Please tell me you are not asking those questions because you are arguing that it IS okay to fantsize about kids and be turned on by CP

I am 100% serious in my questions to you. I would really like to have an honest, informative discussion on the matter. If you're not up for that, please say so and we'll part ways here.

No, it's nothing personal but I cannot go to that level, I cannot sit here and type out the words explaining why it is wrong to masturbate to child porn and why it is wrong to sexually fantasize about children because I honestly don't see what there is to even discuss about that - I'm sure you do but I sir, do not

Sorry you feel that way. Peace!

You don't like what's on that channel? Turn the channel and don't worry about it.

People are going to do what they want and if they do, steer away from it. I don't like facial tattoos...I'm not about to ban anyone who gets one.

People do what they like, and if you don't agree...look away. Out of sight, out of mind.

Facial tattoo's are not on the same level as cub porn, and once again Cub porn isn't allowed on the site. :/

So report it to FA staff. And if it not resolved that way, take further constructive action. I'll even back you up on that action, as preferential treatment bugs me too.

Okies. X3 I just sent a trouble ticket, as said in my new journal. <3

Not comparing face tats to cub pornography, using it as an example. I don't like it, therefore if others do...well whatever floats your boat.


Anyhoo, if it bothers you that much, don't let the door hit you on your way out.

Its a unfair comparison, and if you dont like my journal or my view points then get out of my journal friend. :)

Cub porn is against the rules, its not suppost to be there so your arguement is senseless.. :/

.../facepaw


If you don't like this stuff...go get a different account...

Gross my drink is red...red kool-aid...I DON'T LIKE THIS DRINK BUT IM GOING TO BITCH ABOUT IT SO I WASTE EVERYONE'S TIME.


gg sir.

Why are you in my journal if you dont like what I say?

Im not changing myself for you sir, I will voice my opinion rather or not you like what I have to say or not. :P

Take your own advice champ. ;)

I wouldn't be back in this journal if you didn't reply back to me...but you just push buttons for... apparently...the sake of it.

Did I ever ask you to change yourself? Did I? No, I didn't. Stay the little drama queen you are, and wow, looks like you are doing a good job at it. You should go get a hug because your drama tears make me sad...nvm...i don't care.

Are you full yet? Seems like you are getting your fair share of troll food today...

I got nothing else...talking to you is like...yeah...its useless. You want me to stay out of your journal? Then stop replying to people, shut up, and let your opinions stay opinions and not a grand scale of QQ bullshyt.

Why wouldn't I reply? LOL

Thanks for giving me the attention I want

and Im not full yet, so gimme more gimme more!!! :D

Your the one whos bitching about me wasting your time XD

No one is forcing you to read my comments and my journal, yet you come in here and bitch and complain about me bitching and complaining.

Logic Fail.

I find it so funny how I can have an adult conversation with literally EVERYONE else here except you about this. :P

Me thinks your bored and no life, thats okay though; you'll get one eventually.

Is this enough replies for you? I need more attention!!!

Laaaaa deeee daaa de da de da de da

cool story, bro

Iknowright??

Okay, I have to point this out: You're using psychological stereotyping to assume that anyone who likes porn of LBT characters is a paedophile. I know you said that you took psychology, but let me say from experience that a lot of what you were likely taught was incorrect. Psychological profiling doesn't take individual personality features into play.

Saying that people who like LBT porn are paedophiles is similar to saying that people who like feral dragon porn are in some ways zoophiles. This isn't necessarily true, as it may be an attraction to JUST those characters. Fantasy attraction isn't the same as a real-life attraction. For example, just because I like headless and modular FANTASY characters doesn't mean I'd be entirely behind it in real life. Likewise, my dislike of human porn doesn't necessarily mean I dislike the human body in person.

To keep the post from going in the same path as one of my 30-45 minute YouTube rants: There are too many factors of individuality that make generalized profiling impossible. You have to make an individual profile for every case, and then realize that such a profile can be completely shattered at any time through sudden emotional and personality changes from any number of outside influences. Not saying that the fact cub porn is against the rules is wrong. Just realize that, while your experiences were emotional scaring, they shouldn't be used to stereotype people out of sheer hatred for something an individual did.

I was bullied by a vast majority of Christian males I grew up with, including my own uncle. I didn't grow up with a human father, and had yet to awaken as dragonkin back then. I was absolutely destroyed at an emotional level when psychologists took advantage of that, needlessly putting me on Ritalin. It nearly killed me, and psychologists after that nearly killed me by putting me on too much anti-depressent. For a long time, I hated being male, and I hated psychologists. Once I became an adult, I finally realized that not all men are bad (with help from one of my closest friends), and that not all psychologists are bad.

Even recently, when my mother passed (frontal lobe brain cancer) due to doctors wanting her to pass, even forbidding us to call in EMTs when she turned critical during her last night, I almost allowed myself to hate doctors. Even now, I still a lot of hard feelings towards the healthcare system. I didn't just lose my mother, I lost the one person I could trust with every secret I have. I lost a sister, who knew I wanted to go under the knife, talked girl talk with me, and even helped me unlock my feminine side once again. I lost the one person I could go to about anything, trumping even my mates and master in that regard.

Today, I'm still bullied in some ways. People attack me for being in the fandom. People attack me for being otherkin. People attack me for identifying as a hermaphrodite. People attack me for wearing a collar. People attack me for being polyamorus. The list stretches out quite far, and I'd rather not bore you with every single entry. However, I realize that hating everyone under a specific flag is wrong. I'd be blaming people for my mother's death who had nothing to do with it. I'd be blaming Christians and men who had nothing to do with the bullying I experienced growing up. I'd be blaming every psychologist for trying to kill me, even though they weren't the one behind the pen and prescription pad. I'd be blaming people for bullying me who actually want to be friends.

I won't comment on whether cub art is wrong or not. As with subjects like incest and slavery, my views are completely atypical due to my spirituality, and I refuse to turn this into a religious debate. However, I do ask that you take what I've said about stereotyping and profiling into consideration.

You sound like someone cool to chat with about otherkin stuff. I'm an ex-kin myself!

Thank you. Oddly enough, you're the second ex-kin I've met, the other being one of my mates.

I'd actually like to talk to you on AIM, or YIM if possible.. :) Me and you have a lot in common..

Sadly, I'm rarely on IM at the moment. Having to get my energy levels back to normal due to health problems. That said, I wouldn't mind talking once I'm more able to.

Oh, and you do make a lot of points when it comes to Psychology, that they don't teach you about the individual.