What?

They have to allow your position but you don't have to allow theirs?

Tolerance is two way.

And, not that this is relevant, but I'm a gay Russian.

THEIR position punishes innocents for being who they are. I'm getting tired about hearing how RELIGIOUS people have to have their rights "protected" at the cost of ALL others' freedom.

Plus, it's a moot point, since Russia ISN'T ALLOWING others positions. Go to a gay pride parade in Russia, see how long it takes before the police come and hit you over the head.

And I am getting tired of gays trashing religion.

And anyone who disagrees with them

It is wrong on both sides.

So, are you going to be mature and allow them to have their opinion, or are you going to force your opinion on them?

You're ignoring the facts, now. Read the link I posted, below. Homosexuality is being compared to pedophilia. You seem to think religion takes precedence over every right. Gay people HAVE NO RIGHTS in Russia, and EVERYONE in Russia is losing more, everyday. Sending Pussy Riot to jail for TWO YEARS over "heresy" is medieval.

So you are saying it is okay for you to be intolerant, eh?

No, I'm saying you're ignoring the facts, which is Russia's intolerance and hatred for anyone who's different or not of the same beliefs, be they sexual orientation or atheist. TOLERANCE WORKS BOTH WAYS.

But you don't want to see the truth, apparently. Just keep staying inline with the Russian Governments way of thinking.

No. I disagree with the Russian government on this. You never bothered to ask my position on it.

But intolerance in response to intolerance just breeds anger and animosity.

And gay 'pride' parades, what I see in the US anyway, are the worst way to let folks know that gays are normal. So, do you want to move forward or do you want to remain oppressed?

I'm just going to point you towards Radjin's Posts below, as I think he sums up most of my thoughts.

But basically, yeah, meeting intolerance with quiet complacency doesn't solve anything. If Russia is allowed to continue on with their increasing human-rights violations, things will only get worse for those being oppressed. Your solution seems to be to sit quietly back and hope things "sort themselves out".

And no, I don't care what imaginary sky-magician one wants to pray to, but when that belief in said sky-magician causes one to cause harm to others, then it is WRONG and should not be quietly "tolerated".

Who says I am complacent?

Get a clue and then we might talk.

May my heart be open to the possibility that
even my enemies can become changed for the better,
with time, old antagonisms may diminish and soften,
differences may become less strident, less divisive.
May I understand that progress and change comes
often, when least expected, least sought after.
May my enemies become allies and even friends.
Bless my enemies, as I bless my friends.

Also, are you aware that in this country, the USA, gays were once likened to pedophiles?

Look how far we have come.

I dearly hope this is not a quote from the bible. The last time someone quoted the bible at me, they sabotaged the brakes to me car. And I'm from CANADA, where I'm legally married to my husband, and don't need to fear of being prosecuted by a dictatorship government.

GOOD NIGHT, AND GOOD LUCK.

Pagan prayer, actually.

There is lots of wisdom in the world and you should not close your mind against such.

We're obviously not going to agree on anything, here. You're so hard for religion, you think it takes precedence over people's freedom, which is inexcusable to me.

Plus, science, nature, and reality is my "religion".

Tolerance in the face of intolerance is a perversion of the very idea of tolerance. Asking for tolerance of people who are literally fighting against equality is a mockery of equality. No, good people do not extend tolerance to people who deny others their basic humanity and are actively trying to stop us from having a tolerant society.

As for gay pride parades, the point of a gay pride parade is not to convince bigots that gays are normal. The point of a gay pride parade is to stand tall in the face of bigotry. It's to show other LGBT people that they are not alone, that they have not been crushed or destroyed, and that LGBT people deserve to feel proud of who they are and not hide in the closet. Did you hear about the recent first gay pride parade in Uganda? That's a country where being gay is punishable with life imprisonment (and famously, lawmakers are attempting to make it punishable by death), and the chances of being killed by homophobes is sky high, and yet these people knew that standing up and refusing to hide was so important that they risked their lives to do it. Would you tell these incredibly courageous people that they should tolerate the people trying to destroy them, and that they wouldn't be oppressed if they just acted "normal"?

Also, last I checked, no one in the church has been sent to jail for being against gay people, so again, moot point.

I guess rape victims should respect the opinions and actions of rapists then.

Opinion is one thing and people are allowed to have them.

It's when people of a certain opinion take action to oppress the freedoms and equalities of others, based on those opinions and beliefs, that it becomes harmful.


And I am getting tired of gays trashing religion

And I am getting tired of religious people holding everyone accountable to their belief system and punishing them both directly and indirectly for not ascribing to it and then confusing: not getting what they want, with: being oppressed.

Directly: blowing other people up, using their political power to oppress others (gays, blacks) because "it says so in my book", entire towns shunning entire families for being atheist

Indirectly: posting giant crosses and billboards and subway ads for everyone to see

So yes, if you seriously think people are "wrong" because they're not only being oppressed by many organizations who's beliefs have as much credibility as a doctor Suesse book, and reacting accordingly (ie; getting pissed off) and are "immature" for not accepting religious motivated oppression; then you either have no understanding of how much religion has been fucking the world over for thousands of years, or you're just an asshole

no offense, RC, but the reason the church is being ridiculed is because of the way it seeks to limit the rights of other, non-church people. It's no different if Muslims wanted to ban Christianity in some country or other.

He's not listening, apparently. He's stuck on religion = right.

I don't think he believes religion = right. I think he's just one of those types of people who thinks it's wrong to fight back or rock the boat. "Shhhh, if you don't make too much noise and if you don't fight back, they won't notice you!" It's quiet complacency, bred from a viewpoint that standing up for yourself against the authority only leads to worse actions.

An oppressed minority has no reason, nor any cause to "tolerate" the actions and viewpoints of those who actively oppress them. To say otherwise is foolish, and is tantamount to saying that people who are beaten should be grateful for the opportunity. People are using their religious beliefs to determine the accessibility of rights (and in many cases is leading to the direct harm) of a minority of people who are forced to fight back because of it. There is no "you need to respect and tolerate them" when there is absolutely no respect or tolerance coming from them.

I have my own opinion about religion, and they're certainly not good. However, I also realize that religion is just a red herring in all of this, because it's not religion that's the problem. It's the people who use that religion to justify their hatred and their persecution of people (not just gays) over thousands of years. The real irony being that their actions are exactly the opposite of what their religion teaches them.

That said, I would never support the outlawing of religion, the criminalization of religion, the persecution of those who are religious or the death of people who believe in religion. THAT is the fundamental difference between the two groups, because the same cannot be said of religions views of gay people. And simply understanding that and disagreeing vehemently with the people who wish to directly do me harm has nothing to do with my "lack of tolerance". I tolerate their religion just fine. I do not, however, tolerate their interference in my, and millions of other people's lives for absolutely no fucking reason.

... by chance have you heard of the term "uncle tom?"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/.....n_1797012.html

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/.....ussy-riot.html

RCRuskin: gtfo my internets, kthxbai. :3

you must be Putin us on. :D

LOL!

*ahem* THIS IS NOT A FORUM OF LEVITY!

no russian to conclusions, now!

BLAARRGH!!1

seriously, dude... you better czech yourself before you end up having to go stalin for time to catch your breath.

You otter listen to him :3

NO! You listen to otters..

<.<

>.>

: D