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Just FYI -won't be seeing me at meets for a bit.
13 years ago
I probably won't be going to the Manchester meets for a while.
The message that I've been taking away recently is (and this isn't me having any kind of a dig at the organisers, because its a thankless job and they do put a lot of effort in), but what I've been left feeling like over the last few meets is 'unless you have a fursuit, there's nothing for you here.'
Now, I wouldn't begrudge anybody their fursuit, because I'll admit, I really want one. I just don't have the disposable income right now. But, it seems like more and more of the meets are being designed to cater specifically to the fursuiters and the rest of us should go make our own fun. Unless we want to go on the fursuit walk and tell the fursuiters how amazing they are etc etc.
Again, not expecting anybody to give up their fursuit or anything, and this is not meant to be a massive amount of drama. But I'm not the only person saying this. The number of people who leave after the first hour these days is increasing, and to be perfectly honest, as we're left to make our own fun and socialise in a bar, well, we really could do that any time.
I just feel like the non-suiters are being ostracised for not shelling out hundreds-to-thousands of pounds for a suit and not being part of the chosen community (again, I really love fursuits, it's just this attitude that's been happening recently that has me irked).
All furries are created equal, but get a fursuit and become more equal than the others. Sorry, but, no. I take umbrage with this.
This isn't me boycotting the meets or leading a revolution. I'm not even suggesting that other people stop going. This is just me, letting everyone know that it's incredibly possible that I won't be there for a while.
I'm not trying to say organisers aren't doing their jobs or criticise just ... try to put more thought towards non-suiters.
I know there were activities planned for much later in the day. But how many people stay that late? Fursuiters come first, non-suiters second.
If there is a sudden sharp decline in attendance, then don't be shocked, cause as I said earlier, I am really not the only person that feels this way.
People should know by now that I'm not a spiteful, petty drama fur. I just feel kinda let down and I haven't had a great deal of enjoyment at a meet for quite some time.
So, thank you for the effort that is being in. I know people do appreciate that there are meets every month. I may come back soon, but if all I hear from people is that this elitist fursuiter trend continues to prevail, then don't expect to see me for a while.
It's been about three years that I've been going now. But the fun's gone out of it and I'm really not enjoying it any more.
I'm not leaving the fandom by any means. Just not going to the meets any more. That includes the main meet (don't even get me started on that)
Oh, and another thing. I'm incredibly camera shy. I don't like having my picture taken. So, meet organisers, for the people at the meets who are as uncomfortable as I am about this kind of thing, you seriously need to start keeping in check the increasing number of people showing up with cameras and snapping at everything that moves without asking any kind of permission.
I counted at least five today. So, even if I did want to join in the activities, it's another boundary for me because there's cameras absolutely everywhere and I haven't been approached once while people have taken pictures and video taped everything in sight to ask if its okay.
Sorry for the rant, I was going to try and keep this short.
But, yeah
Maybe see people in the new year.
The message that I've been taking away recently is (and this isn't me having any kind of a dig at the organisers, because its a thankless job and they do put a lot of effort in), but what I've been left feeling like over the last few meets is 'unless you have a fursuit, there's nothing for you here.'
Now, I wouldn't begrudge anybody their fursuit, because I'll admit, I really want one. I just don't have the disposable income right now. But, it seems like more and more of the meets are being designed to cater specifically to the fursuiters and the rest of us should go make our own fun. Unless we want to go on the fursuit walk and tell the fursuiters how amazing they are etc etc.
Again, not expecting anybody to give up their fursuit or anything, and this is not meant to be a massive amount of drama. But I'm not the only person saying this. The number of people who leave after the first hour these days is increasing, and to be perfectly honest, as we're left to make our own fun and socialise in a bar, well, we really could do that any time.
I just feel like the non-suiters are being ostracised for not shelling out hundreds-to-thousands of pounds for a suit and not being part of the chosen community (again, I really love fursuits, it's just this attitude that's been happening recently that has me irked).
All furries are created equal, but get a fursuit and become more equal than the others. Sorry, but, no. I take umbrage with this.
This isn't me boycotting the meets or leading a revolution. I'm not even suggesting that other people stop going. This is just me, letting everyone know that it's incredibly possible that I won't be there for a while.
I'm not trying to say organisers aren't doing their jobs or criticise just ... try to put more thought towards non-suiters.
I know there were activities planned for much later in the day. But how many people stay that late? Fursuiters come first, non-suiters second.
If there is a sudden sharp decline in attendance, then don't be shocked, cause as I said earlier, I am really not the only person that feels this way.
People should know by now that I'm not a spiteful, petty drama fur. I just feel kinda let down and I haven't had a great deal of enjoyment at a meet for quite some time.
So, thank you for the effort that is being in. I know people do appreciate that there are meets every month. I may come back soon, but if all I hear from people is that this elitist fursuiter trend continues to prevail, then don't expect to see me for a while.
It's been about three years that I've been going now. But the fun's gone out of it and I'm really not enjoying it any more.
I'm not leaving the fandom by any means. Just not going to the meets any more. That includes the main meet (don't even get me started on that)
Oh, and another thing. I'm incredibly camera shy. I don't like having my picture taken. So, meet organisers, for the people at the meets who are as uncomfortable as I am about this kind of thing, you seriously need to start keeping in check the increasing number of people showing up with cameras and snapping at everything that moves without asking any kind of permission.
I counted at least five today. So, even if I did want to join in the activities, it's another boundary for me because there's cameras absolutely everywhere and I haven't been approached once while people have taken pictures and video taped everything in sight to ask if its okay.
Sorry for the rant, I was going to try and keep this short.
But, yeah
Maybe see people in the new year.
I only went to a few of the meets [do want to go again sometime but money's tight and it takes about two hours to get there and the same to get back if not longer,] but in my experience all they have ever been is "meet at pub, drink and talk, some fursuit stuff, go home or go clubbing."
Not once were there any planned activities other than drinking, eatting and suiting. When I brought this up people actually argued against it as "it wasn't a can" and they didn't want it to be overplanned.
Given the size of the "mini" meets frankly they need[ed] to have a more con-like setup to me.
Again, I don't begrudge the suiters, but everything now is planned around them and it feels like non-suiters aren't really given much thought at all.
It's really quite unfair to the people who do have to travel in a fair way. Or first timers because it gives no incentive for them to come back.
I've only continued to go for so long because I live so close. But honestly, I'm through for now.
And yes, the meets die down significantly after the fursuit walk. Always have done. I don't know a great deal of people who do the clubbing thing or who stay until past 9. I certainly don't. Maybe I would if there was something for me to do. But waiting patiently until 7 or later once the fursuiters have been attended to just isn't a tune I'm willing to dance to.
-meet at station
- go to ### on canal street
- drink and chat
- eat
- drink and chat
- fursuit walk
- drink and chat/go home.
As someone who doesn't tend to drink and needs activities [I need to keep busy in some way,] it sucked.
Once, we went to the cinema after [and I ended up missing the last train because of it and had to wait alone all night.]
Here we didn’t take into consideration that shoving any activity into the evening was probably bad on those who either couldn’t stay that long as they had trains to catch, or they didn’t want to have to wait till the late afternoon or evening for something that may or may not take place and may or may not have interested them.
I have some thoughts on what can be done in-between the 12-to-3pm time slot. I will mull it over.
People do normally disappear for food around 1 and they're not back by 2, maybe even 3. But if you're considering stuff for folk to do before the walk. perhaps maybe something for them to do during for all those who don't want to go on the walk?
People who aren't fans of sackville gardens .. or you know, the camera shy? Because there are such a ridiculous amount of folk with cameras and most of them just don't bother asking if it's okay. Another reason I stay inside now, but even there I had to sit with my coat over my head. I don't enjoy being on film and it makes the day even more stressful as I have to either leave or keep an eye on every single camera and where its pointing to make sure I'm not in shot.
And the upstairs being off limits was not communicated very well. The message was, upstairs is for fursuiters only. That was pretty much it.
No explanation about us not having fully booked it. I heard the bar wasn't open, but there's still the room, the seating, being able to be somewhere that isn't still open to the public drunkards and, y'know, being occupied by the public drunkards.
I just don't enjoy going any more. Don't get me wrong, I love seeing the people and all of my furry friends. There are some people I am going to miss significantly. It's just got to that point for me where same-old same-old just doesn't cut i any more. I imagine for those who have to travel a fair way, even less so.
You guys do a thankless job and I really appreciate the effort that is put in every meet.
It's just not for me any more.
Maybe I'll get my drive back and really want to come next month even.
Who knows?
Best of luck with your changes though. I really hope you can make an impact on the meets because they are stagnating right now.
No need to, I know, you mentioned it at the beginning of the post and I understand. :)
Admittedly, it has been irritating me that the suiters seem to be the focus of the meets these days.
Yes and if it is true that it has been bothering others as well, than it is something I should look into.
But if you're considering stuff for folk to do before the walk. perhaps maybe something for them to do during for all those who don't want to go on the walk?
Yes, entirely do-able.
And the upstairs being off limits was not communicated very well. The message was, upstairs is for fursuiters only. That was pretty much it.
No explanation about us not having fully booked it. I heard the bar wasn't open, but there's still the room, the seating, being able to be somewhere that isn't still open to the public drunkards and, y'know, being occupied by the public drunkards.
*nods* yes I take blame for that, no excuses.
I just don't enjoy going any more… It's just got to that point for me where same-old same-old just doesn't cut i any more.
I understand and I hope you don’t feel like I’m trying to desperately coy you back like an ex-lover saying it’ll be better next this time round, promise. I respect that you’re gonna not be coming.
But yes I appreciate your reasons and it’s a wake up call to me to try and start initiating some changes to stop the stagnation before anymore become disenfranchised. And for that I’m grateful.
Maybe I'll get my drive back and really want to come next month even.
With all due respect I think you should stick with your plan rather than cave to the “don’t want to leave the party incase something happens”, take the break and you know, as you say you can organise meets up with friends separate from the meets anyway.
And I would hope by 2013 if you do decide to attend a meet I will have been given enough time and practice to try and make a difference.
I guess you might find it unbelievable people hold such opinions (just as I find it unbelievable Londoners believe there’s no culture beyond their borders), but there are a few. I can certainly see why some furs prefer it to be paw’s off in letting them do their own thing and others wanting a guided set of programmes. It’s like a balancing board that we try to carefully position ourselves on in the middle, though seemingly we’ve been wobbling too much to one set of people on the see-saw lately.
Given the size of the "mini" meets frankly they need[ed] to have a more con-like setup to me.
We’ll work on it. This year we’ve been formally expanding the staff numbers and there’s stuff happening behind the scenes in terms of trying to organise the staff and create a committee culture in order to better organise things out. But yes does seem like we need to be hitting the floor running in terms of getting to the level of organisation LondonFurs have.
I think we were held back a little because when Stuart (that is to say myself) finished university it was left on Dark’s shoulders, which was stressful for him as he had a lot of his own university stuff going and so even he would admit it was left on auto-pilot for a lot of time. Then by the time I came back onto the scene it was March and then things were quickly moving when Lone was made venue liaison.
I do understand how people can have the opinion that they want something with no structure at all and are happy to stay in a bar chatting all day, what I don't get is how aggressively against it some people were back then to the extent that no-one would even try to org anise anything because they'd only get crap for it [even when just trying to get a group together for something and not forcing anyone else into it.]
[Haven't run into the "no culture" opinion from Londoners, but I have run into the issue of price differences and some not being willing to accept that the midlands is piss-poor XD.]
I do wish you luck with improving the meets, the lack of anything to do really kept me from coming these past years. There are so many people and so many established groups that it's hard for someone on the outside to get in, with activities to do it's so much easier to get involved and interact. I think that's what's needed to keep new people coming back.
Really, i've been thinking this EXACT same thing for quite some time, and I just thought it was me being whiney again. But i'm so so glad to see i'm not the only one.
I do take issue with the hyper amount of stuff going on that's really not needed, most of it being aimed at fursuiters, and worse, this whole "you can't go here because you're not a fursuiter", "this whole floor is out of bounds now", "this area is a games room for fursuiters only".
Obviously I don't mean the changing area, and I may be mistaken with a lot of that, but that's how it comes across to me.
For that matter, why should I have to worry about going into the changing area to help out my boyfriend who's a fursuiter because he needs me to?
I mean, they had coloured pens last time, marking people's hands. That's too much. I feel like I can't see half the meet and the last time I went, I couldn't even see half my friends because they were off doing all this stuff for 'later activities'.
I stopped going a while back and won't go anymore until it calms down a little. I know they work hard and such, but it's just spoilt it for me, to be honest.
And yeah, the cameras. It's starting to do my head in too. For a couple of meets I was wanting to use my new camcorder to record some fursuiters, but generally didn't use it - because there were too many cameras there already, and I didn't really want to add to it. Not only that, but i've had people with cameras [b]deliberately get in my way[b] of the few pictures I was wanting to take.
If there's very few cameras, I would consider taking some pictures or a limited amount of video of fursuiters - but not pointing it at anybody's faces.
But there's so damn many, and they're all massive things, and they're everywhere, and they're flashing in everybody's faces and.. guh. I have problems with cameras myself sometimes, and sometimes I have one too, which I know might make me sound hypocritical, but I do limit it and keep it out of people's faces.
There's always going to be cameras at these meets so it's hard to complain, but I agree there's a limit X3
Just been to my first London meet today and this kind of thing was bugging me there too - at least with the cameras. It's really offputting.
I was really annoyed yesterday to find out that the upper floor was now exclusively fursuiters only. The upper floor not only provides an additional bar so queueing isn't as much of an issue, but there's an extra toilet and loads of additional seating. Downstairs fills up pretty fast, and a hell of a lot of people end up standing. Especially when the main bar is still open to the public too, so you get old queens and drunken knobs in there asking why all these freaks have tails on.
Of course, I want the fursuiters to have privacy while changing, but I really thought that was what the downstairs was going to be for. Cordoned off during the day and then later the games happen downstairs once all the fursuit stuff is packed away.
But no, a whole floor for fursuiters only. It was just a final straw really. It's not enough for some people to have a club, but there must then be a club within a club for the privileged few.
It's been irritating me and now, well. If stuff starts being planned again for non-suiters, I'll go back, but honestly, the meets are turning into micro cons and there's going to be no point showing up soon unless you're a fursuiter. Far easier to speak to the furs that you want to be friends with and organise your groups and meet up whenever you want. Doesn't take much to go sit in a bar somewhere or go for pizza made in questionably unhygienic conditions.
So, in short. No, you're not the only one who is thinking this.
I would go to London but after having been a couple of times, it's a similar case of you either being in a clique already or being a popufur. Otherwise you get ignored *shrugs*
I agree with what you say about them trying to turn it into a mini-con: that's exactly what i've been thinking for a while now. It's bad enough at actual conventions like CF where most of the events are for fursuiters or for people to give fursuiters attention, without meets turning that way too.
Ah well, guess i'm not missing much then. I miss the people I know from the meets and friends in Manchester but it's not really worth going anymore for me.
I've never understood the suiter-only activities, it's one thing if it's something they couldn't possibly win against non-suiters but many games [at cons at least] everyone would be equal anyway regardless of what they wear [I know I'd love to take part in the more active events that get held.]
Yes, it's more fun to watch if it's only suiters due to the cute factor, but it's always more fun to be able to participate in something and not be excluded. [Though from my three times at CF I always found the balance between suiter events and everyone events pretty even, regardless of not being able to take part in some of the more physical events due to no suit.]
There has to be a balance and there has to be more to do than drink, eat and chat.
I’m afraid it’s more complex than that Akinokaze, sorry.
As far as I’m aware we had designated the floor as the changing room that day.
The upper floor not only provides an additional bar so queueing isn't as much of an issue, but there's an extra toilet and loads of additional seating
Unfortunately we no longer have use of the upper floor. The money made on the upper floor was counter balanced by the costs of staff serving and maintaining the floor, whilst still having 2 staff at the ground floor who were serving fewer people. So it wasn’t quite working out to bother having us use the floor. Least that’s what I understand from Lone of the situation.
I’m sorry, should of communicated this in a newsletter.
Obviously I don't mean the changing area, and I may be mistaken with a lot of that, but that's how it comes across to me.
Humm, which month was this? And this the upstairs floor or underground floor?
I think something might have come across wrong indeed and I apologise. A few months ago the downstairs was off limits as it was being used as a spare changing room until the evening, perhaps that might of been it? Please do let me know more about it.
For that matter, why should I have to worry about going into the changing area to help out my boyfriend who's a fursuiter because he needs me to?
You shouldn’t have to worry about aiding a fursuiter in changing. We just need to know who is helping a fursuiter out as we’re trying to avoid the situation of overcrowding the day’s designated changing area.
Also you mentioned you don’t mean changing areas. That confuses me as there isn’t like an exclusive floor for fursuiters to have a gentlemen’s club smoking kippers, wearing evening jackets and reading The Times. If it’s out of bounds it’s a changing area or a cool off area, admittedly month to month the size of the area has changed as we were trying to find what worked best for them and may have not communicated that well.
And I also apologise to you that too much is being pandered to the fursuiters, I will look into it on your behalf.
Thanks for your constructive comments and feedback, I’ve read up on them and taken them on board.
I shall see in the next staff meeting what we can do to try and address the misbalance that we’ve become alarmingly oblivious to.
I hope by next year things will be satisfactory.