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My take on the Hostess situation, a response on a web forum.
13 years ago
Have you ever heard of "Exhaustion of resources" ?
The board was behind the ceo in his decisions, there weren't any stockholders as Hostess is, once again, as I stated before, I a privately owned company. It is incorporated but not publicly traded. These people have the right to do with their property, which they own, as they see fit. I don't understand how you don't get that, it belongs to them. They own it.
Society seems to have developed some kind of serious problem with the understanding of the word "Mine" or "Property" or "Responsibility" or "Individual" in any order. Its frankly really terrifying, its the kind of mindset that used to only exist in bad agitprop and Ayn Rand novels. The concept that a union went on strike because "The wages they were offering are less than I could get on Unemployment while I seek a new job", they destroyed a 98 year old company (82 officially in its current incarnation), and put 16,000 people on the taxpayers dime because its easier for them. They will spend almost 2 years being paid more to sit on their asses, and it likely will be that long because seriously I can't even imagine who's looking for 16,000 bakers in this economy, especially people who do and say things like this. Hiring ANY of these people who participated in this strike would be like getting a cancer transplant.
As for the golden rule, do you even see what these people are "Doing unto others"? They just stole from you, and from me, 16,000 people are about to get 99 weeks of unemployment because the alternative was they'd have to work for reduced wages to keep the company they worked for in business, they could have quit, and let people come in who WOULD work for those wages, instead they went on strike and closed the plants with the understanding that "The wages they were offering are less than I could get on Unemployment while I seek a new job". I do under others by working every hour I can, I have worked full time since I was 15 and was able to get my "Working Papers" from the state of NY, substantially more hours than I was allowed to work at that age because I enjoy being able to buy the things I want with my own hard work. Sometimes I made more than I needed, sometimes I made less, I never got a dime that I didn't earn even if it meant living all Wal-mart brand bread and Great Value mustard sandwiches for a couple days between paychecks.
I work for the "G" because I actually ENJOY what I do, I had no idea what this job paid when I applied, I didn't find out until the day I EOD'd that it went up as high as it did, it was steady work, doing something that mattered to me for personal reasons, in an environment where I wasn't surrounded by parasites. I'm thankful the union is there, and I don't oppose all unions, they were extremely important in the development of reasonable workplace standards and many have adapated to know their place in the modern world where there ARE legal protections for employees. However this shortsighted idiocy perpetrated at hostess is against all reason and rationality. "I will stop growing food in my nation, and have my people steal from the nation next door" is essentially the parable to this situation, except in this case there will never be enough to feed everyone that way. Or maybe "Its cold and we're almost out of firewood, I know, burn the house down, that will keep us warm!". Easy yes, but not rational.
As for job security, we work for a "Company" that is spending 30% more than it takes in annually, and borrowing the difference every year with no plan to make up the difference, ever. It provides its "Employees" with a very generous "Benefits package" it can't afford, including "great vacation pay!". We don't have Job Security, not for long at any rate.
The world exists, its not something that can be altered by hopes, dreams, prayers, magic crystals, or extremely convincing political rhetoric, it is an objective world that exists outside of your opinions, beliefs, and perceptive bias. In this case the perceptive bias is that 2 years of higher wages on the dole will be better for these workers than an indefinite period of employment at low wages with the understanding that when profits return they can still negotiate for better pay. The reality of the past 7 years would suggest this belief to be irrational, either you are correct, and I will learn, or I am correct. Either way, I win, I doubt these workers are going to be as lucky.
EDIT!
My last paragraph was described by my detractor as "Victim mentality" so here is my explanation of it:
My actual last sentence pointed out that either you'd be correct and I'd learn something, or I'd be correct, either way, I win. Or if you mean the recognition of Objective reality, I don't see any inherant victimhood. The recognition that the world exists doesn't presuppose that I cannot thrive and triumph in that world, it is simply the acknowledgement that I can ONLY do so by not deluding myself to believe any other means but effort and reason will allow me to do so. Reality cannot be faked, a plate of food is a plate of food, a glass of poison is a glass of poison, and if it is my opinion that the opposite is true, I will be no less dead for my belief. If I steal, I am destroying myself, and others for the sake of myself, and that is not rational. If I allow others to steal from me I am destroying myself for the sake of others and that is irrational as well. I can through my intellect and my hard work, better myself, at no mean cost to anyone save for those who wish to pay me to work for them, and that is rational, and it is reasonable. It is the only way to face reality, hope alone cannot influence your world but through hard work you can realize anything you can conceptualize, if what you conceptualize is within the realm of the possible. No wish, no fervent prayer can make the impossible, possible.
The board was behind the ceo in his decisions, there weren't any stockholders as Hostess is, once again, as I stated before, I a privately owned company. It is incorporated but not publicly traded. These people have the right to do with their property, which they own, as they see fit. I don't understand how you don't get that, it belongs to them. They own it.
Society seems to have developed some kind of serious problem with the understanding of the word "Mine" or "Property" or "Responsibility" or "Individual" in any order. Its frankly really terrifying, its the kind of mindset that used to only exist in bad agitprop and Ayn Rand novels. The concept that a union went on strike because "The wages they were offering are less than I could get on Unemployment while I seek a new job", they destroyed a 98 year old company (82 officially in its current incarnation), and put 16,000 people on the taxpayers dime because its easier for them. They will spend almost 2 years being paid more to sit on their asses, and it likely will be that long because seriously I can't even imagine who's looking for 16,000 bakers in this economy, especially people who do and say things like this. Hiring ANY of these people who participated in this strike would be like getting a cancer transplant.
As for the golden rule, do you even see what these people are "Doing unto others"? They just stole from you, and from me, 16,000 people are about to get 99 weeks of unemployment because the alternative was they'd have to work for reduced wages to keep the company they worked for in business, they could have quit, and let people come in who WOULD work for those wages, instead they went on strike and closed the plants with the understanding that "The wages they were offering are less than I could get on Unemployment while I seek a new job". I do under others by working every hour I can, I have worked full time since I was 15 and was able to get my "Working Papers" from the state of NY, substantially more hours than I was allowed to work at that age because I enjoy being able to buy the things I want with my own hard work. Sometimes I made more than I needed, sometimes I made less, I never got a dime that I didn't earn even if it meant living all Wal-mart brand bread and Great Value mustard sandwiches for a couple days between paychecks.
I work for the "G" because I actually ENJOY what I do, I had no idea what this job paid when I applied, I didn't find out until the day I EOD'd that it went up as high as it did, it was steady work, doing something that mattered to me for personal reasons, in an environment where I wasn't surrounded by parasites. I'm thankful the union is there, and I don't oppose all unions, they were extremely important in the development of reasonable workplace standards and many have adapated to know their place in the modern world where there ARE legal protections for employees. However this shortsighted idiocy perpetrated at hostess is against all reason and rationality. "I will stop growing food in my nation, and have my people steal from the nation next door" is essentially the parable to this situation, except in this case there will never be enough to feed everyone that way. Or maybe "Its cold and we're almost out of firewood, I know, burn the house down, that will keep us warm!". Easy yes, but not rational.
As for job security, we work for a "Company" that is spending 30% more than it takes in annually, and borrowing the difference every year with no plan to make up the difference, ever. It provides its "Employees" with a very generous "Benefits package" it can't afford, including "great vacation pay!". We don't have Job Security, not for long at any rate.
The world exists, its not something that can be altered by hopes, dreams, prayers, magic crystals, or extremely convincing political rhetoric, it is an objective world that exists outside of your opinions, beliefs, and perceptive bias. In this case the perceptive bias is that 2 years of higher wages on the dole will be better for these workers than an indefinite period of employment at low wages with the understanding that when profits return they can still negotiate for better pay. The reality of the past 7 years would suggest this belief to be irrational, either you are correct, and I will learn, or I am correct. Either way, I win, I doubt these workers are going to be as lucky.
EDIT!
My last paragraph was described by my detractor as "Victim mentality" so here is my explanation of it:
My actual last sentence pointed out that either you'd be correct and I'd learn something, or I'd be correct, either way, I win. Or if you mean the recognition of Objective reality, I don't see any inherant victimhood. The recognition that the world exists doesn't presuppose that I cannot thrive and triumph in that world, it is simply the acknowledgement that I can ONLY do so by not deluding myself to believe any other means but effort and reason will allow me to do so. Reality cannot be faked, a plate of food is a plate of food, a glass of poison is a glass of poison, and if it is my opinion that the opposite is true, I will be no less dead for my belief. If I steal, I am destroying myself, and others for the sake of myself, and that is not rational. If I allow others to steal from me I am destroying myself for the sake of others and that is irrational as well. I can through my intellect and my hard work, better myself, at no mean cost to anyone save for those who wish to pay me to work for them, and that is rational, and it is reasonable. It is the only way to face reality, hope alone cannot influence your world but through hard work you can realize anything you can conceptualize, if what you conceptualize is within the realm of the possible. No wish, no fervent prayer can make the impossible, possible.
With Unions I often wonder how many of the members really are militant and such and how many are forced to go on these protests, and pay dues they may not want to, and by no fault of their own by reputation be smeared from working due to incidents like this?
What are govt unions like? How do they operate? Similar or different as it is within the govt?