Thanks for the info.

I too avoid that stuff as much as possible. I wasn't even aware of half the problems it is a part of. :p That might explain the increased numbers of folks I keep seeing with one mental problem or another. Surprise surprise, they're all eating at McDonalds.

Remember also that I didn't say that MSG is linked to these problems, it actually causes them directly.

All cited studies were done on animals however, but I don't think that changes their validity. Especially since we can't do human studies on MSG.

I spread the word around work today. ^^ Most of my co-workers already avoid most fast food places. I only frequent fresh oriental grills and sushi bars. The vast majority of the time, I just make my own meals and bring them with me. Much cheaper, and probably a hell of a lot better for me.

Yup.

I used to be allergic to MSG, meaning it'd make me puke my guts out.

Your body was doing you a favour in that case ;)

Full body rash for me. It's not fun.

My god thanks for telling mer ;P to late though nI've already got AS :P rofl

Your body can repair itself i you clean yourself out.

Your telling me that I can cure my mind of Asperger Syndrome? some awkward mental condition that affects one's social understanding and ability and the way one interprits life? Sure sign me up :P Hehe Just jsoghing you I'm not curable as it aint a desease, but it IS scary to be aware of just how much damge humans can do to others for what.. a few simple pleasures..

To cure something like that you'd need to totally clean your body, get into peak physical condition, start a nutrient overload diet and begin extensive meditation.

If you can pull that off you'll be able to fight off almost anything and begin the process of self regeneration. Unfortunately given our environment and foods our bodies are in a perpetual state of decline which is associated with aging. Our bodies don't get the chance to regenerate because all the energy is spent reparing the damage we cause to it.

Western medicine works outside the cause and effect spectrum treating everything separately as though everything in our body is a closed system. However our bodies are completely interconnected in every way. Even the removal of so called "useless" organs can harm us.

*Looks at you then backs off...*Oookay... >_> Umm right.. lemme know when a blind person can see again after eating their vegetables :P

It just so happens that one of my mother's friend's mother had lost her vision for several years. She was told to eat artichokes which can both prevent and treat cataracts. In fact drugs used in the treatment of cataracts contain the same chemicals found in artichokes.

OKay... >_> *eats his words* got any ketchup? :P

You do know that aspberger syndrome is something that is people is born with? It's also something some people don't want to be cured of since they tend to be very gifted too (alot of furry artists, and higher ups in the IT industry have it). It's more of a genitcal thing than caused by chemicals too.

Although, geez I need to cut down on the crap I actually eat. Not only becuse of this MGS thing, but becuse of all fats too. :/

You'd be surprised how many seemingly genetic diseases are caused by toxic chemical buildup.

As for aspergers though, I have no idea. Some really are hereditary.

You realize these health effects will occur only if you eat MSG every day, right? It's alarmist to imply that the casual fast food eater will incur any of these diseases or side effects. McDonald's once a month or so is not going to be harmful.

You remind me strongly of those people who said a few years back that yellow 5 (the coloring agent in Mountain Dew, Mello Yello, etc.) caused testicular shrinkage, impotence, and decreased sperm count in males. Only to find out that you would have to drink a gallon of the stuff every day for those effects to occur.

But what you should realize is that a majority of people DO eat MSG every day. Go look in your cupboard, chances are 90% of the foods you have are laced with MSG.

Use any sauces? ketchup? canned soup? boullion? all loaded with msg. Then there's the fact that fruits and veggies in the US are sprayed with MSG to combat fungus. Your breakfast likely contains a lot of msg too unless you make it from base ingredients and don't drink any orange juice.

Once you know what to look for and try to avoid it you'll find the selection of foods available to you shrinks drastically.

I should also point out that MSG is absorbed directly into the bloodstream and doesn't need to be digested. It can pass straight through the lining of your mouth and directly into your brain.

Australia is currently in the process of trying to ban the substace, but the US is pressuring them to keep it legal.

Now that I'm living in AU, I'd sure have my vote in for it to be banned. BTW, though, if packages aren't even required to admit that the product contians MSG, how do you know if you're getting it or not?

Through taste, and if you inexplicably crave it.

It's in fruit too? O.o How am I supposed to know what has it?

If you stop eating it you'll be able to taste it after a few months.

I'm suspicious of tropicana orange juice.

Tropicana is 100% at least here in the UK. Though we have tighter restrictions on advertising and labelling than you yanks do. Corporations weild the power there.

Thanks! I do avoid fast food and packaged foods because of MSG. I didn't know MSG has many names and I'm not familiar with Taurine, but I'll check into it. And sure I've been to McDonald's, and always wondered what that smell was, because it sure doesn't smell like real food!

Source? Where did you get all of this information?

You say that MSG does not have to be on the ingredients label, but that does not seem to be the case. I see it on food labels all the time; the FDA requires all foods that contain added MSG have "monosodium glutamate" on the label. (You can look this up on fda.gov.)

How have you been glutamate free for two years? That seems to me to be quite an accomplishment, given the wide array of foods that have glutamate in them. Or is it that you only avoid the MSG additive specifically? What evidence do you have that MSG is horrid but glutamate (which MSG dissolves to) is fine?

FDA page about MSG (the labeling thing is the last two paragraphs):
http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2003/103_msg.html

The issue with glutamates and MSG is actually why it's so addictive. Your brain actually needs certain glutamates to build connections and when it absorbs MSG it thinks it's absorbing normal glutamates. However MSG behaves differently in the body and actually pulls glutamates OUT of the brain.

The studies and information is readily available online and at university libraries (where my sister is getting her research). Also there are 3 studies that are widely used to support MSG as being safe. One of which is written by a scientist that has long since been discredited for his shilling to industry. His study was reviewed shortly after and it turned out he never did any of his tests. Another is a study done in asia that is actually about natural glutamates and the last one is by the MSG Support Organization. Yes they have an actual organization set up to support MSG.

However the FDA and other routinely state that MSG is the most widely studied food additive in the world. This is true and all the studies save for the 3 i mentioned have found it to be dangerous, there are well over 1,200 studies to this effect.

Take what the FDA says with a grain of salt, they're corporate shills of the highest order. Bet you didn't know that wonderbread contains formaldehyde, which also doesn't need to be on the label. In case you were wondering what that weird smell was.

I do however concede that MSG has not been confirmed as being secretly added. I can only go by my taste buds.

Sigh. Look at what I've done, I've gone and gotten myself into a healthy foods debate without stopping to think about how little it's likely to accomplish. Mea culpa :). I've been down this road with a few of my friends enough times to know it's silly to argue. You obviously feel very strongly about it and aren't likely to change your mind, given the effort I'm sure it must take to avoid MSG, and I'm just not willing to cut out the tasty foods, choosing instead to take the 'eat all things in moderation and hope for the best' road. The only thing I can point to that support my road is that the idea of what's "good" and what's "bad" seems to change way too often, and that most of the time the bad effects are only when you eat way too much of a thing. Hardly scientific ;).

It's funny, though, I've often called MSG 'addictive' in a mostly joking sense just because when I'm eating snacks with MSG I'm much more likely to finish most of the bag all at once without even noticing. I always assumed it was because MSG makes things delicious; I wasn't aware that there might be something more to it.

Also, for what it's worth, I didn't mean to try to cite that whole FDA page, just the bit about the labeling requirement. I don't delude myself into thinking that FDA approval can't be bought just like anything else the government does.

It's true if you listen to the mainstream media about what constitutes good and bad food it will change all the time. The fact is that there are foods that ARE good for you and have always been that way. Once those foods become popular though their cultivation or production will start to increase and the quality of stock will drop.

If you want to taste the best you have to go all natural. An organic strawberry has at least 50x the flavour of regular and organic peppers are actually spicy. Overcultivated and processed foods have no flavour and no nutritional value which is why they resort to the use of MSG and artificial flavouring.

Go out and buy an organic chocolate bar and a hershey's bar and just compare the difference. You also don't get sick after eading lots of organic food or candy.

I luuuuuuuuuv organic chocolate but I'm cleansing right now so I can't eat the delicious chocolate cookies my mother and I made :(

Yes but most apples NATURALLY contain trace amounts of cyanide and almonds contain arsenic.

So what is there left to eat then?
Or maybe I should ask it this way, what is safe to eat then?
Examples?

Just buy unpopular or obscure vegetables. They're better for you than mainstream and cost 1/10th as much :D

Lots of organic foods are MSG free and some companies don't use MSG.

There's a myth that eating healthy and organic costs a lot. This is only the case at the very beginning of the switch. In fact once your body gets used to the higher nutritional value you can survive on significantly less food. 5-10$ a day is a pretty reasonable price for eating all healthy foods.

Hmm, okay, thank you.

But I still find this hard to wrap my head around. If it is so harmful, why is it being allowed? I find it kind of hard to believe that the health of people is being put at risk just to make food taste a little better and preserve it a little longer.

Ah yes, why would the government and businesses sell anything that could be harmful. Lets ask the tobacco industry.

Oh and MSG doesn't improve the flavour of food, it makes you crave it. It's used for its addictive qualities.

Hmm, that is what I was beginning to suspect and fear, that is just twisted.

Oh well

In that case, is there any chance that you would be interested in sharing some recipes and food ideas?

At my house we just tend to make variants on normal food using natural ingredients.

You can make your own butter if you buy organic whipping cream. Though that makes it tough to make whipped cream :D

Hehe, alright, thanks man

Make an msg free pizza for instance. If you use spelt instead of wheat you'll get more flavour in the crust but you'll have more brittle dough.

In fact you can find almost all the ingredients for a pizza without msg.

Most cheeses are safe too.

If you want a real treat make spelt bread. That stuff is crazy good and unlike regular bread won't make you feel bloated, so you can cram way more down your throat. There are lots of recipes online.

Hey, cool!
I'll have to give that a try,
Though I'll have to go spelt hunting first, I don't think I have ever seen it before.

Thanks for the insight.

MSG free is the way to be! *thumbs up* :D

AH.. On that subject, I was at a chinese restaurant around here called Peking. They had a cool little option of 'removal of MSG' upon request. That was cool of them to mention.

The most ridiculously high levels of MSG I ever encountered were at a Tex-Mex restaurant somewhere around houston while I was visiting. I remember that after eating I got knocked out for about 6-7 hours! In medium doses it causes drowsiness, in larger doses..well, causes the above. NEVER AGAIN D:

mifmaf : 3

Damn, now I'm even more glad I turned my back on Maccy D's and all other fast food establishments years ago.

Out of curiosity, is this info relegated primarily to U.S. statistics or is this the case everywhere in the developed world?

Everywhere. Most developed countries have bans in place or had bans that were removed by pressure from US industries.

I'm critical about everything. Even this. I know aspartame is bad in every possible way (worse for teeth too). But this MSG... haven't even heard of it before. Anyhow, if you consider today's world situation, there is no safe food. Furthermore, in today's world there are a lot of harmful chemicals and such in the air, which can cause some poop.

Probably the best thing would be to cook your food by yourself. If that doesn't satisfy your security, one has to grow his or her own food. Then we can start to panic about the soil's heavy minerals and uncleaniness... :P

Thankfully the human body is fairly resistant to harmful chemicals. Is that evolution? o_o

Though I have to point out that I haven't suffered any drowsiness or such after any meal at a restaurant. Could it be possible that in Europe they use less of this MSG? O_o

Yup, europe doesn't use nearly as much. In fact prior to the formation of European Union standards MSG was banned in most european countries. So if you eat at a restauran in europe you're far less likely to get any MSG. Supermarket foods however are a whole other ballgame. Unless your country isn't part of the EU.

Hmm, I ate some, and then feeled unusually drowsy. And I checked the ingredients of the food; it had E621. That's the eurocode for MSG. Seems like you weren't just gullible about health facts. :) This one was, however, one of the cheaper products. I should inform about this drowsiness thing to my friends. It affects rather strongly I noticed.

*shrugs* Eh, we all die someday. I'd rather eat and enjoy my food in ignorance. To each his/her own. :)

I hear this a lot as a justification for eating unhealthy foods. The preference to enjoy food over eating healthy foods. There is a connection that many people in the western word fail to realize between food and mental health. Life is way more fun when you feel great AND eat food that tastes even better.

I do feel great, and the food I eat tastes great too. *smiles* I understand where you're coming from, and I respect your personal choices, but on the same thought I like my personal choices to be respected too.

You logic cannot combat the fact that MSG is tasty. The ignorant can never be defeated.

Food tastes better without it.

Monosodium glutatamate made me the man I am today. *Coughs up a lung.* Neeed braaaains.

Weeelll.. This would explain a few things. -.o

This information is quite helpfull, I thank you for sharing it. :3

However. I live in the southeastern states, Redneck-Ville USA. Sitting here the only place I could think of that openly stated "No MSG" was a chinese take out in the nearby grocery store. Unfortunatly though that got closed down a few months back.

What sorta choices would someone like me have? I don't have any cooking skills, and I heavilly regret to say that I pretty much grew up on this fast food shit. Which from what you'r telling me is probably accountable for my memory and the condition my body is in. It seems that just changing around the places where I eat won't work the way I expected. Im very interested in knowing what things i could do different. I don't really feel like being the stereotypical furre with a fat slob of a player for the rest of my life.

There are certain vegetables that are less exotic but also less popular that you can substitute for several meals.

I recommend kale the most, the harder and greener the better. It's best in a spicy salad, onions, balsamic vinegar and other assorted veggies all finely chopped.

Unlike regular salad this will fill you up, and keep you full for a while. Kale is also great for road trips as a snack. Just eat a leaf and you can go for 6 or more hours without any hunger.

Heres the thing. While being the typical overweight american. Im also a typical meat-eating american. I'v tried eating the leafy greens of various kinds before so I could get used to them, but it just never really worked.

if you do a cleanse your body will be able to demand leafy greens, and you won't feel satisfied until you get them.

This clensing diet intrigues me. I should like to know what it consists of so I can purify my system as well.

Psyllium and fiber drinks, lots of chopped garlic, cold pressed olive oil (cleans the liver, you'll get little black chunks in your stool but feel really bad until they come out).

Also I'm not eating, cooked oils, butter, corn, wheat, yeast, sugar (other than fruits), or dairy products.

Gah... That's far more complicated than I had imagined. Alot of my diet consists of what you dont eat. I can probably manage what you do eat, though.

In my defence, rarely do I eat fast food, hence my hightened mental state<3

MAN! That's just messed up! X(

I've heard just as much bad stuff about the adverse health effects of taurine. P.S. ox testicles

I'll believe what I hear about MSG other than "It's bad for you" (like how aspartame is) when someone who's not a crackpot manages to get anywhere with a class-action suit. Until then, I'll take most of what people say about it's effects as quackery. The FDA's purpose is to watch out on our (the consumers') behalf. To imply corruption to the core is a conspiracy theory and would make them comprimisible in other ways that would be noticable.

If you want a conspiracy theory, guess who lobbied to get aspartame approved by the FDA. Donald Rumsfeld.

The Bush administration also repealed nearly all the requirements for labelling something organic. Now they can use pesticides, antibiotics and steroids :D

Taurine isn't ox testicles as far as i know. It's a byproduct of goat cheese manufacture as well as a few other things. Taurine does have associated health risks, but only if you have a serious heart condition or a couple other major medical issues. Overdosing on taurine is also very difficult given just how much constitutes a single dose. It's used in the treatment of alzheimers and many disorders associated with msg.

I also forgot to mention that msg can cause vision damage.

organic food's a scam for suckers, anyway. More people get sick eating bad organic food cause they thought it was healthier for them than they do from the chemicals most of us probably take in on a regular basis, whether we like it or not. If they can pay for the luxury of high-quality organic foods, they can waste their money to remove just one more potential thing that might kill us someday from their lives for all I care. It don't matter to me; but they ARE pretty much wasting their money on half-baked (and easily personally comprimisible) ideals.

Taurine was originally extracted from ox testicles, hence its name, but it is a protein-based chemical nonetheless. Let's not even get started on the potential hazards of introducing concentrated foreign proteins (and their by-products, hormones and whatever) into one's body. Diseases associated with MSG doesn't necessisarily mean "caused by MSG", big difference. Contributed to those diseases? Maybe. I won't argue against that, but only because science is never sure on anything. Eating meat in general could be worse for us than standard amounts of MSG or pure taurine alone and we may never know it without a 20 year study and a huge ass sampling pool.

Both MSG and Aspartame have been accused of contributing to vision damage. The case study for the claim that MSG causes vision loss was flawed in the same way the study that LSD puts holes in your brain -- the dose was much higher than anyone would ever reasonably ingest. 20% of the test subjects' diets (in this case, rats, small creatures) were pure MSG. The only difference in this study between the one where MSG was injected into the eye was that this proved MSG can still make its way into your eye fluids before being broken down by the body. It doesn't prove by any stretch of the imagination how MUCH MSG is required. The scientists' ascertation was that normal amounts we typically injest would be synthesized into something else before any permanent or accumulating damage could occur. (it is, after all, an amino acid -- an organic chemical. Just like taurine)

Aspartame I trust much less than MSG because of how complex a molecule it is, and how it breaks down in the body. Though, no conclusive study has shown it to be accumulatively toxic in the doses we ingest it at.

p.s. I wouldn't put ANYTHING past ol' rummy. Many people lobby the FDA to fast track their stuff for approval, but I think that just bumps their stuff up in line, not comprimises the review process itself.

I hate Burgers... if I have to eat at McDonalds I only eat French Fries.

But that's not because I am afraid of MSG. I just don't like their food.

actually, if I remember correctly, french fries are , apart from the desserts, the most filled products with that chemical

As I said in my post. I'm not afraid of that stuff. I just don't like their Burgers.

And for the once a year I eat there I think I can take it.

Why do all the things in life that taste good kill you? ;_;
*munches on some brocolli and wonders when a report will come out stating even it will give him cancer*

But the best tasting stuff doesn't kill you :P

Maybe... After the sensitivity in your taste buds returns. hehe.

I just want to interject that this has been one of the most informative and enteretaining journals I've read in awhile.

Thanks for stirring the pot of controversy Mif Maf.

Someone else who thinks the same thing I do. I switched off synth sugars (Anything with Fructose Corn Syrup/High Fructose Corn Syrups) and now make sure what I buy either has Sugar or Honey in it.

I've been dropping weight rapidly since. I used to eat fast food way too much, went from this beautiful 170lb frame to this horrid 257lb frame. The moment I switched my diet off of MSG, Nasty Sugars, and not quite buying Organic, but just avoiding 90% of fast food chains.. I've dropped to 216lbs in less than 2 months.. that's a difference of 41lbs..

And the US complains Americans are getting obese rapidly.. it's because the US doesn't know what's good for their people. Thank you FDA for being the honest kind hearted group of people that just like you and everyone else that is made of flesh and blood, believes in doing what is best for their kind! ^_^

This is all very depressing if it's true. It seems odd that the first place I hear about it is here though. I try to avoid lots of msg anyway because it gives me headaches in large amounts, but I still feel skeptical that theres a food conspiracy. I'll have to look more into it elsewhere.

I wouldn't consider it a conspiracy. I see it more as monumental greed. If someone stands to profit from it then you can be sure that they will and will do what it takes to maintain that profit.

Wow. Interesting info.... Looks like I'll be eating a lot more often at my local Thai restaraunt that is certified for no MSG in it's entire menu. :)

"it causes brain damage, apathy, lethargy, depression and obesity." "This substance is one of the most common "flavoring ingredients" in north america"

Sweet, so... we americans have a valid excuse for being fat, stupid, sad, lazy and uncaring now? ;P

All kidding aside, I respect your respect of good health... I wish I could avoid MSG personally, but.. I don't know if that's really an option, since they don't exactly label foods as 'MSG Free' at resturaunts or supermarkets, and I don't think I can get the ingredients (or the cooking ability) to make those all-natural health foods.

It seems like the better choice would be to push for a ban, like Australia... but let's face it, the chances of that happening are slim. About as slim as tobacco being banned too, I imagine. It's the whole Democracy thing, you know. We've been given the power.... to screw ourselves over.

The problem is that it wasn't approved democratically. At the time of the US ban there was public outcry over its use. It was snuck back into our food covertly due to food lobbyists.

So.. then.. we need a big legal case to sue the butts off of all of these covert MSG-in-food-putters, then, to the point that they give up... or at the least, feel our wrath? :3

Good luck with that, because legal cases have been brought against foods, high fructose corn syrup specifically. The lobbyists succeeded in passing an act that prohibits anyone from saying anything negative about any food products.

This only applies to a few states but they're trying to expand it even now. Yes, it's a breach of the first amendment and they realize that. However they just have to keep you in court long enough to leech away all your money and force you to drop the case.

This exact incident happened to Oprah Winfrey when she bad mouthed corn syrup. She was in court for 5 or so years. Eventually she won, but only managed to get her court costs back.

It's kind of sad. Growing up I always saw cartoons and comics where, if some dastardly villain was poisoning the town's food supplies, superheroes would just bust in and save the day... but here in the real world? Well, I'm fairly certain that vigilante crime-fighting is highly illegal, and the evil villains have the full support of the law. =/

I'm gonna take this post with a fist-sized grain of salt and some second opinions.

I can't find any sources that back you up on MSG being banned in the '60s. AFAICT, it got the FDA "GRAS" label in '58 and has remained that way since, with the first "MSG = BAD... MAYBE" report showing up in '68.

Also, yes, there is evidence it causes brain damage... in neonatal mice, with massive dosages (Like, >1g / kg bodymass, where a typical human meal might have 0.5g MSG in it). Additionally, the human central nervous system (including that of infants) is apparently much less susceptable to MSG than that of neonatal mice.

The 1978-1980 FASEB report stated that there is no evidence that ingested MSG / glutamate affects human neurochemistry... Which also kinda throws the brakes on the ADD/ADHD claims. Same with Alzheimers, apparently.

Can't find anything that backs up your claim of it causing asthma (found stuff that says it has no effect on asthma, actually), allergies (some people ARE allergic to it, though!), thyroid damage, SIDS, liver damage, impotence...

Nothing like a controversy to get yourself tons of comments tho! :P

I'm not sure exactly when the msg ban took place, or if it was indeed a fullscale or just in baby food. However you do raise a good counter argument.

Here's a link with quite a bit of info and references:
http://www.truthinlabeling.com/HowD.....MSGcauses.html

My sister has been getting the rest of the information from her university's online library. I'd post the link but unless you're a student there you can't log in :(

MSG was never actually banned in baby food by the FDA... The manufacturers pulled it voluntarily, probably to avoid a huge PR nightmare in the aftermath of Olney's "OMGBRAINLESIONS" work (see: huge doses, baby mice), which has since been largely discredited.

Additionally, that truthinlabelling site has some, well... warning signs... that, to me, generally indicate unreliability.
-Accusations of widespread conspiracy/collusion
-"Things 'the glutes' don't want you to know" -"monosodium glutamate" appearing in quotes like that, pretty much all the time.
-Webmaster has an AOL email address
-Gaudy, poorly formatted webpage

To name a few.

I realize this is kind of an 'ad hominem' attack, but I just thought I'd mention it...

Make that, the human CNS is UNsusceptable to ingested MSG. Apparently the brain generates all the glutamate it needs on its own, and ingested glutamate is kept entirely seperate from brain-glutamate.

Do you have a link for that info, I'd like to know the process involved as well. From what I had understood the brain doesn't successfully absorb the MSG anyway but instead the MSG effectively absorbs the glutamates from the brain itself. Owing to the the sodium compound.

Here's a few pages:
http://www.msgfacts.com/safety/msgsafety15.html
http://allergies.about.com/library/.....icmsgmyth8.htm
http://ific.org/foodinsight/2000/ma.....amatefi200.cfm


Basically quite a bit of more recent research has shown that digested MSG has no discernable effect on human brains, even in relatively large doses.

That might not have been exactly what you were looking for, sorry...

Also, admittedly, several of the people listed there are basically decried as tools of the industry by that Truth In Labelling site. Make of that what you will.

I would be wary of any group called "The Glutamate Association" especially given that they're located in Washington DC. They are a lobbying group after all :P

My sister's research is citing studies as recent as 2005. I'll try and get you some copies of the studies if you want.

You should always keep in mind not only what the information is but also who provided it and who funded it.

hmm this is making me wonder what the stuff would do in a person like myself. Seeing I was born with this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shwach.....amond_syndrome (and lucky to be alive if you happen to read that) my body in itself can't digest or process most if not all things put into it without outside help. Your cleansing process if I tried it could very well kill me. I am happy to say though I probably wouldn't do that anyway, never in my life have I been over 200 lbs in weight (plus it took me 15 years to break a 100). There were times in my life when I was practically told to eat nothing but junk food if only as an attempt to get my weight up. Of course it could as you say with things about MSG but to me most foods taste bland to begin with the only exception being spicy stuff and there something that might be a mild one alarm chili feels to me like it is a 3 alarm or higher. So am not sure if that is related or not.

Spicy food is good for you, the spicier the better.

The purpose of the cleanse is not to lose weight, it's done in order to remove buildup in the liver, fight infection and improve digestion.

Each of the 3 parts can be done separately. For instance the psyllium mixture isn't actually absorbed by the body, instead it physically coats the intestine and pulls out any buildup as it passes.

The cold pressed olive oil part is for the liver and it gets almost directly absorbed by it and it displaces the stuff that was in there first. The oil itself is then digested and passed easily.

The garlic (and black walnut husks) is for fighting infections and parasites. Both are easily absorbed by the body. Garlic can even be absorbed through the skin.

I did a cleanse the first time in order to try and put on weight myself. It has succeeded too. I've put on 10lbs. I was a bit underweight for a while (6 years) and wanted to get up to the bottom rung of my optimal weight :P

Of course before you try any of this stuff consult your doctor :)

I eat others' hopes and dreams. As far as I can tell, none of those contain MSG. A lot of protein, but no MSG.

In all seriousness, though, a lot of people do live off of fast food. MSG or no MSG, I think we all can relate to the sluggish, stupefying wave that washes over you after you consume four greasy patties parted only with processed cheese and soda. Let's not get all into chemicals and an atomic breakdown of what we're eating, MifMaf; let's encourage people to learn how to cook first, THEN worry about things like this.

Dude, dreams are made of mallomar fluff and you know it. Protein....

I did not know that. *sighs* It is very, very difficult to eat well, however, when you're in college without a car. A lot of my meals are prepackaged microwavable foods, or cafeteria food, that's quite... special in it's own right. I hope someday to eat healthier, but for now, it's hard to do so and not starve ;__;

I had been made aware of addictive substances in food, but not specifically msg.

In my own opinion, there is just too much self interest in the government that is supposed to be 'for the people'. Yes, there are good ones, but many more bad ones I fear, and basically all the FDA needs is money to approve something in foods as long as the majority of people don't know it's bad for them.

P.S. one last thing! Some people are more sensitive to MSG than others, kinda like how I'm sensitive to whatever's in most fish. Makes me kinda sick most of the time unless it's tunafish in a can or that fried crap long john silvers uses, or surimi (which is stripped of most of its natural fishiness anyway). I can imagine allergic reaction to artificial food additives can cause quite a scare with some people.

For the record, when I was small I also had an accute reaction to a food additive, some preservative made my pacemaker flip out ! Never happened from a food product again, however, I was diagnosed later with a kind of tachycardia. I'm not gonna blame the additive though I'm sure some people would jump to that conclusion with their hate of unknown chemicals "THEY" tell you is safe 8)

not like you'd ever do that, mifmaf! I think you're cool :O

You are correct some people are in fact more sensitive to MSG than others. That percentage however is 25%. That's a lot of people that cant tolerate it.

a quick google seems to rebut this by implying that there's not that many people who even HAVE allergies in the US:

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:DDOywQ8wddoJ:www.aaaai.org/media/resources/media_kit/allergy_statistics.stm+allergies+effects+percent+of+the+population&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1&client=firefox-a

but ehhh. I'm just providing debate points cause I want to make sure my skepticism doesn't come off as uninformed.

I don't believe MSG reactions are considered allergies. However In looking at your link, the very second line states that more than 20% of americans have allergies.

So either way the point still stands, though it could be 23% instead of 25%

Naw. It can't be the PRIMARY ingredient, 'coz it's a crystal. Maybe the primary flavoring or additive tho'! Most stuffs' primary ingredient is something boring like beef, potatoes, water, corn, corn syrup, sugar, flour...

MSG's most commonly named just that, spelled out, on the label - "Monosodium Glutamate" - although if you're buying it pure, it's generally billed as a "flavor enhancer" or "salt substitute" (Look for non-salt things in the salt aisle that still look like white crystals.)

MSG does have a distinctive flavor - it's an artificial source of a flavor discovered by the japanese, called "umami" or "meaty". It's used so widely by the food industry because they found out that they can add a shred of actual meat, and a load of MSG, and most people will think it tastes like that meat. Because most people don't know about the flavor. But sour-cream flavored chips or "oriental" flavored ramen are among the worst abusers of this stuff.

Or, actually, you could always get ahold of a small amount of MSG and try a few crystals on a fingertip, it's far less than you'd actually consume in a single packet of ramen or a serving of chips.

Oddly, though, MSG is itself all-natural, it's produced by fermenting seaweed. (Then again, so is snake venom, an' we don't eat that!)

Most meats or protein-containing foods contain Glutamate, or so suggests Wikipedia. :p

One of the things that HAS been linked to MSG, and admitted by the FDA, is that it's associated with onset of migraines. If you have migraines, hopefully you already know that, but try to cut out the MSG anyways. Sadly, no-one's really made a conclusive study linking it, so they've not been able to describe any numbers associated. They did put out a statement that says something along the lines of "MSG may cause migraines in an unknown percentage of the population" since it has been conclusively linked, just not properly measured.

Personally for me, anyways - there's things doin' me greater damage in my diet to worry about (and I think recently I've accidentally cut out most of the MSG in my diet, by changing where and what I eat for other reasons. o.O)

(PS: Sorry about the long post, I just figured it was better to try to point out what I've read about MSG, rather than try to argue)

*poke* Now do one about the Omega3/6 ratio! I've been hoping to see someone point out that Americans' ratio of this is about 10-20 times as high on the 6 side as has been shown to be healthy.

All 'coz we use sooo much soy/corn/canola oil in our cooking. :P

See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega-3_fatty_acid :}

I've been lobbied against by friends before to change to change my eating habbits...And they failed, not miserably mind you, but they did open my mind some.

From what I've read, it seems the danger of MSG is only present if you're applying the stuff directly to the 'vulnerable' parts of your body and consuming increadible amounts of the stuff.

Now, to counter the "The government looks out for the people" arguement, Tobacco is legal, alcohol is legal...Need I say more?

And to add my own little statement:

I was put on this ball of dirt and spit with fangs, and I'll be damned if I have to be a vegitarian to survive!

I've never liked the idea of "safe amounts"

How much poison are you willing to eat for the sake of someone else's profits?

You should only consume a safe amount of water. :p

Someone also once pointed out to me that the liver's filter function consists entirely of dying and regrowing. And only when it's overwhelmed to the point that it scars or fails to grow back is its function really impeded.

Even a liver transplant is usually just a section of a liver, and it grows the rest of itself on its own.

Things like painkillers and such that can cause this damage do indeed have safe amounts - the amounts where the liver is operating normally, and not being forced to regrow itself too fast for it to handle.

As for other body functions, I dunno. c.c

LOL yeah maybe Mifmaf should stop drinking water as too much of it can flush your electrolytes and kill you.

I dunno, how much is one person willing to smoke even though they smell, are dying noticably and loose a shitload of money over it.

I don't smoke mind you, but honestly, if all you do is worry, you're not really enjoying yourself.

Life is only so long, live it while you can, and if you make it better for the next generation? All the better.

I say Boycott Citgo instead because Venezuela hates us.
As for Poison... i take Azathioprine to help save my organs from getting eaten up. hooray for sulfur based anti-proliferative immunosuppressants :D (toxic in high amounts)
Also, i love Equal and Aspartame, yum yum. only toxic if eaten in tremendously mass quantities(turns into Methanol, but the human body makes more of it naturally anyway).
so.... yeah, um.. oxygen is poison too.
MSG to me is like "Super salt" it intensifies that aspect of flavor.
(i hate playing devil's advocate like this, but... oh well, someone has to. nothing personal)

If you'd like to know why Venezuela hates the US watch the documentary "The Revolution will not be Televized" . It was filmed by a documentary crew in venezuela that was just doing a film on the country. However the US staged a coup while they were there. The Film crew is actually in the presidential compound while they are under siege.

They also compare and contrast the actual events with what is being shown on tv at the same time.

Aspartame can actually kill you if you take it in conjunction with certain weight gain powders associated with body building. I can't remember the name of the documentary in which this was featured but a woman is serving 10+ years in prison (can't remember how long exactly, but a long time) for the murder of her husband. However the murder weapon was supposedly a bottle of bleach the prosecutor claims she poisoned him with. However the bleach just is full and unopened. Her husband had been working out extensively and drinking nothing but sports drinks while taking weight gain powder. He suffered a massive stroke and died. She's serving time to protect aspartame from being connected to his death.

If you want to test your super salt theory, don't eat any msg for 3 days, tell me how your cravings go.

Anybody see "Super Size Me?" I keep forgetting to order that movie.

My sister used to work in the medicinal biogenetics industry, and they had all kinds food industry magazines at work, showing the latest advances in artificial edibles. Her favorite was the artificial blueberries they put in muffins and kids' cereals, which don't actually contain anything extracted from fruit. It's all syntetic compounds just shaped and flavored like blueberries. How nasty. Since she started that job, she stopped buying almost all packaged foods. Factoids from magazines and web sites is one thing, but if you actually work in the industry, you get a very intimate view of the situation.

I've been living on natural food for so long, I can not only taste MSG, high fructose corny syrup and aspertime individually, but they all have a different texture. I hate that slimy feeling I get in my mouth when eating that stuff. Wax is a major ingredient in a lot of stuff, too, such as cheap chocolate.

I'm a big yogurt fan, and it really ticks me off that the name brand yogurts all have corn syrup in them. It pretty much defeats the purpose of eating yogurt, and man, do they taste terrible! I don't *want* smooth and creamy -- I want chunky yogurt, the way it should be. Thankfully, the generic store brand I eat actually is yogurt. Funny how the "cheap stuff" is free of all the garbage, or at least most of it.

Avoid anything with a "fluffy" texture. It's basicly hydrongenated fats, or oil that's been modified to be solid at room temperature. The main ingredient in mayonaise is also oil (I believe mayo is more than 50% oil by volume).

There's a guy at work who eats McDonalds almost every day, and he's thin as a rail. He used to eat THREE burgers during lunch, but has since "downgraded" to a Big Mac. I'd like to know what his LDL is. Just because you're thin doesn't mean you're healthy.

Then again, I have a once-a-month craving for Taco Bell. Also, preservatives are not ALWAYS bad for you. Despite the advances in artificial ingredients, overall life expectancy does keep increasing, and it's certainly not because doctors are more available these days.

Some natural preservatives can actually improve your health. Lemon juice, alcohol, salt, spicy stuff like chili, vinegar and curry.

Small amounts act as preservatives in your body too and can be used to balance your Ph and kill bacteria.

It's good that you're eating healthy foods, keep it up :D.

Soda made with actual sugar (I think they use fruit sugar - fructose) tastes a lot better than regular soda! Then when you go back and try regular sodas, they taste all gooey and corn-ey and ick. :P
<3 Wholefoods 365-brand sodas. n.n

And I think that most flavors in excess can be psychologically addictive. After all - the only reason the US is so into artificial sweeteners is because we're hooked on sugar-flavor. o.O

Salt and Umami and Sour have their addictive strengths too, although I'm not sure I've ever heard of anyone hooked on bitter who wasn't also doing it for alcohol or caffeine purposes. :P

That's really just speculation though. Throughout our lives our taste buds change to prefer certain flavours. As we age we gradually begin to prefer bitter foods. The actual pattern of preference relative to age moves from the front of the tongue to the back, so we start with sweet, move to sour and end in bitter. However this natural process has been side tracked by an overwhelming amount of sugars in our diets.

I don't quite trust the idea of a new flavour being discovered. Especially given that it's a combination of sweet and bitter and only appears in an already controversial substance.

People don't get addicted to flavours, but they will form preferences. People do however get addicted to MSG. In fact cigarettes are laced with it. This causes that immediate need for a second cigarette and short term addiction. This is also the reason that people who try to quit smoking tend to gain a lot of weight. They do so by eating junk foods to address their MSG addiction.

Well, the taste was defined, it was the receptors that were discovered - http://www.jneurosci.org/cgi/conten.....hort/26/8/2227 :p

Wikipedia describes the taste as making foods "taste fuller or just better", but I don't agree - the same description was originally applied to salt, as a "flavor enhancer". Nowadays, we just call things with more salt flavor "saltier". Since glutamates tend to occur naturally in meat and cheeses, maybe someday it'll be named as foods tasting "meatier" or "umamier" or "savorier" or something o.o;

Being able to describe it is the first step. :p

I seriously doubt the word "umami" will catch on, just 'coz it's pronounced "Ooh mommy!" O.o

Bah. Real flavors are tasted with our noses.

Curiously, I've never really had a craving for sweet stuff at any point in my life. I've always loved sour/tangy foods.

Im not entierly shure what MSG is but there is tons of fabricated bullshit in food today, liek a burger i cant eat at mcdonalds for it tase as they deep fried it totaly just dam greesy.

meh, the repeated banning and un-banning of MSG just illustrates how forgetful people are

soon they'll start thinking "hey, mercury is a liquid! Let's try swimming in it!"

and forget that it was declared highly poisonous years ago...

Mercury sulphide is the poisonous kind. Elemental mercury is actually quite safe. In fact our brain needs a small amount of mercury to function.

The ban was universal though.

ah ^V^

kinda like how the FDA found out a certain (and popular at some point) species of almond had a large protein molecule that contained cyanide

so the FDA banned that species of almond... even though the molecule in question kills cancer yet is harmless to healthy cells

http://educate-yourself.org/pnl/bea.....r02nov05.shtml

take note of the 2nd half of the document... in particular the last few paragraphs

It's getting harder and harder to eat things that won't kill me. I avoid MSG, trans fats, aspartame, and artificial sugars whenever I can.
I was even trying to inform a friend about aspartame, and it's effects, because he chews a lot of gum, and drinks far too much of those 'energy drinks' which don't really help, and taste horrible anyway. Not to mention they are loaded with chemicals I can't even pronounce.
I tried telling him that even if it was a small amount of aspartame for each piece of gum, that small amount compounds to a lot more than you think. But he wouldn't listen, and still continues to eat things with aspartame in it.
I even went as far as saying "This glass of water has one drop of hydrochloric acid. But don't worry, it's just a small amount. Drink up!" And that still didn't deter him. I guess some people just want to speed up their demise.

I won't believe it until they perform a test involving something other than feeding large amounts of the stuff to young rats.

I eat at McDonald's and other fast food places about once a month or less, and can't stand those so-called "organic" foods {I hate most vegetables to begin with}. So far, there's nothing wrong with my body--admittedly, my vision is somewhat failing lately, and I may need glasses soon, but both of my parents need glasses, so it's obviously genetic. I also have Asperger's, which is usually hereditary or sometimes caused by trauma before birth.

Either way, I choose to just be happy and enjoy life. I hear so many reports of "this is bad for you" and "avoid this at all costs" and "this gives you such-and-such a disease" that I just don't care anymore. I don't wanna be paranoid about everything I eat. I just eat things in moderation, stay active and hope for the best.

I do agree, though, that the government is run by weasel bastards who are out to kill the lower-class by having excessive preservatives put into certain cheap foods. That's why my parents don't buy stuff that could probably still be edible 20 years from now. A McDonald's burger at least spoils after a couple of days.

I direct you to this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEM0T1Ar5Qo

So wrong.

There's a simple solution to that one: just don't order fries at McDonald's.

MSG is found naturally in meat, cheese, mushrooms, and other protein-rich foods.

As for it causing all of these bad thing... I'd like to see your sources. Short of that, consuming 10% of anyone's bodyweight of a chemical every day is enough to cause some really, really bad things, and that's what the scare around some artificial sweetners has been. The tests were using obscene quantaties, which is obviously going to lead to problems of some sort or another.

To that end, I consider myself a bit of a health nut as well. I used to be on a no fast food diet, but getting 30 minutes to eat lunch at work makes it a bit hard to stick to that regiment. At least Wendy's serves baked potatoes...

Oh yeah, partially hyrdogenated fats and high fructose corn syrup are the devil, but it's so hard to find stuff that doesn't use them! The first isn't broken down well in digestion and frequently gets stored. High fructose corn syrup is evil because it provides the sweetness but is less filling than an equal amount of sugar, which in turn leads people to eat more. (And thus buy more!) And this makes people even more obese.

I'm hoping with the introduction of corn-made ethanol, corn syrup will become more expensive and food manufacturers will return to sugar for sweetening things.