I don't know what "feminist" really means anymore. Because -- in the first, second, third and likely up to 3-digits places -- of actions of those who call themselves feminists the loudest.

It's kinda like PETA... Or the animal farm...

Now just everyone being equal, for real, with no conditions, no preferential treatment, "affirmative actions", etc... Would be a nice world...

As I say, life would have been much easier if everyone was strictly bi :)

I honestly don't have an idea what size 8 is, nor "plus size" :) Different country :)

The way it is in the comics/games industry is already changing, but it is being ridiculous there, too... (The pressure/complaints they are getting, that is.)

And well, I don't know most names you mention, either... I can judge only by the way every Western news outlet is worshipping Pussy Riot and Femen not bothering to mention that if they did some of the same shit there, they'd look at double-digits prison terms... And in case of Voyna (essentially, the same crowd Pussy Riot is part of -- they were involved is some of the actions under that name, too), having police officers shooting them put on paid administrative leave.

... I thought they are promoting implants, not mastectomy... Though I guess money can be made either way...

On the flip side, you get the conservative media using fringe feminists as a nice, exciting headline on "those crazy liberals", which doesn't help the situation much either. As conservative as I am, I really would like everyone to stop buying into the sensationalism angle. I can't watch FOX News anymore. I just don't see how big trials halfway across the country have anything to do with me... but it seems to have plenty to do with ratings.

From the several comments I read in that journal, it seems that they are already missing the point. No surprises there really.

This is the real world. Gotta just learn to deal with it.

I... i can't even... the callousness of this statment is beneath you, tiger.

It's not that I am being insensitive or indifferent Fox, quite the contrary. It's more of a reality check that has hit home pretty hard, me personally and no matter how hard I've tried, I can't deny the fact(s). While it does hurt, I can't really just feel sorry for myself 24/7 so I just try to suck it up and get on with my life.

Please do not take this the wrong way. I'm just the "stereotypical-grumpy-old-kitty-cat-who-probably-just-needs-some-loving-but-can't-get-any" kinda guy.

I was gonna post but it's this comment that sums up my feelings. Even though the offhanded "ew vagina" comments are really at worst mildly annoying, when you get right down to it, the whole mentality of "your fault if you're offended" is really what I object to.

Is that supposed to be our answer to everything? Shrug our shoulders, accept it as inevitable and move on?

No Alpha, that's not what I meant but life's not fair. You see, there will always be persons out there who will not accept the things that you do and you can either wallow in self pity or just accept it and move on. I admit that it's never easy but at the same time feeling sorry for myself isn't gonna change anything.

And the half-assed defense that "straight people say 'ew' over gay porn" is just a lame cop out. (I've never seen it once on FA. Never, not once, in five+ years. DA, sometimes but never FA.)

For the record I used to be one of those straight people who said 'ew' over gay porn, now I'm a straight person who ignores gay porn.

Well you get the bad apples of every group who ruin it for everyone else. I generally don't care if someone is a feminist or not, the only time I could imagine it getting a reaction out of me is if I hold the door open for a woman and get berated for it, however, that would apply to either gender. I find it rather enjoyable that my girlfriend would just as soon tell me to take a hike if I didn't treat her as an equal as give me a hug for surprising her with a dinner.

The issue, at its core, is what comes down to a pandemic laziness, socially, that insists on devolving everything to black and white, two camps, "us-versus-them". You cannot say "liberal" without meaning "Democrat", "conservative" without meaning "Republican", there are now only "straight people" and "gay people". It you have a cause, or position, you must represent that to the fullest, absolute extreme; you can't be vegetarian, you have to be vegan. If you're gay, the female form has to repulse you. If you're a feminist, you have to be a sociopathic misanthrope.
It also means that if you aren't "one of us", then you *must* be "one of them", so if you don't agree, completely, utterly and fully with that extreme position, you're "one of the enemy".
There's no room for being reasonable; everyone's a zealot, or a heretic, to be embraced, or shunned. The sane people are collateral damage, and ultimately the losers, in a pointless conflict we don't even want to be part of.

My god I wish I could fave this post. <3

This. You're post sums up much of the reason why discussing politics feels so futile these days. Both sides of the spectrum will latch onto one or two extremists on the other side and smear the whole of the 'other' as being like those extremist outliers. The loudest people are assumed to represent the crowd, which is pretty dangerous quite frankly, especially when people start shouting out "well there ought to be a law about that."

YES

If this was Rerddit I'd upvote this. So much.

The sad part is you probably summed up "politics" just about anywhere in the world. :(

Late reply and question, but is this due to people in the middle also tending to be silent? or ignored? And the extreme ends are the ones who are heard the most?

I'm just throwing this out there... not attached to this idea.

I'm inclined to say that the middle is drowned-out by the extremes. By their nature the "reasonable" people are disinclined to rant and scream, they don't want anything that they feel warrants ranting and screaming. So the voices that are heard are the loud ones, and not necessarily the larger number of the reasonable.
It's the problem with modern "democratic" society, both socially and politically; it's no longer representative in the classical sense (one person, one vote/voice), instead it's "by group", and whichever group is the loudest/has the best PR/the most money to spend on advertizing/has the most "generic" position (disaffecting the least number of people), becomes the prevailing position.

If you had said this a few weeks ago I would of been scratching my head and wondering what the hell you were talking about. However, seeing some of the comments on, of all things, an upload by an extremely talented artist who is popular for her gay themed arts. It had a female in the rendering for a change, accompanied by a rather thought provoking subject for a story. I was kind of shocked (and I mean that seriously) at how many people got pissed off over the artists choice in gender. Really bizarre in my mind, because a fandom as peculiar as furry-dom would need a lot of tolerance to function properly.

That is the price we pay for having freedom of expression.
And that is the way it should be.

i THANKFULLY have never had comments like this on my page but i sadly know many friends who do get them and each time i found it shocking and honestly the stuff of parody to come across such a thing as heterophobia. I didn't even know such a think existed untill i came to this fandom. Its almost a case study of "some those who were bullied become bullies themselves at the first opportunity to prevent being bullied in the future." thats honestly the only explaination i can come up with for such behaviour. And in saying that I find it sad.

expounding on Wolfkidd's statement, I give you my shades of grey:(not to be confused with 50 shades :p )

Im a catholic who supports gay marrige, love and embrace ALL my friends for who and what they are. I'm straight and religious but i also find other theologies facinating to learn of and appreciate and never beleive/treat those theolgies as wrong, im intrested in the workings of science and study the effects of helpful and harmful plants as a hobby and im a proud non-fringe feminist that believes in Gender equality.

I wanted to give you a worthy reply out of politeness but you've summed up everything so well.

YAAAY hug! sorry i always kinda brace myself for a drag-out debate when i say where i stand on religion and social graces. its a breath of fresh air when I don't have to constantly defend my position of just trying to be a NICE PERSON. :P

Oh, no fear. <hugs back> Being a decent human being should never be up for debate.

When you get right down to it, a lot of people are just stupid and shortsighted. They don't put much thought into what they say, and neither should you.

Can we not just demand...
One million dollars!

I confess, as a conservative, the word "feminist" has become something of a dirty word in my mind. Blame it on listening to so many pro-Republican pundits on the radio and TV. I bought into the "us-vs-them" mentality when I was only a few years younger, and I feel embarrassed to admit it now. There's still shades of that in me, but I think it's only 'cause I still feel like some extremists would happily blame me for all the trouble in the world, just because I'm white, Christian, and conservative (though leaning libertarian, much to my father's chagrin). It gets really tiresome when the people who claim they're for "equality" and against "bigotry" seem to think it only applies to people who aren't me. It seems like some people think that because I was born a white male, and then raised in a Christian household, that this somehow makes me a bad guy by default. As if my mere existence somehow steals food from orphans in Africa, or causes gay men physical injury.

When you get that kinda stuff from one group, or at least the loudest, most extreme members of it, it's hard not to get a little biased yourself. I'm fine with re-defining "feminist" in my mind to something milder. I figure we're all human, loved by God, even if we're all doing things he doesn't like (though I'm not going to turn this into a theological argument if I can help it), and knowing there's a spiritual war on kinda gives one a sense of camaraderie for your own kind. We've got to at least try to get along, or we'll be easy prey for the devil. Even if you don't believe in the war, I think at least acting like it somewhat can help us see everyone in the world as a potential ally... and strike a blow against the "us-vs-them" mentality, at least when it comes to our own species.

In any case, I have no problem with gender equality, though we might disagree on how, exactly, that should be realized. The real problem I have is with "feminists" who think women are "gender traitors" if they stay in the house and homeschool their children. If both men and women can't choose whether to have a career or stay home with their kids (or try some combination there-of), then where's the equality? I say let the married couples decide for themselves how to run their family, and they can suffer the consequences if they choose poorly. They shouldn't be harassed because some nit-wit woman with a hate-on for men thinks no woman should be "forced" to be a Susie Homemaker.

Seriously. There's gotta be some sanity left around here. I'm pretty sure we didn't eat it all.

Well said, its the extreemists that give anything a bad name. I recently got into it with someone who made a comment that was a thinly veiled "Rich people are evil." sentiment, and i felt the need to correct him. My father is a 1%er who worked up from being a line technician at a car dealership to a general manager and part owner of a toyota dealer, he's had various jobs as a GM and his recent part-ownership has come from years and years working to get to that position, hes a republican and often laments jokingly that his only child is a libertarian/independant. He is white, he is christian, and he is what many would consider a 1%er. and most people who know him know him to be the most humble and kind person. He's human, he likes to buy himself and his family nice things and enjoys a comfortable life in a nice house.

However because he is a 1%er the thought that he worked and had ambition and climbed his way to the top doesn't matter to anyone, just that by being "rich" he is by default, evil and thus easily corruptible.

i am my father's daughter, I make FAR less than my father, i don't ask for handouts and i never ask my father for money because I manage what i earn well enough that i never have to. I'm an artist that supports herself 100% on art commissions. I do know that if i NEEDED money i would ask for a loan, not a handout, from my parents and immediately pay it back as soon as i was able, even though they could afford to just give me whatever i needed without repayment, doesn't mean mine or my father's mind works in such a fashion.

My father is a good man who raised me to be independant and live smart on the finances i had, its how HE got to where he is today and i have no doubt in my mind that if i continue to work hard one day i will be as sucessful as him.

when you grow up in privilage people tend to want to drag you down to thier level. I've actually had several instances where i put off buying a printer because i didn't have it in the budget and when asked some of my friends would say. "yeah but isn't your father rich? Can't he just get you a printer?" and i look at them like they're from another planet. I want to earn my things, just because i grew up in privilage doesn't mean im evil or that If i ask, everything i want will be handed to me by my parents. Its just not true and i feel a little sorry for the people who think that way.

.... yeah i think we would get along actually. I get far too tired of people who think that because im catholic im apparently as insane as the people of West Boro Baptist church.

Oh gods... West Boro... the one group that's so far out there, they're neither "Baptist" nor a "church"... and proof of what John Eldredge wrote in his book on Jesus:

"A nutcase talking about Jesus does far more damage than fifty atheists."

All the anti-theists have to do is point to these whackos as "proof" that all Christians are evil, spiteful, nasty people, and that religion is bad, bad, baaaaaad! Because obviously we all talk and think like them! e_e

When did people stop thinking? Oh yeah. When it became easier to just assume certain things are "true" rather than look into 'em. I confess, I'm not free of that problem myself. Even though I've mellowed now, sometimes it's just easier to assume something rather than look into it myself. Perhaps when I cure myself of sloth, I'll do more research on things.

I'll also finally have an income 'cause I won't be lazin' about. Ye gods, I wish I had half your dedication and drive. Maybe I'd be published by now if I did.

Well, I know this is a short answer to a very complicated issue. But in my belief 1%ers and feminists get a bad reputation for much the same reason. It's far too easy for someone to hate or bash on what they don't really understand. Not a lot of people get a chance to meet someone who is openly a feminist or a chance to get to know a 1%er. It's really easy for someone to blame that which they don't understand.

Should probably add "or someone that they don't know" to the end of that.

I just say I'm a sexual equalist these days, to get the message across....

A few weeks ago I was at a get-together and was sitting around after a few drinks with some folk I'd just met. The topic turned to sexual equality. The main thrust of it was the youngest person there (17 I think) turned to the lady there (that she was the only girl with this group of 4 guys wasn't actually brought up) and says "Well I know you'll hate this, but I'm a misoginist." Of course arguments went back and forth, but two things came up. One was his argument was that "if women were really equal then what's been preventing them from acting like it in the past?" to which myself and her both blurted out "VIOLENCE!" in astonishment. Which was crazy in itself to think someone could be unaware of this. The other bit was that, after listening to his arguments, that he wasn't actually a misoginist exactly. He beleived personally that all people were equal. But the crazy bit was he also beleived he was wrong, because if it was true then the world would be like that. Basically because the world already acted one way, he went along with it against his will because he assumed the world at large knew better. It seemed so cowardly to knowingly alter your actions to worse ones when you know they are worse.

A little off-topic maybe. I doubt many of the comments willing to be left on this site are quite as conveluted in their logic. Most of them that I've seen seem to stem from wanting either A) being only interesting in having males on the site for sexual purposes or B) being utterly generic "Manly Men" with no though behind the conotations of what they're saying (which generally seems to be that they want women to be non-sentient fuck-creatures (which kinda makes them zoophiles IMO) or subjugated slaves (which speaks to their unwarrented ego)).

Hear, hear!

Hey... guess what I am compelled to say.

Foxena, I am glad you are you. Labels are for chumps. I'm basing my opinion of you on your actions.

The end. :)