I didn't know your sona had such deep background.

And speaking of religion, I pressume of being a non-practicing follower of the Aztec religion...however in modern times human sacrifice is no longer posible with human rights and law itself on the way,

Fascinating. I did not know that there was effort to re-establish the Aztec religion.

I genuinely wonder, do you believe that it would be best to restart human sacrifice, or do you feel that it is unneeded in the modern era?

I ask for curiosity's sake, not to attack you.

Well, I think human sacrifice is needed still...but I'm not entirelly sure if it should be instead replaced by another kind of offering.
To re-establish it I would need to further investigate, since I know some of the legends...but not all of them.

There are many missing, lost forever, as well. Unfortunately.

The sacrifices are still done, in a sense, in ritual fights and blood-lettings, though not death, in some central American tribes of remaining Aztec and Maya. I was just curious of your position.

Cool stuff!

Personally, I follow the christian Doctrine very heavily. the problem is, not many people actually know what that really entails.

1. love one another as i have loved you so love one another.

2. judge not, lest ye be judged.

took me so damn long to figure out that those 2 things is basically what the whole damn book seems to be telling me to do.

all that other stuff seems to be...superfluous to me. thinking we can actually say what god is, and what gods rules are seem kinda arrogant to me...so I just don't listen to what other people tell me, and follow my own heart on the matter.

Im going to make mistakes, and im going to die. so i try to live doing the best i can, and enjoy the gift god has given me to the best of my ability whilst residing on earth.

That's really good to hear- but I think that those two are true to every person and every thing on Earth- to be kind and love, not to judge. I don't think those are strictly a part of any one religion, simply that people should foullow those things as a good person, as anyone who has the conciousness and being to do so, regardless of a soul or not, regardless of any religion... those are just part of beign alive.

I do appreciate the input though, and to know others feel that way.

Thats the beauty of it...those 2 things are pretty much the main doctrine of any religion. I also cannot lose my faith that there is a god...for personally, it is the one, and only thing still keeping me alive.

By any means let me know if I say anything that is offensive or out of line.

I too was raised as a Christian and ever since then sometimes I even questioned my own religion. I did get that sort of feel about my spiritual side, I started to feel like my conscious (basically, my fursona/character) was actually that spiritual guide or conscious that would guide me to make the right decisions in life. At first, funny to say, I felt like it was God or something, guiding me to make my path, a direction, and to build and maintain it. This is when I was young though, and my faith now has gone down and down, and I am not very faithful to my church anymore, especially due to the past judgments on Catholics because of the way they treated people poorly, especially homosexuals. Of course, that was in the past, and the church now that I belong to has really changed to become more welcoming of the community for who they are. I am actually trying to practice to be stronger in my faith, with an open mind of course as I am not a hardcore Catholic.

Enough of my background though, I do still consider myself as a Christian, and have always respected other peoples views on their own faith/beliefs.

I think that all these thoughts and sense of direction comes from the place you work at, and its environment, and it seems to be getting you into an unhealthy state.

I think it's nice though that everyone has their own sense of belief, or faith; it gives that kind of hope if you believed in a God, or something to look up to when you're hopeless and just need silence and meditate, and then others who don't believe that, still have some kind of direction that they follow, and they believe in themselves, and have faith in themselves.

It seems like after so many things that have happened once to you, that you seemed to have lost all that hope and strive to do something about it.

At times we really get down, and there is no one to look up to, but I promise you, that just keeping your chin up, believing in yourself, and walking forward would help you a lot, even if a curve ball is thrown at us and is hard to get ourselves back up, you also have the support of your friends here as well. Things will get better in time, I am sure of it, it would just feel like it's not if we put that mindset in our heads that things won't and we drag ourselves to get something done.

I know you're a strong person Dreamous, you're a smart man, and you're definitely an amazing person that I'm sure some people look up to when they even need help! My condolences also go out for you and your family for your loss. I know that it must be hard and tough to get past it as it's never easy to get past losing loved ones and family, but I'm sure they would want us to keep moving forward and to make the best we can to show we can do it, and live on for them :) .

I hope this helps and again, if I said anything out of line or anything uncomfortable, you may delete this comment or reply to me.

Best wishes Dreamous <3 ,

Carlos / Carcar

This is a lot of what I would have to say too. I think you are in a very bad place. My own metaphor for the way you seem to feel is what I felt a few years ago is being down a well and unable to see anything worth doing or believing in. I am kind of cynical person, but when I'm not chronically depressed, I do believe in some things fairly ambiguously. I think there is some sort of life after death, though we are probably too primitive or cluttered mentally to really understand what that may actually mean. We may in fact be only meatbags, but that doesn't make life meaningless. The crazy things they are discovering about particles and quantum physics leads me to think that maybe spiritual beliefs can manifest in really weird ways physically. I mean, look at the Tibetian monks who can pretty much stop their own hearts by meditating. It may not be spiritual in the way cartoons show us: angels and harps and such, but it is pretty incredible the way thought can affect just out own bodies. Personally, I think life and the universe is a bit like the Hitchhiker's guide implies that it's a little bit of a joke. But not in a depreciatory way, more like looking back on your childhood and being able to laugh at the goofy things you did and appreciate how life was different when you were an entirely different person.

If you are unhappy, you need to realize a few things:

Do what makes you happy when you can

Sometimes life is not fun, but suffering can teach you things about yourself and make you a stronger person

You ALWAYS have a choice. ALWAYS.

Someone can be holding a gun to your head, demanding you do something horrible that you would never willingly do. Tell them to fuck off. Or don't. I wouldn't fault anyone for choosing to survive or defy until death, or going out with a bang and taking the bastard down with them. You are the one who makes you do the things you do and people can recover from the most horrible traumas, injuries and mindfuck by being too stubborn to let it destroy them. I fully sympathize with the people that give up under hardship because life is HARD and no one's getting out alive, but I admire the ones that keep going and do their damndest to make it work. Even if there IS an afterlife, I'm determined to do awesome shit in this life that makes me happy. Sometimes that means doing stuff is REALLY don't want to do, but I find that doing things that scare or worry me makes me realize it's not so bad afterwards.



I don't know HOW bad it is for you because I can't get in your head, but it does make me really sad to hear from you that things suck (I've been hearing this awhile) and hearing it from Avarice as well as you and that's rough. I don't want to tell you to give up because maybe it is worth it. Can you make it worth it? Can you wake up every day, tell yourself "This is me making the decision to own this day and do my best to rock it."? If you can, maybe it will be worth it but don't destroy yourself over this. Giving up the awesome dragon and person that you are isn't worth it, not for me and probably not for the people that love you. You will still be an amazing person without whatever it is you are doing and I promise you will still be worthy and loved even if you have to stop killing yourself. Sometimes, allowing yourself to have a choice, giving the OK to quit can make you more determined. OR it can make you realize how much you need to fucking stop it.

I felt so freaking sad when my mom put down my 14 year old dog because she didn't stay with her. I was kind of hysterical with grief over the idea of her being at the Vet's alone. I totally feel how much that sucks and I still miss her :( But sometimes I get the feeling that she's still hanging around to say hi, which might be dumb, but fuck it, I just don't care :3

If you have the ability to take some time off, even just a couple hours, write down the pros and cons of the situation, write out things you can do to make it better and maybe some shit you'd rather be doing. I thought the job at the tattoo place was THE BEST job I would ever have and nowI have one that I am way better at and make more money with. I wish that I had actively quit on my own, but I really don't have any real regrets and I still like to go in and visit. It's honestly a huge relief to be a customer there instead of an employee. The day i was laid off, I figured I'd never be able to go back. I dunno. Text me or I'll bother you about deep philosophical shit. and call you endlessly. Don't bottle this shit up. I'm a Psych major and it gives me a meantl boner to hear others problems and try to work them out with them. <3 I like being your friend and that means sharing the icky stuff as well as the fun stuff, dork!

Heya carcar,

Thanks for the advice. I do appreciate it, and it is nice to hear- and I am working on that, continuing to go forward and just keep my mind in the game, so to speak. But I'm not sure that work is putting me into an unhealthy state, spiritually. I've been thinking about spirituality for a long while, and I just don't know if I believe in it, I guess. More than anything, I don't want to believe there is spirituality because everyone else does, or just in case so i have a place for an eternal soul I don't even know exists. I want to have it because I truly have faith in that, and feel ti's the truth deep inside.

But yeah, thank you... it's nice to hear another's thoughts. :)

Dreamous, and yes I do mean you and your regarded spiritual self, I don't know as this will come as much consolation, but I do hope it brings some comfort.

I've grown up in a similar type of environment, and as an engineer, science enthusiast, and intellectual, I really can relate on many of these things. For a long time, I did pray as a child and teenager - not as a Christian, but as a hopeful young mind reaching out to whatever might be listening an influencing our paths in life, if there were any. For a while, in college oddly enough, I began to have my mind wander (and wonder) of spiritual and otherworldly things. A few select substances did shed a little imagination over it as well as some interesting experiences I'm not likely to forget, but I hadn't quite had anything that hit me on a significant spiritual level.

Since then, I've gotten a job, been thrown into the 'real world', and found that most people are on the same wavelength we are. They used to be more spiritual, but their morale and hope is dwindling. It's honestly a sad sight for me, and a sad realization that I'm in the same boat. It really does feel like industrialized society, especially in the direction it's going these days (i.e. placing less emphasis on worker morale and more on profits, laying off without question, etc.) really does make everyone focus on the day to day stress of everything from the time we leave from work to the time we get home. Yeah, our work might be productive to the cause of the future of humanity or the continuation of some sort of business, but I personally believe that the stress we carry and the preoccupations that we have, including some meaningless drivel at work, really stunts our 'human experience' in life. It gives us less of a chance to reach out and really experience some things, even the introspective ones.

Never give up hope, Dreamy. Never give up life. I'm really happy you found someone like Sal and are so happy with him - don't let something like work interfere with that.

I really do encourage you to try to reconnect with yourself at times, even if it's just sort of a passing by 'hello' of sorts. It doesn't have to be a strict tie to some otherworldly heavenly being, but more the timeless inspiration behind who you are. Spirituality is more than life and death, I think, and even though I'm still searching for mine, I hope you don't lose yours.

You're a great guy. You've always been incredibly polite and fun to be around. I may have rambled a little, and since I never proofread, it might not all make sense, but I really do hope for the best with you (and Sal too). <3

Never give up hope, Dreamy. Never give up life. I'm really happy you found someone like Sal and are so happy with him - don't let something like work interfere with that.

THIS. You guys are really good together and not a lot of people get that chance. My robot heart does not want to believe in sappy "TWU WUV" but dammit babe, I hate to hear that work is messing with your relationship :(

Thanks Mercy. <3 It is nice to know there are others out there going through the same thing. I am still considering and working on the spirituality aspect, and trying to find a balance between work life and my own right now... hopefully it helps. :) And more than anything, thanks for having confidence in me. Myself as a person, being good or bad, is something I think and worry about quite often... it's good to know others think I'm a positive force out there

sounds like the dark of life is simply invading your soul. metaphorically or literally in a less blunt view though. religion really is an "opiate" as it removes us from viewing the problems or vast numbers of tiny negatives that add up.

"if any one religion can be defined as wrong... all them would be wrong." this is (one of) the key reasons i am unable to be religious/spiritual. the other reason is i'm surrounded by closed mindedness, almost just like your job. i have other reasons to get depressed about but most of them are honestly trivial except letting myself down in multiple ways.

despite my sona's um... certain expressive abilities, he too was "born" from a spiritual/deeper-self origin. my feral form is more "correct" to myself but i rarely use it because i'd feel like i'd be doing my "real" self wrong based off the things i want. makes no sense the more i try to explain it though =/...

I've been lurking on FA for a very long time, but your journal moved me enouhh to actually post. First, I'd like to say that I went through virtually the same thing over the years. I was raised Catholic, at 14 discovered it wasn't for me and became spiritual independent of mainstream religion and eventually found a name for my beliefs in otherkin. I felt I had sort of this animal spirit guide with whom I could see and converse, and I attributed his existance to be sort of my soul. Second, I too am persuing a career in science, and am studying electrical engineering. Over the course of my studies, I found myself seeing him less and less until eventually I would go weeks without seeing or speaking to him. It stressed me out so much that I felt my career path was literally killing my spirit and it almost spurred me to change coarse in life. Around the same time, my father was diagnosed with stage 4 lymphoma and I had to deal with the thoughts of having a huge loss in my life. I cursed the spirit for not being there for me and completely rejected its existance. Eventually, though, I just realized that it wasn't so much that I was losing my spirituality as it was I was maturing. I no longer needed guidance and conversations with this being because I was strong enough as a person to stand on my own feet and make decisions for myself. I was more confidant than I ever was growing up because of the advice from this spirit, and I simply required less guidance in the sense that I didn't need tk talk to him. He didn't go away, but more merged to mature me as an adult. I don't see him regularly unless I take the time to communicate to him anf meditate. My advice: set aside time to reconnect with him. He didn't leave you or you him, but the bond has just evolved.

Heya. Thanks for taking the time to reply- it really means a lot that out of everything you'd choose to reply to this,a nd try to help me out. I'm very sorry to hear what you have gone through, cancer's a terrible thing to have to see someone have. I'm really sorry you had to go through that. :( Thank you for sharing your thoughts with me... that is something I'd considered, maybe as I'm maturing I'm becoming one as whole again, rather than a child needing to be guided. It's interesting to know someone else went through that same experience... thank you, I think I'll try to take that advice. It's just difficult at this point to try and reconnect when I think I might just be making it all up in my head, heh.

Death is a terrifying beast to grapple with, and it seems very insensitive when you hear that trope that "death is what gives life meaning"...to that I say "meh". My dog of similar age had to be put down about a year and a half ago, also due to cancer, and cancer also claimed my last grandparent. Loved both of them a lot...

A long time ago, I was interested in the otherkin thing, but couldn't convince myself that I believed it. I'm atheist now, have been for years, and as far as I'm concerned, death just sucks.

Over the past couple years I've also been getting more into the "transhumanist" side of things. It's really a very interesting set of predictions and philosophies, and altogether a very optimistic set of ideas.

I'm also a biologist, by the way (we've chitchatted a couple times but that was a while back so you may not remember. I'm the harvard guy).

Keep your chin up. Death can be defeated. Seriously! We can do it.

It's not even so much death is terrifying- I'm not too worried about dying myself, really. That's kind of the easy way out, if there is nothing after this life. I don't like my friends dying, or those I love... I guess being alone is terrifying, not death itself.

Thanks for replying. <3 And yeah I remember you. :)

Though I'm not sure death should even be defeated- I think everyone does need to die, at some point. Otherwise there's no room for new life.

First...sorry for taking so long to reply! Derp!

Let's see... aimless ramble incoming, be forewarned!

So, yeah, I understand what you mean about death not really being terrifying...I agree, if there's nothing afterwards for you, then what difference does it make?

...But...I feel like that perspective almost takes away the meaning of life...because even those around you will and do succumb to the same fate. The collective of humanity moves on, but each individual life (so far) eventually ends, in nothingness. So then what is "the point" of life, if ultimately everyone dies and becomes nothingness? The lives of future generations might be "better" from safer, more civil environments, but fundamentally, so far, regardless of what happens, death always meets the individual.

So I would say it's not terrifying, per se. Probably somewhat less scary than, say, an eternal damnation to Hell. But certainly less interesting. Nothing is...just nothing.

That's the philosophy I take on the "individual" level if you will. Death is a pretty lame deal for the individual person.

But certainly more difficult, indeed, is the feelings of loss among those still living when a loved one is lost. That feeling isn't just -nothing-, it's acutely negative. Our loved ones are most of what make this life pleasant, and the same reciprocally for them. And yet that feeling of negativity is much more immediate. Now, rather than the promise of nothingness in the future.

But to return to the question of life... if everyone's life eventually results in nothing, then what is the point? Even that momentary pain from loss, or the counterbalance of the joys of life, reduced to a perfect 0.

It's for that reason that I think that...well, immortality, to be straight up honest, will provide the answer. Nobody met with nothingness, eternally continuity of consciousness, relationships, love.

Population is indeed a serious concern when talking about immortality. Space colonization should certainly help, and that shouldn't take but a few more decades following on the heels of all our other impending advancements. I hesitate to suggest active population control, as I view that as a serious intrusion into personal liberty. I think the problem will sort itself out.

---

Phew! Okay ^.-.^;

And...I'm glad you remember me! That makes me really happy. I know it's been a long time since we last talked over IM and we had only met briefly at AC last summer. I enjoy talking to you!

I have no words of wisdom, understanding or anything else, only that you may come to a dishision that satisfies yourself, whatever it is.

I walked away from the Catholic faith for a few years, but I recently have been coming back into it. The problem with scientists (I plan on becoming an engineer, so I think somewhat like this as well), is we are trained not to accept something without proper evidence.

Faith, is believing in something without evidence. Samuel L. Jackson said it best: There are known knowns, and there are unknown knowns, but there are also unknown unknowns. There's shit out there that we can't even comprehend yet.

There are so many hints and tastes of the metaphysical and supernatural that make me believe that science is not the end all be all answer to everything, and you must have a bit of faith for the stuff you can't measure or put in a test tube. There is something other than chemicals and electricity in all of us, and we may never be able to see it, to touch it, or understand it. It may not be for us to understand.

I don't think science is the end all be all to everything. But I don't think that I should have faith in something just to make me feel better. So many people have faith in God or afterlife or anything just to make them feel better. They become so adamant about this belief, because it makes them feel good, it can lead them to doing horrible, horrible things.... I can't have faith for the sake of it.

Growing up, death was a truly terrifying thought for me to wrap around my mind as i'm sure it is with everyone.
And with so many different people with different beliefs telling me what death would be like only made it scarier for me.
My dog, Peaches, had to be put down when I was still rather young and again only tightened the fear of death onto me, but as I've gotten older I've been able to look past it and realize that we shouldn't let that fear control our lives.

I'm very touched that you were comfortable enough to share this with us and hope you find that answers you are looking for.

Like I've said... less afraid of my own death. I just hate losing others, I don't like them no longer being in my life. The uncertainty I'll ever see them again only makes it worse...

It is for that exact same reason I treasure and hold the ones I love close to me.

This sounds a lot like me. I feel the same way and such, and I understand what you mean. The best advice that I can give is to just go with what ever feels right and makes you happy. Whether that is focusing on the metaphysical side, the spiritual side, or even a mixture of both. Personally I feel that the point in life is to live as happily as you can, and to help make those close to you happy as well, creating a form of nirvana for all.

I don't agree with what feels right and makes you happy- blind faith like that leads to most the world's problems. Being blindly faithful to what makes you feel best is what empowers people to be homophobic, xenophobic, go kill other people because what makes you feel good says they're bad....

I wasn't meaning for everyone to do what feels right, I was meaning specifically for you. You seem to already understand what is right and wrong, so doing what feels right in your situation could be an answer to figure out what way to continue.

Honestly, I've had many of the same thoughts. It does just feel like I'm lying to myself when I say I'm otherkin. I was much unhappier when I first thought about it, so perhaps it was an easy way to cheer myself up in a way, that life was better, and that it could be better in the future.
But I've got no proof, and I never will that I ever was anything but a human, or that I've ever experienced a past-life. I've reached the point where I think I just stopped caring, and I just keep believing in that lie, because it's too depressing otherwise. I'm certain that once the electrical activity stops, that's it. It's over, and we're just rotting corpses. There's no soul or afterlife.
But I don't want to believe it, so I cling to this otherkin belief.
It doesn't hurt anyone, and in some ways I think it's made my life better, since I've met so many people I wouldn't have otherwise. It served as this initial common thread, which led to more discussion and friendships, you know?
I alternate between finding solace in this belief of draconity, and intense sadness because I know I'll never anything but just some human who's destined to die at some point.

Even if it is crazy and illogical, it might be worth hanging onto your beliefs if they form a positive influence in your life. And if that isn't the case, maybe it's worth re-evaluating.

This is very similar to what I have been dealing with. It's so hard to justify any sort of belief system when you are a scientist. Just like you, I have kinda tried to hold on to that belief, no matter how much part of me says it's crazy, because why not? It doesn't hurt anyone, and it sometimes gives me solace in hard times.

I have considered that,t hat my beliefs don't really hurt other people... But I'm not sure I want to believe anything just to make me feel better. It's like being "Christian" just in case there is a heaven and you want to get into it. I think being faithful for a selfish purpose is worse than having no faith at all, if you truly believe deep down it isn't true...

thanks for the thoughts tho. Helps to know other people go through this too

An interesting and thoughtful reflection Dreamous! I think you are describing exactly the same type of contemplation many adults your age probably go through all the time.

During the first 13 years of my life, my family was in a fundamentalist Christian cult. The damages from this can only be speculated upon. It's largely the reason why my childhood was so awkward. We went to church on Saturdays (for some odd reason), I was disciplined through paddling (it was just a Ping Pong paddle, but as a kid it probably looked huge!), and everything was the devil (especially dragons!).

I have a very powerful and vivid long term memory, and can clearly remember back to when I was 4-5 years old. One of my earliest memories involves drawing dragons in chains or other types of bondage. A quick look at my present-day gallery proves that not much has changed since then! ^.=.^

I am also a very left-brained individual who always did very well in math and science. This aptitude led me to the career that I now have (computer systems administrator). Using science, research, and logic has been so useful in improving my life, especially with the power of the information age at our fingertips (bless you internet!). I guess you could say that logic and reasoning is my "god", rather than the explanation given in scripture by men of millenniums past.

However, science and reasoning can only explain so much at present day, and there are still many questions at large. Mostly these are along the philosophical lines (e.g. How did we get here? What happens after we die? What's the purpose of life? Etc). In our observation of the world we live in, death appears to be a certainty, with the events thereafter a great mystery. Uncertainties, or things that cannot yet be proven or disproven, is something that my brain type has trouble with. Through time, I have learned to just be at peace with many of those uncertainties, and just let them exist as present-day unknowns.

So yes, it is frustrating knowing that one day will be one's last day on Earth, with no foreknowledge of how soon or far away that will be. One must think what the point of the whole game of life is when you know that it is impossible to win it. However, there are a few things that can provide some solace. Although the presence of a god cannot be proven or disproven, at least we know that we have each other's social support to get through the rough patches. One can also pass on half of their genes through offspring, and have their lineage continue through generations (even if they don't consciously experience it). Should one prematurely die, the memory of their existence can still exist in the hearts and minds of their survivors who loved them (friends/family/etc); even if their Earthly existence is also limited.

Another certainty could be in knowing that although the world is a pretty messed-up place, one still has the power to leave it in a little better of a condition than when they found it - similar to leaving a dirty kitchen a little bit cleaner. This doesn't even have to be deeds great enough to land one up in the history books, or have a school named after them, etc, but perhaps it's just in improving the lives of everyone around them, however great or small.

Some may consider my rather linear, black-and-white reasoning to everything rather simplistic, but for now it provides the comfort I need. I must admit there are several burning questions that do not have a definitive answer that are almost a torture to ponder over. For example, why have I had such an intense fascination... almost fixation with dragons for as long as I've lived? Even more on the sexual side of things, why do I have such a strong interest in bondage/BDSM? Is there perhaps some sort of spiritual symbolism behind "the-happily-bound-and-muzzled-dragon"? These are all questions in which the answers probably fall into the dreaded grey area - where they may not be a right or wrong answer.

Do I wish I was more of a spiritual person? Maybe. On one hand, I wish that I could feel the presence of my character Sabre better instead of always trying to think about it or explain it on a rational basis. On the other hand, I wish to avoid the subject altogether, as it's just too much of a tease to feel there may be some truth behind the dragon thing (e.g. was a dragon before, am a dragon now in non-physical form, may be a dragon in the future, etc).

So those are my cluttered thoughts on the matter. It's an interesting subject to me, even though I clearly am still not sure what to make of it all.

Thanks for the thorough reply... it helped reading it. And yeah, I am trying to work with what I have now, what I have here, and the people that are there to support me. Honestly, dying myself isn't so much a worry as when I lose others. And yeah... I'm working to at least do my small part to improve the world.

That last bit... yeah, that's the feel, a lot of it. I think that's why I've turned my back to all of it so much. It's easier just not to think about it at all, than suffer the uncertainty, the thought that I'm betraying myself and lying to myself just to feel a little better. That idea is what ruins it for me more than anything I think...

thanks again. it really means a lot to read all this, and to have the support out there

Oh Dreamous, look at this responsible discussion you have invoked on such a touchy subject! Even though we all come from different creeds and walks of life, this entire comment chain has been rather respectful! Well done furs!

Don't ever let life getcha down Dreamous! I think it's the ups and downs that keep it so interesting. Although this doesn't work for everybody, sometimes when I get myself down, I just take a step back and think about what I have, as opposed to what I don't have.

I was lucky enough to be born in the first world. I don't have to worry about things like starvation, disease, shelter, war, etc as some people in other countries on the same planet do (often on a daily basis). That cures my self-pity pretty quick. It also annoys me when I hear people like my younger brother (who can't manage his money worth a damn) say he "just needs to win the lottery". Well I'm sorry bro, you already have won the lottery by being born into your circumstances. Billions of other humans haven't been so lucky as you.

I can understand your worries about losing others or being alone. Can you imagine if you just so happened to live a very long life, and outlived all of your friends and maybe even family? That wouldn't be very fun. I guess one is never too old to make new friends though, but it is something that has crossed my mind.

As aforementioned, my "lowest common denominator" approach lately to life has been my comfort. I kinda consider a lot of this stuff a "waste of time" if it can't be proven or disproven. It may be interesting, but I currently prefer to take the "wait and see" approach. Sure, I may have been a dragon before. I also could have been a humpback whale before. Each could potentially have the same probability.

You know, some of my philosophizing has come from being in states in which I had lost consciousness (or at least the memory of being conscious). An example can be drinking to excess (fur con anyone?). My most recent example is as early as Rainfurrest 2012! It was there that I became the most drunk I ever have after overdoing a bottle of vodka. I had a total and complete blackout that lasted about 10 hours, even though I was still going out-and-about, to the dance, etc in a subconscious autopilot. I literally teleported from the room party to my bed in my room in an instant, and had to call the friends I was with to hear the story for the first time. For all I know I died that night, and you've all been punking me ever since! (like the Sixth Sense or something) =p

In less extreme examples, have you ever been so tired where you fell asleep, did not dream (or didn't remember dreaming), and woke up something like 10-12 hours later? It went by in an instant didn't it? Does that also mean a trillion years could go by in an instant?

I was born in December 1985. My earliest memories go back to about 1989/1990 (when I was about 4-5 years old). Was that the age my brain was developed enough to become conscious and self-aware? I don't remember being a toddler, and I certainly don't remember being in my mother's womb. But I was certainly alive at that time wasn't I? Or, similar to my silliness from before, was 1988 and prior all fabricated by everyone, since I was not conscious during those times to believe all the proof of history?

Could it be possible then that I could have lived and died and several humans throughout history, with no memory of these prior existences? Why leave it at human, could I have been several animals throughout history (even if I wasn't conscious during them, if we can prove that animals are not self-aware and conscious?) What has made me stay in my consciousness ever since first becoming conscious? Why don't I fall asleep and wake up under a different consciousness? When I die, do I basically just assume the next human birth on the planet, or elsewhere on another planet in the universe?

As you probably noticed, I just wrote an entire paragraph of rhetorical questions, with no way to answer them "correctly". I guess this is "proof" that any of these could be possible, but never proven. Some of this stuff kinda sounds along the lines of reincarnation, which is a Hindu belief, which is just an idea I ponder over, but do not align myself with. I'm just giving an example of how my brain thinks and reasons sometimes. Again though, without a way to prove it one way or another, should I not do something more productive with my limited Earthly time? =p

Switching gears a bit, when it comes to my own fursona, Sabre, I'm not sure if I am reproducing a metaphysical form of myself, or just simply created the character for enjoyment. I often catch myself switching back and forth between personal pronouns, and speaking of him in the third person. This makes it seem like I am jumping in and out of roleplay, almost like an actor, but the character itself may actually be separate from me.

Human creativity is another thing I have contemplated about. It seems to form no survival purpose, yet is so important to our "humanness" (or else we'd be as interesting as robots!). I think if we ever had contact with another alien species, we would want to send them examples of some of our most classic art pieces, musical scores, history, culture, etc, rather than just prove how far along we are with mathematics, technology, and intelligence.

Along the lines of creativity, could you come to accept that perhaps you are simply just Dreamous's creator, or even Dreamous's god? Could you have just expressed your human desire to create, and induced this character into creation (first in your mind, then perhaps expressed in written form, then finally in artistic form)? You then could hold up a visual depiction of this creation and proudly announce:

"This is Dreamous. His power is maximum. His feet are sexy too!" =p

Scientists are constantly required to ask the question "why." But in my view, it's just as important to ask "why not."

Growing up, I was never very religious. Neither were my folks. So my beliefs always tended to lean toward that which could be proven true, or at least backed by strong supportive evidence. But does that mean beliefs lacking evidence are automatically untrue? Should we so easily dismiss something simply because we have no reason to support it?

I really don't have any answers. Maybe the point is that there are no answers, or perhaps even multiple answers. The field of science has come a very long way in the last 100 years. Even the last 10. What we knew and believed back then has changed so much because of what we have learned since. But I believe there is still so very much that we don't know. Things that bring into question that which we currently take for granted as facts. What will our knowledge and beliefs be like 100 years from now? Or 1000? What will the evidence tell us then that we cannot see today?

My own personal belief (which you may take or leave as you will) quite simply is that I don't know what to believe. Certainly there are many things that I find far more likely to be true than certain other things, and I lead my life accordingly. But at the same time I could never go up to a person of faith and tell them that their religion/spirituality is wrong. When it comes down to it, I don't know that it's wrong. Even if only one small piece is true, then that piece has meaning. To me. To you. To everyone.

Perhaps our spiritual beliefs exist simply because we believe them to exist. Perhaps they exist for everyone, or exist differently for each individual. How do we really know if we are nothing more than the sum of our biological parts? How do we really know that our being dies with our bodies? With all of our history's collected evidence, how much do we actually know?

I don't really know what to believe, or even if anyone else does either. Maybe we all only hold a piece of the answer, and must come together to share our spiriuality to arrive at a conclusive whole? Maybe nobody has it right. What I choose to believe, however, is that most anything is possible. That our existence isn't just a defined thing for us to discover, but also an amorphous thing for us to create. Our beliefs make us as much as our biology does. And believing in a better world beyond what we know makes us better than what we would be otherwise.

Hakuna Matata, dear Dreamous. Never be afraid to believe. You may know more than you think you do. :)

Just some random, late night food for thought. Hopefully this makes as much sense in the morning as my tired mind thinks it does now. o.o;

Thanks for the thoughts Arc. <3 I'm not entirely sure I agree with the first part- yes, why is important. But I think more important to me, as a scientist, is "Is there feasible reason to believe this". For the most part, I worry about becoming a person that believes what I do just to make myself happier. But that leads to bad things- most things you can blame on religion, christianity, etc are because "I feel good believing this, and it feels good to hate these people based on these beliefs."

More than anything, I think that thought upsets me because I find it to be an abuse of my spirituality, an abuse of Dreamous, to belief in him only to make myself feel better. Though I suppose this actually lends to my true belief in him, to be concerned about abusing the thought....

Thanks for the reply. It helps me think out a lot of stuff and feel a bit better. :)

Well I disagree with your assessment a little bit. The negative aspects of religion don't really stem from folks believing in something because it makes them feel good, IMO. Rather, they stem from the mentality that "My belief is truth, everyone else is wrong, and they should all believe as I do." They don't hate certain people because it makes them feel better, but rather because those people challenge their established beliefs, and they feel threatened by that.

That's not really the fault of religion itself, but rather the people who practice it. A lot, if not most folks are pretty chill about their beliefs. Instead of feeling threatened by new or different ideas, they embrace them, and incorporate them into their own beliefs. Perhaps they even change their beliefs based upon what they've learned. Other people, however, seem to feel a need to reject and combat any viewpoint that is different from their own. This can manifest itself through behaviors of separation and rejection ("You're not like us. Only people who are like us can live with us and be treated equally among us,") through behaviors of conversion ("Your beliefs are wrong. You should believe as I do, or risk eternal damnation. Read this book and join me. Your soul depends on it,") or through violent behavior ("Your beliefs constitute a direct threat to my very existence. I am justified in eliminating you before you eliminate me.")

I can say with absolute assurance that you're not one of those folks, Dreamous. Your spirituality exists as it does because it's where your own personal road in life has led you thus far. You're not the type of person who would force it onto others while rejecting their own beliefs. Nay, as a scientist I imagine you would be fascinated to learn as much as you could about other people's spirituality as a way of better understanding your own. You'll never become a bad person because of your beliefs. Of that I'm certain.

I guess what it comes down to is that it's not a bad thing to feel good about believing in something. It's what you do with that belief that really matters. A mother might embrace her child who becomes frightened whenever a loud thunderstorm rolls overhead. Logically, the child shouldn't feel any better by this action, since that embrace won't protect either of them from a direct lightning strike. And yet, despite all reason for it, a simple hug seems to make all of the child's worries melt away. Even if it's just for a time.

I think Dreamous is hugging you right now. Because sometimes, desiring to feel good and happy in life is the only feasible reason one needs to believe in something, IMO. Not to the exclusion of everything else, of course. Just enough to keep your soul in proper balance as it travels through this mystery we call life.

Have a hug from me too! I'd be lying if I said I hadn't had thoughts similar to yours from time to time. Hopefully I've helped you feel a little better, at least. And know that whatever you decide you need to do, you have my full support. <3

Speaking from the scientist side of things, I understand the exhaustion, the disappointment and the question 'why am I doing this?' Most people in those field are motivated by the thought that they're doing good in some form or that they're discovering the unknown. If this is something you really don't see yourself as doing for the rest of your life and if it's something that'll only continue to cause you to be unhappy, then please do consider other options. It might suck considering losing whatever work you've put in so far, but those are sunk costs, no sense in throwing good years after bad if you're truly unhappy.

I was motivated for a long while by that thought, but it's not helping so much any more. It's all so stacked against researchers, and things hardly ever work out... seems like i'm making no good out of anything really. Just a waste of time i suppose ^^; Hopefully I can get ove rit soon now that things are starting to sort otu...

It's not easy and it gets really disheartening for a lot of people. I wish you luck and please do consider if this is something you want to do for the rest of your life.

Thanks for the input. And this is how I see things, sometimes. However, I find hardcore athiesm to that extent just as repugnant as hardcore religiousness. That is part of the problem; we don't know that there isn't anything as much as we don't know there is. And as un-scientific as it seems now to believe such things, that's how history has been. It was impossible for plants to talk to each other, for a gene to look out for itself and fuck the host, for a protein to be alive and function for itself. All those have been shown true recently- and many more things that science has said is absolutely impossible/untrue. I think certainty either way is just as bad. *Shrug*

so many people talking with so much authority over if there is somethign after death or not. when they dont know.
It left to us to make our descions as towhat we belive i belive in somthign else it snot relgion just faith not orginized just there.
what evert you decide i will still care for you and accept you and if you need anythgn form me let me know hon i will try mybest to help

I totally agree with Jace. If it hurts you to be giving up your spirituality, you should think about why and perhaps make changes one way or another. Sometimes we cling to things because they are comforting, but that doesn't mean it's wrong to believe in it as long as you aren't hurting other or totally deluding yourself. Actually hearing voices and such is not necessarily a good thing 8(

but talking to God or some deity is more debatable and personal. We will love you dewd...

thanks hun. that means a lot to me. :) *hugs*

hey your imprtant to me dude...

Personally I think the afterlife, gods and all that other stuff are complete bunk. As you said, there is a complete lack of evidence to supprt any of those claims. Not to mention that most religious texts are heavily flawed and contradict themselves. They might as well have been written like that on purpose because if you look at the bible for example you can pretty much say anything with that damn book. "Oh I am totally cool with gay people because Jesus said we should love one another but I also really hate your guts because god says you are an abomination!"
Personally I am an anti-theist in the sense that I think religion in itself is harmful for humanity. It is the pinnacle of stupidity and if you want a perfectly decent human being to do absolutely horrible things all it takes is religion.
Look at the pope for example. "AIDS is pretty bad but condoms are way worse!"? That essentially destroyed years and years of educational work in Africa. FUCK that bastard!
And in the islamic countries they are killing people for changing their beliefs...
I hate it... If I could I would get rid of it all.

As for spirituality, I think you can be a very spiritual person without any supersticious beliefs. If you look at us and the universe itself and when you realize that we all are part of one gigantic system and that we are made of the same material that came to be when the solarsystem formed? THAT makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside!

And as for this whole afterlife stuff... It's so asinine. It's a security blanket that we keep because we are afraid of death.
Personally I am cool with the idea of death. Life is awesome but it has to end one day. I don't want to live forever, because if I did all those awesome moments that I had would become entirely meaningless in the grand scale of my infinite life.
When I die I am gonna be put into a box and rot away. Or maybe burned and put into an urn. But you know what? I am cool with that. I am even cool with the fact that a bastard like Hitler for example got that as well. His death was probably the worst death imaginable. He got what he deserved.

Personally, I'm not afraid of my own death anymore. I only fear the method in which it might be carried out. And yeah, I know the whole afterlife thing might be total bullshit to some, Heck, I'm not even a religious person and I still believe in the afterlife. I mean, I just personally think that there just has to be something after this. Otherwise, what would be the point in living if regardless of whether you're a good or bad person, you're still gonna meet the same end of your body just rotting in the ground with your spirit pretty much ebbing off into nothingness? Like, people keep wondering what the meaning of life is. Maybe it's to judge where our spirit belongs after we die (yeah, I'm kinda coming up with some of this w/o much thought, so sue me XD) I'm not about to become a bible-thumper in the hopes of going to heaven, though. Cuz all the bible (from what I understand) says is basically "Don't be a dick", "Love everyone", and "Be a good person". As for organized religion, I don't necessarily hate any of them. However, I DO hate it when religion turns people into utter zealots and bigots who can't even accept it when their own child is gay and with someone, or if someone else's beliefs don't EXACTLY match their own. And don't abandon Dreamous! He'd miss you too much! D: *hugs*

To touch on a small bit you mentioned first, I like to go along this tangent sometimes when people want to think about evidence of spirituality and the memory of the soul:

Quote: "...Just we're bags full of electricty and fluids, and when it ends... it ends..."

Matter and energy are never created nor destroyed. If you want to get into the technicalities, and even touch into the realm of mixed physics, Bhuddism, and Druidism all at the same time; your body's energy and matter are dispersed into the world when you die. Your flesh breaks down to feed the soil, and new life emerges from it. The electricity in your body dissipates into the background, but is absorbed again by all other things. Energy is information. It may not be the entirety of your life when you pass, but it transfers out of you and into something as power.

---

As for my own beliefs of myself, I'm right along with you on the grounds that Ara and I are the embodiment of one being on a physical/spiritual split across two planes of existence. Although I do not so much commune with Ara, as we are much less two minds, and more a singularity woven very closely. I have had confirmation by other individuals who have seen me before they ever met me, feeling that kind of aura from across the room like a larger-than-life sensation.

What I can say to you is, just because some people adamantly disapprove of your feelings and senses, doesn't mean you're wrong. It just means they're blind to that sixth sense, or refuse to believe it can/does exist. The universe is full of really weird shit, but just because we turn a blind eye to it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Look at all things with an open mind always. Nothing is -wrong- unless you can definitively prove it wrong.

Don't lose yourself to pressure. You'd be lying to yourself. It's common knowledge that a lot of people out there whom, in your hyperbole, believe they are more than they say they are, but don't actually believe it and live it. Not every Otherkin is actually Otherkin. The cool kids always want to say they are because it's the thing to do, just like the Westboro Baptist Church calls themselves "good Christians". What's in a name? Titles don't mean anything if the spirit isn't there. There may very well be many more dormant Otherkin in the world than actively believe it, because they don't know it or suppress feelings out of social pressures.

So, while some peer pressure pushes you to believe one thing, other pressures push you to not. Don't let anyone else dictate your life. You are who you think you are, and that's all that matters. Live your life for you.

This story sounds very similar to my own, though I guess many of us Kin have a lot of crossing paths that way. For me I use to be one of those over-serious draconic types back in the early 2000's, I just believed I was a dragon and that was that, I didn't care to associate with furries and I had luckily separated myself from my "drag me to church" relatives. For years I went on, all that was in my head was "im a dragon, thats what I feel I am" I used that notion to help propel me ethically and socially as opposed to becoming more introverted and close minded in the sense that "im a dragon, everyone is wrong, I don't need to have a life outside of myself and other dragons" or something along those lines that I see in sadly too many of us out there >.=.<

But like everything in life, time takes it toll.. By the mid 2000's I had turned my back on my own draconity, I couldn't stand some of the dragons I met and just didn't wanna be associated with them for fear of people thinking I was also a self centered person with ego issues.. So I went about just saying I was a furry, my spiritual side being more and more self-repressed.. till about 2009 where even my involvement in the fandom was at a all time low.. Drake Wingfire, myself, had become something of just a character, like he was living the life I wanted and we had grown miles apart in who we were... It was finally at 2010 that my life had fallen apart so much, I just hardly felt like a dragon... I felt like just another trampled upon begrudged human.

Come 2011 it seemed like I was bombarded by all these things, first the passing of Athus. How people talked of a spiritual dragon like that made me look back and feel like a fool for turning my back on who I was because of a few bad apples when all the time there were good ones out there like him who proved that being spiritual didn't mean being closed off and stuck up. The second real big change for me was a bit of my own discovery that I had a pull towards Shamanism. I had a real long time and rather spiritual friend who I talked to quite often cause she was one of the few people I knew would actually listen and talk instead of nod along and try and pretend im not a lost cause. Even she was trying to slap some sense into me about me denying who I am and trying to hide the dragon I am at my core, who I had repressed out of fear of being cast out and cruelty judged for not being like everyone else. With those two things in mind I spent a lot of time thinking and trying to open myself back up and really think over why I was hiding myself and turning myself away from my own draconity when all I currently was, was a very blah and miserable person. I decided to really make an effort, try a little meditation, get myself out more and really think about what it means to be a dragon. I slowly started to feel that spark come back to me, that real sense of self and sense of belonging, I felt that kind of magic that I first did when I had my awakening many years ago. I am very happy that I had such good friends to really help me sit down and look deeply at myself and see what I had been doing for years. I am proud to be able to stand on my own and be who I am at my core.

If there is any sort of message or morale here it would have to be that, despite what life throws at us or what people we meet. In the end the only person we truly have to face and explain ourselves to is ourselves. We know who we are or where we want to go. If we feel we want to re-connect with our roots, then by all means, or if we feel that things are not all we hoped and want to move on, thats also fine. Those are the choices only we can make ultimately.

The more you get the more you will lose. Live is even, even for Immortals.

we may be lumps of carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, and nitrogen, but we can't say that we always will be. it's entirely possible that we can't prove an afterlife simply because it's completely parallel to our world. overall, i think that you probably get what you think you'll get in the end. if you expect nothing, you'll probably get nothing. if you expect to reunite with other spirits, you might very well do just that. the power of suggestion is a powerful force, and i see no reason for it to exist in only one aspect of our lives.

Dreamous, you are amazing. Don't ever feel down like that. Be happy that you can be with someone you love and not be worried about being accepted. Your art is truly wonderful and so are your stories. Heck, the Roommates comic and side stories you and Sal and Treiii worked on actually helped me come out. I'm atheist, but I think that science can prove most things. You are really a nice person and you just need to remove yourself from everything a few times. Play a video game for hours on end, watch a few movies, draw a whole bunch of things, write a lot of stories, or let the thought train roam freely. Heck, maybe even have a nice romantic evening with Sal. But if you remove yourself from your boring life for a while and do something fun, it really does wonders. Trust me, I haven't been on vacation in something like 3 years! It wears on you, knowing what your week will already be. It makes you want to stay at home because you already know how it's going to end. Again, you make a lot of people happy, and the Roommates art/stories were a large factor of me deciding to come out! You helped me so much, I just wanna say thanks and don't put yourself down! You feel miserable and it's faster just to make yourself happy, even if only for a little while. If you can't even do that, just sleep a nice long rest. It works wonders.

To someone who helped me open up and that I gladly look up to and thank, Dreamous.

I've been in a similar position to where you are now, and while I won't be as presumptuous as to say I know what you're going through, I can definitely sympathize. It took me six years of agonizing self-questioning to accept my draconity for the very reason that there was no concrete proof, no hard evidence, nothing more than a simple gut feeling that this crazy idea that I am a dragon in spirit was somehow right. Complicating matters are the facts that I was also raised as a Catholic, and am still a Christian (Non-Denominational, because I disagree with Catholicism and many other branches). But that period of intense self-scrutiny, and the experiences that followed, taught me one of the most important lessons in my life thus far: Listen to your instincts. They're rarely wrong. In the midst of this crisis of spirituality and faith in the unprovable and immaterial, versus the hard facts and established knowledge surrounding your work and your ways of thinking, I recommend pausing for a moment and asking, "What does my gut tell me?" Unfortunately, this too is an example of faith in something formless, but it is at least a start, and the answer may lead you to a solution.

Whatever you choose to do, I wish you the best, and hope that you find the answer you're looking for.

Your friendly neighborhood dragon,

Chance

Wow, I knew that you're often stressed, but I didn't have any idea all this was going on in your head (probably due to the fact that you don't feel comfortable talking about it). I can definitely feel the "spiritual but not religious thing," seeing as I was also raised in a religious home in my youth and eventually found myself having a faith, but not wanting to be associated with any particular religion. It's... definitely a difficult situation to be in. When my grandparents passed away, I really didn't know what to think. My Catholic roots told me that one day I would end up seeing them again, but in my head there was always this nagging doubt. I'm still not entirely sure what to feel, honestly, and I doubt that I'll find my answer any time soon. What I will say is that you should never be complacent about your own beliefs. Never say to yourself, "I'm Christian/Catholic/atheist/etc. and that's the end of the story." You are a human being and entitled to change your mind. If for now you feel that you cannot continue to have this spiritualism due to your scientific skepticism, then you can make that decision. If something later on in your life causes you to want to be spiritual again, you're allowed to change opinions. In the end, just make sure that whatever you end up believing comes from yourself.

As for all of the stress with your current life, I think that you're right to feel a little overwhelmed. From what you've told me (and I apologize if I was a poor listener last night when you walked me back to my car. I should have been more supportive), you have a lot on your plate and there are a lot of things that still need doing. I will say though, that you're not wasting your time. If your experiments fail, it doesn't make you a bad scientist, it just means that the answer lies elsewhere, but hopefully somewhere you'll figure out what needs to be done (I have faith in you). As for work, yes, it puts strain on us, our relationships, friendships, our mental wellbeing, but at the end of the day, you'll see that you'll have come out stronger for it. I actually think that you're doing very well for yourself. You've got a nice (if not somewhat humble, no offense) place that's full of friends and loved ones, and you're working towards your Ph.D. I can only hope that I can do as well for myself too.

I've never had the occasion to say so, but I'm really glad to be your friend, because you're caring, hardworking, intelligent, and fun to be around. So thanks for being around, whether or not you know it, you've helped me. :)

Love,

That Silly Kitty You Know

Dreamous I love you regardless of your Spirituality or lack thereof I myself am a Mormon( yeah a gay mormon I know) even though I feel that all organized religion is wack I still hold those beliefs close to heart. I've died or had "near death" Experiences 3 times and it just affirms my knowledge of the afterlife because I saw those loved ones that have physically left this earth. I have a belief in a god or gods and do believe in existence due to these death experiences. I also have many friends who are Atheist; I think it's up to the individual and the circumstances given day to day that determine Spiritual stuff.

Just know that whatever happens love Sal with all your heart and you will find inner peace.

Much love,
Dan AKA Bullet

It's been about 12 years for me since I started identifying as dragon. Through that time I've been through a lot of darkness with the dragon side helping me stand, a biology degree with a psych minor telling me there's no evidence for this to be, and finally, after 13 years of depression, coming out of the darkness and actually LIVING. The dragon still stands with me, even if we don't talk as much these days, and now instead of leaning on its metaphysical shoulder we bro out and feel the groovy feels over great music and life in general.

For me, I just stopped thinking about what comes next and started living in the heat of the moment. Remember: Life is awesome! If nothing comes after, enjoy it to its fullest! If something comes after, enjoy it to its fullest and then do it again the next time around!

Hey, I like that last statement! No matter what happens, give it your best shot! ^.=.^

I can really relate to how you feel. When I was in the first year of high school, going through what you do around the age of 12-13 or so, I would google dragons every day. I'd read a book with a dragon protagonist in it and felt very attached to the character. I've always adored dragons and been fascinated by them, and I found an otherkin website of some kind. After reading through it and other similar pages over a few weeks, I believed myself to be a dragon or somesuch. I got so involved with my mindset that I realised I was taking it a little too far, I realised I wasn't really a dragon but just a normal person, and backed off so much that I tried to stay away from dragon-related things for a while, only coming back to dragons after a while. One of the things that scared me about myself was an odd kind of 'dragon purity' mindset where I started to grow very misanthropic towards people in general, I felt a certain hatred of people in that they were not dragons, didn't think dragons were the be all and end all as I thought. I realised I couldn't continue like that and so I stepped away from exploring what attracted me to dragons. However now I believe I have a healthily-balanced interest in dragons again - not obsessive about them any more.

But that is also bad in a way because to an extent, I have lost that energy and spark and thrill that I used to feel when I would think about my very favourite creatures ever. My mum was born to a Christian family and would bring me along to church, so I grew up going to that kind of thing every so often, but not regularly. I believed in God and all that stuff, and mum would take me to Presbyterian churches I think, since she went to a Presbyterian school. My dad hates organised religion however is interested in all this strange stuff, stemming from an interest in UFOs. He has several books by authors who claim to be psychics, mediums, etc, and one day I was looking for something to read and picked up those books. I read them and believed what they said without thinking about it critically.

After I talked to a very heavily devout Christian friend who I told about this psychich/medium stuff and she said it made her feel sick to the stomach, I tried to follow her advice, giving up my belief in the psychic/medium stuff (different books contradict each other anyway) and I tried to find Jesus and all that like she wanted me to, but I questioned whether any of it made me any different when I felt exactly the same as I did before. Over the next year and a half or so I lost my faith more and more and more, finding no justifiable reason to believe in spiritual things. Now I more or less believe that there's nothing that exists outside what can be physically seen and felt. All those times I used to pray and think that my prayers had been answered - it wasn't some act of God that little good things happened to me, it was just the way it was, God wasn't going to help me with stupid little things.

I'd still like to be able to delude myself into thinking I was some kind of dragon spirit or something, or believe in something powerful, because then I would have faith in something. It's kind of depressing when you believe there's nothing bigger than what you can see or perceive and I think I don't have the kind of inner motivation and drive that people who believe in those kind of things do. I have next to nothing spiritually. Sometimes I wish I could be my fursona in some kind of idyllic world.

I like to think I'm open to spiritual things, and I think it would be nice some day to believe in something again, but this is how I am at the moment and it's similar to you.

Damn, I know this feeling so well. I don't want to get into it in length here but a lot of what you covered has been a good summary of my life for the last couple years. If you want to get into it more we can always chat about it later.

I like to think of life as a big bag of WTF. You could reach in and pull out a million dollars, or you could pull out flaming scorpions. Life is chaos, that is what makes it so fascinating that we are even here to experience it. Being sentient itself is a supreme unknown for us, as we still do not know how to fully comprehend or grasp it. I myself identify as otherkin, and to me it seems you are going through an identity crisis. This happens quite a bit after the loss of someone close. Is it your mind trying to tell you something, or is it your brain trying to shield you from the grief by forcing you to think in the present? Stay true to yourself and you will find the answer, though how long that takes is a mystery. Whatever conclusion you come to is yours and yours alone to accept. I know we do not speak much, but I bare no ill will to you. I at least hope you read this, and that my words can make at least a fraction of a difference. ^.=.^

First of all, really sorry about your friend and your dog.

Agree wholeheartedly with you saying different religions are different ways of trying to understand the same greater force. It becomes noticeable when one puts a little thought into it. But... I feel religions are one of Man's greatest creative legacies. If there is a Creator and/or Rules to Life, I believe they aren't, or shouldn't, be subjective. The main objective of religion is to preach the ways that people should take in order to live together in peace. Sadly, most religions have flaws to this or even, just plain ignore that (Muslims have this right to conflict ingrained in the Qur'an; Christians subdivisions hate themselves, etc.). Since I don't think those will be fixed any time near, it will be the mission of each person to accomodate their belief in order to fullfill the plain reason of religion's existence, that way one can be truly happy with themselves.

I don't really like to give much thought into spiritualism. For me, literally worshipping the Creator won't satisfy you. I'll live my life my way and attempt everything to be in peace with myself. Being happy, living to the fullest, being thankful of what you got, being nice to others... If that isn't the way to worship a Creator, I don't know what to do and frankly, I wouldn't care to know. With science on the other hand, everything's plausible until is proven certain or false. Can people prove its certainty? I don't believe people can't; they can search for answers as much as they want, but I'm not expecting them to find something. THey may or may not and that answer will be true.

In short: Don't let this get in your head, be happy of who you are, what you have and who you're with: In the end, all that will contribute to your spiritual happiness.

I'm behind at looking at journals. And I only read half the comments here before I stopped.

But anyway, what you are going through sounds a lot like myself. I was semi-raised christian myself, but never to an extent enough to really make any decision about it myself. It at least has history on its side.
Draconity is a more specific and less encompassing belief, perhaps not even mutually exclusive with Christianity, except maybe in the fine print.
All I know is that, for me, accepting Draconity was a combination of a few shreds of 'evidence' combined with, as was recommended to me, "trying it on". And a bit of a leap of faith on my part.
As for whether that is enough, well... Have you seen the movie 'Life of Pi"? Basically the summary is that, given two alternative explanations/stories, having the exact same measurable result, what is the harm in accepting the more interesting one? Maybe that's not good enough. I don't know.

Hopefully you can find an agreeable solution to this. Feel free to ask me about it if I'm online. Or about beer =)

I am sure you know what has happened to me and I am thankful to have my other kin besides me no matter what.

Hmmm very interesting, and enlightening for sure, a true look into the self as it were and I must commend your bravery for wishing to post it to others so that they might get to know you more. Greetings there I am Vendra and it’s a pleasure to meet you. Allow me to first say that yes I am a bit late to the party as it were on this post, and well we have never really had the chance to sit and talk before even though I seem to run into you at mutual friends’ gatherings., but I must confess that even before this post I had wished to get to know you more as you seem like a nice dragon. However after reading this I have an even greater interest in getting to just chat with you sometime as you obviously are a very intelligent person and have had similar experiences to me.
The question of spirituality is always a complicated and personal one that’s for sure. I was always raised Christian, Methodist if you wish to be precise, but well long story short in the end I decided that organized religion is not right for me. Still believe in a god yes, well actually I am Christian but the whole like Baptist, Methodist, whatever, was not for me. I kind of just liked the message of being good, kind, forgiving, but well the building and organization as it were, just not for me. Plus there was the whole connection I felt with dragons and other critters that kind of really made me question things. As you opened up to the community about this I welcome you to read my large post on self-reflection if you like http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/2847270/
It’s in the post above that I call into question the reflection of the self, and how it relates to my fursona. I seriously call into question my own character and well wonder what I am. I sometimes wonder if I will ever know for sure. I mean I know what I love, I know what I feel, I know so much and yet still can question who I am. I often worry that if I do change my fursona that people would not accept me. Hehe, even now I think to myself it’s silly that I would use this as my first chance to introduce myself to you .
There is one thing that I know for sure though, that you have good friends who will help you through this if you should choose to lean on then. I just know many of them because as I have said we have many friends in common so I know them all to be very good people. I wish you the very best in your journey and hope that we might have the chance to cross paths and sit and talk.

Thanks for the reply, and the link to what you've gone through recently. It's nice to hear other's take on this, and how they think, and what is just... out there in the realm of possibilities, i suppose. I wish you luck on your journey :)

Well to be honest that post of mine was a year ago. Some things have been solved but I think the journey of self discovery will always be ongoing to an extent. And you can wish me horrible luck if you like it will just make me sad.

Why would i ever do that? :p

I just kind of happened upon this post and it hit me pretty hard, I went through a similar stage after my grandmother died a couple years ago, questioning where she went or what is there after we die, I was born and raised a Catholic but have found myself as an Agnostic, I neither believe in god/gods but don't deny the possibility of that/those god(s) existing. But what has helped me through is that no matter what is on the other side, if anything at all. Those people/animals that come into our path no matter how brief always leave something behind for us, they help us along our own path in life, and that piece will always remain. they add to the value of our lives in the now, and build us up even when they pass on.

I don't believe that we will ever be able to know what happens when we die until we do, even when that happens we will have left a piece of ourselves, a legacy if I may, in those that we have come in contact with. I'm not saying devote one's self to a religion, but don't necessarily completely remove it from your life, even if it is believing in the spiritual half of yourself because that will still give you purpose and a reason to continue on even when everything else degrades and falls away.

I hope this helps at least a little.