That is very true and a good point indeed. The Pornographic aspect to the Furre Fandom does indeed give it its uniqueness and at the same time can be looked at as a challenge in itself for those who want to be good artists.

The Positives and Negatives of Sex having such a high role in our fandom is that it can for one, definately give you praise, and the coveted page views, faves, etc etc. It can also be used as a creative obstacle to leap over to reach that great artist level. Because like you said it takes a true artist to make a squirrel with massive knockers and multi cocks appealing. It could be said that it takes a greater artist to get the same views that picture would...while keeping it clean.

...or something like that I dont know, Im still waking up.

Seems to me there is lots of great non-pron for furs, it's just hidden in the Sci-Fi/Fantasty section a Barnes and Noble.

Don't me started on all the movies, tv shows, and video games starring anthros.

Those just arent 'furry' because the people who created them didn't wear an ear and tail.

*Sound the alarm: incoming personal opinion*

As far as I'm concerned. If it's not pron, it's not really furry ;3

Very well put :) I think you've really hit the psychology of this community at its core, and that's exactly how I feel about it. I think it's really fascinating and exciting to see all the creativity and imagination that pours out of this site, in all its forms....even (perhaps especially) the ones that don't line up with my personal interests. It annoys me when the self-righteous dismiss all the art here as mere "porn".

Myself, having quit drawing yiff since a while - but still loving to look at it - I made my mind up about the whole porn thing...

First of all, extreme fetishes and porn aren't just in furry, but anywhere and on anything. The only difference is the subject. Visit any image board as https://www.4chan.org , in the hentai\alternative section, and you'll immediately get what I mean. Herms, huge cocks, tentacles, inflation etc etc. Doesn't take a furry to make a kinky pic.

Said this, it is true that alot of porn pictures, even if liked and appreciated, aren't artistically good. Alot of proportion and perspective errors, and stuff like that. A porn artist gets 10x the watches and faves an artist twice as good as in quality as him but that doesn't draw porn gets. In the situation I am now, it's sad but true. My pics get totally ignored and uncared for even if I improved my technique alot since when I used to draw porn stuff...

Said this, I love furry, porn or not ^_^

Yeah, I have that same deal come up. It's kinda discouraging when what I consider some of my best pictures only get a few views and one line comments because it's not something sexual.

On the issue though, while I'm not in the habit of looking for explicit porn on FA, I don't see why anyone (within FA that is) that would have a problem with.

Many people even flamed at me cause I wasn't jsut drawing yiffy stuff anymore!! ^^'

many unwatched me too, same reason.

Thats messed up.....

fact is many people have an account just to fap at porn. No use for them to watch a clean artist! I don't think it's a bad or a good thing, just a matter of fact, actually ^^ The only thing we'd understand is that there IS alot of porn stuff in the furry fandom, and a good amount of furries looking JUST for furry porn ^^

I still say that part of the reason porn covets more attention is because it's easier to relate to and comment on. Of course the "Nice ass" comment isn't much different from the dreaded "Cute" one-liner. :D

Speaking of such squirrels Winger has been seen updating his site after a few months break.

I don't get why people suddenly care about a presence of porn on FA. =U

me neither x3 it's irritating

Actually, you make a really good point :3
I never thought of it that way ^-^;

This has to be the fifth time since I've seriously begun using FurAffinity (which really wasn't all that long ago truth be told) that I've seen the porn/non-porn issue come up in serious debate on this site...and I honestly don't understand why people can't just be happy there's a place to look at furry work, be it pornographic or not. I think there's a place for both here and on other sites, besides, that's what the "adult" filter is for...

As for what you've said, I would have to agree. How many strictly non-fur communities would come up with some of the crazy ass stuff we do (not that there's anything wrong with crazy ass stuff). It's kinda why I'm in the fandom...because of how off the wall it can be.

Yep, quite well said.

That's definitely a worthy point! Or, in Strype's case, he can just save us all the crap and GTFO if he can't put up with it.

I have problems with such things as this, and I mean the choice of words.

But what I make of it is that YOU are confirming the stereotype that Furs (parts, not the stereotype that ALL are the same.) are perverts with ideas most would find the "bottom of porn" or the "last bits of sexual dignity", quotation from a guy that I see often that for some reason has a good negative comment for everything, including why people are born with happiness.

I see it just slightly differently. I don't see 'em as making animals look and act like humans, I see it as modifying (*cough* upgrading :P) humans with new traits, and as the fetishes kick in, often new abilities. We just keep pushing the limits of what we can experience in our imaginations, and that often inspires these artists and the people who view their work. Now read that last sentance again; it can be applied to both clean and adult work. :3

Cheers to Furrys!

totally agree with you there mif-maf. good art is good, porn or not

"Anyone can draw a squirrel with boobs the size of dump trucks and 15 cocks but it really takes a true artist to make that appealing."

Truer words have yet to be spoken. <3

I agree...

but then, I don't believe that the fandom should feel compelled to draw porn, cause somebody begs them to.

there really needs to be a healthy balance, of artists, who draw beautifully, and do so, on a SFW level.

what i don't much like hearing, is when nonfurs reference my fandom [spoken as a loyalty to it] and comment relating to the fact that it's saturated with fetishes, and sex. I really hear a lot of people who think we're really wierd, and i simply can't deny them. I've SEEN pics of furs with trucksize boobs, in octets...with matching malebits.
THEY EXIST.

but what is the view of the rest of the world, should they stumble across this sort of thing?!

it is so easy for us to establish a negative image. or best hope, is to express the true meaning of furry to those who have not stumbled upon Doug Winger yet. so that if they do, they'll take it with a grain of salt. rather than judge us as a whole by it.

I honestly love how our fandom has a fetish for everyone, and eveyone has at least one. I really cherish and I love to explore other peoples fetishes, to see if they might not rub off on me. but I don't want to see our whole fandom, as a giant sex orgy.

I want the sexual aspects to be a room in a house. if you open the door, come in, or close it. there are other places you can be, if you don't like what's in the room.

I like both porn (but only to a limit) and general-type artwork.

First of all, I find it hard to believe that people think that some weird fetishes are found ONLY in the furry when in fact they're found in any fandom imaginable. (I am also an anime fan and saw them as well, but don't get me started on that.)

As for females with HUGE breasts the size of dump trucks or men with multi-dicks, they also existed in other fandoms as well.

While I do draw porn, I had to take breaks from them by drawing general-rated artwork.

...or you could say that all furries are perverted zoophiles who are in the furdom solely for the porn, and the more they try denying it, the more they actually are =x

But that would be sooo offending to these poor saps now, wouldn't it? =3

I think everyone likes porn and anyone who doesn't there is something wrong with them, or they don't know what they're missing.

HOWEVER!

I will admit that a lot of the "fetishes" on here are disturbing and I would say that I'm not into 99% of them, and think they are totally strange, but that's my opinion and I never confront these artists and tell them what they're doing is "wrong" it's none of my business and I'm no so self-important that I seek out and display the flaws of others. I've gone years without drawing porn, but the second I did it became like an obsession and my FAP gallery was almost composed of nothing but. Now I'm trying to slowly ween myself off it again. In hopes of trying not to seem like a total pervert.

All-in-all, some people like it hot, and some people like it cold. That's all there is to it. Who are we to judge.

200% agree with this journal.

"The Internet is for porn, the Internet is for porn..."

indeed here here!

this is the best thing I read about the pron/non pron question

Yes, animals do provide the opportunity for more creativity, especially when it comes to porn. However, I can't really agree that furry porn artists really push the boundaries of emotion (even if they certainly do with sexuality). I find far, far less erotica and romance in furry artwork than flat-out porn, and that really annoys me to no end.

But then, most people's interpretation of human porn is what shows up when you search for "sex" on Google. That stuff is terrible.

Wait... is "sex" still the most searched word on Google, or is that just a myth? The sheer hypocrisy of criticizing furries for being obsessed with porn is another thing that never seems to sink into the minds of the general public.

At the very core of the argument though, is the idea that pornography is somehow a bad or shameful thing. It's acquired this stigma due to preachifyin' moralizers, and in reality it is completely unfounded. All reputable research has found that looking at porn causes no harmful effects whatsoever. And while there hasn't been as much study in this area, it doesn't look like pornography has any harmful impact on _children_ viewing it either.

The obvious conclusion (to me, anyway) is that porn is no different from movies, music, video games or any other artwork that has come under fire for 'making people do violent things'. It's all bullshit, in *every* case. No image has ever reached into the real world, grabbed someone by the lapels, and forced them to kill or rape or anything else. Only a mind too damaged to tell right from wrong In The first Place would take inspiration from a Marilyn Manson CD or copy of Hustler and go commit a crime. And even then, it is not the media's fault. Personal responsibility exists, regardless of politicians' unending attempts to pretend it doesn't.

Also, it's worthwhile to point out that _everything_ the church has ever said about sex is beyond backwards. I've yet to see an exception. ;)

After all the very first art was porn and animals :P

Hay, I hadn't thought of that! Very true! :)

Damn, now I wanna know if people in ancient Egypt didn't occasionally draw Anubis porn too...

the only art most are familiar with are the carvings on walls but the egyptians were actually quite advanced in observational art and perspective too. Unfortunately most of that stuff was done on papyrus so not much remains, but there are a few examples I'm sure. I doubt any anubis porn survived tho :D

Interesting stuff! Too bad about the porns though. Actually, now that I think about it, aside from the occasional fertility statue, I've seen precious little archeological porn. Maybe it's to preserve the mystical images some of these cultures have, and maybe the archeologists are just smuggling it all home to fap to...

and then you look at greek and roman stuff and almost everything is porn :P

Hee hee; true! I've seen Greek soup bowls where you get to the end of your meal and, hey, there's gay sex in your bowl! :D

Porn versus non-porn? Is that what it's come down to?

The idea that sex in the fandom is somehow what the fandom is about, and that if you would like to see less of it, and more of other things, then perhaps you're not seeing the point?

...I joined this grouping some years after I had already found my interests in what could be called furry by some. I joined it because it was a group of people who seemed to enjoy the idea of anthro animals, who had a bit of the human in them, and a good dose of the more natural, animalistic instinct in them as well. That's all.

Over time, it changed though. It became an appreciation for other people's imagination and how they applied it to their art and writing and animation skills. I found myself appreciating the pictures for their artistic qualities... not just because it was full of sex or not. Lately, the sex images you find explore a wide range of things. But sadly enough, that range... isn't so wide. Or very original. It's just the same concepts rehashed over and over and over. For me, as has been the case for the longest time, the point isn't the sex, or the fetishes or the weirdness. And it's not the absence of these things either. It's the ART.

ART. Not porn. not non-porn. Art. I believe that this is what it's really all about. Not how much you can jerk off to a picture, or how you can gaze at one and be able to really see how things would work if anthros really existed. But how you can look at a picture and *FEEL* something as you're gazing at it. how you can have your mind run wild when you read a story. And simple enjoyment, I suppose, though I think therein lies part of the failing of the fandom.

Also? A squirrel with boobs the size of dumptrucks and 15 cocks is to me another problem. NO ONE has yet managed to make anything like this appealing. EVER. (link me an image if I'm wrong.) And even as we push the boundaries of what we do in the fandom... a *few* limits never hurt anyone. Next it'll be a squirrel with two heads, four arms, six boobs the size of tractor trailers, 30 cocks with faces on them and each with their own arms and legs... you get the idea. And without limits, people will look at such a thing, go 'WTH *IS* that~!?' to themselves... then because they don't want to hurt someone's feelings with a negative comment or want to be seen as thinking in a direction other than the majority, they'll post a half hearted encouragement, or request more of the same. In some few cases, they'll convince themselves this is what they *wanted* to see in the first place.

Sorry. That was a bit of a rant, but i think I'll leave it, just to let people see how I think a little. No offense is meant, if anyone is taking any. This is just my mind on these things.

Also? A squirrel with boobs the size of dumptrucks and 15 cocks is to me another problem. NO ONE has yet managed to make anything like this appealing. EVER.

Don't you mean no one has ever made it appealing to you? Granted, it isn't appealing to me either, but it is to some people.. otherwise I'm not sure why it would be drawn, other than to explore the limits of creativity.

I admit that that is a better way of phrasing it... but I also think it's true in the other sense as well. ^_^ At least, not that they then felt like posting up on the internet for people to see! XD

But my point was simply this. A big part of the fandom is the freedom people feel within it. But sometimes... it's as if people feel they have to push and push the limits of sanity or... believability to keep things fresh. *chuckles* To be honest, it's gotten to the point lately that basic, old fashioned sex is becoming hard to find anymore, and I find that to be both funny... and a little scary. >_>

Sometimes, the sex that people see around them makes them feel they have to go along to fit in... and then they also feel that to make what they do stand out, they have to make it unique... which often translates into things ranging from the strange to the VERY strange. And yes, I'm aware that 'strange' is a concept based in personal perception... but it's also based in something that everyone recognizes, whether they admit to it or not. There is simply a point where *anyone* is likely to see something, go wide eyed and then be forced to grope blindly for the eye bleach.