I find it's kind of tragic how little artists get paid in relation to their time and effort. And it's a bigger pity I can barely afford the rock-bottom prices a lot of decent artists charge, because they deserve more, but to charge more makes them inaccessible to the fandom.

To be fair, I think artists know that what we do for a living is a luxury to others and as a luxury, it is among the first things to be cut when finances are tight. Given that, we already prepare ourselves, often by keeping prices lower and earning less than maybe we should in a 'fair world'. So given the prior it is extremely hurtful to hear comments judging our personal character and assumption of ego based on our prices. If more people appreciated the fact that they are reaping the benefits of this fantastic unique trade, artists would, on the whole probably mind less about charging less than they are worth. Most artists are passionate about what they do and just knowing the price cut is appreciated will help give a sense of gratification to creating. Financial considerations are a harsh reality that everyone must face, but being insulted or judged personally based on a pricetag that may be out of context to the viewer, is not something art folk should have to deal with (imho!).

^this
Completely agreed

And you're right! There's never really an excuse to be rude, ever.

AMEN SISTER !!

- Fennec

People don't realize that although I charge $15 to $20 on a colored sketch ($20 being refined and having variances in colors like this one I did: http://www.furaffinity.net/view/11041865/) I work on it for upwards of three hours. A lot of my art takes a loooong time, and I try to get it done as soon as I can.

SO. Not only am I working bellow minimum wage, but I put strain on my body and my eyes (computers can rape your eyes no joke, you can go blind after years of overuse). So by the end of it, I'm worn down, my body hurts (from sitting so long) and my eyes are dry and tired.

People don't realize how much work artists put into art. Just because they love to draw doesn't mean they should charge dirt cheap or draw your OCs for free.

Read her journal and a few of the comments below it, so thanks for that. I've known a few artists so I had a very vague concept beforehand about the true "cost" of putting money, material, and especially time/effort into things like that. I have to admit that I've never purchased a work of art (yet) but I've always bore in mind that I'd intentionally over-pay the artist for their work. It's just something that I've always told myself. Not only that, but buying something like that is worth more to me than the material itself. This is why I often feel a bit guilty seeing these works online because the image and effort therein is all the true value to me. It's like pirating music, which I'll never do.

Now on a side note, seeing those works of art is also a very humbling experience. I find that every artist I've met or spoken to through other means are some of the most respectful and supportive people around. As a community, it's quite a beautiful thing to see.

Something relating to me would be when I'm out with a group at some convention for sales of "other items". I'm very conscious of the vendors and when I can tell someone is about to inadvertently bash the seller's prices or items within earshot, I'll stop them and re-direct the conversation or, if I'm too late, "correct their memory" and say something positive about the person's items. At those, I'm pretty picky myself since everything there is in a different condition. I don't even handle items unless I have to check something on it, am serious about purchasing it, and have permission to do so. I will say that the few art shows/fairs I've been to never had depictions like these. That's why I "haunt" here.

I can't say I've ever felt that an artist deserved anything less than what they asked for their creations. Money for most of us is a representation of one's time and effort in this day and age (how long the fiat money lasts is disputable...). Seeing artists hurting in person would be an absolutely deflating experience for me. Hearing of it gets to me too. Some people have never had that brought to their attention, so yes, I do hope they get a hold of that journal entry and have their understanding changed for the better.

Be strong, those of you who've been subjected to such an attitude.

Most artists in the Furry Fandom are dirt cheap when you think about it and severely undercut themselves. It's kinda ridiculous that I live in an artist community where most original pieces go for more than $10K. I guess the clientele can afford it though...

I'm thinking of writing a journal on this topic myself. Basically I agree with everything she said, but I think having more artists come out about their pricing and what goes into it can only help spread knowledge and awareness of this—which should in turn result in a more educated and understanding fandom.

I hope.

I think it would help, too. I try to talk about it now and then, but it seems like an especially good time to bring it up again. I'd like to see what you'd say about it!

The sad truth is that folks are willing to pay more for digital mature works involving their own characters (which often take LESS time) than a beautiful and tasteful real media piece.. BUT that's another can of worms.


I have found that the average client does not care as much about the time spent as the look of the end product.. if we are to treat this as a business, which it honestly is, shortcuts must be found to be profitable. Which means sometimes *gasp* letting go of perfection (guilty as charged) and settling for good enough. I'm there all the time, trust me. I could agonize over a piece for ages, but in the end, the client hardly ever can tell that you have agonized over a detail for 2 hours.

That's not to say that you shouldn't put all your skill into it. Half-assed work shows. But it does mean walking away before you may be 100% satisfied, because as artists we are our worst critic.

Sometimes it means settling for slightly less pricy materials, so we can offer a lower priced product.

Sounds like Wal-mart doesn't it? Well... we may have to be at times.


If you've ever been to Paris, you know the street artists. The ones with the cans of spray paint.. they can create a cosmos scene in 15 minutes. They have found shortcuts, tricks and have perfected their methods. Yes, they lose a little of their originality and their individuality, but they can create a product that is profitable.

It's a fine balance...

It is a balance and I think most artists do aim to adapt to the realities of life. In the case of artists that lean towards a fine art path versus illustration (neither being objectively more or less valid/valuable than the other), they still try to offer works of art that take them less time and are more financially affordable to the masses (or elsewise offer prints and other merchandise that is also affordable) . However, in this case, I think the artist was explaining why her art show prices were what they are. Many artists use art shows to showcase their work and bring something more unique to them and more representative of them as an artistic entity. In the end the real point is, it's rude to make remarks on the perceived value of the art but ruder still to draw conclusions about the artist's personal character and ego based on these numbers.

For myself, I use the fandom as a place to exercise my real vision. I found the fandom in a roundabout way when a friend told me there were folks that enjoyed the kind of work I did specifically and hey were even willing to support this vision's continuation financially. WOW, I was gobsmacked and overwhelmed when during my first convention I sold out of everything I brought in the first 10 minutes of being there. Mind you I didn't bring a lot but it was an awakening and mainly that there were people who could appreciate what I did and having some financial incentive allowed me the privilege to continue creating it. However, as a balance to this, I also do work outside the fandom in commercial circles (and that is my main bread and butter). I find it easier to offer work I am more detached from to people who don't necessarily have an intimate emotional attachment to the commission (IE people are very sentimentally attached to their personal characterizations). For me offering work that I couldn't put myself into at lowered rates just ended up ruining the enjoyment I had in creating my own work. I didn't want to give my clients something that I felt wasn't earnest I guess? And because the same audience indulges my personal artistic whims, I had a really hard time creating a mental divide between personal art and commissioned art. So now I take less work in the fandom and more commercial work and when I do take fandom commissions, I try to take commissions that I can care about and express myself in. I am also slowly finding ways I can offer more affordable custom work to folks while still expressing myself in these works. I'm not saying every artist should do this or that my way is the moral highground or whatnot, but rather this works for me. This way I can enjoy the fandom and fandom commissions I do and can still keep my bills paid without feeling emotionally torn.

phew, sorry for the mouthful!

*nodnod* I should be clear here, that my brain just took a run with the subject matter. I fully agree about all that Nambroth said

It was more a 'hmm maybe we (as artists) can offer more affordable work if we try some different approaches'

I personally am so horrendously slow... my prices are higher than others. It makes me less competitive for sure.. lucky enough I am not the one bringing home all the money. I've tried to streamline my processes but I just keep falling back on old methods that I like better. On top of that I am a terribly thrifty person (as in.. I still use Open Canvas... I just cannot bring myself to getting something better out of fear that I will hate it and wont recoup the cost).

I would love to call myself a professional, but I certainly don't feel that way. So much I do not know.. and frankly new things scare me *laugh* I am yet to go to a con.. as much as I want to. And I have been working in the fandom for 12 years!

Very good read, thanks for linking. :)

It is a sad truth, unfortunately. I think most artists have their own stories and experiences regarding the subject matter. Everyone handles it differently.
I had a friend of mine say something to me that made me quite sad. I know he didn't mean any harm by it at all, he just simply doesn't understand. He told me, "I think its awesome that you're doing it and everything, you're really talented, by why the hell would anyone actually pay money for art?"

Needless to say I was a little shocked and taken aback. I think a lot of people would have been inflamed by a comment like that, but like I mentioned before, it just made me sad. Sure, art is a luxury. You cannot drink it, eat it, live in it. But everyone is different, and not everyone has the same appreciation for things. For instance, I am willing to spend thousands on a vacation or trip (granted, you know, I won't die of starvation afterwards), and that would completely astound some people. Some spend insane amounts on other luxuries, like fancy cars, hardwood flooring, plastic surgery, alcohol/drugs, prostitutes, what have you. Everyone is different and that is respectable, but the amount of rude people out there is just so..saddening.

Art is everywhere, although most people don't even notice it anymore. Grab a box of celestial seasonings tea... fantastic artwork! It's in magazines, in books, on packages, posters, clothes. Folks just don't notice it.

It takes art to make the world what it is... Designing food, clothes, medicine... war plans, the next mass produced toy technology... homes, dildos, frozen food packaging, and whatever passes for entertainment... "Luxuries", indeed. I totally suck at manifesting ideas through my pen, but consider me inflamed. Ignorance is a choice. Art is life.

Frankly, I just think that now because we have the internet and anything you want can be found almost instantly at the click of a send button, people never stop to think of how long the thing they are instantly are looking at took to make, and thus have developed an attitude that all things should come as free and quickly as clicking a search browser.

I usually spend around a full work week on my paintings, sometimes more. so few realize the amount of time put into them.

while i agree artists should get paid something more then minimum wage for their time and effort. and i think its wonderful some people are able to earn their living doing something as enjoyable and rewarding both for themselves and others, at the same time i also think, there are too many things in this world, this life, this dominant culture, that have been made to begin and end and be about, little green pieces of paper.

there are things i want people to be able to see. to be able to think about. NOT because they're in my head, or because i'm concerned with what they think about me, but because there is a more rewarding kind of world we could all be living in, if we didn't put symbolic value ahead of real gratification.

i am aware that landlords and grocers want to get paid, and even tools to do anything with are seldom free either, but i'm also aware, that there is nothing so intrinsic to the dominant way of life and its prevailing assumptions, as to limit existence absolutely and entirely, to the combinations we are familiar with.

so i WANT artists to be able to eat regular and enjoy all the good things in life, but its not like i can afford to support their doing so.

i've been accused of being lazy, and maybe its accurate and maybe its not, for refusing to support a dominant way of life i don't believe in, and i know i could have had more and done more otherwise, but i really seriously doubt i would have gotten any more enjoyment, or even as much, out of doing so.

I'm not entirely sure I understand what, in summation, you are trying to say (no offense intended, I'm just trying to understand what your message was C: )