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Babyfur/Diaperfur community
12 years ago
Here's the scoop
This is largely in response to an article "How to be a babyfur" and the survey accompanying it.
I actually believe that tallying up the amount of babyfurs/diaperfurs is a splendid idea, and there are some positive themes within the article, such as loving yourself and your sexual identity/or just identity if the paraphilia isn't explicitly sexual for you.
I do have some feedback and criticisms for the post/article, however.
My criticism is aimed at the article/post accompanying this survey, and not so much this survey itself.
The article asked babyfurs to be proud of who they are, to love themselves and to engage in their sexual identity, because it is unhealthy to avoid these aspects of ourselves. And this is true, and it's a positive theme I wholeheartedly agree with.
But before we even reach this part of the article, we've already read about "fringe members" of the paraphilia who are to be denounced as an inaccurate portrayal of all babyfurs.
These "fringe element" people clearly love themselves and participating in their paraphilia, and being a part of the babyfur/diaperfur community in general. Admittedly, some are overzealous to be certain, but publicly denouncing their behavior or policing their behavior, regardless of whether or not you agree with it, is wrong.
I believe what the article post was likely trying to attack was the issue of engaging non-participants in a paraphilia in a non-consentual manner. And I TOTALLY agree that engaging others that would likely not consent to the paraphilia is wrong. But instead of flat-out saying so, the post instead sends it's reader a mixed message.
"I should love myself but not too much? I'm disgusting for having thoughts of public-play? I'm not a part of the community because you're ashamed of me?"
I happily admit to thoughts of public play (As if you haven't seen my drawings), and even admit to engaging in public play a few times, but generally with willing participants, and never in a manner noticeable to those around me. These people, and myself included, are a part of the community. No diaperfur or babyfur gets to disassociate themselves from us just because of the nature of our paraphilia. If you believe that this sort of behavior is inappropriate, that is FINE. You likely aren't alone. And you don't have to engage in it. But I am not ashamed of this aspect of my sexuality. You are. and that is YOUR problem.
This debate has occurred in the LGBTQ community as well. That the femme-party-gay fringe is an inaccurate representation of the gay-community. It's not. Not really. They certainly exist, and they are gay, and they are part of the community. The gay people disassociating themselves from these "fringe elements" only wind up hurting their own cause, empowering the homophobes that denounce their behavior. If you love the LGBTQ community, love it as a whole.
Likewise, If you love the babyfur and diaperfur communities, love it as a whole. Please, PLEASE don't disassociate yourselves from an aspect of a community you're ashamed of or disagree with, because when you do, you continually empower people that aren't a part of the community, and give them power over you, your perception of yourself, and your sexual identity.
TL;DR version
Your article sends mixed messages by telling us to be open but to not be open.
This debate is as old as time, and as I've said previously, occurs ALL THE TIME in the LGBTQ community, and even within the furry community (regarding the sfw/nsfw content).
Be wholly supportive of your communities, whatever they may be. Don't pick and choose.
Thanks for reading this.
-Sharky
I actually believe that tallying up the amount of babyfurs/diaperfurs is a splendid idea, and there are some positive themes within the article, such as loving yourself and your sexual identity/or just identity if the paraphilia isn't explicitly sexual for you.
I do have some feedback and criticisms for the post/article, however.
My criticism is aimed at the article/post accompanying this survey, and not so much this survey itself.
The article asked babyfurs to be proud of who they are, to love themselves and to engage in their sexual identity, because it is unhealthy to avoid these aspects of ourselves. And this is true, and it's a positive theme I wholeheartedly agree with.
But before we even reach this part of the article, we've already read about "fringe members" of the paraphilia who are to be denounced as an inaccurate portrayal of all babyfurs.
These "fringe element" people clearly love themselves and participating in their paraphilia, and being a part of the babyfur/diaperfur community in general. Admittedly, some are overzealous to be certain, but publicly denouncing their behavior or policing their behavior, regardless of whether or not you agree with it, is wrong.
I believe what the article post was likely trying to attack was the issue of engaging non-participants in a paraphilia in a non-consentual manner. And I TOTALLY agree that engaging others that would likely not consent to the paraphilia is wrong. But instead of flat-out saying so, the post instead sends it's reader a mixed message.
"I should love myself but not too much? I'm disgusting for having thoughts of public-play? I'm not a part of the community because you're ashamed of me?"
I happily admit to thoughts of public play (As if you haven't seen my drawings), and even admit to engaging in public play a few times, but generally with willing participants, and never in a manner noticeable to those around me. These people, and myself included, are a part of the community. No diaperfur or babyfur gets to disassociate themselves from us just because of the nature of our paraphilia. If you believe that this sort of behavior is inappropriate, that is FINE. You likely aren't alone. And you don't have to engage in it. But I am not ashamed of this aspect of my sexuality. You are. and that is YOUR problem.
This debate has occurred in the LGBTQ community as well. That the femme-party-gay fringe is an inaccurate representation of the gay-community. It's not. Not really. They certainly exist, and they are gay, and they are part of the community. The gay people disassociating themselves from these "fringe elements" only wind up hurting their own cause, empowering the homophobes that denounce their behavior. If you love the LGBTQ community, love it as a whole.
Likewise, If you love the babyfur and diaperfur communities, love it as a whole. Please, PLEASE don't disassociate yourselves from an aspect of a community you're ashamed of or disagree with, because when you do, you continually empower people that aren't a part of the community, and give them power over you, your perception of yourself, and your sexual identity.
TL;DR version
Your article sends mixed messages by telling us to be open but to not be open.
This debate is as old as time, and as I've said previously, occurs ALL THE TIME in the LGBTQ community, and even within the furry community (regarding the sfw/nsfw content).
Be wholly supportive of your communities, whatever they may be. Don't pick and choose.
Thanks for reading this.
-Sharky
Here's the post. The poll is linked at the end of the post.
To put it one way, I'm black. Does that mean that I should support gang violence, drug use, abuse or any of said negatives just because they exist and are part of the black community? Of course I support the black community and the positives of what it stands for but not it's negatives.
For me, it's much the same with babyfur/diaperfurs. I'd be stupid to say I'm not a diaperfur and I don't enjoy the community, but there are aspects and entities of the community I do not support or want to associate with and would quite honestly, would love to see less of in the community! Am I saying people that fit under that category should be removed from the community? No... but let's face it. These negatives DO make it harder on other persons in the community to want to associate with it or be themselves.
We all know that being black isn't synonymous with gang violence or drug use, and we all know that being gay isn't synonymous with rampant Ecstasy abuse and unprotected sex. Those are individual choices made by individual members of our respective communities, they do not define the community. I agree that the choices people make within a community have the chance to effect the community as a whole. I don't think anyone would dispute that. But it's not up to use to decide that they aren't a fit representation of the community. They are, we just don't like that they are.
I think the main things where I'm a bit conflicted is the fact some of these negative aspects/representatives/fringe element persons, whatever fits there, do ruin it for others and make it harder for them to express themselves. Where I get upset is when pretty much, when someone whom is new to the community, not to indulged on the edge of the community, or someone who is a good representative of the community gets flack because of an idiot's actions.
For me, I'm not against people engaging in their sexuality and such.... but I am against those that do so disrespectfully to others both with in the community and outside of it.
I'm sorry if I'm being a bit confusing... I'm having a hard time putting my thoughts down on text which is why I'm writing a lot... Also, a lot of what I'm saying comes from my own experiences... so of course is a bit biased.. XD
And yes, it's the latter. x3
Also, to be clear, sexual identity isn't intrinsically insubstantial. Some people spend many years figuring out who they are sexually. Of course, their sexual identity obviously isn't the defining factor in who they are, but that's sort of what my journal was about.
It -especially- bothers me in the LGBTQ community, since it seems really uncomfortably rampant.
Personally... I'm not a fan of speaking out about my sexual interests. That's a large part about what I enjoy about the diaperfur community though, is that they're the least judgemental people I've ever met, and you guys all kinds of awesome for it.
I'm still not sure if I could 'come out' about this, and I'm definitely not confident enough to defend myself if confronted on the issue. So until I can cross that threshold, I think I'll happily enjoy my interests in privacy, contrary to what this article was suggesting of speaking out about it. :3
If history has taught me anything, it's to expect the worst. Hope for the best. And be glad when change comes around.
*snrks* Change.
Kinda like how you don't need to know the full details HOW your car works, so long as you know to get a tune up every now and then, and that you should get your oil changed every 3,000 miles. ^.=.^
IYAM TIRED. :I
We're all furries with different interests. That doesnt mean we cant be friends!
But what do you think these fringe elements are honestly detrimental to? Our acceptance in a community that places vapid double-standards on paraphilia, sex, and sexual orientation? (this goes for both the Furry, AB/DL and LGBTQ communities).
The entire point of my post is that everyone needs to mind their own business and stop trying to tell other people, who engage in consensuall acts of sex, how to live. If you want to tell off a rapist, that is A-OK. If someone is engaging you in their paraphilia non-consensually, tell them to fuck off, go to hell, and die! But none of us are ill, diseased, or mentally disturbed for engaging in our sexual identities in a consensual manner.
Ru Paul's (and any other) Drag queens engage in their sexuality in a consensual manner, although it may be in a somewhat public spectacle. That is just who they are. Many diaperfurs/babyfurs do the same. They MAY wear their little marci/babyfur con badges, but that is practically it.
There is only negative story I've EVER heard about inappropriate diaper-play was at a public furry venue.
I can assure that MUCH of the stories you may have heard about the community stem from one single story that was falsified in jokes/allegations made by a very unfunny comedian at one specific convention. The stories were HIGHLY exaggerated, and suddenly his jokes spread like wildfire and EVERYONE is somehow a victim of the same diaper-fur in said convention elevator.
TL;DR
People that are a poor representation of these and any community you are a part of will always pop up, and there's nothing you can do about it because, ultimately, we are incapable of changing how others want to behave. But you know what, it's okay! Because ultimately another individuals behavior doesn't reflect on you in any way (Unless you have children haha). So it is up to us to be a little more self-concerned, attempt to portray the positive aspects of the community, and be a little less interested/worried about how the behavior of someone we've never met reflects upon us.
The same thing could be said of any bad behavior that furries might engage in.
1. Drawing adult artwork in your sketchbook at the McDonald's = Some impressionable youth might see!
2. Having any kind of con sex too loudly in your hotel room = Unwilling people will hear the sounds of your lust and possibly bad words too!
3. Wearing a fursuit in any capacity? = That's disgusting, everyone knows those are for fucking!
Long story short, the writer of the article and some of the responses seem to indicate there are a bunch of stuck-up prudes in the fandom who can't stand to see people engage in activities they don't agree with, regardless of what those activities might be.
To simplify, let me list some things that people are going to complain about in the furry fandom.
- Being too gay
- Clothes made out of rubber
- Excessive alcohol
- Pornography
- Public displays of affection
- Too many fat people with acne
- Fursuit with bondage harnesses
- Everything else in existence...
What is all this "engaging unwilling participants" that keeps getting thrown around? How many cases are there of baby furs forcibly diapering people?
This just in, seeing someone's diaper peeking out of their waistband is not a big deal.
Also, having to smell someone's stale piss-pants in public is also not the end of the world. Ever been in public? People smell. (Old people especially)
Just hold your nose and move on people.
The furry fandom isn't a democracy where a select group of elites get to decide what's allowed in public places. It's more like reality, where people do whatever they want, other people get offended by it, and life goes on.
Lastly, just a note to anyone who is offended by seeing anything they deem sexual in a public setting, your moral code is not law. Just because you were taught that sex was naughty and needs to be hidden doesn't mean it's true. Please try to name one thing morally wrong about wearing a diaper in public.
You're not being oppressed by not being allowed to shit/piss yourself around others who don't deserve to smell you, it's simply being polite and reasonable. Can you wear a diaper in public? Sure, with clothes on. If it peaks out by itself? Fine! Normal underwear does so and I personally view diapers as just another form of underwear, because they are! Can you walk into a movie theater in just a wet diaper and teddy bear, scream BOO BOO BA GEEEEEE, and fill your seat while everyone looks on disgusted? NO. It has nothing to do with being deemed "sexual".
You are correct that there is nothing morally wrong about wearing a diaper in public, or using it as long as no one who is not an AB/DL themselves can see/smell it. There IS a problem when your forcing other people to see/smell your own excrement.
I'm not trying to be mean, i'm just trying to clarify the "unwilling participants" issue. Please don't be mad! crinklebutt
That said, the babyfur community doesn't need to be ostracized because a very small number of exhibitionists decided to stink up a hallway/elevator. That would be like blaming all gay furs because someone dropped a shit-covered condom outside the front door of the hotel.
Lastly, I'd like to point out that there is no such thing as olfactory rape.
You smell strangers crap all the time whenever you use a public restroom. You smell dog crap when you walk past a trash can in the park on a hot day. You smell crap all the time and shrug it off. Just because you're smelling someone crap doesn't mean they are including you in their sex fantasy. You don't have to feel anymore violated than you would if you were walking past a line of geriatrics and one of them soiled themselves.
You can pick your friends; you can pick your nose. But you can't pick your friend's nose.
Er, wait... Shit. Well said, anywho.
I mean truly we should just look at the community as a while and love every aspect of it no matter what it is and really sure we can have mixed emotions about those "Fringe elements" but it is just wrong to openly target them in a way and really it does just damage the identity of the group as a whole and give power to those outside and same can be said for the LGBTQ community as well.
Still I just cant get over this so great, great job dude!