Popularity in the Fandom: From My Perspective
12 years ago
Hokay, so I came across a Journal posted here that, while having great things to say, was said in a rather base manner. Gonna run with it and talk about what I've picked up the... shit, it's July, so officially ten years of being around the Fandom. I guess this'll be rather long-winded, but direct and Realtalky, so here goes if you're down for the TL;DR. I'll also be breaking it up with periodic bulletpoints to kinda square up on the same page and give you a lil insight on how I see things... or how I want to see things and am still working on myself lol:
First off, I'll explain my opinion from experience on the dynamics of popularity, and how it can be a good thing, and a bad thing. Note that it extends beyond, but gonna keep it relevant so keeping within the bounds of the Fandom.
So, I got into Furry through myriad means (Kimahri Ronso and then werewolf porn), and for a year or so, I only knew, like, three, four people casually and built up through Yahoo Groups, IM and then DeviantArt. They pulled me in due to the fact that they were pretty cool, and at the time, I was also new to the Internet, so interacting with people all over was p swank shit.
I did do art, but a lot of it wasn't remarkable (skill-wise, though I do think I had some ambition back then that I wanna recollect lol), so nobody knew me as my "artist name" Silver Fenrir, they just knew me as Fen. I actually got a long with the people I came across, but there were, of course, some dicks that would even bluntly wonder why I was associated (at the time) with big name artists like Cooper, Strype and TiLL. I found it humorous that it mattered, was something new to me as well, so I ran with it, no fuss, no muss.
First Break
-- We are all like that; we all will find something on others that we want, whether it be friendship or not. It's human nature, and the sooner you understand this, the less angry you get when somebody flakes out or turns out to be a user.
-- Deep admiration should be earned, not given. You shouldn't automatically see somebody as a saint or a terrible person given a passive glance at somebody's life. Only if you have extensive knowledge and tangible evidence without much to dissuade a conclusion should you even do more than passively note on a person's characteristics.
-- That aside, initial impressions are fine, as long as you have a sense of chivalrous respect about you. Maybe it was a bad day for them, or maybe it was an extremely good day for them, you only know what little you see or hear, so no need to close the book and write your synopsis if you haven't turned a page.
-- Times change things. Sometimes it can change people as they grow, or deal with what they pick up through life. Accept that time changes things and be grateful for what good sticks throughout, even if it turns into a memory. Which leads to the next section...:
lol Okay, so Y!Gallery popped up and I was going through a rather tremulous personal period. The good of that lead to me drawing more porn, and I got ushered over to FA with the Infamous Furry Exodus with a few prominent artists, unexpectedly boosting my signal as an artist. Things started to change, where I started to get more involved with the Fandom, going to cons, meeting people through the sites, etc. And things changed, got a bit more real as I personally formed some new bonds and lost previous ones. I started to shun artists due to my misconception of what seemed to be the cliquey thing to do in the Fandom, even to the point of being abrasive and judgmental when I'd call artists on their mannerisms.
I did start to get more IMs though, meet more people. People started calling me "SF" instead of Fen, introducing me as "that artist guy" instead of Fen. Talkin about art and Furry artists instead of their life or interesting shit. People that shunned me didn't anymore, and some even saw me as a completely new person, shocked when I'd mentioned that we'd met before. But hey; no fuss, no muss.
Break Two
-- I have friends that are artists, but most are actually not. I go with what I can associate, and while it's cool to talk art shit every blue moon, it bores me to no end if it's just that. Same goes for somebody with that one topic they just won't leave alone.
-- I don't know if I consider myself as an artist. I like to do art, and I've been doing it a lot, but I wanna be known for being more than just some artist guy. Prolly why I'm still learning things I should have a firmer grasp on, but c'est la vie
-- On judging artists (or anybody actually): Not saying everybody I've come across, but a lot tend to have a weird social anxiety, or a "fight or flight" mentality when shit gets heavy. Many are socially awkward and can't handle the pressure of interaction (even if it can be admittedly painfully awkward and/or abrasive at times). While some can't handle their bubble of fame well and it does go to their head, some are actually nice once you understand that they're socially timid or defensive.
-- Not disclaiming that there aren't any dicks in the Fandom (artist or otherwise), fuck those guys. I mean, lookit me, total dickhead lol
So, now. There's a saturation of really solid artists in the Fandom now; names don't hold quite as much power as they once did, which is a good thing. People are being a bit more personal, social, and though there are some awkward points at times, it's a lot smoother socially than it once was. Granted, it's a lot more cynical in nature, negative at times, but also human nature lol
Good thing is that I'm back to being Fen again, or, rather, Rrowdy to some people, which is fine. People still know me through my art stuff (I mean, c'mon, this FA journal lol), but since I'm past my 15 minute bubble of fame, not nearly as many crazy IMs and interactions. Flipside of that is that some of the interaction, if anything, has been condescending since I can't offer what the now-more prominent artists can, and honestly, I guess I can't. Also get occasionally linked to dramas on Chanboards and Forums where people twist and embellish on aspects of my personal life in threads where my art pops up instead of being like STFU post the porn. I've even had people be flatout asinine simply because I have this mysterious clique and I'm "just a popufur artist" when I can definitely say that it hasn't really gotten me much socially, if not points of embarrassment. Shit sucks, but hey, it happens, and no fuss, no muss.
Speaking of ChanBoards, I'll prolly post a Journal on that later lol
Break Three
-- Don't label people. You might miss out on what they can actually offer 'you', not just what they generally offer.
-- In the end, mostly anything that's going wrong in you life can be traced back to your own decisions. Even if something's not directly your fault, just note what happens so that it doesn't happen again instead of bitching about it and doing nothing but living in the past. lol Trust me when I say that I know this as fact, and yes, it's sometimes very hard to overcome!
-- On the flipside, don't be afraid of getting hurt doing something similar to what got you down the first time (unless it's a 'really' dumb idea). Take better precaution before you try again. Just as bad as living in the past, you shouldn't use your pain as a shield to guard you from a potentially great future. Never stop taking chances. But never stop learning.
-- The Fandom itself is very "young". A lot of the people in it are there for gratuitous entertainment no matter how you slice it. Which is fine as long as you accept the truth of it and run with aspects that you like of it while respecting and neverminding aspects that you don't. Yes, there are awkward situations, and yes, it's oversexed, but so is the world, it's just more concentrated in such a small and rather surprisingly closely-knit community.
-- Respect! Negativity will come back to bite you on the ass, and people innately don't like negative people. If you feel like you're cool in a group talkin shit about others, note that those same people will do the same to you the minute you step out of line. I've said things out of anger quite a few times, hell, my Twitter's littered with random outbursts lol
-- Don't ever be That Guy.
-- Popularity just is. Either you're hot shit, or you're not. Sometimes it has to do with something you do, sometimes it baffles the masses on why and 'that' ends up being why you are. It can be skill, marketing, appeal, sheer luck, or a combination of. If you wanna be popular, wish I could offer more, but it's what I know.
-- Popularity is better for business or broadcasting. It actually sucks for personal life lol
-- Don't ever confuse popularity for love. It's not, and you'll seriously be in a world of hurt thinking so.
So, I guess that's my synopsis of what I've perceived. There are exceptions to the rule, and it's also just my perception based on my own path through the last ten years in the Fandom, and shit, before. Just keep in mind that things change, and there are always gonna be high and low points, not just in the Fandom, but throughout life.
Just run with it, have fun with it, live and learn, no fuss, no muss.
First off, I'll explain my opinion from experience on the dynamics of popularity, and how it can be a good thing, and a bad thing. Note that it extends beyond, but gonna keep it relevant so keeping within the bounds of the Fandom.
So, I got into Furry through myriad means (Kimahri Ronso and then werewolf porn), and for a year or so, I only knew, like, three, four people casually and built up through Yahoo Groups, IM and then DeviantArt. They pulled me in due to the fact that they were pretty cool, and at the time, I was also new to the Internet, so interacting with people all over was p swank shit.
I did do art, but a lot of it wasn't remarkable (skill-wise, though I do think I had some ambition back then that I wanna recollect lol), so nobody knew me as my "artist name" Silver Fenrir, they just knew me as Fen. I actually got a long with the people I came across, but there were, of course, some dicks that would even bluntly wonder why I was associated (at the time) with big name artists like Cooper, Strype and TiLL. I found it humorous that it mattered, was something new to me as well, so I ran with it, no fuss, no muss.
First Break
-- We are all like that; we all will find something on others that we want, whether it be friendship or not. It's human nature, and the sooner you understand this, the less angry you get when somebody flakes out or turns out to be a user.
-- Deep admiration should be earned, not given. You shouldn't automatically see somebody as a saint or a terrible person given a passive glance at somebody's life. Only if you have extensive knowledge and tangible evidence without much to dissuade a conclusion should you even do more than passively note on a person's characteristics.
-- That aside, initial impressions are fine, as long as you have a sense of chivalrous respect about you. Maybe it was a bad day for them, or maybe it was an extremely good day for them, you only know what little you see or hear, so no need to close the book and write your synopsis if you haven't turned a page.
-- Times change things. Sometimes it can change people as they grow, or deal with what they pick up through life. Accept that time changes things and be grateful for what good sticks throughout, even if it turns into a memory. Which leads to the next section...:
lol Okay, so Y!Gallery popped up and I was going through a rather tremulous personal period. The good of that lead to me drawing more porn, and I got ushered over to FA with the Infamous Furry Exodus with a few prominent artists, unexpectedly boosting my signal as an artist. Things started to change, where I started to get more involved with the Fandom, going to cons, meeting people through the sites, etc. And things changed, got a bit more real as I personally formed some new bonds and lost previous ones. I started to shun artists due to my misconception of what seemed to be the cliquey thing to do in the Fandom, even to the point of being abrasive and judgmental when I'd call artists on their mannerisms.
I did start to get more IMs though, meet more people. People started calling me "SF" instead of Fen, introducing me as "that artist guy" instead of Fen. Talkin about art and Furry artists instead of their life or interesting shit. People that shunned me didn't anymore, and some even saw me as a completely new person, shocked when I'd mentioned that we'd met before. But hey; no fuss, no muss.
Break Two
-- I have friends that are artists, but most are actually not. I go with what I can associate, and while it's cool to talk art shit every blue moon, it bores me to no end if it's just that. Same goes for somebody with that one topic they just won't leave alone.
-- I don't know if I consider myself as an artist. I like to do art, and I've been doing it a lot, but I wanna be known for being more than just some artist guy. Prolly why I'm still learning things I should have a firmer grasp on, but c'est la vie
-- On judging artists (or anybody actually): Not saying everybody I've come across, but a lot tend to have a weird social anxiety, or a "fight or flight" mentality when shit gets heavy. Many are socially awkward and can't handle the pressure of interaction (even if it can be admittedly painfully awkward and/or abrasive at times). While some can't handle their bubble of fame well and it does go to their head, some are actually nice once you understand that they're socially timid or defensive.
-- Not disclaiming that there aren't any dicks in the Fandom (artist or otherwise), fuck those guys. I mean, lookit me, total dickhead lol
So, now. There's a saturation of really solid artists in the Fandom now; names don't hold quite as much power as they once did, which is a good thing. People are being a bit more personal, social, and though there are some awkward points at times, it's a lot smoother socially than it once was. Granted, it's a lot more cynical in nature, negative at times, but also human nature lol
Good thing is that I'm back to being Fen again, or, rather, Rrowdy to some people, which is fine. People still know me through my art stuff (I mean, c'mon, this FA journal lol), but since I'm past my 15 minute bubble of fame, not nearly as many crazy IMs and interactions. Flipside of that is that some of the interaction, if anything, has been condescending since I can't offer what the now-more prominent artists can, and honestly, I guess I can't. Also get occasionally linked to dramas on Chanboards and Forums where people twist and embellish on aspects of my personal life in threads where my art pops up instead of being like STFU post the porn. I've even had people be flatout asinine simply because I have this mysterious clique and I'm "just a popufur artist" when I can definitely say that it hasn't really gotten me much socially, if not points of embarrassment. Shit sucks, but hey, it happens, and no fuss, no muss.
Speaking of ChanBoards, I'll prolly post a Journal on that later lol
Break Three
-- Don't label people. You might miss out on what they can actually offer 'you', not just what they generally offer.
-- In the end, mostly anything that's going wrong in you life can be traced back to your own decisions. Even if something's not directly your fault, just note what happens so that it doesn't happen again instead of bitching about it and doing nothing but living in the past. lol Trust me when I say that I know this as fact, and yes, it's sometimes very hard to overcome!
-- On the flipside, don't be afraid of getting hurt doing something similar to what got you down the first time (unless it's a 'really' dumb idea). Take better precaution before you try again. Just as bad as living in the past, you shouldn't use your pain as a shield to guard you from a potentially great future. Never stop taking chances. But never stop learning.
-- The Fandom itself is very "young". A lot of the people in it are there for gratuitous entertainment no matter how you slice it. Which is fine as long as you accept the truth of it and run with aspects that you like of it while respecting and neverminding aspects that you don't. Yes, there are awkward situations, and yes, it's oversexed, but so is the world, it's just more concentrated in such a small and rather surprisingly closely-knit community.
-- Respect! Negativity will come back to bite you on the ass, and people innately don't like negative people. If you feel like you're cool in a group talkin shit about others, note that those same people will do the same to you the minute you step out of line. I've said things out of anger quite a few times, hell, my Twitter's littered with random outbursts lol
-- Don't ever be That Guy.
-- Popularity just is. Either you're hot shit, or you're not. Sometimes it has to do with something you do, sometimes it baffles the masses on why and 'that' ends up being why you are. It can be skill, marketing, appeal, sheer luck, or a combination of. If you wanna be popular, wish I could offer more, but it's what I know.
-- Popularity is better for business or broadcasting. It actually sucks for personal life lol
-- Don't ever confuse popularity for love. It's not, and you'll seriously be in a world of hurt thinking so.
So, I guess that's my synopsis of what I've perceived. There are exceptions to the rule, and it's also just my perception based on my own path through the last ten years in the Fandom, and shit, before. Just keep in mind that things change, and there are always gonna be high and low points, not just in the Fandom, but throughout life.
Just run with it, have fun with it, live and learn, no fuss, no muss.
FA+

Thanks for sharing this
Live and learn, learn to forgive, and always be grateful for what you get.
Of course I've learned from my mistakes, or done my damnedest. Though the lingering issue of the outside problem that drove me to physical, mental, and emotional trauma (i.e. family) has still yet to resolve. But I'm working on it though, and do realize fully that I could have made better decisions back when to prevent the chain reaction of events from happening. But I strongly feel so could they have as well (and they're very annoyed that I am 'inconveniently still upset about all of it' in regards to them).
And I'm waiting for a resolution, be it up or down. While Up would be optimal, I'll strive to not let the Down hit me again - I'm not backed into a corner like last time (though it will mean a lot more work for me). Ultimately it was my own weakness that let the cauldron of bullshit bubble over onto other aspects of my life, and I'll keep it from happening again if it kills me.
... I'm mostly serious x3
I liked this post. And also, I've always been a follower of my own internet policy.
"Be nice, and if you don't have something nice to say about an artist, STFU and POST DIFFERENT PORN."
Also, Fox-butt.
That is all.
Well said, really. Though I'm surprised you don't like to talk about art. If someone were to talk to me about drumming (I'm a drummer), I'd be incredibly happy to have that conversation. Here's the thing though, - Nobody- talks to me about my passion, so I'm not sure how being bored with it feels.
Get in not one, not two, but three bands and run yourself ragged touring!
Talk to a person about what they are interested in using to make a living or to be popular and the person you are talking to will see you as just another a customer or a fan and not “see” you at all.
In a world of self-involved people, there are no real friends.
To be a friend, a person needs to be able to go out beyond him/herself and become honestly interested in another person and their interests. In our Furry world, how may artists are proud (?) of the fact that they only do their art to please themselves.
As far as popularity-popular fur posts a journal about how popularity ain't no big thang, knows it'll get seen because of their popularity.
<3 hehe
I meant that the mentality of the Fandom is perpetually young. There is a current influx of younger Furries, and it seems to keep the atmosphere young-minded, even among some the older folk. Some "outgrow" it due to the general output, some fade out as they get older, but there are indeed plenty of older Furries in the Fandom, but not as prominent due to the aforementioned overall cumulative mentality..
there's also the initial thing about the Fandom being "young", where the focus seems to be on younger people, and the prominent majority 'are' younger people.
Popularity is rather random, and it can change aspects of how you approach shit. It's like, a king might be able to be heard and revered over the life of a pauper. But a pauper can say more than a king with less scrutiny, so who truly has more freedom to do as they please? With power comes responsibility, the greater that power, the greater that responsibility. Influence is power, and popularity has influence in the mix.
That in mind, you have to factor how somebody innately is, and how they approach situations. Some are legitimately awkward in some situations, or buckle under certain pressures. Some tend to attack when even slightly hurt or rubbed the wrong way, thus some people being rather abrasive in how they approach things on here, or at conventions. Add into the mix that a good chunk of Furries in general are kinda socially awkward, not just the artists, and you have this sort of rocks beating against rocks thing goin on where you have both parties not knowing what the flippidy-fuck to do. It seems harsh, but it's sorta hilarious and can be helped by telling these certain people in the best way possible to come off less abrasive
But there are some that are just douches. They will be like that simply because of ego and won't take criticism because they're right. Some are usually the "I was picked on in high school and/or sexually abused so I can be spiteful and do the exact same shit cuz you don't know!" stock, as I call it. They never had something sembling love or being well-liked before, so they bask in it like it's sunshine. Love is sunshine, popularity is simply artificial and happenstance, which is better to make money, which ironically is the next step for people like this. "It gets me money! I can buy all of the things!". They learn shit like how to dress better, hygiene, how to be social, and now they think that they're hot shit because they're a normal person in a Fandom majorly of social misfits. Sadly, they can be because of broad, underlying social and self esteem issues.
Then there are just dicks. Some people are just like that. No reason, just are.
In all three cases, sadly, they produce what's wanted, but will hit certain points where they are seen as difficult. Other artists will pop up, they'll become irrelevant and they'll feel like they were wronged when all they had to do is shut up and draw lol
Just let it be. If it's a friend, call them on their shit in private so they know. If it's somebody being abrasive, call them on their shit, but only if it's an extreme situation, and even then, don't lose your cool to keep the drama bubble small. In most cases? Ignore it if it's not directly affecting you. Trust me whn I say there'll be enough internet hearsay to put the word out. But there will be people that will always get art, and always not care cuz they just want the skill. Gotta accept that lol
attack dogsfanboys come out of the woodwork to ironically tell me how much of a horrible person I am. So I leave it alone. I feel that folks need to fight their own little battles. Not to say I can't get my petty revenge if I really, really wanted to, but let's face it, that takes too much effort for me to care as I have more important things like staring at Troll and Orc asses in WoW and general life to deal with. Unless it affects me directly in which case that becomes another can of worms I don't like seeing opened.Those people can be jerks, but there is also a possibility that they just don't wanna be social. As Fen says it could be their egos mostly, as much as i don't consider myself popular, back in the day, a few years ago, i was contacted a few times by some people that really wanted to get to know me, and i was very young and didn't quite know how to handle situations like that properly, and when people want to know you, and get in your business, sometimes being rude or a dick to them is the only way they'll get to leave you alone.
Maybe they just dont have the time for online interactions or be involved with the community.
But the thing that baffles me most is why a lot of people are obsessed with this idea that an "artist" should be not only good in drawing, but also has to be a super nice person, for us to like his work. Or we dismiss his really good drawings that we really enjoy because he is a dick.
For instance i really like the works of
Which brings me to me sounding very arrogant and maybe ungrateful, (i do notice these things) when people who at first i don't know want to get to know me better, they reply to every comment i make, fav everything, and if i say "i hate nintendo" or "i love hip hop" it's SUCH a dealbreaker for them that they stop interacting with me. I don't get it. It doesn't really bother me as i am more focused on people who actually like what i do, but i don't agree with this view that if someone is an artist he has to be a saint and cater to every single person who reaches out. I swear a few times people unwatched me because i said i like hip hop, and another time when i linked a R&B video in my journal. And sometimes they would watch, and then unwatch to "punish me".
But then again a lot of artists, especially young ones (new in the fandom or just young at age), that they are nobodies. They are just some random guy on the internet who draws animal people having sex. Their popularity doesn't mean shit in the bigger picture.
However, i do believe that all artists who have "power" over their fans have a responsibility not to use them as their personal army.
And in the end it's up to the fan/commissioner to decide what to do. Watch, unwatch, support, not support, keep trying to get attention, don't interact at all etc. But they should stop putting artists on these pedestals and have weird expectations that they are the perfect onii-chan for their MSN chat sessions.
(please note that this isn't a direct comment to your comment, but i was mostly just sharing my thoughts to the general public)
And I think hip hop's making a rebound with Furries due to Trap being a thing now, so that's a lil obsolete TaoTao!
Remember joewolf who claimed i was his "enemy" and then he started drawing his character killing all of the people he proclaimed "enemies"? A lot of popular artists were on that list. For whatever reason all of us were dicks in his mind.
Then there are people who do a drawing for you then say "Hey i am doing a trade with you" then expect you to draw something for them, even thought (what?) you didn't agree to any trade lol When we try to rationally explain that's not how a trade works, we are dicks and elitists.
And of course we can't defend ourselves because we are "popular" with a million watchers, we can't be right. Poor nobody me being oppressed by super popular furry guy on the internet million miles away. Where is your army now?
Oh you have a army of fans you popufur elitist. Oh i'll write on every forum about how awful you are.
People take this popularity business very seriously, while artists don't care and believe they are just people (which is obviously wrong), so thats why discussions like, remember that artist girl who was threatened by some guy that he's gonna kill her, and then she made a FA journal with a note pasted in the journal with the threat, so FA admins removed it because it is against the TOS to call out someone else? Then the whole thing blew out of proportion, and not only we had a discussion on if the girl should call the police or not, what is illegal or not, we had a fucking discussion about how she is popular and how she deserved it or some shit lol
And this is the people we have to deal with. but we are "popular" what the heck do we know? *shrug*
So that brings me back to my philosophy of not being a dick. I fully understand that an artist may have some reservations against their "fans" because of various encounters or behaviors that may have soured their view. But if you're going to be a dick, do so for a reason, not because of unfounded judgments you pass on someone you don't know and has done nothing to you, doesn't fit a demographic you're not attracted to, or just because you think it's acceptable to be that way to everyone not in your circle of friends/clique. Overall it pays a lot better to treat people in general with respect and some tiny level of nicety rather than with disdain and snobbishness.
I also think that a lot of artists are a bit oblivious to how popular they are, and with it how much their words have an impact on the community. There is the watcher number but it doesn't really mean anything. Like me, i have no idea how "popular" i really am. I usually think i am not as i am i not all that social on FA, but that's just my perspective. Sometimes people said they feel intimidated by artists, which is just stupid.
But yes, there needs to be a reason why to act like a dick, and from certain recent outbursts i've seen around FA, they are mostly out of bitterness or feeling unappreciated, and this poor behavior is the result. A good way to resolve that is to simply ignore and not pay any attention to the negative comments other's leave and focus on more positive ones. Nothing good will come out of anyone who just came to pick a verbal internet fight.
It's nothing to attack, or revere, it's just what it is and you run with it accordingly while keeping 'your' life goals in foresight. If it doesn't fit, shrug at it. If it does, use it. Pretty simple, right?
Just thinking about popularity and a lot of people's reactions to it...
I don't believe I will ever understand some of the obsessions in the fandom. I see people, particularly artists, desire "fame" but not the ability to improve themselves. They focus on the watchers and attention over their own progress as an artist.
Not that a watcher base is useless. It helps me gauge prices and keep food on the table if some extra is needed. And of course watchers are people who appreciate your art so you gotta appreciate them back. However I think people loose sight of how small the fandom really is in the world. Besides if you work hard and build that skill set the fans will come.
And, like you said, I agree that it is a great way o learn. I note that myself, I tend to have these weird epiphanies and small boosts when I back off for a bit, but if I'm constant, I tend to stick strongly with what I know, which can be bad if there's still some that I need to learn. This is the bad part of popularity where people do feel pressured or obligated to keep it similar to what they became popular for, and it can take a bit to break free of that innate fear of familiarity and security.
The Fandom is indeed small, thus why I push people to go to DeviantArt and CGHub and try their luck on other sites. Even for porn, stick with Y!Gal, or try your lot at HF. It can be fun to vary up what you see, and tends to spark some changes to what you do that you'd never get staring at the same things all of the time
I just enjoy drawing :< why do people have to think I am trying to be some popular assflop.
Why did I assume that only white people assume that?
lol It's a stereotype; sadly, a whole can be spoiled or praised due to the perceived actions of a few. It's not true, but many people would rather assume than take the initiative to learn. Fucked up thing is that there 'are' people that are douches, so you can't really blame them.
Shit's a sad situation lol
Farting and forgetting you farted and then blame it on your cat.
But really tho; Bad is The.
Judge me on that and I think that your baby is ugly and needs to wait until it's old enough to choose hir gender.
Compare some of the most well-known artists on FA to some of the most well-known artists on DA and you already see a huge difference in amount of traffic and attention. Compare us to some of the most subscribed youtube members and we might as well be ants!
How can some of us even consider ourselves a big deal and inflate our ego when we are just a small tiny artist who isn't significant at all? :[ I think some people really let it go to their heads..
I love the "Don't be That Guy" line. So damn true. That's been my go-to piece of advice for people for like ten years now. xD
I've also known a lot of people who wanted to be artists, just so they'd be well known. It is impossible to convince these people that it's a huge hassle sometimes. Sure, it's got its perks, but... geez. You never get a sense for just how crazy people are, until they all know you.
There are various reasons on why people interact, but it all stems from commonality, I get. You have common ground, you tend to draw those with like mind. I also find that, since most people have their own individual woes and griefs, they generally tend to veer away when somebody is negative, since it stresses them out. Not saying that you are, but you seem outright pessimistic with how you're wording things, and I hope that past experiences don't deter you from being social in the Fandom.
I also was the most social when I was an "unknown", actually had the most fun while in the Fandom in my beginning years. All I did was talk to people and not give a shit about what they do, just who they were and how they regarded me. If they were dicks, oh well, but if they aren't, that's a win for me, a diamond int he rough.
Hell, even to this day, people don't know who I am, even with the "artist" name rattled off randomly. Most don't care unless they want something drawn, and that's fine by me, since some in turn 'only' know me as an artist and only want that of me. Keeping things real seems to make it all simple, and it's how I've run across some pretty choice people, most who aren't artists at all!
It is very true that people already have their circles, i certainly do and it is very very small. But on the other hand i have more than one circle and personally i have space for everyone if they want it.
The problem i find in people is their expectations.
Everyone uses FA, twitter or any website that has some sort of interaction differently. There are people on twitter who use it as a chat alternative, and there are those that like to retweet things, and those that only share interesting content and thoughts but dont really use it to be social and rather use it as a source of interesting content be it news, videos, music, art. And as people use them differently they kinda expect people to use them the same way.
I have noticed that a lot of people don't pay attention to my tweets as much because i don't engage in their public tweet sex RPs, or i don't get involved and reply to every tweet they made about having an erection or had to go to the toilet, post a pic of their cat, food they ate, or a meme, and a lot of times it's a give and take kind of relationship, i reply to your stupid comment, you reply to mine. Kinda like how facebook's "like" works. A lot of times you "like" your friends' posts even if you don't out of common courtesy. But i don't really like people expecting that kind of treatment from me.
If you like my art, fav or comment, or don't. If you like my tweet, reply or don't. I don't really expect people to do anything, and yet a lot of people to, and when you don't fulfill those expectations, whatever they may be, they feel betrayed and stop to care.
But in the end it isn't about popularity, it's about how good you click with others as a person, which is a lot easier to do on twitter than FA. You get to prove who you are, and how well are your 140 character thoughts, and not how many thousand watchers you have or how good of an artist you are. On FA it's about art as well as if you get along with that other person.
Another expectation from a lot of people is that person and artist NEED to be BFFs and reply to eachothers comments all the time every 5 minutes because that's what friendship is all about.
I consider Fen a "friend", we aren't the best of friends and we don't even chat. But i have so much respect for him as an fellow artist and a person, that i feel close enough to him to be comfortable to speak to him about anything, or even be rude without him getting mad, and if he asked me for a favor i would do it for him without a second thought. To me, knowing that people are there for you when you need them, is more important that replying to every mundane tweet, or saying "howdy" every day, is a real friendship and not what a lot of people expect from "popular" folk. People judge others based on watchers, art, rumors, likes, dislikes and opinions that shouldn't even matter, instead being able to see past that and actually respect that person on a deeper level. The people who don't do this are probably the biggest candidates to be friends with a popular person and in most cases be way above "furry popularity".
Like I said, you keep saying "you artists", but a lot of the more prominent people socially aren't even artists, or are just friendly and sociable. It's why I stress about the negativity, it pushes people away. You can't flip out, though I do get that it can be frustrating.
You do seem to want to meet people, and it seems like you've been burned, which does happen to all of us; gods knows that I'm not friends with a good chunk of people on this site, and Iunno what I've even done! lol
Just let the bad roll off and be content with the good that you run across. FA isn't the best place to just meet and have conversations, since the premise is the art. It's why I push social media like Twitter and going to cons and furmeets to get to know people a lil more personally, see what it's about. I can tell you that there are shades of grey across the board, so you'll meet some douches, can't baby that, but you will meet people that you clique with, and that's the start, it goes from there!
So...just a reminder, it isn't all as bad as you think it is. *hugs*
...heh, I admire you since my...ummm...14 years maybe :D and I always wanted to ask you for art trade, but I always feared, that my skills aren´t so good as yours, and, when I finally have commensurate skills, I am afraid that you are too popular for it :>
Not that it's a bad thing. Whether you learned this stuff from someone else or on your own, you're doing pretty damn good for knowing this.
The only thing I have to say about this is that if people who are only dicks about a certain thing that they choose to generalize(I.E. Popular Artists) They're probably just really angry people you shouldn't hang around with, unless you want to be like them and be ignorant over the fact that people are people.
Some are dicks, some are nice, we all just want what we want, in the end.
Now all I need is u.
Don't mean we go around committing hate crimes.
Me, I'm nice to everybody initially; I even end up forgiving a broad range of things. But if I end up not liking you, it's a big deal cuz I tend to have a really good and personal reason. Personal opinion > even worldly fame imo
But yeah I got into a lot of the problems I have because I'd be the nice guy or too friendly to people. So it'll tend to come back and bite me in the butt.
Also maybe furry artists are popular, but only into the fandom. To the rest of the world they are simple people who likes to draw and/or freaks that deserve to yiff in hell.
I will add that up until a few years ago I was obsessed with popularity, recognition of fellow artists or fursuiters, or furries. It is nice of course to have friends that you can talk furry about to, but of late I've found that the people I thought I knew really don't know me. The real me. Sure they know Silvermane, I do Furfright, I draw, etc. but beyond that they really don't know the person behind the monitor. Perhaps none of us truly does know someone but here's the secret. Talk to people. Amazing what you find out.
As far as being popular or known, meh. It happens, it doesn't, it matters not to me any more. Mostly because I've akinned it to being a rat race where no one really wins and he who wins probably looses in the end anyway, ie all the shit the comes with being popular. Rather skip it focus on what I do and try to do the best I can.
It feels weird knowing we've been in the fandom for almost the same amount of time lol. Me starting at around 2004/2005. Not exactly sure what I've learned from it though~ STILL AM I GUESS
But yeah...!
Geez, why can't I fave this journal?
So many good points here, even if I can't yet relate to everything said because I'm just not involved enough in the community to see some things. Props, Fen!
Unless they're a critic.
So yeah, even critics! lol
HEY. Totally random and possibly too little of a heads-up, but the furgroup up here in Washington,
Here's the info~
Also looks like there's something happening earlier too, if'n you're in to card games and the like. :3
Stuff like this tends to happen every three months, and I'm not sure why this was my catalyst to invite you, I really don't. .w .;
I'm agree with you in many points, in the part that you say about admiration, not only here in the fandom (actually I'm new in this stuffs) even out of it... you know, there are many actors, sport-players, and musicians who have the luck of being overestimated and they start to became vain, just because many people say something like "wow, he 's touchin' a guitar, praised be him" many of them no have talent but... you know.
This isn't your case, you are talented!
My drawing skills are not good enough, actually not compared to you... but I have to focus in the reasons that drove me here... draw, improve, express and be myself.
other points in your journal are cool advices, for example "not label people", If people could remember this every time
-- We are all like that; we all will find something on others that we want, whether it be friendship or not. It's human nature, and the sooner you understand this, the less angry you get when somebody flakes out or turns out to be a user.
-- Deep admiration should be earned, not given.
-- On the flipside, don't be afraid of getting hurt doing something similar to what got you down the first time (unless it's a 'really' dumb idea). Take better precaution before you try again. Just as bad as living in the past, you shouldn't use your pain as a shield to guard you from a potentially great future. Never stop taking chances. But never stop learning.
And especially:
"Yes, there are awkward situations, and yes, it's oversexed, but so is the world, it's just more concentrated in such a small and rather surprisingly closely-knit community."
And the last one, the one you seemed to be commenting on, was not at all me saying it was okay to be and do whatever the hell you want (although I would say people can do that--as long as they are willing to face the consequences of it). It was me being glad you acknowledged that the awkwardness and oversexed-ness of furry is not unique to it, but is true of life in general. Or to put it another way, yeah if you're flaky and wild, some will not respect you, and yeah if you're a dick people will be angry at you. But being flaky and wild, or being a dick, is not unique to the furry fandom, so anyone who thinks it is, and that if you just leave/ignore/belittle the fandom you can escape such behaviors, is just fooling themselves.
There's plenty of exceptions, but just somethin' interesting. Everyone's got stuff they want to discuss, some folk just don't know when to quit, though.
These sorts of journals are just as baseless and meaningless as other elitists bemoaning the high percentage of nothing but porn...while at the same time, being the numbnut fuckwits who contribute to it.
What do you know of emotion or friendship, honestly? I seem to recall you making a journal not so long ago with the sole purpose of tearing another person down, you didn't use his name, but he knew, and maybe the billions of people who tripped all over their intensive selves to lick your ass didn't know either, but they still judged the person solely on what irreverent bullshit you were spouting. How would you feel if someone did that to you, huh? do you even have feelings? Don't bother answering, I know you don't.
Just go back to posting your mindless porn drivel and telling yourself you're not a soulless elitist snob who isn't simply full of himself, and looking for any excuse to draw yet still more attention to himself. You don't really need to act as if you care or that you have emotions, you have over a million watchers already and you didn't get them for your 'insight', so why pretend you have any,
now run for your life chanboards are coming right there
honestly i know im not terribly popular at all. only an exact handful even pay attention to me. side from that im too lazy to be popular. i know i could draw every single day, color and shade and slam 30-40 pictures a single day. thats no fun, nor would the pain from the effort be worth the kind of people that attracts.
it's much more fun to coast and sploosh out 3-4 here and there whenever, art is fun, thats how it started and that is how it stays. my biggest problem lately was expecting someone to own up to themselves, left me thinking shallowly. i get wrecked easy, im human, but still my biggest thing is to always have fun.
But then again, im also no longer new to the internet, or quite as snazzed up about meeting new furries. not sure...