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Gotta love people and how they are and the internet...
12 years ago
How people can have such egos and think so high and mighty of themselves, that they are better than everyone else.
I have never had to use the block feature at all on my FA page ever, until I posted something showing a number of things in dealing with a fursuit builder. Then I get called a troll (after seeing someone's journal)? Funny... I haven't been, even when defending myself. You're free to have your own opinion. I love how people want to call me a liar, but am not. I pride myself on being truthful. I am not one to stretch the truth, or twist it in my favor like I've seen some try doing, even with posting my personal emails here, only little excerpts without the entirety to back it up. This isn't the place to post such things, and that is between me and the maker, regardless of what you have have been shown. I've shown a number of my friends and stuff those same emails and gotten objective opinions as well where I'm in the right.
For those of you watching this do know I have been in contact with the fursuit builder. There are both sides to this argument, and I have chat logs dating all the way back to when this was first started. I just currently do not have the time to deal with AB (Artist Beware) or anything of that nature, nor the drama fest that likely will ensue. I don't really even use LJ which it is a part of anyway. Especially after seeing all the vultures here pounce I'm less likely to go there even with all the stuff I have in my arsenal. I'd rather use it elsewhere.
I am blocking any and ALL people for negative comments in general and tired of all the rampant harassment in general. If you have nothing good to say, then don't say anything at all, use the golden rule. Treat others how you would be treated. If you all would learn not to be so childish in defending someone's side blindly without knowing both sides and everything... well the people defending me actually weren't doing bad at all, giving me a lot of positive statements, and advice, even the private messages and emails and help on how to pursue this further. I wasn't making a call out for anyone to defend me.
I had tons of people attacking me from the other party's end though... I find that rather sad. It hurts to see how quickly people jump on others like that. I guess that's the internet for you. Even when you try to do the right thing and warn others.
In this situation here, ultimately it is the customer who is right, as shown with so many people commenting about consumer/buyer protection and things of that nature. Even in an "art" related transaction. It is ultimately a business transaction and if the buyer isn't happy they have full rights on their end as well as the maker/seller. The maker messed up on my markings multiple times, missed due dates, especially the first critical one which MFM is my suit's birthday convention. He also should've been secret and not had anything posted to twitter to begin with, so the suit maker didn't properly communicate how I wished to be. I am well within my rights.
I want people to be aware I've recently received an email from the maker, though she's multiple times avoided calls and even a mediated Skype call, so rampantly avoided me... This just keeps on building and adding to my case. If the rest of you wish to help make my case easier, please go ahead. Truthfully though, once this gets fully resolved... There won't even need to be a need for AB anyway, so I don't really see the point.
I have never had to use the block feature at all on my FA page ever, until I posted something showing a number of things in dealing with a fursuit builder. Then I get called a troll (after seeing someone's journal)? Funny... I haven't been, even when defending myself. You're free to have your own opinion. I love how people want to call me a liar, but am not. I pride myself on being truthful. I am not one to stretch the truth, or twist it in my favor like I've seen some try doing, even with posting my personal emails here, only little excerpts without the entirety to back it up. This isn't the place to post such things, and that is between me and the maker, regardless of what you have have been shown. I've shown a number of my friends and stuff those same emails and gotten objective opinions as well where I'm in the right.
For those of you watching this do know I have been in contact with the fursuit builder. There are both sides to this argument, and I have chat logs dating all the way back to when this was first started. I just currently do not have the time to deal with AB (Artist Beware) or anything of that nature, nor the drama fest that likely will ensue. I don't really even use LJ which it is a part of anyway. Especially after seeing all the vultures here pounce I'm less likely to go there even with all the stuff I have in my arsenal. I'd rather use it elsewhere.
I am blocking any and ALL people for negative comments in general and tired of all the rampant harassment in general. If you have nothing good to say, then don't say anything at all, use the golden rule. Treat others how you would be treated. If you all would learn not to be so childish in defending someone's side blindly without knowing both sides and everything... well the people defending me actually weren't doing bad at all, giving me a lot of positive statements, and advice, even the private messages and emails and help on how to pursue this further. I wasn't making a call out for anyone to defend me.
I had tons of people attacking me from the other party's end though... I find that rather sad. It hurts to see how quickly people jump on others like that. I guess that's the internet for you. Even when you try to do the right thing and warn others.
In this situation here, ultimately it is the customer who is right, as shown with so many people commenting about consumer/buyer protection and things of that nature. Even in an "art" related transaction. It is ultimately a business transaction and if the buyer isn't happy they have full rights on their end as well as the maker/seller. The maker messed up on my markings multiple times, missed due dates, especially the first critical one which MFM is my suit's birthday convention. He also should've been secret and not had anything posted to twitter to begin with, so the suit maker didn't properly communicate how I wished to be. I am well within my rights.
I want people to be aware I've recently received an email from the maker, though she's multiple times avoided calls and even a mediated Skype call, so rampantly avoided me... This just keeps on building and adding to my case. If the rest of you wish to help make my case easier, please go ahead. Truthfully though, once this gets fully resolved... There won't even need to be a need for AB anyway, so I don't really see the point.
However, the thing there is that they must although negative, be said with respect. In that regard, I can take most things with the method intended.
I also, having been in retail and such for several years, disagree with the blanket statement that the customer is always right. There have been cases I could cite when the customer was unreasonable or clearly did not read the policy. Customer service says to appease them, but personal responsibility should cite that they should've taken responsibility for their own choices. I believe the customer is right within reason. Of course, here I speak of a general case, not to you specifically.
I hope you can appreciate my point of view, and good luck sorting this out.
The problem with this fandom is that a lot of people in it dont want to face facts or reality so they try to coddle themselves and expect other people too. Thats why people like me and khyle are always accused of "starting drama" because we dont do that. For people like us its a very black and white concept, and quite frankly if my experience with this suit maker was just as bad Id be doing the same thing and warning business away from them, just as I warn business away from Wells Fargo and Walmart. I see zero difference.
I like your going into transitioning about Jos. A Bank... They make custom tailored suits... That is kinda in line with this. I agree with your point about the fandom. People are being so self centered, and you can spin things any which way you want it, like when little parts of personal emails were being quoted by people who weren't the suit maker or myself. I probably should have just shut down those comments, but chose to leave them up to show how bad and rude some people were harassing and trolling me.
I am also in total accord with warding people away from bad businesses. I have done the same with larger businesses, and I will gladly do the same when I receive poor service from small ones too. It makes no difference, you are still a business, no matter what good you are selling.
Secondly, the fandom does not generally do written contracts, because of the time involved in mailing things back and forth I am sure. In addition, many makers do not do con due dates because it is unrealistic of them to do so. Personally whenever I had a con due date, I placed my order well in advance and was not bound to the date because I have had to wait over a year for a suit I had intended to debut much sooner. Did I complain? No. I saw no point in arguing with the maker because I wanted the suit, and as he wisely pointed out one day "there will be other days off". Likewise, there will be other cons. The 'birth con' will come around again, and from the sounds of it, he doesn't really want the Eris suit anyhow at this point, which I completely understand. So I don't think the due date is a viable argument in fursuit business. Certainly they should attempt to hit promised goals, but considering that fursuit businesses are often one to two person affairs, many processes being refined as they go, and the fact that unlike a big company there is less margin for error, one has to understand things will happen in the maker's life. Now insofar as the markings, if Khyle provided good refs, then yes, absolutely it is the makers fault.
He can request (not demand) a refund and I say request simply because you catch more flies with honey. But most makers I know charge a nonrefundable deposit, 30 to 50% when you place the order for materials and time. I believe Khyle would be entitled to the different from what he paid and an apology, and in turn he keeps the suit to sell or do what he wishes with. That's what I see as the best possible ending here.
its not a matter of "well what's the suit makers side of it" its a matter of, the suit maker is running a business, she's conducting that business poorly, and Khyle is making a public complaint, which follows about 90% of what every customer in the world does when they have a negative experience.
Regardless, if you are not willing to hear the other person's side (of which I would be before I chose a side), then why do we even have a legal system? Maybe she is conducting a bad business, and I do believe he's in his rights to complain, however... I would still want to hear her side for fairness's sake. That's why we have prosecution and defense.
You are right about a lot of folks not wanting to face reality. You may be interested in a journal of mine titled Furries Most Wanted. Personally, nothing in this world is black and white. Zero difference? Well, again, I must disagree. Walmart is a massive corporation with tons of employees and locations that does not make things, they just sell them. Fursuit makers are small businesses in an informal environment which do not have most of the protections and are entirely dependent on themselves to succeed or fail. Big difference.