i can't be vegan because i'm allergic to soy
12 years ago
i can't be near you because i'm allergic to bullshit
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and greens :O
And I think some fruits or some other things.
he'd be so fucked as a vegan.
:( I would be sad having such a limited diet health wise.
I don't want to sound as if I'm entirely gung-ho with the Paleo diet, but I will admit there's a lot of important factors to that idea. It's a fairly modern idea that rich foods are standard, and normal to your diet -- junk foods like cake, soda, ice cream; animal products such as meat or cheese; and even the addition of flavoring such as sauces and other sodium-infused foods -- and without them, your life is going to be so terrible. Americans eat anywhere between 2,500 mg - 3,700 mg of sodium per day, with a recommendation to eat about 1,000 mg - 2,500 mg, and yet, people in places who don't have access to the foods we do can get by with a range of 250 - 500 mg.
Human taste buds are very tricky to alter after eating these rich foods (we are biologically programmed to enjoy eating excessive calories) but I can assure you that it can be done. If you want proof of this, you have to really challenge your body. If you fast for a day (it won't kill you), I can tell you that a bowl of unsalted, plain rice, beans, or vegetables will taste absolutely wonderful. 'Hunger is the best seasoning', pretty much. Though I'm not condoning excessive fasting just so plain foods can taste good, but it's just a very fast way to trick your brain, and teach yourself, "Hey, the diet I'm eating is probably way too freakin' much." ....even if your country's government's recommendations for your daily nutritional intake says otherwise!
Girl, please.
I'm proudly omnivorous.
But I wasn't referring to veganism (see my last post above)
I see you living your lives the way you choose to live and I say 'okay'. You all are very proud of your lives and I let you live them as you do.
But I can not be happy for the way I choose to live my life? It's okay for me to be scorned because I do not choose to follow your same lifestyles?
What I said is no different than someone saying "I am proud to be vegan!" and considering how fast you all jumped on me, you all seem to be obviously proud to be vegan.
If I were to insult you for being proud to be vegan, you'd be understandably upset. But if I am insulted for being proud to have an omnivorous diet, I'm not allowed to take offense?
Bull.
For the record: I am a proud vegan, I am proud of my compassion. I don't see how this is a bad thing. Though there are entirely too many faults with being a carnist.
And nobody can be completely open minded. We all have our own biases and opinions that prevent us from truly understanding each other.
It just so happens that my opinion is that I think hurting animals is wrong. I don't understand why others don't have this opinion.
Just some food for thought. I knew you were a vegan without you even telling me by a stereotype that holds so true to most of you. Kinda sad, really.
Just some food for thought. I knew you were a vegan without you even telling me by a stereotype that holds so true to most of you. Kinda sad, really.
Also, and not to really attack you any further, but I can't take someone seriously in a debate when they are someone "who loves nothing more than pickin' the banjo and hittin' the bong".
Everyone's entitled to their own opinions. I agree! But I also think everyone is entitled to their own lives! What do you expect me to do to be a good vegan? Say, 'Well, I don't like animals suffering, and humans benefitting from that suffering... but I'll overlook it.' and not point out that hurting others is wrong ....when I can take action and say, "Hey, you know what, fuck that shit. Be nice to animals." (in as friendly of a manner as I can, although at this point, I am not here to make friends.)
I have not attacked anyone personally, except to point out that your choices in diet actively harm others. Not just thousands of sentient beings, but the humans who reside on this planet, as there is a huge environmental impact of the meat industry which is continually proven by science. It's not vegan propaganda, it's truth.
I'm the mean, asshole vegan who is attacking you so terribly? But you have reduced me to a dumb stoner stereotype, yet I smoke mostly for medical reasons, as someone with severe depression and PTSD... this has nothing to do with my intelligence or my compassion. You have reduced me to an ignorant vegan, yet I'm asking questions and providing sound logic... you're the one who has provided personal character attacks ("You smoke and play banjo? NOTHING YOU SAY MATTERS!") hasty generalizations ("ALL vegans are mean and ignorant... nothing you say matters!") and irrelevant reasoning ("Animals are going to suffer anyway so we might as well keep killing them..." and then you provided Family Guy as a reference...)
And you have reduced me to a dumb inbred mountain hillbilly... or do you just hate banjo music? Or music in general? I don't understand why the fuck you pointed this out tbh lmao
Jesus fucking christ though what the fuck does me loving banjo have to do with anything oh my lord
I'm perfectly fine that you don't eat meat and use animal byproducts. Must make your life a hell of a lot harder, but good for you for having a cause you believe in so much that you're going to ask or look before you buy "does this contain any animal byproducts?" However, what's wrong with today's society is that when you're out of the norm (i.e. the minority) or you're a religious fanatic you get so fucking high-and-mighty and preach your belief on others in an attempt to make yourself either not the minority anymore or to be fully well known about your cause and who you are. There's a reason there are negative stereotypes tied to vegans because, well, many of you guys are crazed lunatics who will attack anyone mentioning meat, but at the very least, you're not at that level yet or I'd have my inbox flooded with negative PMs.
In all honesty, I wanted to see your reaction towards it, because that's just who I am, but to proudly proclaim that you smoke weed (for whatever reasons that are irrelevant) typically won't help your cause because it DOES make you look like a typical stoner because only someone so stoned would do something like that. (PS: I honestly didn't give a shit about the banjo part)
All in all, glad you found a cause you believe in, but ffs, don't claim ignorance on people who are fully aware that they are eating other animals. I'm well aware I eat living flesh, and tbh, I'm okay with it. If that upsets you so much, sorry, but any further arguing won't lead to anything but people getting upset/annoyed.
it's about the sentient, thinking, feeling beings you are bringing suffering to. that is not okay. i don't care what your excuse is. i surely hope you don't consider yourself an animal lover; you can't love someone you kill.
PS: Found the other vegan.
I am pointing out the ignorance that you wish to have your choices and your opinions respected, yet don't even respect the lives of animals. That is the hypocrisy.
Again, I am not attempting to be rude. To repeat myself exactly as I did before: I have not attacked anyone personally, except to point out that your choices in diet actively harm others. Diet is a personal thing, but when it comes to the death of others, is it still personal? Even if they are 'just animals'?
And this journal was written by my friend Paul, a vegan, about veganism.... If anything, you're spreading your carnist shit around that no one wants to hear about.
I know you are aware you eat animals, but I am asking, why? Why not change this? Why do you feel that it is the right thing to do? The only real point you have made is 'They're going to die anyway', well, that's because we live in a society in a population that directly funds and continues the meat industry. Can that change overnight? Will being even more 'radical' than you judge me as do anything? Not at all. Changes like this occur slowly, and yes, although I am a minority, I am one more minority. This doesn't inherently make me wrong, just as the larger population is not inherently correct. And back to the fact that the animals are dead/going to die anyway.... I'm not financially supporting that. Neither are millions of others. It won't stop it from happening but it's just one less consumer, among the however many million vegans who boycott animal products. There is impact in what I do. It's not drastic to the point where others like you may see it but the vegan population is growing every single year.
My life is not harder in the sense that I have to frantically search through what little sources of food I can find (I can literally eat anything you can, there are vegan versions of pretty much any foods... I've made 'tuna fish' out of chick peas, used mashed bananas to replace eggs in recipes, etc.) but it is harder because saying 'I don't want to hurt animals' gets met with backlash like this. Why is attempting to live more compassionately so bad? Why is it so out of reach and out of interest for others? That apathy frustrates me, especially because it is the reason why animals and the planet are still suffering so greatly.
I still don't understand why you attempted to bait me, except to try to gain a reaction to make me lose my composure? That's a terrible ploy that completely derails from the topic. Besides, weed is pretty prevalent and accepted these days, lots of people smoke and are proud stoners.... if I had glittering text gifs of 'FOUR TWENTY ~ BLAZE IT ~ ONE LOVE ' on my page, I would have understood a bit more if you'd done the 'Well you smoke weed, you must be dumb' idea, but other than mentioning I like being stoned, there really is nothing to prove that my logic is unsound. I haven't even been properly stoned in about a month now anyway, lol. (And you should give a shit about banjo, it's a pretty fantastic instrument. Did you know they originally were from Africa? Amazing.)
Please, just stop. Be vegan, be proud, but do everyone a favor and don't be an asshole.
Yes, you are a hypocrite, but you can change this. Yes, I am an asshole. (That's because I'm an asshole, not because I am a vegan.)
'They taste good' isn't really a closing statement for a discussion. It's just a continuation of your refusal to empathize.
Again, I know it does not appear that veganism has any impact (tbh, that was one of my major qualms with it. I was a vegetarian in high school for a while, before reverting back to eating meat for about four years, because I didn't feel like I was 'doing anything'.) but I assure you that there is. It may just be the extent of all that you can do, and that's the point. Just like with anything you do to try to better the world, you can only go so far, but why not take that effort? I don't know if you're passionate about any particular thing to better the life you were living, but I hope you recognize that the efforts and actions of 'just one person' does not equate nothing.
So, with that logic- it's okay to rape because rape feels good. It's okay to steal because stealing feels good. It's okay to murder and eat someone else because they taste good.
Whelp, done with you. At least stoner-dog gives me legitimate arguments.
tell me why it's okay to torture, murder, and eat others because they taste good, but not okay to have nonconsensual sex with others because it feels good. both occur against the will of the victim.
Regardless, not only is it not illegal to eat meat, but, well, I guess I just don't give a shit about cows and chickens if that's what you want to hear. They were born and raised TO be eaten, TO make certain products; had we not needed said products, many of them probably wouldn't even be born in the first place.
On that same note, many "third world countries" have a higher rate of veg*nism than the US. So your original statement makes zero sense.
Also, praytell, what exactly does that mean, what is "the third world?" That's a very outdated and extremely racist term that implies Western superiority and relegates the entire rest of the cultures on Earth to one category. It also implies a hierarchical layout to culture and international relations, since for there to be a "third world," there have to be first and second ones. Considering the many useful and life-saving innovations coming from those "third world countries," and the contributions they've made to the world as a whole in the past, it's a dubious term. Nasty stuff.
In any case, back to the topic at hand. I'm just gonna break this down.
Regardless, not only is it not illegal to eat meat...
Illegality of a thing has no bearing on its morality whatsoever. Bringing up legal ramifications or lack thereof for an action in a discussion of ethics usually indicates a lack of understanding of the discussion of ethics in the first place. We're not talking about what laws humans have created to tell themselves what is right and what is wrong. It's illegal in Russia to be openly gay. It's totally legal to assault someone for it, though. It's virtually illegal for a woman to get an abortion--even in cases of rape, with no exemptions mentioned for medical needs--in South Dakota, but that has no bearing on whether the law is fair.
but, well, I guess I just don't give a shit about cows and chickens if that's what you want to hear.
Of course that's what the vegan wanted to hear. At least you admit your lack of compassion and humanity.
For the record, do you know what is legal? Anything you want to do to a chicken on a factory farm for either eggs or flesh. Chickens are not covered under even the most basic terms of the Humane Farming Act, which is already a joke. So if you want to talk about legalities, let's start there.
The fact that you admit to not giving a shit about other, sentient beings is refreshing and disgusting in equal measure. On the one hand, it's nice to see you understand your own lack of empathy, but then you shrug it off as if that's normal, natural, and not a serious problem.
But let me ask you something. Do you really not give a shit? If I show you images of living, feeling, intelligent animals, with eyes that show fear and pain, locked into a system that torments them for profit, would you feel nothing? When I tell you that most cattle--cows that have lived a short, tortuous 4 years, who are racked with infection and disease and open wounds, some of whom cannot walk for their injuries, but who get no veterinary care or even a modicum of human kindness--go through the slaughter process fully alive and feeling, would you not at least feel a small hint of some emotion? When I ask you to put yourself in their place, think of approaching a building where you can hear, see, and smell the deaths of your brethren--if not your friends and loved ones--before being forced into that very place, having your own throat slit, being hung from a hook and swung along a chain, bleeding out but fully conscious down a line of torment, having your legs cut off at the knee with giant bolt-cutters, your skin ripped from your body while you still feel, or maybe you get dunked in a tank of boiling water while fully conscious... do you have not a single stirring of at least discomfort at this thought?
If so, that's a natural and normal reaction. No one should revel in the torture and murder of billions of other beings a year just for their pleasure. Now, if you have even the slightest hint of guilt in your head after honestly seeking out images and videos and information about the industry you're supporting, that's not the asshole vegans talking, that's your own mind. It's responding to something unnatural and immoral, and you should listen to it more closely. When humans are afraid of a charging bull or a violent storm or a very high cliff, it's because we are in immediate potential danger. That fear is important. When we get angry at someone threatening us or our loved ones, it releases adrenaline, which heightens the senses, preparing us to fight if necessary. Anger, too, is important. So, too, is guilt. "Negative" emotions are an evolutionary built in alarm to let us know when something goes wrong... if you don't listen to them, if you purposefully push them aside, you are ignoring a very important part of how our bodies and minds develop and mature.
If you honestly feel no gut reaction, no emotion, no guilt, no revulsion, not even a twinge of sympathy when you view footage of CAFOs and slaughterhouses, then we should look elsewhere. It makes no sense, rationally, to eat animal products. Even if you somehow dispute the well documented negative effects that they have on the human body and overall health, animal agriculture is responsible for 51% of all global greenhouse gas emissions. That's more than all transportation--cars, boats, planes--combined. It's also the leading cause of deforestation in the Brazilian rainforest, because cattle take a lot of land to properly raise.
Not to mention the water use, pollution from runoff, and antibiotic waste, which then leads to the mutation of superbugs. Have a look at MRSA and e.coli O157:H7. Or do some research on how some really deadly strains of influenza became transmissable to humans... specifically the bird and swine flus.
Oh, and I hope you like the taste of shit, because the USDA openly admits to there being fecal matter in the meat. Lots of it. Often. This is common knowledge, and you can get the studies--all from reliable, respected sources--simply by googling.
But in case you don't want to, here's a good starting point.
They were born and raised TO be eaten, TO make certain products; had we not needed said products, many of them probably wouldn't even be born in the first place.
This is actually the same logic that was used to excuse the American slave trade. I have a book on the matter I'd be willing to mail you. No shit, not even joking, I do this for people. This is an honest offer. It's called "Eternal Treblinka," and it is about the historical effect of speciesism and animal exploitation throughout human history, with an emphasis on the genocides of both the indigenous Americans and the Jews. It was written by Charles Patterson, Ph.D and has a lot of very good, accurate information in a relatively short book. The title is actually taken from a quote by Isaac Bashevis Singer, a Polish-born Jew who survived the Holocaust, but lost much of his family to it, who became an animal rights enthusiast and activist after seeing the parallels between animal "agriculture" and how his own people were treated.
If you're interested, I will seriously send this to you. All I ask is that, when you're done, you mail it back. I'll pay for postage both ways. I have others, too, but this one is relevant to the discussion--or perhaps this feels more like a lecture at this point--at hand.
In any case, it's a dismissive and rationally void excuse for eating animal products, and has no place in a proper debate about ethics and the behavior of humans.
killing isn't humane
that's the point
This is covered well in a few different books I have if you'd be interested in getting them. I mail these out to people who are trying to educate themselves on a topic, so if you want, I'll send one your way. The one I had in mind was "Eating Animals" by Jonathan Safran Foer, one of my favorite authors. Just let me know if you want it.
Or, if you're interested in seeing just how pervasive the problem is firsthand, here's a good resource: http://www.finalnail.com/slaughter.html
Does drawing comparisons of human life to animal life make you confused or insulted?
Why?
I will say that I find it laughable (the logic, I mean, not you) that you are saying, 'I respect YOUR life decisions, why can't you respect mine?' even though you are really being the disrespectful one here, of the actual life of animals. There really is no way to 'be respectful of life decisions' when you directly fund the exploitation of animal's lives... and you are proud of that?
I am not insulted when people insult me for being vegan, because every single argument I have come across against veganism is illogical by some degree, and therefore, has a logical comeback.
Anyways, it's kinda sad when people like you claim ignorance on others when you're the ignorant one around here. As for me, I will gladly enjoy my meat & veggies dish.
The logic of, 'Well suffering is gonna happen anyway, might as well indulge in it' is pretty illogical. I don't even want to begin to point out to you how wrong it is, but I'll ask you to please reflect on it.
it was my subconscious mind protecting me from guilt in the easy way, because changing my behavior seemed hard (even though it really wasn't- it would still have been worth it if it was).