A question about commission offerings
12 years ago
General
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AmaDenchArt
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Thank you!
Many times I've seen myself in this situation and I truly don't know how to act, so I thought of asking your opinion on the subject, since you're my audience and the ones interested in commissioning me.
When I offer commissions, of whatever kind, I ask applicants to fill a form where I ask info such as type of commission, references, email etc. I use this because it's easier to keep things organized and clean, but often I encounter this problem: someone doesn't fill the form. They actually just comment on the journal claiming a slot, and then I don't know what to do.
Should I consider their offer, even if they don't fill the form...? Or should I give priority to those who actually took their time to fill the form?
I understand that timezones and other things can make it really difficult to grab a slot sometimes, and that's the reason I've been considering them all this time. On the other hand, I feel really bad that sometimes someone who actually fills the form doesn't get the slot because someone who didn't fill the form got theirs...
Today I tried the second option (to skip the ones who didn't fill the form) and I think ended up with someone angry at me because of that. I understand that you can never please Greek and Trojans but.. what should I do?
I want to be fair but I don't know what to do. Your opinion?
Thank you very much for the help...
When I offer commissions, of whatever kind, I ask applicants to fill a form where I ask info such as type of commission, references, email etc. I use this because it's easier to keep things organized and clean, but often I encounter this problem: someone doesn't fill the form. They actually just comment on the journal claiming a slot, and then I don't know what to do.
Should I consider their offer, even if they don't fill the form...? Or should I give priority to those who actually took their time to fill the form?
I understand that timezones and other things can make it really difficult to grab a slot sometimes, and that's the reason I've been considering them all this time. On the other hand, I feel really bad that sometimes someone who actually fills the form doesn't get the slot because someone who didn't fill the form got theirs...
Today I tried the second option (to skip the ones who didn't fill the form) and I think ended up with someone angry at me because of that. I understand that you can never please Greek and Trojans but.. what should I do?
I want to be fair but I don't know what to do. Your opinion?
Thank you very much for the help...
FA+

AmaDenchArt

Its a Rule isn't it, to Claim a Slot and then Fill out the Form?
If the Person is Angry about it, just tell him that he needs to fill out the form next time and then let him go...or...ask him to fill the form and then do his commission.
But I did take note of your suggestion, thank you very much for it.
I'm glad there's an option to hide comments!
If they don't do what you say than it's too bad for them.
Or have a slot raffle. Open up a slot, tell folks to comment, then randomly select persons, have them fill out the form. If they can't follow the instructions, slot is rerolled to someone else.
Do you think the form was easy enough for people to locate so that people knew they had to use it?
also, if they seem serious about it in comment, but don't fill out the form, i'll direct them to please fill out the form in order to get a slot ^_^
Why is it so hard to do things? T_T
Ja que no journal anterior voce especificou sobre usar isso, entao ninguem pode reclamar.
Those who are interested receiving a commission should respect the guidelines of the artist, and "win" the slot fairly.
You can also note that you will pass over those who do not fill out the form, so if someone gets angry, you can say it's clearly stated above and they did not follow directions. It's easy to overlook something, but if you actually outline the form they need to fill out or bold/color/underline the statement... it's kind of hard to excuse that.
And another problem I ran in, and that other person just pointed it out in a comment above, is that when they comment like "I'll take a slot!", I am never sure if they are serious or something...
I think adding that disclaimer will help, if not at least cover your butt if someone gets huffy with you :c It pins the fault on them for not taking the time to read or acknowledge what you require from them as the customer.
I didn't even consider the comment as possible sarcasm, but I could see that too :o
Hopefully things will work out better next time!
Rules are rules, and if that's what works best for you, then that's how it should go.
I will say, though, that only 3 slots on such a popular artist is pretty rough. You might consider a longer-term queue that people might sign up for, but don't put yourself into unwarranted stress or anything doing it. Just a thought.
I don't want to overload myself with work...
Keep on doing what you do, it obviously works!
Also, to actually reply on the topic. Folks who take the time to fill in a form should come before people who try to 'snipe' a spot. Man, what a luxury problem to have Really though, I can totally understand why, your quality is flawless.
As for worrying about time zones, raffles might be an option. Just be clear: you have X slots and will accept forms submitted until Y o'clock (include the time zone!). Then it's luck of the draw.
Another possible option that requires a liiiittle bit of masochism on your part is posting your open slots at different times in the day, possibly even at odd hours for yourself, to even out opportunities.
My main problem is confirming the slot... D:
So the "Form" confirms the slot.
Well I think with that being said you have the be more clear, with Bold type that for the Slot to be confirmed the form needs to be filled out by X number of days, or the slot goes back into play. That way you can weed out those who are not serious.
You can be helpful by giving feedback to the people who mistakenly post in the comments, or note you for a commission. No need to be condescending, just let them know you don't take commission applications that way.
Just state it in your TOS and don't respond to their remarks. You don't deserve the stress they are putting on you weather they realize it or not.
You could also open up 4 slots, and then if someone wants to they can pay first come first serve double the price to get a 5th slot, then double that price to get a 6th slot. Meesh offers "jump ahead of the line" for double the price in his streams, and that seems pretty reasonable if people desperate.
I definitely think keeping the applications open for a short amount of time is the way to go. The #1 thing that keeps me from commissioning some artists is because they take "applications" and then you have to write out your entire commission idea, poses, get references, etc. just for the /chance/ to get chosen. That's too much work up front for me. I tend to tailor my commissions to the interests of the artists, and I like negotiating things up or down fetish wise so that the artist is comfortable, and interested in, the commission.
In any case, it's not really your problem and you shouldn't let other people make it your problem. Just be up front about expectations (upper case, bold, and underlining can help).
Very rarely someone will ask me something I REALLY don't want to draw, so when that happens, I use my "I reserve the right to not accept your commission" rule.
For big commissions, I ask people to send me emails with their ideas, and I tell in the information right away what stuff has high interest, low interest, and no interest at all, so at least they have an idea of what to request.
For sketches and wing its (that is what I offer the most), I request a very, very basic form, that's basically: type of commission, references, keywords, contact. Period. Just that, it doesn't really take a lot of time to fill that, and someone would NEED to fill that anyway, in whatever method they'd use. So instead of ping-ponging comments, why not post everything at once?
Tough skin: I really have a problem with that. It's not like I'm all super sensitive, but I often feel bad with people's sob stories. I keep telling myself to not let it affect me, but in the end it does, I really have a problem saying no. I'm trying to change that, but it's hard. :S
However, my thoughts are the people who take the time to follow your rules should get the priority. After all those are the people who want and care enough to make sure every things right (or at least attempt to).
I ended up hiding my comment (which would've been the next chosen) because I saw the acceptance of the three commissioners and I want the commission to be a surprise for who its for.
as a fellow artist I have little/no sympathy for this type of 'error'. It happens too often.
If they can't take the time to fill out the formt hey don't deserve a slot. In my opinion.
Anyway, my short answer is me agreeing with everyone else, people gots 'ta fill dat form, yo.
I have filled out commission forms that are more in-depth than that. :P
What I'd do is politely refer them to the form, and if they continue to ignore it, then don't count them.
Mistakes can happen, but if they aren't willing to take the few seconds to skim through the journal at the absolute least to get the form filled out, I feel like it means they obviously don't care enough to buy from you.
It's the same to me as people who won't read terms of service. If you're not willing to read a short 5-6 point statement about the rights that PROTECT you and the artist when commissioning them, you obviously don't care enough.
There are a few downsides to the form vs comments for the commissioner in terms of first come first serve.
1. You are the only one who knows who posted first in terms of first come first serve, and so people might not be as comfortable about it because they don't know if filling out the form guarantees them a slot or not. Commenting offers a quick and visual way to keep track of what is and isn't left for the taking for people.
2. If they don't get the slot, it means they'll have the keep filling out the form again and again and again until they do. This can be very tiring for your commissioner. ( This happened to me. I gave up after 8 tries from a different artist )
3. If it is a first come first serve situation - you're going to get more people who don't have an idea of what they want filling out the form for the sake of 'getting in first' than to actually give you proper detail just so they can hope to get the slot. Those that DO fill it out fully with ideas and such will often times not get the first postings to your form which can be deterring unless first come first serve is not what you're offering.
But I believe that if you have a form open - anyone who tries to claim via comment and no form should be over-looked.
What I request in the form is actually the very basic information one should give, that is: type of commission, references, contact. Period. It's not like I request them to fill out questions and questions and questions that would take a ton of time.
I mean... I would need to request those information anyway, in whatever method I'd use, so instead if ping-ponging comments, why not post everything at once?
The only difference is that it was private.
That is why you post so they read what you're asking, then go ahead to fill the form.
Also depending on how fast the forms come in, say you open for two spots. But Syntharia is right, it does take time to accurately fill out the form. And people may be in that rush to do it, and provide you inaccurate information. Therefore not really getting what they want had they took the time instead of being in a rush.
The best method I saw, was to reply to the journal claiming the spot. Then the artist giving a go ahead to submit the form, so said person can take their time. The person does also do their best to list the journal during different times, say 8AM one round, then 10PM the next to give others a chance.
Depending on the response received, you can also alternate with some new ideas of maybe doing a random number spot? Say 10 people comment, and each is given a number.. then do a random number generate to see who gets the spot? Then proceed to have them submit the form.
I also like a level playing field myself, but it's hard to cater to everyone. And you as the artist need to do what is best. I also know what it is like to miss the open spots for artists I have been waiting to commission for a long time. But hey, you win some you lose some. Can only hope to grab them on the next go.
Most times I do, but sometimes... I just don't. :S
"Reply to this journal with colored reference link. Random winners will be chosen, you'll be noted VIA PM of your accepted slot."
Then of course PM your form link? (Of course mention normal TOS)
More of.. not permanent, but maybe to make it a bit more even playing field of sorts?
So with your normal journals, do a surprise sort of random thing so they know beforehand it isn't first come first serve.
But yet a variety of choices that you get to look through first to see what you'd find awesome to art!
Only open the journal for a fixed time and entries after will not be considered?
From what it sounds like you get a lot, so opening a Journal for an hour sounds crazy.
Kinda hard to make it even for everyone, but at least a random idea to try that may be beneficial to you and your commissioners.
So, always give priority to the forms. :)
Thanks for your opinion, it was really helpful.
Also, perhaps add a note to your openings that says "If you do not fill out the form, you will not be considered."
I think that people who fill the form have priority, because they respect you and your time. When I see your commission journal, I think like "oh type faster faster faster!111", but I read all the rules anyway.
I read your comment on the previous journal, but to avoid any problems, I've hidden all the comments except those from the commissioners who got their slot, I hope you don't mind!
OK, I understood it when wrote a comment and saw previous comments hidden!
However... it'd be nice of you to answer on Notes or even E-Mails if they're forwarded to you 'n not ignore them since you especially ask for contact per mail.. :/
If their problem is to get a slot and were in a hurry, you could try warning them as answer so they fill the forms you made.
If they are really interested to commission you, they would fill it up for sure.
But if people get mad at you because of their own lazyness, i think you shouldn't care about it.
Being lazy and even rude or mad at you it's non-sense...
It gives them a heads up on ur terms and it's on them to fill their end of it out. If they really want a comish from you I'm sure they won't mind filling the forum out lickidy split~
Forms are great. Guys with filled forms are top priority.
For those who didn't fill the form you should do a raffle like "first 2 guys get a slot". Those 3 lucky guys should fill the form too, otherwise someone else will have a chance. Some people are not very attentive to details/rules, so they just miss the requirement of the form and don't know where to find it.
Passo por o mesmo mas não atráves de preencher formulários, pelas notes mesmo. Quando junta o fato das timezones serem diferentes plus informações não lidas, sempre tem uma pessoa que acaba se dando mal na lista de commissions, e ela vai reclamar com certeza porque acha que vc está erradissímo.
Compreendo a dor deles tb, mas se eles reclamam que tem de estar tudo certo, então eles tem de fazer certo tb e seguir as regrinhas.
Acho válido você atualizar e/ou acrescentar a informação toda vez que for fazer o journal de "comm open", colocar em negrito, vermelho com globos de discoteca piscando insandecidamente xD, juntamente com o TOS em fonte tamanho 72. (pq boa parte não lê o TOS mesmo xD )
E quanto a resposta final, devido a vc ter várias pessoas interessadas quando vc abre seu journal, acho válido vc dar o slot pra quem preencheu tudo direitinho. Pra quem não preenche não dê a vaga, mas acho que se derrepente ela esqueceu apenas um item do formulário, dependendo do item, tb acho válido dar a vaga pra ela. N variantes, tem de ver sempre na hora como fica.
Espero que vc consiga resolver! :)
E tb queria dizer algo há algum tempo, acho muito legal o formato que vc trabalha com o journal de comm, pedindo que as pessoas coloquem as infos no comentário, acho muito mais prático do que por notes! Comecei a usar isso em alguns journals meus aqui no FA e foi muito melhor do que trabalhar com as notes. As vezes elas parecem tão pilhadas que parece que não está organizado direito LOL
malz ae pela parede de texto aqui xDDD
Good things come to those who wait.
1. Time zones: I am in the UK, a lot of wonderful artists however are not, trying to catch a "slot" means often staying up until 4am in the morning and still praying that you are able to "spam" your comment fast enough, so to speak.
2. Convenience for artist: There is a lot of information you will want or need to see before starting a piece of work, and there is a great difference in the time and quality of work between artists. It makes it a lot easier for artists to also maintain contact with their potential clients. Whether for mailing lists or simply on the work in progress, the ability to have that information to hand is invaluable and saves time in waiting for a response which might be glanced over. It also provides a confirmation of the work being requested and for you to have the ability to pick and be flexible with your work.
3. Convenience for the client: We all have things we must do in real life, some have particular artists we watch waiting for commission slots to arise, but these are not timetabled in with our own breaks in the day. Having the ability to submit a form gives us that little extra flexibility and consideration. It also provides us with the ability to clarify what we want in the commission. It allows for questions to be asked where for example personal information might not be appropriate to place within the journals.
4. Reading your Terms of Service and Conditions: It is vital for every artist to be able to protect their work. the simple fact is that clients who intend to commission need to read the terms of service and agree to them. Filling out a form is a verification of that and should be considered seriously.
The straight forward answer is: You do what you need to for your business. If there is a clear demand for your work then you need to have it organised so that you are not running around more then you need to chasing information then focusing on production. Sorry to put it in rather a .. formal way.
Good luck with your solution :)