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Nov 21: Raffle Roffles, Other FA Things, and Popularity
12 years ago
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|██████████|MIND
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Status: Allergy to stress flaring up
█ Since FA has been set on fire once again (like a pile of burning tires) I figured I might as well input my two cents on the subject, cause why not? (Actually I'm sure there's a bunch of why nots including that of "OMG there's a bazillion journals about this already STFU!). First off is I guess it didn't affect me whatsoever, but that's because I watch relatively few people so I don't encounter a lot of 'raffle advertisement journals'. Even if it did I'd probably just be one of those people who would either unwatch those spamming advertisement journals, or delete them.
The idea itself was pretty genius from an objective standpoint (for the uninformed it's basically someone offering art/money/(insert other prize) for +watching that person and doing a journal shout-out about the contest. Now, why is it genius? Because it hits so many buttons which including the following: Need, greed, money, drama, and requires almost no effort. Buttons which incidentally I actively try to avoid, let alone combining them. In the end though it's a lot of exposure for minimal effort by the person who's doing the raffle and for those participating. The looser of the whole process are people's inboxes which get crammed full of journals which have been changed into advertisements.
Unfortunately a blanket ban on raffle/contests that involves required links to the contest itself does hurt the people with smaller audiences who do it to try and get some more participation, and it's perfectly understandable as such. Though in the end is it a good way to build a watcher base? Ehhh I'd argue it's not.
█ A possible long term solution for this issue (and many others) is to introduce a new hub into FA, even if it's just a forum system that's directly tied (as opposed to the offsite forums). Then people can advertise whatever they want be it auctions, raffles, or streams without spamming submissions or journals. If forum threads can be 'watched' much like how users on FA can be then all the better. My imagination could run with this particular line of thought for awhile, but I think I'll abstain from it cause it's pointless to do so. It's just one of those 'nice to have' things, and in a way journals are kind of like that anyways (except I'm the only person allowed to create thread topics).
█ So on to popularity. Let me say that I dislike the term 'popufur' and it's because it's synonymous with "Oh you get a lot of attention; therefore, you are a prick." (Course I dislike generalizations as a rule). This isn't to mention for people who dislike 'popufurs' so much they spend a lot of time wishing they were one. These lines of thoughts make me want to strangle the internet.
For me personally, I don't view myself as 'popular'; mostly because I've been in constant denial since the first day I set foot on FA. Heck, the memory of the first image I submitted to my gallery is still engrained in my head of "Okay... I've gotten 100 views on my image in one day. I wonder if I should be scared." Other people probably would be going "Awesome" or "Yay people like it!" but for me it has always been a general sense of unease around the attention. I knew from day one that the attention I got here on FA would be atypical from what other people would experience.
This atypical experience is reflected in the times where I now and then compare myself to other users on the site. I didn't notice it until just now, but I recently surpassed one of my favorite artists k-inukai here on FA when it comes to watchers, whom has way higher quality art. (So yeah part of me goes "You're not that good, so why should you have more watchers?) Though at the same time only ~200 submissions to my ~900. So there's something to be said about quality and quantity. Does that I mean I'm more or less 'popular'? Does it even matter? Granted it matters to some people, but it doesn't really matter to me. This isn't to mention there's hundreds of people with more watchers than I do as well.
Speaking of page views, I'm creeping towards half-a-million. That boggles my mind. Even when I looked as I was typing this out my brain went "no it's 50k, not 500k can't be." I don't know, what even?
My mind kind of wandered off there. The reason why I'm even talking about popularity relates back to the whole raffle thing to get more watchers and the like. I'm not sure what the point of it is, as you're not getting an honest watch. This isn't to mention that you're going to lose watchers over the course of the time you spend here on FA (or any site really). People might get bored of your content, or people might be put off but a shift in content; it's kind of lose/lose. Though if you worry about that kind of stuff then you're probably doing art for entirely the wrong reasons to start with.
Defining popularity is also counterproductive I feel. How many watchers does it require to be 'popular'? 10? 100? 1000? 10,000? Why do some people have it as a goal? In the end those who are persistent and push themselves to improve will eventually get attention. I know I keep subtly pushing myself over and over as the quality of my art is notably "better" (I guess) over the past 5 years, and I do my best to put something out on a semi-frequent basis (when depression doesn't get in the way). The people who don't gain much traction in the way of attention I find are those who haven't submitted very many things; or if they have, are too scared to push their own boundaries and their art stagnates. (Plenty of good but boring artists out there who never seem to deviate from a standing pose).
In the end (for the most part anyways) I do art for my own enjoyment. If others enjoy it with me, hey that's a bonus; I do want the whole thing to be a positive experience for others, not a negative one. Those things to me are the most important things for becoming 'popular'.
|██████████|MIND
|██████████|SOUL
Status: Allergy to stress flaring up
█ Since FA has been set on fire once again (like a pile of burning tires) I figured I might as well input my two cents on the subject, cause why not? (Actually I'm sure there's a bunch of why nots including that of "OMG there's a bazillion journals about this already STFU!). First off is I guess it didn't affect me whatsoever, but that's because I watch relatively few people so I don't encounter a lot of 'raffle advertisement journals'. Even if it did I'd probably just be one of those people who would either unwatch those spamming advertisement journals, or delete them.
The idea itself was pretty genius from an objective standpoint (for the uninformed it's basically someone offering art/money/(insert other prize) for +watching that person and doing a journal shout-out about the contest. Now, why is it genius? Because it hits so many buttons which including the following: Need, greed, money, drama, and requires almost no effort. Buttons which incidentally I actively try to avoid, let alone combining them. In the end though it's a lot of exposure for minimal effort by the person who's doing the raffle and for those participating. The looser of the whole process are people's inboxes which get crammed full of journals which have been changed into advertisements.
Unfortunately a blanket ban on raffle/contests that involves required links to the contest itself does hurt the people with smaller audiences who do it to try and get some more participation, and it's perfectly understandable as such. Though in the end is it a good way to build a watcher base? Ehhh I'd argue it's not.
█ A possible long term solution for this issue (and many others) is to introduce a new hub into FA, even if it's just a forum system that's directly tied (as opposed to the offsite forums). Then people can advertise whatever they want be it auctions, raffles, or streams without spamming submissions or journals. If forum threads can be 'watched' much like how users on FA can be then all the better. My imagination could run with this particular line of thought for awhile, but I think I'll abstain from it cause it's pointless to do so. It's just one of those 'nice to have' things, and in a way journals are kind of like that anyways (except I'm the only person allowed to create thread topics).
█ So on to popularity. Let me say that I dislike the term 'popufur' and it's because it's synonymous with "Oh you get a lot of attention; therefore, you are a prick." (Course I dislike generalizations as a rule). This isn't to mention for people who dislike 'popufurs' so much they spend a lot of time wishing they were one. These lines of thoughts make me want to strangle the internet.
For me personally, I don't view myself as 'popular'; mostly because I've been in constant denial since the first day I set foot on FA. Heck, the memory of the first image I submitted to my gallery is still engrained in my head of "Okay... I've gotten 100 views on my image in one day. I wonder if I should be scared." Other people probably would be going "Awesome" or "Yay people like it!" but for me it has always been a general sense of unease around the attention. I knew from day one that the attention I got here on FA would be atypical from what other people would experience.
This atypical experience is reflected in the times where I now and then compare myself to other users on the site. I didn't notice it until just now, but I recently surpassed one of my favorite artists k-inukai here on FA when it comes to watchers, whom has way higher quality art. (So yeah part of me goes "You're not that good, so why should you have more watchers?) Though at the same time only ~200 submissions to my ~900. So there's something to be said about quality and quantity. Does that I mean I'm more or less 'popular'? Does it even matter? Granted it matters to some people, but it doesn't really matter to me. This isn't to mention there's hundreds of people with more watchers than I do as well.
Speaking of page views, I'm creeping towards half-a-million. That boggles my mind. Even when I looked as I was typing this out my brain went "no it's 50k, not 500k can't be." I don't know, what even?
My mind kind of wandered off there. The reason why I'm even talking about popularity relates back to the whole raffle thing to get more watchers and the like. I'm not sure what the point of it is, as you're not getting an honest watch. This isn't to mention that you're going to lose watchers over the course of the time you spend here on FA (or any site really). People might get bored of your content, or people might be put off but a shift in content; it's kind of lose/lose. Though if you worry about that kind of stuff then you're probably doing art for entirely the wrong reasons to start with.
Defining popularity is also counterproductive I feel. How many watchers does it require to be 'popular'? 10? 100? 1000? 10,000? Why do some people have it as a goal? In the end those who are persistent and push themselves to improve will eventually get attention. I know I keep subtly pushing myself over and over as the quality of my art is notably "better" (I guess) over the past 5 years, and I do my best to put something out on a semi-frequent basis (when depression doesn't get in the way). The people who don't gain much traction in the way of attention I find are those who haven't submitted very many things; or if they have, are too scared to push their own boundaries and their art stagnates. (Plenty of good but boring artists out there who never seem to deviate from a standing pose).
In the end (for the most part anyways) I do art for my own enjoyment. If others enjoy it with me, hey that's a bonus; I do want the whole thing to be a positive experience for others, not a negative one. Those things to me are the most important things for becoming 'popular'.
For example, an artist I liked (and even commissioned previously for nontrivial sums of money) basically snubs his own rules in a YCH, then deletes (instead of moving it to scrap) to preserve his image when someone asks, nicely, whether or not the bids made after closing were valid - and if so can they counter bid.
So for 50 bucks more, this artist throws away the valid bidders (who bid before close) then ignores them when they call 'em on the bullshit. But they can do that because everyone salivates over their art. Sure, it may be decent, but that behavior is what makes them "popufur," not the viewcount. The "Everyone loves my art so I can do whatever the fuck I want and make money doing it" attitude is what makes me unwatch someone and move my money to other artists.
Take an artist like
As for the other part, to be honest, FA isn't the best medium for YCH/Raffles. Furbid also sucks as a website. It'd be better if there was a sister site to FA that offered a linked medium for YCH/Raffles/other spreading (and I'd do it myself if I had the time) - I've got the money and technical knowledge to get the infrastructure squared away.. Anyway, I digress. FA wasn't a great medium for it, but you can still spread your art and raffles and auctions through it. Just use other social media to market your stuff.
And don't be an elitist popufur - people hate that shit. :D
As for defining "popularity", that's rather subjective outside the dictionary definition. Defining "popufur" for me is easier. It's when that abstract nature of popularity over inflates one's ego to the point of something akin to a superiority complex. It's when people think they're "better" than you because they have more watchers/favorites, that there is some measure of intrinsic superiority attached to how "popular" they are. Such people often flaunt it as well, as they desire even more attention, in an "absolute power corrupts absolutely" kinda way, only being highly irritating moreso than dangerous.
And personally, I really don't much care the number of watchers (great people as some of them are) or favorites I get, but the comments. I love feedback, as that's where it's really at.
As for the "unwritten rule", that just sounds strange to me. I mean, people stumble across art in odd ways. For instance, I've found great art perusing through another artist's favorites, and felt I had to share my mind on the piece, even it was posted months before. I feel that, no matter how long ago something was posted, respectful feedback is generally always appreciated. Most comments are likely to happen within days after posting, because that's when watchers will see if and decide to comment or not, but non-watchers can potentially find it at any time, much to my pleasant surprise.
The only reason I'd want to be popular personally is to expose my ideas more, and hopefully inspire others to be just as creative as I try to be (also comments since they can inspire more ideas :D) I tend to consider people with 1,000+ watches popular, so you'd fall into that category. But it's a good thing with you. You're one of the few artists that comes up with extremely creative ideas. The fact you don't care about popularity is even better, cause you won't let it get to your head and stop coming up with those creative ideas, regardless of your occasional periods of not drawing. And your ideas have definitely inspired others! Whether or not inspiring people had anything to do with you being here, I'm glad it happened anyway~
In terms of the word "popufur" - well, I see it as derogatory. In general, to me, it refers to ones attitude. One can be unpopular in the community yet still be a popufur, because they act like they're the almighty furry who is better than everyone else. In general it refers to the nasty attitude that comes from perceived popularity and a massive ego. These people tend to amass a following of furs who put up with their awful behavior because they cannot see through the perceived popularity and/or entirely ignore the fact that these people just don't care about anyone else except themselves and the image of "popularity". I believe it has something to do with the social hierarchy of the community, where people with confidence/perceived popularity tend to gather followers who wish for some of that to rub off on them (even when that confidence is negatively directed). To contrast, someone can be a very well known fur and not be a popufur, because they don't act that way.
The ad spam, from my perspective, was getting out of hand. 9/10ths of the journals I saw were the same people posting countless times for different raffles and whatnot. In the end I just unwatched them then when someone asked why I wrote a short journal explaining how I lacked bias towards the matter and even if you were the best artist ever if you spammed raffle journals I'd unwatch. Suddenly, I have no more journal spam. Go figure.
And btw, I think you are a role-model for lots of people here on FA. You are an amazing artist without having a certain 'I am better than others' attitude, you are humble and you think about things thouroughly, and give us your own uncensored point of view. These are all things I admire.
A user can watch an artist but nor this artist nor anyone can know he has been watched.
It will avoid the "popufur" race, which is ridiculous.
Popularity is a bit like alchool: is good to have but if you start to wanting more then you're eighter going drunk or in the worst case dependant from it to the point of ruining your (artist) life.
My ego swelled so much that day that I had issues fitting my head through doorframes.
I find the popufur thing is a lot like elementary and jr high school. You see that person at the lunch table swarmed by friends and though you loathe them for being so cool, you secretly wish you had that many people gushing over you. It's human nature. We are a social species, only truly at peace in small crowds. Naturally, there are always exceptions. Some people prefer huge crowds (and usually go on to become entertainers of some kind) and some people prefer to be alone, but generally we need SOME form of recognition that we exist from other people.
I mostly draw for other people because the comments and mild ego trips inspire me to keep drawing. Since I love to draw, this is helpful for those moments when my crazy bipolar mind decides it's going to plunge me into an unproductive depression for months at a time. I don't have a lot of active watchers (maybe ten on a good day) but the few that do participate regularly have become good friends, feeding that little need for social interaction that nags at my mind. ^_^
I don't think you need a ton of watchers to be popular. I know your tag is more or less a household name in the circles that enjoy your art. Kind of like how tavimunk is the household name of clean cub art or felixpath is one of THE breathplay guys. Sure there are people who have better art or more watchers, but people like what they like I suppose.
FA needs to evolve. The internet/ the online community/ and technology are all constantly changing, "evolving" (in a sense). FA does not want to change, because it's owner and moderators either cannot afford to change, or fear change. Therefore the option of change is not an option to them. Because progress would just make too much sense.
There is so many features that FA needs that if given the opportunity to present them to the furry public, the site may actually become more appealing, and may mirror/ or even out-do Facebook.
For example.
FA Feature Ideas (of mine):
NOTE BOARD- A section of ones page where people can pin up "to do" lists and even have personal reminders of upcoming conventions and B-Days and so on.
PEOPLE FINDER- If you happen to meet a person at a convention who happens to be wearing a fursuit (or a particular badge with no name), but did not get their name, you simply go to the people finder page that you can then pin-point who they are by entering their: Fur color, species, eye color, height, etc. The site would then narrow down the list of possible candidates as you continue to include more details.
I think these features would be beneficial to the site.
Apart from very few journals I find most of them to be Streaming advertisements which I do find annoying as I come here at weird times and 90% of the time they are over anyway but they don't really interest me in the first place. As for raffles well I think its the best way artists have to spread themselves around by offering something and then getting hopefuls to advertise for them. I for one am happy to make a journal nobody will ever read in exchange for entering a competition. In fact I sometimes feel a little guilty that I'm entering an not really achieving anything with the advertising. (I know know body reads them as I've practically asked on one for any response just to see if they had and got nothing on it at all. But thats not surprising as I have few watchers and I don't quite understand why they watch me as I never post anything.)
In the end is it really that hard to just go down the list ticking all the ones that state streaming and then press delete? Its what I do. 38 out of todays 51 journals deleted without even opening. (About 4 days worth of journals)