I'm hoping there will be someone to take the reins. OMG. That was the best con ever for me hands down. And that's saying a lot considering background fail that was happening in my life.

*hugs*

Im glad i got to meet you and hang with u Storm. It was great furs like you that made the con fun for me.

*hugs tight* Likewise to you good sir! I look forward to visiting with you again. I had a wonderful time. :)

Yeah i saw the journal and leaks and stuff.. how do you know for 100% sure its gone?

Both Furfrights LiveJournal and Facebook pages have the announcement [AKA the leaked e-mail]

It's sad, but like I am telling everyone that this same thing happened to FCN and I think at least one other big con this year, an newer cons popped up. Sure, it won't be no FurFright, but to me a con is as good as the people that attend it, so there could be some potential.

Nonetheless, I'm sad. FF'13 was my first fur con ever, the first con I ever suited at and I probably wouldn't have met all the awesome people like you if I hadn't gone, so it will always be held dear.

I am glad i met u as well ^^ *hugs*

YOU LIKED FURFRIGHT 2012?!?!?!

Wooooooow....that was literally the WORST con ever. I wish you were at 2011. That year was grand.

I'm just hoping the replacement con won't involve the dorsai. Those fuckheads are straight up retarded.

For me it was the best cause it was my first time in my new suit and the dorsai didn't bother me thank god. I do honestly wish i went to 2011 because i heard it was a blast. If there is a replacement con i will have to think hard about going.

Why would you have to think hard about going?

I just want to see if whoever is running the new con has their act together and the con isnt all messed up.

Honey, I'm sure it'll be fine. Nothing can be worse than FurFright 2012. Do you actually attend the panels, though?

I DUNNO EVERY FAU HAS SUCKED SO FAR

<3

(I remember hanging around in the front hotel-lobby entrance with the dorsai guard to try and mitigate how people were treated and/or get people in that I knew with less trouble than otherwise - just because my badge was supposed to say staff didn't mean I agreed with anything they did or said)

Hey, I had a great time at FAU this past year. :p

And i might want to switch things up and do MFF ^^

MFF is amazing if you like to party.

DO IT ! I still want to meet you at MFF. I had a great time and saw Tilt Longtail !

What did the Dorsai do to you that you witnessed first hand?

I saw them bullying others, and they also tried to refuse my entry through to the main entrance of the hotel, because I didn't have a con badge....that's not legal. You can't deny a person entry to the actual hotel. It's NOT con space.

To be fair the hotel did start that particular thing, but it's not the concept, it's the implementation that killed me

That part I didn't even know, but yea...they went about it in the wrong way completely. They were even following my friends around the hotel, in their faces and very nearly put their hands on them. How ridiculous can you get?

And yes, I SAW them in my friends' faces. I witnessed it, but didn't report it because they already were, since they were the ones getting really harassed.

Oh, they were "Bullying" others? Are you sure? They were actually emotionally, verbally or physically abusing other people? Can you be more specific? And would these people you directly witnessed allow you to be speaking for them right now? Would they agree that they were being physically abused?

And "legal?" Can you show me the federal or state law that says it's illegal to deny entrance into a hotel? Maybe what they did was -annoying- or -frustrating- but it's legal. They were asked to do that by the hotel because of loitering and crowd issues and they tried it briefly. Perhaps they figured it could be helpful against Ghosting too. They realized it was not a good measure so they stopped. I don't know why they were allegedly rude in that one situation to so many people - maybe it was just a moment of bad judgment. At any rate they figured out it was a bad idea and they stopped.

But you feel their actions were unjust not because they were rude but because you seem to think it's illegal. Maybe they were even nice to you - you didn't say. Maybe you blindly believed what other people were saying who wanted to just start shit with the Dorsai like they do every year.

Here are some informative parts of the FurFright Code of Conduct from 2012 that was published on the website and available to every attendee in the con book:

"FurFright's Security volunteers, staff members, and the hotel staff are allowed to enforce FurFright's Code of Conduct and the hotel's regulations at any time during the convention and during your stay at the hotel at their discretion. Enforcement may consist of badge warning marks, badge confiscation and ejection from the convention/hotel, permanent banning from future events, and/or possible arrest by local authorities. Attendees are required to respect and obey all Security personnel, convention staff, and hotel employees."

"If anyone has a problem before, during, or after the con, or has information about individuals violating the Code of Conduct, come to [...] Con Ops at the convention or contact us through the email addresses on our website and we'll assist you. Do not bring issues or complaints to the hotel front desk or hotel staff unless they specifically have to do with the hotel's service..."

"Attendees are only allowed to gather in designated convention space or their hotel rooms. Do not loiter in the public areas of the hotel (i.e. near front desk, parking lot, near entrances and exits, etc)."

"When talking to hotel guests or staff or when you're in their vicinity, always be kind and polite. Anyone displaying rude, offensive behavior, directly or indirectly, will have their badges confiscated and be removed from the con."

"FurFright is a privately run event, and reserves the right to refuse admission to any individual for any reason."

So tell me again why you think it's illegal to be denied into the con without a con badge?

If you felt so wronged and insulted by security's behavior you could have gotten the name of the offending staff member and reported the incident to Con Ops where it would have become the convention's responsibility to look into the issue. Instead you must have decided that the problem was not significant enough to report because you didn't go to Con Ops and you just let them get away with it instead. Now you're complaining about them here, without having ever given anyone the chance to address the problem you had and take care of it. A member of Con Ops could have been very helpful by listening to your issue privately, writing as much detail down as possible so the con had a public record of the incident, and take the time after the con to figure out why what happened happened and make sure it doesn't ever happen again. You're whining and griping about something you say happened, but why didn't you take this to the correct channel? Why did you just stand there and take it? Why only whine about it online? If you truly wanted things to change why didn't you do something about it?

This year a few complaints were made to staff about one specific volunteer working security. It turned out that the volunteer was in the wrong and the staff would not have allowed her in an authority role next year. (Most likely this is still true, since some of the staff who are aware of the incident will be helping at the new convention.) Hey, the system works!

The same goes for the random people you claim were "bullied" by security. You could have helped them by telling them to report the issue to con ops, and of course none of them did.

Goodness, im sorry to be causing all this trouble on my journal..

It's okay. You're not being an asshole. Other people are.

Other people most definitely reported their issues, and many words fell upon deaf ears as well. Mine wasn't significant enough to bother with, because I just walked right past them. I NEVER said I was denied access to the con space without a badge. They tried to deny my access to the hotel itself, in which I had a room and was a legal customer.
I don't need to defend any more of my words to you. You jump down my throat with all this bullshit and I just don't give a fuck anymore. All I was saying that 2012 security was a bag of shit and it wasn't okay.

Fuckin done here.

Nope. Other people most definitely did NOT report their issues - not to con ops - and the convention was given absolutely no time to handle the issues, because staff was still packing up and trying to get to their homes on Monday in the middle of a hurricane while a certain few people decided to start taking their complaints to the internet instead of the proper channel. Con Ops received EXACTLY ONE complaint about the Dorsai all weekend. It was from someone who quickly followed up his statement with "I don't want you to do anything about this." And before anything even could be done about it he went home and helped start that online drama shitstorm.

If your problems weren't significant enough to bother with then they aren't significant enough to complain about back home. If you didn't give a fuck anymore then it absolutely boggles my mind that, as soon as you saw a very good friend of mine mourning the loss of a great con who felt moved enough to say how happy it made him, you found it necessary to go out of your way and insult him with such assinine and thoughtless remarks.

YOU LIKED FURFRIGHT 2012?!?!?! Wooooooow....that was literally the WORST con ever.

I'm just hoping the replacement con won't involve the dorsai. Those fuckheads are straight up retarded.

Calling members of con staff retarded! Implying that someone is so dumb to have actually liked a con you didn't like! And you're wondering why I'm jumping down your throat?

There are so many furries who have chosen to blindly accept others' wildly embellished (and in some cases plain false) stories about the behavior of a group of volunteers who are trying to help keep an event fun, to make them look like they do nothing but make an event miserable. So many furries gullible enough to believe those stories because it's about an authority figure, and who choose to perpetuate the lies and spread rumors over and over again, yet when they're actually pressed for information about problems they back off and give excuses like "It wasn't important enough to file a complaint about," which pretty much kills the argument right there. So many furries jumping on the bandwagon to unfairly prosecute good people and a great event. I'm jumping down your throat because not only are you one of those people, but right here in this thread you've chosen to insult good friends of mine and make it personal.

Obviously you choose to think that what I'm saying is bullshit and the bullshit you are leaning on to make your case is the truth. I guess there's no way to fix that. Maybe in the future you'll learn how to actually handle problems - by actually doing something about them instead of sitting around and whining about them and insulting people.

tldr

Your response is so typical of what I came to expect from FurFright staff. Either total ignorance, or blatant lies.

Yes, we did witness completely and totally inappropriate behavior by Dorsai, including assault and physical abuse. I was personally threatened by "Sergeant" Steve, who lied to FurFright staff about me claiming I threatened him with violence when I had done nothing of the sort.

Yes, these issues were reported to staff. Staff witnessed it, including a director. A director who promised me it was repeatedly brought up with Belic and K'Gra. A director who very graciously showed me an email from Belic to staff instructing them to ignore my complaints.

Complaints were taken to the internet after it was clear that staff was ignoring them. If Belic and K'Gra told you they didn't hear any complaints about the Dorsai, they were lying to you.

You don't have to take my word for it. Here's a post from a FurFright staff member -- "I personally received several complaints about the Dorsai this year. I also made several of my own complaints as well. I handed mine off to the Reg Director." --http://www.reddit.com/r/furry/comme....._belic/c6tnx2x

Maybe you'll take a "popufur" more seriously? https://twitter.com/matthewebel/sta.....25537431175168

You can think what you want about the Dorsai but don't you fucking dare tell me that the trainwreck I experienced at FF 2012, and which plenty of other people saw as well, didn't happen.

If you felt so wronged and insulted by security's behavior you could have gotten the name of the offending staff member and reported the incident to Con Ops where it would have become the convention's responsibility to look into the issue.

It's around 1:30am. Con Ops is closed. Dorsai are physically preventing me from entering the hotel where I am a paid guest. Explain to me how your answer is helpful.

Instead you must have decided that the problem was not significant enough to report because you didn't go to Con Ops and you just let them get away with it instead.

Is this level of sarcasm the way con staff always handles issues?

It was reported to staff. It was *witnessed* by staff. It was discussed with B&K. Staff knew. Directors knew. B&K knew. Belic instructed staff to ignore it, and the only response that I got to being treated like shit by staff was getting banned.

take the time after the con to figure out why what happened happened and make sure it doesn't ever happen again.

How does that help me get into my hotel room at 1:30am?

You're whining and griping about something you say happened, but why didn't you take this to the correct channel?

We did.

Why did you just stand there and take it?

We didn't.

Why only whine about it online?

We didn't.

If you truly wanted things to change why didn't you do something about it?

At least 298 people wanted things to change. Why didn't FurFright do anything about it? http://www.change.org/petitions/bel.....e-at-furfright

Listen up, bud. I went to every FurFright for 10 years, from 2003 to 2012. I was a big vocal supporter of the con, as big as someone with virtually no connections in the fandom can be. Even while I was staffing another convention, I always looked up to - and looked forward to - FurFright.

I could deal with being treated like shit by the Dorsai if the con staff had responded in a reasonable and responsible way. They didn't. I was ignored, dismissed, accused of being a liar, troublemaker, and troll, and eventually banned. No apology. No condolences. No "we'll look into it." Nothing. There was no interest whatsoever in "making sure it doesn't ever happen again" -- they were only concerned with silencing me.

There is not a single thing you can say that will discredit my experience, or make what I know happened to me go away. If you want to sit in denial, do it. But Belic and K'Gra discredited themselves by not only failing to take this seriously, but also ignoring and silencing my complaints to the point where even other staff doesn't know what happened.

Besides, what kind of bullshit is it to ignore complaints just because they were posted online instead of being brought to staff? That's not how you treat your guests. You look into complaints regardless of how they come to you. Your response -- this whole "bring it to staff quietly and in private or we'll ignore you" attitude -- is a great way to hide complaints from public view, but a shitty way to actually take care of your guests.

I witnessed several complaints being made. I tendered several others myself.

If only one report was 'received', someone was stuffing socks in mouths.

I witnessed several *senior* (that surprised me) Dorsai being short and snappy where it honestly wasn't required, probably due to fatigue or external pressure, but it's a customer service position, that's not acceptable.

My staff did their jobs well. Only one complaint was made to Con Ops.

It's Saturday night/Sunday morning, between 1-2am. Con Ops is CLOSED, so there's nobody there to bring a complaint to at the time. The next best option is complaining to Security, but it's a problem WITH Security, so that's a non-starter.

Everything quiets down, then a fire alarm gets pulled, and everyone gets to spend an hour or so outside. Incidentally, your security did NOTHING to help. I actually watched them sit at the security desk and DO NOTHING TO HELP while the alarm was going off. An attendee had to start guiding people out because security did NOTHING.

So the next morning, everyone is tired as fuck. And with the impending storm bearing down, everyone wants to leave. You know this. You talked about it above.

staff was still packing up and trying to get to their homes on Monday in the middle of a hurricane

You know who else was doing the same thing? All of the attendees. Nobody wanted to get stuck in that.

It's completely unreasonable to think that people would stick around just to complain a second time. Yes, second. Staff was there. They saw what happened. They knew a lot of attendees were pissed. Complaints were immediate. That's enough.

So, keep harping on this "con ops only heard one complaint" bullshit. It doesn't matter. Even if you're right, it doesn't matter - because plenty of members of con staff, including a director, both heard complaints and witnessed the reason for them. I was in touch with a couple of them well after the convention, for literally the entire next year. I know Belic and K'Gra saw the complaints. I saw an email from Belic telling staff to ignore the complaints. They were, and are, aware. They just don't care.

I got treated like shit by FurFright security, and the entire staff -- including you -- is only interested in denying that anything inappropriate happened, dismissing legitimate complaints because they weren't made "the right way," and pretending that means there wasn't a problem.

The complaints I received were given either to Steve or to Giza. I figured that was more useful and direct than giving them to an Ops staffer.

There's also that they happened to BE the ones staffing Ops at the time. That might have something to do with the lack of reports 'received'.

Giza and Steve were not on ops. Just security.

In reference to my post above - after the decision was made to stop people at the front door who didn't have their convention badges (not room keys, but their convention registration badge), many people were stranded outside the hotel on trips for food or other ventures, having left their registration badge in their room.

Standing at the front door, trying to figure out exactly what was going on, I was witness (and intervention) in a number of people being turned away at the door and having to call friends or room-share-ers for help, and no small number of them were treated rudely. To be fair, not all of them were, nor was the idea to badge at the door necessarily a bad idea (and the Dorsai were instructed to do something of the sort by the hotel, as I understand), but it was implemented in haste and irritation instead of considerate and rational of the situation they were really dealing with.

The explosion with Sciggles was similar - she was laden with conbadges but not her FF2012 registration badge and was turned away at the door coming back from a visit outward. It was obvious she wasn't a random streetwalker, and she didn't come off brusque or confrontational but confused when she was stopped. Things became heated and terse when not only was she turned away, she wasn't permitted to retrieve her badge from her room (she had a room key on her which wasn't admitted as proof of her attendance) and DN had to go get it.

Yea, my torso was also covered in badges, but some chick decided to try to get in my way, but I just kept walking and paid her no mind, because it clearly wasn't the right thing to be doing. Con space is one thing, but the hotel itself is another.
I also feel the hotel has become too small for the con, which is why there was such a crowd issue that made the hotel want to take action. I really hope the new con is at a bigger hotel, because this one is just done. Maxed out.

I was happy to meet you at the con and see your suit in person!

Same here my friend. My next con is Furthermore. Hope to see u there.

I will be there!

Ohh and Fal's party next weekend.

Tears in me eyes.

*comforts the sad Moose* Im glad i got to meet u as well. ^^

Thanks so much, you are wonderful.

ANTHROCON!

I have always wanted to go to AC. 2014 might be the year.

ANTHROCON!

I can tentatively confirm another con is in the works and yes I've agreed to help. Good God why did I do something so foolish *laughs* I could have been free...

Needless to say I don't think it will fill those shoes, Furfright has a secure legacy and although the new con will be similar i am sure it won't be the same.

Oh noo, u got sucked into helping. hee hee! Well i think they made a great choice asking u to help =)

Pfffft I do what I can where I can and what I can. Can I? *laughs* I couldn't help myself, I do it to make people happy and I don't want to disapoint the many people who have gone

Bar Wars Director? :D

When the command structure of the new con is decided I'll definitely put in for that one :)

As the creator of Bar Wars I am permanently ending Bar Wars! It's my baby and nobody else can ever call anything Bar Wars again! ;)

j/k can you imagine though...?

If by creation you mean owing me a drink sure *laughs* Ok you, me Bjorn do solemy swear we will never end Bar Wars....until our livers give out

Loving your avatar btw :D

Thanks! created by shadowdestroyer

When the command structure of the new con is decided I'll definitely put in for that one :)

Who do I talk to about this? Are the old people still doing their thing?

never went yet=(