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PET PEEVE TIME
11 years ago
I CAN'T STAND IT WHEN CHARACTERS ARE HYBRIDS OF 50 FUCKING THIGS FOR NO REASON
ESPECIALLY WHEN THERE ARE LITERALLY
NO
FEATURES
FROM
THE ANIMAL
THEY ARE HYBRIDS OF
AND ESPECIALLY
WHEN THE LIST OF HYBRID SPECIES
INCLUDES IN AN ENTIRELY MADE-UP SPECIES
LIKE
Why hybridize a wolf/cat/dog/red panda/fox/leopard/bat/otter/fennec if the character is literally just a tan cat with non-retractable claws, spots, and a striped tail.
No wings. No big ears. No pointed tail. No plantigrade or backward feet. Just a cat with certain markings.
At that point, where does the bat and otter even come in? Like, WHY EVEN PUT THEM ON THE LIST.
And then if you toss "fairy wolf" into the mix then it's like WHAT?? WHAT IS A FAIRY WOLF? WHAT DEFINES THAT?? //WHY DO THE OTHER SPECIES EVEN NEED TO BE THERE IF LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE FEATURE LISTED CAN BE NATURAL TO A SPECIES THAT IS FICTIONAL IN ITS ENTIRETY??//
I'll tell you why.
To make the creator feel special
But slapping different labels on a design does NOT make it creative
In fact, the LESS hybrids you try to throw in to justify your creation, the MORE CREATIVE IT GENERALLY SEEMS
Don't get me wrong-- making hybrids, integrated-species, species-inspired designs, etc. are all well and good! I love hybrid critters as much as normal critters!
But there's still ways to do it right/wrong, just like with normal characters.
And throwing in many-species hybrids is how you ruin any good design.
- If your character is a canine with slightly large ears, it doesn't HAVE to be part fennec.
- If your character has a striped tail, it doesn't HAVE to be part lemur, red panda, etc.
- If your character has snaggle-teeth, it doesn't HAVE to be part bat, sabertooth, etc.
- If your character has a big nose, it doesn't HAVE to be part otter, ferret, etc.
because SPECIES HAVE NATURAL DIFFERENCES AND DIVERSITY
As long as it isn't DRASTIC (i.e. Obviously gargantuan, fennec-like ears) or UNNATURAL (i.e. Paws/pawpads and/or movable ears on a lemur) then you don't HAVE to throw in a different species to explain it.
So please just
Be creative naturally
Because trying to force creativity with unnecessary labels
Makes your designs significantly weaker
(Plus causes you to lose respect, and kinda look like a tool, just saying.)
That's all from me.
GOODNIGHT, DEARIES, AND HAPPY NEW YEARS EVE~!
ESPECIALLY WHEN THERE ARE LITERALLY
NO
FEATURES
FROM
THE ANIMAL
THEY ARE HYBRIDS OF
AND ESPECIALLY
WHEN THE LIST OF HYBRID SPECIES
INCLUDES IN AN ENTIRELY MADE-UP SPECIES
LIKE
Why hybridize a wolf/cat/dog/red panda/fox/leopard/bat/otter/fennec if the character is literally just a tan cat with non-retractable claws, spots, and a striped tail.
No wings. No big ears. No pointed tail. No plantigrade or backward feet. Just a cat with certain markings.
At that point, where does the bat and otter even come in? Like, WHY EVEN PUT THEM ON THE LIST.
And then if you toss "fairy wolf" into the mix then it's like WHAT?? WHAT IS A FAIRY WOLF? WHAT DEFINES THAT?? //WHY DO THE OTHER SPECIES EVEN NEED TO BE THERE IF LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE FEATURE LISTED CAN BE NATURAL TO A SPECIES THAT IS FICTIONAL IN ITS ENTIRETY??//
I'll tell you why.
To make the creator feel special
But slapping different labels on a design does NOT make it creative
In fact, the LESS hybrids you try to throw in to justify your creation, the MORE CREATIVE IT GENERALLY SEEMS
Don't get me wrong-- making hybrids, integrated-species, species-inspired designs, etc. are all well and good! I love hybrid critters as much as normal critters!
But there's still ways to do it right/wrong, just like with normal characters.
And throwing in many-species hybrids is how you ruin any good design.
- If your character is a canine with slightly large ears, it doesn't HAVE to be part fennec.
- If your character has a striped tail, it doesn't HAVE to be part lemur, red panda, etc.
- If your character has snaggle-teeth, it doesn't HAVE to be part bat, sabertooth, etc.
- If your character has a big nose, it doesn't HAVE to be part otter, ferret, etc.
because SPECIES HAVE NATURAL DIFFERENCES AND DIVERSITY
As long as it isn't DRASTIC (i.e. Obviously gargantuan, fennec-like ears) or UNNATURAL (i.e. Paws/pawpads and/or movable ears on a lemur) then you don't HAVE to throw in a different species to explain it.
So please just
Be creative naturally
Because trying to force creativity with unnecessary labels
Makes your designs significantly weaker
(Plus causes you to lose respect, and kinda look like a tool, just saying.)
That's all from me.
GOODNIGHT, DEARIES, AND HAPPY NEW YEARS EVE~!
My thoughts EXACTLY
Just having the MARKINGS doesn't make it a hybrid.
I have some characters that may be a ____ (gryphon, dog, whatever) and have coloration from another animal (bird, lizard, etc.) but they aren't... a hybrid? Because hybrids virtually never work that way (gaining the complete markings of one species but the shape of another.) Look at ligers, etc.
JUST
SAY THAT IT'S BLANK ANIMAL, WITH MARKINGS BASED OFF OF BLANK SECOND ANIMAL.
NOT THAT HARD.
AND IT SOUNDS A LOT LESS IGNORANT AND/OR "TRYING TOO HARD".
People ALWAYS make lemurs digitigrade, too. Even when they DO give them lemur hands+feet, THEY STILL MAKE THEM DIGI? //HOW?//
I get so sick of seeing the kangaroo thing, too. >8C AND PAWS ON BATS. OMFG.
At that point, a hybrid is NECESSARY. But, most other times? REALLY NOT.
Haha yeah, it's like anthro is a mix of human + animal, not human + dog + maybe some of the animal you're calling it.
I still don't understand how people can really not get what RABBITS LOOK LIKE when they're such a common pet!??? or like rodents for the matter??? insanity.
And dude, omg, that's why I will never understand paws on a lemur. Because kangaroos with dog-feet is bad enough, but paws on a lemur is literally DE-ANTHROPOMORPHIZING THEM.
They ALREADY have humanoid hands and feet. [I]THEY ARE A PRIMATE. //WHY ARE PEOPLE DOING THIS?//[/b]
"That's my style" isn't even an excuse, at that point. Unless they also draw all their 100% normal humans with paws?? In which case, their style is just "make everything a were-creature".
BUT, YES.
It bugs me when people call rabbits rodents. And sugar gliders rodents. And FERRETS rodents, OMG.
It's like "WHAT? SMALL PET-LIKE ANIMAL? MUST BE A RODENT!"
With rabbits, I think what contributes to the pawpaw issue is 1. Any cartoon rabbit ever, and 2. The thought that maybe they have pawpads under their foot-fluff.
BUT W/E. At least other lagomorph species at least have padded toes (like rodents, etc.) so it's not 100% wrong to put a pink pad on the fingertips or whatevs. But when they give them actual dog/cat-shaped feet instead of their little padded hand-feet, it's crossing the line. :V
As for the hybrids... when I start thinking about the whole furry civilisation things I cannot help but think that if evry different species of morph can breed with every other different species to produce a viable offspring which can then go on and breed with other hybrids you would never have any distinct species at all, and just have a real mix of different traits in different characters, but like the humans of today, they would not necessarily be able to list them - I mean how many people can list their entire ancestral line. So you'd just get characters with big ears that might indicate fennec or rabbit ancestry, short muzzles or long snouts, digitigrade stance or plantigrade. When making my hybrid characters I tend to stick to two different species - Abigail my lemur/wolf is particularly fun to conceptualise. I used to enjoy challenging artists to draw her. You can see an awesome "feral" version of her in my "Favourites".
That's why in my more recent novels, if it ain't already more-or-less anthro, it isn't going to become it. My lemur novels have lemurs and monkeys that both use tools and display a level of creative intelligence, but they are still, fundamentally (well, maybe a bit smarter and they have colour vision), no different from the lemurs we see today. Some walk on all fours (which makes it difficult for them to carry things), others - like the sifaka - are conveniently bipedal.
Just to query about the "moveable ears" thing - can lemurs not rotate their ears at all? I often describe my characters as "pricking their ears" but I suppose that's more a concetration thing rather than an anatomical change - I mean you say fellow humans can prick their ears and I can't even twitch mine.
That doesn't justify drawing paws on them. :P
Paws are complicated features, too. It takes a long time to learn how to draw paws-- and, even then, very few artists on the internet draw them even slightly realistically. They are stylized, but they're stylized features that are accurate to the animal/type of animal being represented.
I'm not talking about lemur hands being drawn with realism or accuracy. I'm just talking about lemurs being drawn with hands.
Because hands and feet are literally a requirement for a drawn image to be the depiction of a lemur, considering they are some of the staple features that differentiates them from any other family of animal.
If it has paws, it's another animal, and there's no way around it (especially in the case of a ring-tailed lemur, considering there are hundreds of other animals ALL WITH PAWS that naturally have striped tails.)
You can simplify a paw to just 3 nubs with a circle foe each pawpad, just like how you can simplify a hand to 3 little nubby fingers and a nubby thumb. Even stick figure hands are more accurate on a lemur than a paw-- AND I'M PRETTY SURE STICK FIGURES ARE EASIER TO DRAW THAN PAWS.
--- BUT, I DIGRESS~
I kinda agree on the "species becoming one indetermine critter-blob" thing, haha.
Yet, at the same time...
This ISN'T real life. So, no matter how impossible the hybrids are, they should still be treated as such-- as hybrids.
And if the creature in question is not inherently a hybrid (perhaps, a species that WAS a hybrid, but has bred down through generations and now possesses its own traits) -- then, by definition, that is how a new species is created.
If one was to create a hybrid of a lemur and cat (impossible, but moving on), and then subsequently someone creates a character with lemur markings and cat paws and claims it is a lemur that was once a hybrid... it can't be a lemur, because in order to have produced offspring reliably enough that such a distinct difference would be passed down through the generations, it would have CREATED a new species.
SO BASICALLY
AT THAT POINT, JUST MAKE UP A NEW NAME FOR THE CRITTER, AND YOU'RE GOOD. :B
(OH, and related to quadrupedal lemurs holding things, there are ring-tailed lemurs and others that have been observed carrying things in both hands and walking bipedally! Granted, they are hardly very proficient at it, and stop frequently to regain their balance, but still! Even Sifakas are quite clumsy on their feet, at times!)
And, as for lemurs moving ears!
From what I have observed in most larger lemur species (True Lemurs, Indrids, etc.), the most they are capable of is folding them to "move them to the side". Rather than rotating/pivoting at the base like many other animals, or folding up/down, the folds/grooves along the upper ridge of the ear are where it bends in order to focus its hearing attention either around the animal or in front of the animal. If that makes sense?
So, it's not really akin to how a human's ears can sometimes move (we tend to have super limited mobility with ours) but more like how another primate's would move.
This may not be the case in smaller lemur/prosimian species, however, as their nocturnal ways have them rely more heavily on sound. I am not sure if they pivot on the base, but I have seen them bend them much more, and their use as facial/visual cues are more defined (as their ears are generally hairless and more visible!)
Hope that makes some sense, at least! Sorry I don't know more!!
I saw some footage of ringtails leaping not unlike sifaka, it was quite nifty. I think it was from that new Madagascar: Island of the Lemurs Imax preview. I would love to see that movie, but we dont' have an Imax theatre here...
I used to get really antsy when peopel called hyenas dogs. I mean, really antsy. I grew quite angry at David Attenborough when in one of his BBC docos he said "hyenas, like other dogs...." then I realised that well, not everyone knows much about zoology (although Sir David should!) and I am also a biology-pedant (I insist on informing people that pumpkins, courgettes and capsicum are actually fruit). Still, if you are going to create a character in a particular species - do some research first!
The Hyena thing drives me CRAZY-- especially since they are more closely related to CATS than any dog!
With the fossa, though...
Both Vivverids and Herpestids/Mongoose are feliformes. So, neither is dog branch. I think you are confusing the mongoose family with the mustelids, perhaps? (Mustelids are caniforme!) Vivverids and Herpestids are closely related, so the debate between Euplurids (fossa, other Malagasy mongoose species, etc.) being one or the other makes very little difference -- either way, they are definitively feliforme!
But, yes, quite plantigrade, either way! Which is somewhat unusual among many feliformes, but not all!
I can certainly understand people making a lot of these mistakes. I certainly didn't know the difference between lagomorphs and rodents for a long time. Yet, at the same time, people aren't going to learn these things unless people DO emphasize the importance of it!
In the case of wild animals (hyenas, etc.) I believe it is especially important, as mankind really hasn't been trying to develop our knowledge on them for very long, so now that we ARE I believe accurate information should be taught. I mean, how hard is it to say "Hyenas look like dogs, but are actually related to cats! HOW COOL IS THAT?"
Kids are a lot smarter and more open to assumed-"unexpected" facts than people give them credit for!
With older people, though, there's no excuse. If you're drawing an animal, are you not drawing it because you like it? So, therefore, shouldn't you at least have the decency to google it? It's not a hard concept! Yet, people are too quick to accept visual lies all in the name of being "unique" when, in reality, it's the opposite of creativity. It is pure ignorance.
It is literally showing everyone that the person was so lazy when it came to thinking through their design that they couldn't even put in the time to type the species into a search engine. Because they knew that slapping "lemur" (or other animal) on its species would automatically make the generally-uninformed populace go "OOOHHHH! WHAT A UNIQUE SPECIES! THEY WERE SO CREATIVE FOR THINKING OF IT!" -- But, in reality? Pseudo-"lemur" characters are 5-to-1 more common than ACTUAL lemur characters, because giving a creature a cat body with a striped tail is the EASY solution. It is the EASY answer and, thereby, it is the FIRST thing that comes to mind. Ergo, it's the first thing that comes to hundreds of other peoples' minds and so, when they make that character, it is IMMEDIATELY less original and creative than if they had simply given it hands+feet instead of paws. xD
I think in fossa the plantigrade is due to their arboreal nature - like red panda they can walk headfirst down trees. Are binturong plantigrade? I'm looking at pictures, but it's hard to tell. I think they also climb in a similar fashion.
Hyena don't really look like dogs, they're sort of halfway in facial structure between a dog and cat, which makes them difficult to draw. I have similar problems with lemurs - too long and the muzzles look like foxes, too short and they look like monkeys. Ironic that two of my favourite critters are difficult!
And I've seen all sorts of things labelled "lemur" in particular plushes. There's a ringtailed mongoose up on ebay labelled "ringtailed lemur" and various times I've seen meerkats misclassified as lemurs. Or toys that are clearly monkeys. I have a toy monkey called "Londo Lemur" that more closely resembles a common marmoset in appearance. People forget that there are other animals that have striped tails - and only one lemur species that does.
Not all plantigrade critters are arboreal, but-- yes, this may be the case for the purpose of the Fossa's feet! I believe Binturongs are either plantigrade or semi-plantigrade (as with most lemurs), but I didn't pay too much attention to their feet when I've encountered them. Will have to look more closely, next time!
Whether or not Hyenas look more dog or cat-like is a matter of opinion, though, I think. :P I find them pretty similar to canines (specifically dog breeds like Bull Terriers, etc.) more than canines. Their noses are definitely more dog-like than cat-like. But, that has nothing to do with their actual alignment, haha-- just a matter of surface-level cosmetics. Lemurs are frustratingly difficult in regards to facial shape, though, I agree!! At this point, my fondness for cartoon art styles has overcome my desire for 100% accuracy, so I've relaxed a bit on the precision of such features. :P Still, I try to at least keep them recognizable, which can be pretty difficult a lot of the time!
I actually bought one of that same Ring-Tailed Mongoose plush a long time ago! It was being sold as a lemur, as well, but I knew what it actually was-- and, given my affinity for Euplurids, I just couldn't resist!! The "lemur" tag on eBay (or ANY site, for that matter) is always pretty bad and riddled with mislabeled critters. Meerkats, monkeys, sugar gliders, lorises (at least this one is CLOSE), tarsiers, etc... Gets so old!! And at work, I've had people call lemurs anything from raccoons to BEAVERS. HOW?? GRAAAHHHH.
I've drawn so many lemurs by now, you'd think I could draw them in my sleep!
How many plantigrade animals can we name? Bears (all species), fossa, red panda, racoons, lemur... I'm sure there was something in my Animal Encylopedia that I was surprised to find was plantigrade. Hrm.. Rodents too, apparently? I am drawing a capybara at present, must study the reference images more thoroughly before I ink it... Primates. Armadillo. Anteater....
I'm pretty sure Capybaras are digitigrade, while some other rodents (rats, hamsters, etc.) are plantigrade or semi-plantigrade. All Procyonids are planti, I believe (I know for sure Kinkajous and coatimundi are!)
Pangolins, many/all(?) marsupials, most/all(?) euplurids, aaaand most mustelids (skunks, weasels, otters, etc.)!
THERE ARE A TON.
MOST OF WHICH PEOPLE STILL DRAW AS DIGI. LOL.
I promise you, I shall be drawing plantigrades as plantigrades (although I almost drew a bush dog as a plantigrade too, thanks to the reference image. oops). Capybara definitely look digi in the reference images I found.
Yeh, the Hansa ones. They are gorgeous, but I resist buying so many soft toy lemurs now. I have so many and all they do is gather dust. So saying, I am paying to get a furry sculpture made of my silky simpona, Aurelia.
The thing that show her husky genes really is her blue eyes.
But a wolf/dog hybrid is a bit different, anyway, since they actually exist and, since both animals are of the same genus, the hybrid's genes will show in varying ways/degrees.
Plus, this rant is about many-species hybrids more than anything. :B
Whether or not it's a mix of deer or something else (satyr, demon, or something else that could/would have horns) it still isn't a Red Panda if it has hooves, so keeping another critter as a mix is a good idea. :P
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