I dont think you are wrong for it.
Just my opinion.
Karma.

Shouldnt put others down.
Its not very kind at all...

Makes me sad tbh...

well idk how shes been getting away with it for so long ._. its insane

edited the journal :I its kinda pointless LOL

Wow... I'm pretty sad to hear this. I had a lot of respect for Coffee but it kinda died after this. She's telling people that if it's not that well made, it shouldn't be allowed at all in public. That's like a huge slap in the face for some of us who are still trying to learn how to make these things. I will start learning possibly this week and I know I'm going to suck but who cares!! I WILL TRY AND THAT'S THAT.

Ugh you were in the right for all of this. Such a cruddy situation.

i just cant fathom it tho. She works at her parents gift shop or something, and so her parents buy her suits and dresses n is pretty much handed everything n then she just sticks up her nose n goes UGH INSULTING like EXCUSE THE FUCK OUTTA ME, but thats an extremely shitty attitude to have.

My parents would never help me out with this stuff. I'm still waiting for a suit that cost me a little over $200 total and I know it's not going to be the best but it's what I could afford...

edited the journal :I its kinda pointless LOL

She's not wrong though?

Isn't a "nicely made dress" a requirement for a culture based solely on specifically styled... Nicely made dresses?

Yeah but what about the people who cant afford them? ): (ive tried LOL 200$+ for a dress ) n they just wanted to make their own. N we all know there are....not the BEST hand made things, but its rude to call them insulting ): they just wanna be part of the fandom and be included. just cause they dont have the best talent they shouldnt be shammed. I know the "fandom/fashion" is about helping others, my friend is in it, and its also about sharing tips on making the dresses n accessories. not about shaming them for not making the prettiest thing

Part of it, being a lolita takes alot more then a dress tho. There and rules any everything from what I have read.

oh no! im not denying there arent rules, i know there are categories too, Gothic n sweet n stuff. i just dont like it when their efforts are called insulting ): you know? everyone should be included if they do thier best to follow the rules, even tho their dress might not be the nicest

Efforts?

Literally the only point she made was "random clothes" aren't Lolita.

I don't want to insult you but you're sorta the only person bringing up amateur costume designers....

i didnt get all of it ): but it did get into dresses, bc then she mentions that she cant afford 200$ dresses either. We did cover that part too. but it strayed VERY quickly to her just attacking me with examples that wernt even remotely close to a fandom (cops, president, cheerleaders. actors) thats mainly the reason why im pissed, and the "insulting" bit.

edited the journal :I its kinda pointless LOL

She's partially right only most fandoms allow for a lot of leeway for folks who either don't have a ton of money OR a ton of experience. Fun should trump quality. ANYone can be a cheerleader. Sure you may not make the tryouts for a professional squad but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be allowed to wave pompoms around & support your favorite team.

Im gonna go to bed <3 sorry for late replys

At the risk of sounding like a "white knight" even though I don't know this person, I have to kind of agree with the person in question. Being a lolita myself, I understand her point of view. Don't get me wrong, I could never afford brand or even fit into it for that matter but in the fashion, there are certain rules that separate lolita from cosplay. there is nothing wrong with cosplaying and there's nothing wrong with lolita but you can't expect to be taken seriously by a "lifestyle lolita" or not to be ridiculed by them. To them, it feels like you're making fun of their way of life. Of course, she did kind of go about it poorly and I can understand you having a problem with it. Definitely understand that.

Anyway, you may want to be careful with this particular journal, it could be seen as harassment. But just wanted to say that I can see why she's acting this way (sort of) and I'm hoping that I explained this well enough that you do not feel offended and can understand her "argument" for lack of a better word.

And of course, with any fandom/fashion, you have snobs but you kinda just have to pick your battles with those folks. It's not really worth the effort. I'm still learning myself and I have a mentor that helps me decide what's good and what's bad as far as my selection of clothing. There are lots of helpful links that can help with making your choices look more along the lines of the fashion rules but at the end of the day it's about what makes you feel pretty and happy and you can't let anyone tell you otherwise.

exactly ^^ but to be honest, the main reason i was ticked was how fast she just moved to attacking me with "Examples" but they wernt remotely close to a fandom (cop. president. actor, cheerleader) n she was just treating me like an idiot. i dont like people talking down to me, especially with her kind of mentality. if it was left at "random clothes" ok, like not my issue, but just the way she was dealing with it -.- like no thanks LOL

edited the journal :I its kinda pointless LOL

I don't see how anything anyone else does could be 'insulting' to a fandom (unless what they're doing is being a shitty person) - Just because someone can't afford the nicest clothes, doesn't have EXACTLY the same style as someone else, or hasn't quite gotten the hang of their craft yet, doesn't mean you have to take it personally. And that's what she seems to be doing, and something you seem to think is okay.

It's personal when you tell someone that they should be ashamed of what they CAN do. It's personal that you tell someone that their efforts are 'insulting'. I think that's the point Ellie is trying to make - it's just shitty as a person to tell someone else that their efforts are a point of shame, when they are genuinely trying their very best.

If someone doesn't have the best costuming skills, you don't have to make fun of them for it. And honestly, it in no way directly effects your own life.

Journal is edited now :O

And like I said in my other comment, there are snobs but I am not entirely sure you read both of my comments. Just because I understand someone's point of view does not mean I agree with it. All professionals were once beginners and I try and remember that before I judge ANYONE. Please make sure you understand my full argument before ridiculing my statements.

I actually didn't because they hadn't been posted by the time I wrote that. I'm not going to apologize because hey, I did nothing wrong in that case. You should maybe try to be clearer the first time around next time.

Luckily my explanation was not for you. I do not need an apology from you. I have spoken my peace.

Also, if you check the time stamp, I actually did. Have a nice day.

I think you both have good points but are also both wrong in some ways too, and while she was being immature you were being equally immature by continuing on with the discussion once it became clear that this person wasn't going to see your point, and was instead going to start spouting a bunch of hyperbole. You say you don't like drama but by continuing to post journals about it you're dragging it out.

If the two of you are going to keep acting like a bunch of stereotypical high school kids then don't be surprised when the drama turns into a tsunami because there are plenty of bystanders who just love when stuff like this happens so they can pick sides, and stir shit just for lulz. I suggest ditching the journals, blocking them, and moving on to more positive pursuits.

oh LOL yeah, i know. i think i might, but at least alot of people are seeing my side which was good i was a bit nervous on that. i just didnt wanna reply to 15+ notes -.-

This fur has a point. No sense in dragging the drama on.

yeah i just edited it xD

I see. Glad I stumbled upon you though, even if it was through a bunch of drama. I love your art.

I've been watching Coffee for some time. Back when here art was just a bunch of sketches. Not to long ago she started ranting about getting harassed, but never gave much detail into it. Glad to see a little more into it. Her rants always seemed a little snobby, and after seeing you two in her journal and then this journal, only makes it worse on her side.

Can't believe she'd go around being a snob like that then complain when lonesome talks back to her for what she's doing.

lol thanks ^^' i know she didnt LOL

This has really made me feel kinda sad. I know there have been some terrible suits in the furry fandom, but who's to say that they aren't a part of a fandom until they have a suit over a certain price? I know everyone has their opinions, but some need to learn to keep it to themselves. I don't really know this 'Coffee' character well, but I have seen here pictures here and there and seen her rant about a fursuit on YouTube. And this Lolita thing, it's just a fandom too. Why does a fandom need rules? I've looked at getting a Lolita dress before for plus sized girls, yet I've never been told there were 'rules' I had to follow. Why can't someone just enjoy their pretty dress? I understand that some people want things a certain way, but don't make others feel bad if it's not YOUR way. I stand by you Ellie, I think you did a very nice thing by standing up for others.

well idk if i completely stood up for them, i tried xD but i dont think the art helped, that was just for me.

Thanks tho (:

The art was pretty funny. :P

I think Ellie had the best intentions it's just you know how that can go.

I think it was a classy act Ellie.

Though I'm old fashion on things.... WTF does Lolita stand for now?

Last time I looked it stood for prepubescent girls... Not fashion. Prepubescent girls aka JAILBAIT!

It's where the term loli and lolicon come from. It's the name of a russian novel about a guy dating a prepubescent girl. Later adapted into a movie by the late Stanley Kubrick.

So excuse my old fashion definition. But it sounds like someones more bitching about who looks more like a prepubescent girl in a costume...

Yeah that one made me raise an eyebrow lol

Lolita is a fashion out of Japan (I'm pretty sure) that consists of dressing in frilly, very girly dresses or rather dark 'gothic' style dresses, and I think there is even a Victorian style in there someplace. It's basically wanting to look similar to a doll from what I understand, or a vampire, or just Victoria ear I guess. I'm used to seeing the 'sweet' Lolita that are very frilly, girly, and look like they could give you a cavity, so Yeah, they basically fit that description of wanting to look like an little girl with big curly wigs on and very 'dolly' like.

Should have figured... And should have known the term being a former otaku and all that years ago before being an Otaku became hip...

I love the smell of furry drama in the 'morning'.

I had a feeling I knew who this was about and comments prove me right :3 Sounds like Coffee needs some decaf *vigorous jazz hands* I'll go away now ;_;

vigorously? .-.

As long as I find out how to... Yes.

LOL god speed man