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*sigh* sexists in the fandom
11 years ago
General
(NOTE: I am NOT complaining about *all men*. There's tons of wonderful men in my life, and the men I call my friends? well I don't make friends with sexists so you're cool w/ me. Aki that means you too, this isn't directed at you :P)
I'm just about going to rage-quit every furry forum I'm a part of because these misogynistic men keep showing up and dominating conversations about women and female issues. Remember that kid who went out and killed people after writing like a 100+ page dissertation on how much he hated women and was going to slaughter them because they wouldn't touch his dick? Both threads about that on the FA forums and Weasyl forums were *full* of dudes who for some reason felt like that topic was a good place to complain about women, feminists, tumblr social-justice-warriors--while making excuses for MRAs and anti-female hate groups. LIKE WTF GUYS. And every. thread. about feminist issues turns into a feminist hate-fest and people calling teenage girls skanky/slutty if they wear short shorts and insulting specific women and bullshit like that. I added so many people to my "ignore" list on FAF after one particularly bad thread now I can't see what half the forum posts (good riddance tho'. FAF is kinda known for attracting trolls and assholes).
Like, for the most part IRL my interactions with furry men are just fine. I've been on the recieving end of some creepy romantic overtures from straight male furs, and "eww-girls-are-gross" immature behavior from gay male furs, but mostly the men are all right. The creepiest dudes are pretty easy to avoid 'cause you can see 'em coming from a mile away, or they don't speak and just sit around in conrners wearing ratty fursuits w/o the head and leering at everybody.
But goddamn the worst of the worst come out on the internet, holy shit.
I'm glad that there are so many awesome furry ladies out there, especially artists and fursuiters. I feel really comfortable around fellow female furs even if they're strangers, whereas with men I have to get to know them first before I can feel comfortable.
Let's keep improving conditions in the furry fandom so more women will keep showing up! maybe instead of 80/20 male/female we can reach more like 50/50 :3
Anyway, anyone have stories of fandom misogyny to share? Or stories of particularly awesome men who stick up for women when everyone else is being sexist? (Pinardilla comes to mind ... https://www.weasyl.com/~pinardilla )
I'm just about going to rage-quit every furry forum I'm a part of because these misogynistic men keep showing up and dominating conversations about women and female issues. Remember that kid who went out and killed people after writing like a 100+ page dissertation on how much he hated women and was going to slaughter them because they wouldn't touch his dick? Both threads about that on the FA forums and Weasyl forums were *full* of dudes who for some reason felt like that topic was a good place to complain about women, feminists, tumblr social-justice-warriors--while making excuses for MRAs and anti-female hate groups. LIKE WTF GUYS. And every. thread. about feminist issues turns into a feminist hate-fest and people calling teenage girls skanky/slutty if they wear short shorts and insulting specific women and bullshit like that. I added so many people to my "ignore" list on FAF after one particularly bad thread now I can't see what half the forum posts (good riddance tho'. FAF is kinda known for attracting trolls and assholes).
Like, for the most part IRL my interactions with furry men are just fine. I've been on the recieving end of some creepy romantic overtures from straight male furs, and "eww-girls-are-gross" immature behavior from gay male furs, but mostly the men are all right. The creepiest dudes are pretty easy to avoid 'cause you can see 'em coming from a mile away, or they don't speak and just sit around in conrners wearing ratty fursuits w/o the head and leering at everybody.
But goddamn the worst of the worst come out on the internet, holy shit.
I'm glad that there are so many awesome furry ladies out there, especially artists and fursuiters. I feel really comfortable around fellow female furs even if they're strangers, whereas with men I have to get to know them first before I can feel comfortable.
Let's keep improving conditions in the furry fandom so more women will keep showing up! maybe instead of 80/20 male/female we can reach more like 50/50 :3
Anyway, anyone have stories of fandom misogyny to share? Or stories of particularly awesome men who stick up for women when everyone else is being sexist? (Pinardilla comes to mind ... https://www.weasyl.com/~pinardilla )
at least in my personal experience, female con attendence has been increasing since I started on the con scene in 2007, so hopefully the trend continues!
Good on you. I am a boy and view men almost in the same regard because of the amount of bad interactions I've had... and the people who approached me with it expecting me to agree with them
they make it worse for everyone
http://comicsalliance.com/san-diego.....-city-comicon/
http://jezebel.com/lessons-from-a-d.....l-f-1582884301
I've seen people post some serious misogynistic garbage on this website, I've even heard people spouting this kind of fucking bullshit in real life, and it makes me a little sicker every day.
It shouldn't be such a radical notion that women are people!
I'm always kinda sad when people say to me stuff like, you're overreacting, or, you're too militant... when they just don't understand what's out there. Like, maybe they don't experience sexism or see it in their community, and if that's true that's super great and I'm happy for them. But that doesn't mean it doesn't exist just 'cause they don't see it!!
So I'm gonna go ahead and keep being a super militant feminist, because if I can just share what I now know, it might make a difference to someone someday... and hell, feminism is the only thing that keeps me sane sometimes in this culture!
To me when people say that it's like a straight person saying "I don't know what you're complaining about, *I've* never experienced homophobia!"
Well no. You haven't. :P
Keep on fighting the good fight and don't let militant apathy, minimization and dismissal get you down.
To every action there's an equal and opposite reaction, and what goes up must come down.
http://adjectivespecies.com/2014/06.....y-conventions/
They have a whole section on women in the fandom, and long story short, the women at FF 2014 reported that they've encountered sexism in the fandom, and often feel like outsiders.
The only place I've encountered various -isms so far is FAF--otherwise, so far, I've tended to feel quite safe in furry circles, and I've only been semi-creeped on once (so far).
I'm sorry you and others have had bad experiences. Seems like there's no safe harbor sometimes, eh?
I mean, it's probably a broader cultural thing--most women I know have experienced significant sexism in their day-to-day lives, including sexual abuse, assault, and rape. (I've experienced coercive sexual abuse and it's awful.) So you can't just escape the rampant sexism of America by fleeing to a sub-culture. The men who are furry are going to carry some of what they grew up with into furry w/ them; you can't get around that.
But, like, furry is supposed to be such a welcoming, open community! we can, and should, do better. we can always improve ourselves.
IRL furry gatherings are *generally* a safe space for me, too. I just wish the furry internet was the same way.
I think a lot of the people who seem normal enough in person are total creeps on the internet because they can hide behind a username and/or an avatar. That's kinda why I figure the ration of males to females in the furry fandom is the way it is, because right now the furry fandom exists primarily on the internet, and most girls I would guess don't like talking to strangers on the internet because chances are it's a lonely hateful guy who thinks he can get away with blatant hate speech by claiming he's joking or labeling himself a "troll"
I think women are also less likely to go to conventions alone than men are, due to safety and harrassment concerns... I know that I wouldn't go to a US con if I didn't have IRL friends going, too.
I never understood why anonymity can turn some people into arseholes so fast. I like anonymity so that I can be furry openly without worrying about what potential employers would think, etc., and I might feel more free to swear in type than speech, ut otherwise I like to think I'm the same sort of person online as off...
I just hate finding out that normally cool people have opinions about such important stuff that I really don't agree with. It colors how I see them forever afterwards and stuff is never the same. So I just stay out of it.
I feel you about the FA forums tho. I actually started out there, before I made an FA because I didn't know how FA worked or how to be social with it, my experience was almost strictly with forums, but once I hightailed it out of there I never went back.
I've luckily never felt any sort of sexism from anyone in the fandom at the few cons I've been to (hard to believe to date it's only been two!) I've had 1 or 2 guys get a little bit more playful than I'd like while I was in suit, and a few less then PG comments, probably because of my headmasks 'suggestive eyelids' but I'd either figure out how to get out of the situation myself, ignore it, or my friend was there and I made no effort whatsoever to inform them that he wasn't my boyfriend. Always good to have wingfurs. ;D
And to be perfectly honest, I feel a lot safer in this fandom than I did in the cosplay fandom, where guys were constantly asking for pictures and then pressing me to their bodies, saying I looked hot, doing suggestive poses without my consent, and just basically openly leering at my body. I am SO happy I've escaped that vortex of the scum of humanity. Just in time, to me, it seems, with all the cosplay does not equal consent stuff going around.
luckily for me, my realistic sloth suit gets less gropey attention than other kinds of suits. since I move in slow motion, people generally respect my boundaries and hug me in slow motion, too, which puts me more at ease. I've been scritched by creeps before out of suit, but nothing serious. Ask before you touch, ppl, it's not that hard of a concept to grasp!!
well if you ever want a feminist shoulder to lean on, I'm here ^-^*
Lol I can definitely see how that would help! I'll hug you in slow motion too rofl. Even at anime cons I go to now in my suit I get a certain level of respect and/or people who don't like it, stay away from me. They always ask to hug me, ask to pet my head, ask to take a picture. I don't know what it is that makes them suddenly respect my boundaries more when I'm in a fuzzy animal suit as opposed to my normal human skin, but whatever, I don't really care as long as they DO give me that respect!
I don't think I've ever discussed all those feminine issues with anyone who didn't adamantly agree with me and didn't think it was common sense that it will NEVER be the woman's fault. If i ever did talk in person to people who think it is (the woman's fault), I can tell you right now there'd be a very explosive reaction on my part and the end of any sort of friendship/acquaintanceship I had with them.
It also scares me a bit how this male attention is actually getting more pronounced? If that makes sense? Basically, I was and am not very boy crazy, I never really noticed looks or stares when I was out and about while I was in college. But in the past two years, I have been actively cat-called at, stared at, ogled, and whistled at on several occasions. Mind you, I almost NEVER wear makeup, and I don't really wear flattering clothes, I favor comfort over fashion. And this all would happen normally, while I was out and about minding my own damn business. It scares the shit out of me. I feel like all this attention we're giving to the issue may only be making it worse, or making men bolder, because nothing is ever really done about it, even when the women speak out. I shouldn't be frightened to walk down the street!!
I don't experience a lot of catcalling myself--probably because I'm pretty butch, so people read me as male until they see my boobs or hear me speak. A lot of catcalling is done from behind, iirc. One time a drunk man thought I was my sister's brother or son? o.O
but you're damn right that no one should ever have to fear for their safety by just walking down the street!!
Not perfect, certainly, but maybe better in some regards.
One time, some people in a forum I browse were lamenting how women are creeped on, harassed, and objectified at comic cons, and then some of the same people later got into a mini-circle-sneer around furries. Your loss, fucktards!
Basically, we're people that make choices. Sometimes, those choices are harmful, like if we let someone else's demeaning comment slide without our own comment to the contrary (or, even make those kinds of comments -- and we really can't use "that's how I was raised" as an excuse). Sometimes, those choices are helpful, like if we speak up. And when we slip up (not if, but when, because we are fallible as folks who have grown up in a patriarchal system), we work hard to make up for that, be it external or internal, and not repeat the offense in the future.
[Within discussions of racism, there are the terms "pro-racist" or "anti-racist" to replace "racist" and "not racist": we've grown up in a world with a lot of even-subtly-racist ideals, and so we may even spout some of that racism ourselves -- but it's an issue of accepting it or working against it. And even then, it's not a binary since there are folks who let slide some aspects of racism while disallowing others. In either way, though, I'm starting to think the terms "pro-sexist" or "anti-sexist" might be similarly useful.]
Basically, as dudes, we do have male privileges: we have the advantage that we don't have to worry about certain things that women do in their everyday lives. One example (from a whole lot of examples) would be that we aren't as affected by misogynist comments that do have a much greater effect on women than they do men. It's a matter of identifying to what extent we have those privileges, and identifying what we can do to level the playing field, so to speak, so that we work toward reducing the worries that, really, no one should need to have.
I can have my weird moments around people, but I still know how to show respect.
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/5803605/
My rant is more focused on the internet than IRL at cons, but! we have to remember that cons aren't all unicorns and rainbows, either.
THANK YOU