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Patreon: So Im one of those artists now. Please hear me out.
11 years ago
▿ Support My Patreon!▿ - 
High-Res Files on Itchio!
💜 Thank you all of those who give their support. 💜
http://www.patreon.com/ultraviolet
Yes, I'm now amongst the artists which have set up a Patreon. I hope you will hear me out. ^-^;
I'm both very nervous and excited by trying this. Originally I wasn't going to do one, but then I realized some of the potential of having one (assuming people do back me there). :3
Like many other artists here on FA, my art and illustration is how I make my living. Perhaps its not some lucrative job, where I'm rolling in money, (not by a long shot!) but it helps me keep a roof on my head, food in my tummy, and bills paid. :3 And while I really love working as an artist, it can be really back breaking and surprisingly exhausting work. There's just no way around it. Because of art being my job, I have to constantly work away at commissions. Don't get me wrong I enjoy commission work, I love working with all of you, you are amazing <3 and I love the challenges it provides! However, because I have to put so much time and focus into commission work, I just don't have any time for anything else, especially my own ideas or creativity. Sooo many big projects I would love to reward fans with but I just don't have the chance to, because of having to go from commission to commission. There's so much personal stuff, like doing art and world development of Shi'Imora, that just never happens because of this.
http://www.patreon.com/ultraviolet
So this is why I started a Patreon.
Even just a little support from generous fans, will help me to take on less commission work, thus giving me more time/compensation for all the creatures, worlds, ideas going on in my head. I really hope this will give me a chance to better develop ShiImora, my characters, and all the many ideas and projects that have been locked up in my mind with no where to go.
Also, this doesn't mean I will stop sharing content publicly. On the contrary. I will still be sharing plenty of art and content, it may even mean a surge of more content, as I'm allowed to explore my own ideas more :) Of course, aside from the patron perks like high res files etc, there will be, some content that is exclusive to my Patreon, but there will likely still be plenty of web-sized content shared here as well. :3
If you read this far, thank you for your interest, and for being willing to listen to me and why I wish to go this route.
Thank you all so much for your support, rather you back me there, or simply remain as a watcher here on FA! I love all of you! :3
Humbly Yours'
UV
http://www.patreon.com/ultraviolet
What are some of the things you can get for backing me on Patreon?
* You can vote on what I draw, themes, species situations etc.
* Voting on character designs and creation.
* Have input on the world building of Shi-Imora
* Access to sketches, WIPs and conceptual drafts.
* Access to all high resolution files and Patreon exclusive content.
* Entry into a bi-monthly raffle for a sketch commission.
* Entry into a monthly raffle for a limited edition, signed print of your choosing to be mailed to you.
* First access to any open commission slots or limited-run orders.
* Entry into a bi-monthly monthly raffle for a cell-shaded colour badge.
* Chance for your character to be chosen to be used in my projects.
* 25% discount off of one future commission.
Yes, I'm now amongst the artists which have set up a Patreon. I hope you will hear me out. ^-^;
I'm both very nervous and excited by trying this. Originally I wasn't going to do one, but then I realized some of the potential of having one (assuming people do back me there). :3
Like many other artists here on FA, my art and illustration is how I make my living. Perhaps its not some lucrative job, where I'm rolling in money, (not by a long shot!) but it helps me keep a roof on my head, food in my tummy, and bills paid. :3 And while I really love working as an artist, it can be really back breaking and surprisingly exhausting work. There's just no way around it. Because of art being my job, I have to constantly work away at commissions. Don't get me wrong I enjoy commission work, I love working with all of you, you are amazing <3 and I love the challenges it provides! However, because I have to put so much time and focus into commission work, I just don't have any time for anything else, especially my own ideas or creativity. Sooo many big projects I would love to reward fans with but I just don't have the chance to, because of having to go from commission to commission. There's so much personal stuff, like doing art and world development of Shi'Imora, that just never happens because of this.
http://www.patreon.com/ultraviolet
So this is why I started a Patreon.
Even just a little support from generous fans, will help me to take on less commission work, thus giving me more time/compensation for all the creatures, worlds, ideas going on in my head. I really hope this will give me a chance to better develop ShiImora, my characters, and all the many ideas and projects that have been locked up in my mind with no where to go.
Also, this doesn't mean I will stop sharing content publicly. On the contrary. I will still be sharing plenty of art and content, it may even mean a surge of more content, as I'm allowed to explore my own ideas more :) Of course, aside from the patron perks like high res files etc, there will be, some content that is exclusive to my Patreon, but there will likely still be plenty of web-sized content shared here as well. :3
If you read this far, thank you for your interest, and for being willing to listen to me and why I wish to go this route.
Thank you all so much for your support, rather you back me there, or simply remain as a watcher here on FA! I love all of you! :3
Humbly Yours'
UV
http://www.patreon.com/ultraviolet
What are some of the things you can get for backing me on Patreon?
* You can vote on what I draw, themes, species situations etc.
* Voting on character designs and creation.
* Have input on the world building of Shi-Imora
* Access to sketches, WIPs and conceptual drafts.
* Access to all high resolution files and Patreon exclusive content.
* Entry into a bi-monthly raffle for a sketch commission.
* Entry into a monthly raffle for a limited edition, signed print of your choosing to be mailed to you.
* First access to any open commission slots or limited-run orders.
* Entry into a bi-monthly monthly raffle for a cell-shaded colour badge.
* Chance for your character to be chosen to be used in my projects.
* 25% discount off of one future commission.
Sorry, I'm not taking commissions at this time.
1. A small amount per month/per piece may not be unreasonable but... I follow/watch a LOT of artists. Yes, $5 a month is no problem, but spread that out to the 300 or so artists I watch and that is just not going to happen. Now... how to I pick and choose which ones I support and which ones I don't? The reality is that if everyone went to Patreon, I would be forced to pick and choose and a LOT of artists would lose me as a follower. And I suspect that my situation is not unique, so I think artists would lose a LOT of their followers.
2. With the artists who are pay-per-month, the temptation is going to be there to slack off. Maybe they only post a couple art pieces instead of several. They will make it up in the future, right?
3, It diminishes the whole fandom. Particularly now that I'm starting to see Patreon only streams and such. That just means less participation by the vast majority of furries out there, so then you end up with an even smaller base of people who might be interested in joining your Patreon.
4. The fandom was largely built on the commission model. So... would you rather get $60 for a commission, or a few dollars from some patrons? Unless you're a super-popular artist, the commission income is going to be better, and commissions are a MUCH better way to get your art and brand out there than closed Patreon work.
So, that is why I don't like it. No, I'm not going to unwatch an artist that has a Patreon account. And I'm not going to berate them for trying it. I'm just not likely to participate is all, and that kind of defeats the point, right? Now, if anyone wants to debate the issue, or point out why my reasoning is wrong - go for it, but let's not turn this into a drama filled debate plz!
2. I personally wouldn't slack off.. but that's why I currently choose to go for per finished illustration. I am admitably slow to create as I want to create my best, not churn stuff out, and I would prefer it be on a less frequent basis and fee like they get their moneys worth as far as putting all I can into a piece.
3. not sure i have any further input on that point ^^
4. I have no intention of fully stopping commissions.. I hope to eventually find a balance between both :)
1. No, I have no intention of unwatching an artist just because they have a Patreon. I know some people talk about being that spiteful... I am not. I watch an artist because I like the art they share, or because I know them personally (or both). I unwatch artists when I no longer enjoy their art but honestly... it takes me a long, long time to get there because I keep hoping they will change, you know? It takes me a long time to decide to watch someone because of their art, and an equally long (and agonizing time) to decide to unwatch. Unless they stop posting art, it doesn't bother me if they have a Patreon.
2. I'm sorry - I didn't mean to imply *you* personally would. I'm just saying, as a commissioner, it's something I do worry about. Like with timed commissions. Now if I know and trust the artist, then it's never a problem. But I only know a small fraction of the artists I watch... I do worry about systems where there is a strong attraction for (or financial motivation toward) ... trouble.
4. I like the commission model myself. I think it works, artists can set their prices and everyone can see the work they do. If people want to see ___, then they can go commission someone to draw it for them or wait for someone else to do the same. I'm not saying the system is perfect, with a wide spread in pricing - as I'm sure you know. But it has been working for a long time.
And I do appreciate your taking the time to discuss it. I'm not trying to discourage any artist from trying it out, because I do get that it's hard to make a living on furry art. I do worry about what will happen to the fandom if Patreon were to really take off and most artists (certainly all the good artists) just became Patreon-only.
1. I love many of the artists I watch on FA but I don't support every single one who has a Patreon account because not all of them are worth it to me. I simply continue to enjoy their FA art and not send them money. Easy. No need to stop following them. Sure, they don't get my money monthly, but I will still favorite and possibly commission, if possible.
2. That is purely on the artist and not the website. If an artist slacks, you can cancel your pledges and choose not to support them anymore.
3. Again, that's on the artist. I offer Patreon exclusive streams, but only when I'm working on Patreon exclusive art. I will still offer normal streams for my normal art. I think it's silly to choose not to support someone on Patreon simply because they offer exclusive streams.
4. Patreon brings in regular clients. It's generally stable and it makes it easy to collect commission information. So far, I greatly prefer it over normal commission procedures. Also, there's no rule saying you can't do commissions AND have a Patreon account. Many artists already make a lot of money off of pay-sites, magazines and folios, all of which are private works.
Patreon is based on donations. You give the artist money to support them while getting little in return. Furries have taken it as an opportunity to use it as a paysite, or somewhere in the middle ground like me, and that's totally okay. Your concerns can apply to some artists, but Patreon isn't problematic in that case. The artist is.
1. I never said I would stop following them. My point is that while each artist says "Support me, it's only a few dollars" - when you multiply that across all the good artists I follow, that's a lot of money. That's my point. It's not a matter of telling a specific artist "you're not worth it", it's a matter of the fact that I have followed artists because of the work that they post. And what if they seriously slow down or even stop posting "free" art? And why not if they can get paid for it at Patreon? That's what I worry about.
2. I put some of the blame on the web site because they are setting up the system where there is a temptation to slack. Yes, it is ultimately up to the artist if they slack. The problem with $/month commitments is... how can the patrons tell if the artist is slacking? Some of the pledge levels I've seen are just generic "get access to ___". Well, is that one picture a month, a dozen? My point being, if I commission a picture, I know exactly what I'm getting. Some of the pledge levels artists have... who knows.
3. I wasn't directing this at you. Again, I think the temptation is there for "why do a free stream when I can get 'paid' for it through Patreon".
4. I don't know how commissions work through Patreon, but I know commissions through e-mail, FA notes, etc. have been working fine for a long, long time. And the difference I see between a "pay site" and Patreon is that for a pay site, generally the contributors know and can expect a certain level of production from the artists. Patreon allows artists to set up something vague enough nobody knows what they should be getting.
And that's the problem. Patreon is not a "donation" site. It's a pay site disguised as "donations". If they really were donations, the content would still be freely available, even to non patrons. Furaffinity is a donation site.
I hope you didn't take any of my comments as specific to you or your Patreon, just because I replied to your comment. Nothing I said was aimed specifically at you. I just thought it would be an opportunity to explain the problems I have with Patreon. I'm not going to unwatch any artist that goes there. I'm not going to suggest that artists don't go there, or berate them if they do. It's your art, you should do with it what you want. I was simply airing my thoughs because the question came up about how people feel about Patreon. I personally think it's going to be bad for the fandom in the long run. I am not opposed to artists trying to monetize their skill, but I don't think Patreon is a good way to go about it is all.
2. There is absolute zero blame on the website because they never told furry artists to use it as an exclusive platform. They specifically say that it is for supporting the -free- content that artists are already creating and sharing with their fans. Smooth McGroove is the perfect example of what Patreon is supposed to be. He creates acapella covers of video game music. If you pledge money to him, you get perks that he did not previously offer, and he releases his songs for free, to everyone. He's doing exactly what he did before, only getting money for it, and adding a couple cool things like Skype chats, just for an extra incentive. Furries just found a way to exploit Patreon, is all. It was designed purely for supporting with getting little to nothing in return. Patreon IS a donation site, but furries are using it as a paysite.
I'm not offended by your comments, I'm just trying to get you to see that you're letting your fears cloud something that had really great intentions. It sucks for the creators who spend a lot of time ensuring that their Patreon accounts are fair, clear and updated properly when there are people who just say "This can be abused so I'm not going to give it a chance". If it doesn't interest you, that's fine, but to call it a paysite when there are a ton of things on their site explaining how it's meant to be used saying the opposite, is unfair to the website. People can read your comments and not choose to look for themselves, and write it off as a paysite when really, some artists are using it just how it should be. Yes, some artists have taken advantage of it, and some will absolutely abuse it, but it's not the website's fault. Cars are meant for driving, not running people over, but sometimes you get a driver who prefers the latter use over the former. That's not the car company's fault.
2. I don't know all the history and background, but like you point out - furries are using it as a pay site, yes, no matter the site's intention. If people are offering "value added" perks like Skype chats, WIP sketches, etc. that's fine with me as I don't think that detracts from the fandom. But some/many seem to be using it as a simple pay site. Only with a pay site, you know you'll get X pieces of art a month. Patreon allows accounts with a fixed per-month cost, but no guarantee of any actual art. And yes, people will stop paying if they get no art, but the contributors are still out a month or two of contributions. And that is going to hurt everyone.
You make a valid point about scaring people off the site, and I would hope that everyone would go see what their favorite artists are doing at Patreon before passing judgment. I know I've gone to look each time. I'm not saying some artists aren't putting a lot of time into it and adding a lot of content. The fandom was built on the "free art to advertise and then bring in commission work to sustain" model. Many artists can sustain themselves with commission work because the fandom has so many people, and that is because of all the "free" art. Take that away, and you ARE going to take away from the fandom. And when I say "free" art, remember that a lot of it has actually been paid for as a commission.
I don't think I am letting my fears cloud my judgment about the site. I am really conflicted to begin with because I DO sympathize with artists who are trying to figure out how to monetize their skill and talent, and that's not an easy thing to do. I'm not saying it can be abused so don't give it a chance. I am saying that it is fragmenting the fandom because it's forcing people like me to decide whose art I want to see and whose art I don't. Which artists I want to interact with and which ones I don't. And I do not see that as a change for the better. That's all I'm saying.
I will probably never go to patreon and I'd be a little sad if many artists I watch only do art for patreon cause it seems 'easier'.
I think there is a similar temptation with "flat fee" Patreon accounts too. Like you said, "I'll post double next month". Compounded by the fact that some of the flat fee pledge levels I have see some put up, had no specific mention of quantity so who's to know if a patron is getting what they paid for or not, right?
As Ajna pointed out, it does come down to the artist choosing to abuse/use the system or not. My problem is when a system gets set up that provides the temptation because we're all just human after all. As Ajna pointed out, everyone should at least see what an artist has set up and make their own decision as to whether it is "worth it" or not. Some artists have put a lot of work into their Patreon accounts, and I'm not trying to say anything to take that away from them.
I'm just trying to explain my, hopefully rational, reasons for disliking the way many are using Patreon, instead of the "I'm unwatching you because you have a Patreon" argument that has been flying around for a while now.
Also, I will still be posting work to FA, so I wont be disappearing off to Patreon by any means. :3
Patrons just get the perks that go with support as well as the full resolution files (and some of them, prints) of the work that is posted here.
Either way though, even if you decide not to, I wish you the best of luck with the new job ^_^
And well Its a little different depending on the creator or content. Many have it set up to receive backings/donations on a monthly or weekly basis. However for me, Im kind of slow with putting out work at the moment, so I dont think it would be fair, so instead I set it up that i will get the donations/payments per finished illustration. So when I have a finished illustration (maybe one per month, though knowing me it will average one every two months XD) I post there, it will then charge those who donated.
So if you donated $2, When I post a finished piece, you will be charged for $2. :3
There are also different rewards and content depending how much a person donates individually.
Additionally I also have milestone goals, which for me is based on the total amount donated per illustration (totalled from the amount all the donators are giving, together) together. For example 45 total per piece would mean posting and sharing images there as a pencil drawing. At the next total mile stone you would have color sketches.. then full pained pin ups, etc etc,
I,.. hope this makes some sense, admitably I'm not great at explaining things at times XD
But, if you have further questions, feel free to ask I'll answer to the best of my ability :3
Instead of taking a commision.. people pay to see personal art drawn by you?
So say 45 people donate 2$... you then move up to flats? So on and so on?
Without actually receiving any art at all, just look?
So you have it set up where people pay per finished piece, they vote on things theu want to see, and you get to expand your art.
Am I getting this right?
All of the random love! :P
And it can vary with each person since its customizable. but I have mine on basis of a finished illustration (according to the milestones) as I dont think i work fast enough to constitute monthly or weekly payments. I work fairly slowly so I feel like people wouldn't get much for their money if it was monthly, or weekly (hell i feel "fast" if i produce one full illustration a month)
As for you backing me, I am deeply honoured and incredibly grateful ;u; *hugs humbly*
There should be stuff there already for you to view :3 And currently working on one of the first pieces for it :3
1. Is it legal? Yes, it is.
2. Is it immoral? No, it's not.
Don't like it? Don't use it.
(my excuses, let me show you them)