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Update #2 On The Incident At Inn N Out
11 years ago
📼 𝐇𝐄𝐌𝐌𝐒𝐅𝐎𝐗 𝐒𝐓𝐔𝐃𝐈𝐎𝐒 📼
📼 𝐇𝐄𝐌𝐌𝐒𝐅𝐎𝐗 𝐒𝐓𝐔𝐃𝐈𝐎𝐒 📼
𝐒𝐓𝐔𝐃𝐈𝐎 𝐔𝐏𝐃𝐀𝐓𝐄
update #2
Yesterday I made a trip up to the PS area and drove all over Trask, Brookhurst, Magnolia, and Garden Grove Blvd to look for a possible new venue for a mid-party trip. I'm sorry to say that the results were not very fruitful. The PS is in a heavily residential area, and In N Out is the only eatery within walking distance (or rather fursuited walking distance) that serves food, and is not a sit down restaurant, and ALSO has space to accommodate a large number of people and suiters. To get to a plaza with a plethera of choices we would have to walk a mile down Trask all the way to Brookhurst and then some, and still, with the exception of a Starbucks, there is no where with plenty of seating. That said Starbucks is all indoors.
Close to the corner of Trask and Brookhurst is a place called Rainbow Donuts . It's open 24 hours, and has SOME seating but not a lot. It is also a really far walk, and the person working the place did not seem too friendly.
Walking Distance
HOWEVER though I said there no restaurants I did find one place that is PERHAPS suitable. It is a place called Boba Loca , a smoothie place in the Korean part of town, and it is right at the corner of Gilbert and Garden Grove. It is open till Midnight all days on the week, and has both indoor and outdoor seating. Though I did not see any food on its menu the Boba is VERY well priced, and its outdoor seating area might work for suiters. But it doesn't have that much of it. It's in a very quiet strip plaza though, so us spilling into the parking lot will probably not be a big deal. It's right across the street from the police station though, so Furries leave your stupid shit at home, or at least in your car. Its about the same distance from PS as In n Out is, and there are no turns. Just walk up Gilbert toward Garden Grove.
Walking Distance
These are the only two feasable places within distance of the PS. There are plenty of Vietnamese tea houses down Brookhurst, since I frequent those often, I can tell you they are ALWAYS packed to the brim.
Depending on how my conversation with Ms. Maurice Caruso goes next week, as I am sure she will call, and if not I will call her, I will go to Boba Loca and inquire about the possibility of us migrating there during the party.
---
Update: Over the past week Growly, akhetnu akhetnu , and sysable sysable have made a series of emails and phone calls to the In n Out in question, and to headquarters, and gotten nowhere. :icon Akhetnu: Only got to talk to the same district manager who kicked us out. I felt it appropriate to take the next step, and today made myself real and present by driving down to their corporate office in Irvine. At the front reception desk I was asked why I was there. I gave all the information nessisary, and after a few calls up to the floor of the office building which In n Out occupies a woman named Maurice Caruso, the director for public outreach came down to the lobby to talk with me. It was very cordial, and quite honestly, was more genuine than I expected. She knew -of- us, but not about us, and I had to fill her in on how we had been going to that In n Out for at least 4 years, and told her exactly what happened. She seemed quite surprised to hear how it was handled by the manager, and that there had been no previous attempt to contact us or to talk to us to reduce our numbers, or express concern. This leads me to believe there was a much greater disconnect between the corporate office and this district manager than I previously thought, and he may not have been acting under direction from the office at all.
Ms. Caruso seemed warmly open to conversation, and though of course she could not solve the problem then and there, she certainly did take seriously how a group who had made the overhead of that location was treated so disrespectfully.
I got someone to come down and see me, and that was more than I was expecting. There was talk of working on a comprimise between us and the In n Out, talk of letting the decision stand but offering us some kind of apologetic compensation, but really the most important thing is that the lines of communication are open, as I have her phone number, and she has mine.
I will keep this journal updated as to what happens, but I want to say that no matter what the outcome I am happy and proud to work this problem for our Fandom.
tomorrow I will be heading up to the PS area to scout for possible new locations for a PS eating venue, and shall update again afterwards.
Below is my original journal.
---
It is not of my disposition to fan the flames of drama needlessly, but to incite discussion where the fruits of which may yeild significant progress. It is for this reason that I even discuss our abrupt and permanant removal from the In n Out at the corner of trask and magnolia by the district manager of the corporation upon his first visit in our -at least- 4 years of including a trip to In N Out in the Prancing Skiltaire furmeet.
This man, playing the part of the big kid on campus waving a compararively small stick, stood arms folded and assertive throughout his visit as he went person to person saying to us we are no longwr welcome, and even going so far as to insist we disclose the contents of our bags and coolers, which held nothing but water and gatorade for the fursuiters, but that he suspected might contain alchohol.
His reasons for our banishment, by which he insisted was a blanket banning of all "large groups" but whatever other large groups do patron this In n Out, I suspect this ban will not be enforced, are as lightweight as a feather and as flimsy as Styrofoam.
His reasons, not all of which I claim to have caught, center around the standard meaningless excuse common to any corporation: a halfhearted concern for public safety and full hearted concern for profits. He said to me of the fursuiters, that what if one were to fall from the brick foyer and injure himself? Less so his concern for our safety, and more for his budget for lawyers. I ask him, if this pathetic reason were the real reason then why wait 4 years onward to make it an issue, let alone show up to observe why this particular location made its overhead in one night.
His likely true motives he revealed, when commenting on our size, coupled with the usual blanket statements of fearing for accidents of other patrons, that his true worry was that we were driving away business, without so much as a thought given that we ARE the business. "What if a mother brought her children here and saw this. she would never want to bring her children here again!" he said, and it was in this statement that I thought I heard the air of accusation against us for our preceeding sexual reputation, but when questioned, of course denied was farthest from the truth with "Come on, do I seem like that kind of guy?"
Well you seem like a man who takes no interest in the goings on of his district, and upon your first visit to our visit proceed to deliver a command of bannishment, threatening police action if we are to return, and a man complacent in giving fake and thin reasons for our banishment when after -at least- four years of continued, timely, and reliable patronizing we are -at least- deserving of the real and full truth.
"I want people to come and eat their burgers and leave" And so I say let them. Let them shoot themselves in the foot, and see their profits drop. To fight to continue to go back there is a fight not worth having with a place so dissmissive of us after -at least- four years without so much as a "thank you for your service."
Rather I take Mark Merlino's stand on this. That no Furry ever go back to that In N Out again. But I ad a caveat that we should not roll over and let such disrespect be allowed, and that we flood the phones and emails on the corporation with complaints citing the points written here.
Our focus should be to find a new and more appreciative venue for our numbet, and I shall help to seem one out.
Yesterday I made a trip up to the PS area and drove all over Trask, Brookhurst, Magnolia, and Garden Grove Blvd to look for a possible new venue for a mid-party trip. I'm sorry to say that the results were not very fruitful. The PS is in a heavily residential area, and In N Out is the only eatery within walking distance (or rather fursuited walking distance) that serves food, and is not a sit down restaurant, and ALSO has space to accommodate a large number of people and suiters. To get to a plaza with a plethera of choices we would have to walk a mile down Trask all the way to Brookhurst and then some, and still, with the exception of a Starbucks, there is no where with plenty of seating. That said Starbucks is all indoors.
Close to the corner of Trask and Brookhurst is a place called Rainbow Donuts . It's open 24 hours, and has SOME seating but not a lot. It is also a really far walk, and the person working the place did not seem too friendly.
Walking Distance
HOWEVER though I said there no restaurants I did find one place that is PERHAPS suitable. It is a place called Boba Loca , a smoothie place in the Korean part of town, and it is right at the corner of Gilbert and Garden Grove. It is open till Midnight all days on the week, and has both indoor and outdoor seating. Though I did not see any food on its menu the Boba is VERY well priced, and its outdoor seating area might work for suiters. But it doesn't have that much of it. It's in a very quiet strip plaza though, so us spilling into the parking lot will probably not be a big deal. It's right across the street from the police station though, so Furries leave your stupid shit at home, or at least in your car. Its about the same distance from PS as In n Out is, and there are no turns. Just walk up Gilbert toward Garden Grove.
Walking Distance
These are the only two feasable places within distance of the PS. There are plenty of Vietnamese tea houses down Brookhurst, since I frequent those often, I can tell you they are ALWAYS packed to the brim.
Depending on how my conversation with Ms. Maurice Caruso goes next week, as I am sure she will call, and if not I will call her, I will go to Boba Loca and inquire about the possibility of us migrating there during the party.
---
Update: Over the past week Growly, akhetnu akhetnu , and sysable sysable have made a series of emails and phone calls to the In n Out in question, and to headquarters, and gotten nowhere. :icon Akhetnu: Only got to talk to the same district manager who kicked us out. I felt it appropriate to take the next step, and today made myself real and present by driving down to their corporate office in Irvine. At the front reception desk I was asked why I was there. I gave all the information nessisary, and after a few calls up to the floor of the office building which In n Out occupies a woman named Maurice Caruso, the director for public outreach came down to the lobby to talk with me. It was very cordial, and quite honestly, was more genuine than I expected. She knew -of- us, but not about us, and I had to fill her in on how we had been going to that In n Out for at least 4 years, and told her exactly what happened. She seemed quite surprised to hear how it was handled by the manager, and that there had been no previous attempt to contact us or to talk to us to reduce our numbers, or express concern. This leads me to believe there was a much greater disconnect between the corporate office and this district manager than I previously thought, and he may not have been acting under direction from the office at all.
Ms. Caruso seemed warmly open to conversation, and though of course she could not solve the problem then and there, she certainly did take seriously how a group who had made the overhead of that location was treated so disrespectfully.
I got someone to come down and see me, and that was more than I was expecting. There was talk of working on a comprimise between us and the In n Out, talk of letting the decision stand but offering us some kind of apologetic compensation, but really the most important thing is that the lines of communication are open, as I have her phone number, and she has mine.
I will keep this journal updated as to what happens, but I want to say that no matter what the outcome I am happy and proud to work this problem for our Fandom.
tomorrow I will be heading up to the PS area to scout for possible new locations for a PS eating venue, and shall update again afterwards.
Below is my original journal.
---
It is not of my disposition to fan the flames of drama needlessly, but to incite discussion where the fruits of which may yeild significant progress. It is for this reason that I even discuss our abrupt and permanant removal from the In n Out at the corner of trask and magnolia by the district manager of the corporation upon his first visit in our -at least- 4 years of including a trip to In N Out in the Prancing Skiltaire furmeet.
This man, playing the part of the big kid on campus waving a compararively small stick, stood arms folded and assertive throughout his visit as he went person to person saying to us we are no longwr welcome, and even going so far as to insist we disclose the contents of our bags and coolers, which held nothing but water and gatorade for the fursuiters, but that he suspected might contain alchohol.
His reasons for our banishment, by which he insisted was a blanket banning of all "large groups" but whatever other large groups do patron this In n Out, I suspect this ban will not be enforced, are as lightweight as a feather and as flimsy as Styrofoam.
His reasons, not all of which I claim to have caught, center around the standard meaningless excuse common to any corporation: a halfhearted concern for public safety and full hearted concern for profits. He said to me of the fursuiters, that what if one were to fall from the brick foyer and injure himself? Less so his concern for our safety, and more for his budget for lawyers. I ask him, if this pathetic reason were the real reason then why wait 4 years onward to make it an issue, let alone show up to observe why this particular location made its overhead in one night.
His likely true motives he revealed, when commenting on our size, coupled with the usual blanket statements of fearing for accidents of other patrons, that his true worry was that we were driving away business, without so much as a thought given that we ARE the business. "What if a mother brought her children here and saw this. she would never want to bring her children here again!" he said, and it was in this statement that I thought I heard the air of accusation against us for our preceeding sexual reputation, but when questioned, of course denied was farthest from the truth with "Come on, do I seem like that kind of guy?"
Well you seem like a man who takes no interest in the goings on of his district, and upon your first visit to our visit proceed to deliver a command of bannishment, threatening police action if we are to return, and a man complacent in giving fake and thin reasons for our banishment when after -at least- four years of continued, timely, and reliable patronizing we are -at least- deserving of the real and full truth.
"I want people to come and eat their burgers and leave" And so I say let them. Let them shoot themselves in the foot, and see their profits drop. To fight to continue to go back there is a fight not worth having with a place so dissmissive of us after -at least- four years without so much as a "thank you for your service."
Rather I take Mark Merlino's stand on this. That no Furry ever go back to that In N Out again. But I ad a caveat that we should not roll over and let such disrespect be allowed, and that we flood the phones and emails on the corporation with complaints citing the points written here.
Our focus should be to find a new and more appreciative venue for our numbet, and I shall help to seem one out.
It surprises me that a party this size and regularity hasn't been stomped on by local regulations. It's surely violating local zoning, codes, licenses and permits. They just haven't noticed yet. Since you're tampering with regulation anyways... seek a better venue rather than bringing drama to businesses who aren't equipped to host parties... Then get ready to deal with budgeting thousands in costs, insurance, permits, politics, all the headaches that con organizers handle... uggh. That's why promoting events for real isn't easy.
Otherwise be careful about making waves... if you make too much noise about a restaurant not hosting a party, and the wrong city official notices, get ready to have it shut down. That's why many underground events happen without advertising any address (parties, house concerts, warehouse raves, food events without regulation, street food service)- so you have to use word of mouth to find them.
Just order a bunch of pizzas if food is an issue. If space is an issue, watch out for that other stuff... and seriously, try promoting in partnership with a bar, club, bowling alley, or something that hosts night life.
Here in San Francisco they had what they call "war on fun", dealing with this- they had cops coming into night clubs and pouring thousands in liquor down the drain just to mess with them, hundreds in thousands in costs to meet codes. Luckily I think that cooled down in the last few years. But they still don't grant any permits to open new clubs.
Hearing about a party overflowing it's space and having trouble with a local business is a warning sign, and could be an opportunity. It's not like furries don't use official venues- every con, bowling meets, dances, even ones that are liberated fetish friendly events (here in SF) do.
The "commissioned venue" thing is really not so formal, though. In MOST cases I think it seems like a friend/partnership thing. Like, an organizer pitches them an event, and the venue likes the idea of the group especially when it's a proven draw. Maybe there's a cover charge or small door fee, but it's only to cover costs and usually very low, pocket money. I think that's a very smart idea for lots of reasons. People treat free things poorly, organizers get burned out paying out of pocket, etc. Some people have gotten reminders to "respect your venue", like, don't sneak booze into a bar that's being a generous host- especially if their drinks are super cheap and strong to begin with - buy at the bar to support them.
When it gets promoted as a formal event, there's no question of cost lowering attendance because the promotion is part of the draw. Actually it seems to draw a fair amount of non-furries who turn into new fans.
Hooking up things like that is all about who you know... it gets into formal event promotion. DJ's are good at it. But you can just cold approach the right people too. Like, aside from monthly meets, we get a lot of good one-offs. Especially to fairs and festivals. I've had great luck going to festival organizers and asking them to donate facilities, and they are enthusiastic because fursuiters are a draw that adds to their event. That's the key, right? That's why it's a good idea to go for it.
For some of the big events around here- some of the partnerships I know of-
- Frolic dance party, at a 21+ gay bar (200-300 people) - the organizer is friends with them through Burning Man/rave culture.
- Bowling meet- I think someone has family who manages the lanes. Good choice for family-friendly night life.
- There's a small circle of pros who do equipment services for fetish events and big festivals and Pride- they help hook up a number of things.
- Same for a few people who hook up raves.
- Then there's a few restaurant meets that aren't officially recognized as far as I know. One says no fursuits or costumes (the restaurant doesnt know who the group is) - one is anything goes in the parking lot, because it's a late night college joint and they don't care.
Meetup.org handles tons of one-offs and informal game/movie/restaurant type events. The bigger it is, the more they get planned with fair applications, sound permits, etc. But if it's just showing up to a fair, the occasion is what makes the informal meet possible.