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Pathfinder Shenanigans: Best Laid Plans
11 years ago
General
For the past few sessions, I've been thinking about an ongoing issue in my Pathfinder game - the issue of planning. In many tabletop RPGs, especially the ones that have less of a combat focus, the PCs will be faced with situations that force them to stop and come up with a plan. Sometimes these plans can be as simple as knocking out, rather than killing the upcoming enemies, but other times they can be on par with Mission: Impossible. No matter the complexity though, someone still has to come up with the plan, and this can lead to some nasty party conflicts.
Generally, coming up with the plan is the job for the characters with high intelligence, like the wizard or rogue. Those classes routinely deal with situations that can't be answered with just a fireball or crossbow bolt in the right spot, so it makes sense that they'd be instructing the Fighter or the Cleric where to make a distraction, what disguise to wear, etc. That's not to say that other classes can't come up with a plan, just that it's usually most in-character for the wizard or rogue to do it. However, sometimes the player behind the rogue or wizard really doesn't like planning or just can't come up with any good plans. Now what do you do? In situations like these, you can't limit the planning to just those characters. You'd end up shutting out players or character choices just because so-and-so can't think like a wizard, can't plan a heist, and so on. You need to open up the planning to the whole party, even if it is somewhat out of character. Obviously the barbarian with 6 intelligence can't come up with a plan to infiltrate the castle, but if the guy playing the rogue is really out of ideas, there's no reason the barbarian's player can't help out. Now, this brings up two problems that are currently plaguing our party:
1) How do you justify, in-character, a complex plan coming from a simple, or different, character?
2) What do you do when one or more party members refuses to help plan?
For the first issue, let's go back to the example I gave above, where the party has to infiltrate the castle. Let's say the rogue's player doesn't like to plan or just isn't very good at it, but the barbarian's player routinely came up with amazing plans on his old character. The barbarian's player comes through again and comes up with an amazing plan. Now how do you deliver it to the party in-character? The barbarian really can't do it because he obviously doesn't have the experience or skill to come up with something like that. Should the rogue deliver the idea? Is that fair to the barbarian or their player for the rogue to take credit for it? What happens if the rogue has to change the plan on the fly and the barbarian isn't around?
I really don't know of a good way to solve this. If you guys have any ideas, I'd be very interested to hear them.
The second issue strikes closer to home. In my Pathfinder game, I'm the one that's routinely coming up with all the plans. The other players suggest solutions to smaller problems now and then, but every time we have to do something complicated, they look to me, and me alone. The thing is, I don't want it to be me alone. I want to come up with something together with the party. I'd like it if my character suggested something, then the other characters chimed in with their own opinions or how their own skills and experiences could contribute to the plan. It doesn't happen.
Now, my DM has pointed out to me that I can't really complain about their lack of planning if I routinely take the initiative to be the first with a plan. I agree that I do voluntarily shoulder the burden because I enjoy planning, and because I like to keep the game moving. I figure that we only have a few hours each week where we're all together, roll dice, and get stuff done. Those precious few hours should not be wasted on out-of-character planning that could easily be accomplished over text on Skype. Hence, I take the job seriously - I do my research and have a plan ready ahead of time that we can implement right away when the next session starts.
But, to humor my DM and to try and encourage some of the other players to get involved in the planning process, I stepped back from our most recent plan. I came up with the big idea for it, how my character would contribute in his half of the plan, and then told the others that it was up to them to come up with their half of the plan. Only one of them rose to the occasion and suggested a pretty decent strategy. The other two offered little to no comment on the suggestion, and several days passed before the next game session without any discussion of their half of the plan. Then, when it comes time to move on to the part of the game we planned for, we have to stop because they still hadn't finalized their plan. They spend an hour or so coming up with alternatives to the previously suggested plan, but ultimately don't decide on anything. We end the session early, still unsure of how to proceed next time.
I now realize that it's not just a problem of planning, but also one of initiative. When I know that I have to come up with a plan in Pathfinder, I jump in right away and keep hammering at it until it's done, so that we can execute it right away when the next session rolls around. Now I know that I really can't hold the others to that standard, but it is very disappointing when other players hold everyone up because they couldn't be bothered to put some effort into moving the game along. To put it another way, it feels like working on a team project in school. Everyone on a team gets the same grade, without regard to who contributed most to the project. Half the team contributes their share, while the other half are content to do nothing, confident that the first half will do all the work because they want a good grade. The first half feels cheated because they did all the work and received no recognition for it.
I've been trying to think up a few ways to solve this problem, but it's incredibly difficult because it's really a matter of player personality. You can't change that without changing players. However, I did come up with one thing that I think would work pretty well on the right character. Plan tax. Whenever your guy comes up with the plan, and the others are content to just ride their coattails, make sure that your plan lets you handle the loot personally. Take an extra 10% or so just for yourself without them knowing, then divvy up the rest normally. If someone catches you and says something, call it a plan tax, and that if they don't want to pay it, they can come up with their own plan.
What do you guys think? Any suggestions for how to avoid/solve these problems?
Generally, coming up with the plan is the job for the characters with high intelligence, like the wizard or rogue. Those classes routinely deal with situations that can't be answered with just a fireball or crossbow bolt in the right spot, so it makes sense that they'd be instructing the Fighter or the Cleric where to make a distraction, what disguise to wear, etc. That's not to say that other classes can't come up with a plan, just that it's usually most in-character for the wizard or rogue to do it. However, sometimes the player behind the rogue or wizard really doesn't like planning or just can't come up with any good plans. Now what do you do? In situations like these, you can't limit the planning to just those characters. You'd end up shutting out players or character choices just because so-and-so can't think like a wizard, can't plan a heist, and so on. You need to open up the planning to the whole party, even if it is somewhat out of character. Obviously the barbarian with 6 intelligence can't come up with a plan to infiltrate the castle, but if the guy playing the rogue is really out of ideas, there's no reason the barbarian's player can't help out. Now, this brings up two problems that are currently plaguing our party:
1) How do you justify, in-character, a complex plan coming from a simple, or different, character?
2) What do you do when one or more party members refuses to help plan?
For the first issue, let's go back to the example I gave above, where the party has to infiltrate the castle. Let's say the rogue's player doesn't like to plan or just isn't very good at it, but the barbarian's player routinely came up with amazing plans on his old character. The barbarian's player comes through again and comes up with an amazing plan. Now how do you deliver it to the party in-character? The barbarian really can't do it because he obviously doesn't have the experience or skill to come up with something like that. Should the rogue deliver the idea? Is that fair to the barbarian or their player for the rogue to take credit for it? What happens if the rogue has to change the plan on the fly and the barbarian isn't around?
I really don't know of a good way to solve this. If you guys have any ideas, I'd be very interested to hear them.
The second issue strikes closer to home. In my Pathfinder game, I'm the one that's routinely coming up with all the plans. The other players suggest solutions to smaller problems now and then, but every time we have to do something complicated, they look to me, and me alone. The thing is, I don't want it to be me alone. I want to come up with something together with the party. I'd like it if my character suggested something, then the other characters chimed in with their own opinions or how their own skills and experiences could contribute to the plan. It doesn't happen.
Now, my DM has pointed out to me that I can't really complain about their lack of planning if I routinely take the initiative to be the first with a plan. I agree that I do voluntarily shoulder the burden because I enjoy planning, and because I like to keep the game moving. I figure that we only have a few hours each week where we're all together, roll dice, and get stuff done. Those precious few hours should not be wasted on out-of-character planning that could easily be accomplished over text on Skype. Hence, I take the job seriously - I do my research and have a plan ready ahead of time that we can implement right away when the next session starts.
But, to humor my DM and to try and encourage some of the other players to get involved in the planning process, I stepped back from our most recent plan. I came up with the big idea for it, how my character would contribute in his half of the plan, and then told the others that it was up to them to come up with their half of the plan. Only one of them rose to the occasion and suggested a pretty decent strategy. The other two offered little to no comment on the suggestion, and several days passed before the next game session without any discussion of their half of the plan. Then, when it comes time to move on to the part of the game we planned for, we have to stop because they still hadn't finalized their plan. They spend an hour or so coming up with alternatives to the previously suggested plan, but ultimately don't decide on anything. We end the session early, still unsure of how to proceed next time.
I now realize that it's not just a problem of planning, but also one of initiative. When I know that I have to come up with a plan in Pathfinder, I jump in right away and keep hammering at it until it's done, so that we can execute it right away when the next session rolls around. Now I know that I really can't hold the others to that standard, but it is very disappointing when other players hold everyone up because they couldn't be bothered to put some effort into moving the game along. To put it another way, it feels like working on a team project in school. Everyone on a team gets the same grade, without regard to who contributed most to the project. Half the team contributes their share, while the other half are content to do nothing, confident that the first half will do all the work because they want a good grade. The first half feels cheated because they did all the work and received no recognition for it.
I've been trying to think up a few ways to solve this problem, but it's incredibly difficult because it's really a matter of player personality. You can't change that without changing players. However, I did come up with one thing that I think would work pretty well on the right character. Plan tax. Whenever your guy comes up with the plan, and the others are content to just ride their coattails, make sure that your plan lets you handle the loot personally. Take an extra 10% or so just for yourself without them knowing, then divvy up the rest normally. If someone catches you and says something, call it a plan tax, and that if they don't want to pay it, they can come up with their own plan.
What do you guys think? Any suggestions for how to avoid/solve these problems?
Darren.Sapphire
~darren.sapphire
From a DM standpoint, one thing I do in my games is when closing up and awarding XP for the session I'll give you "commendation bonuses". So if someone contributes in a meaningful way in the session they get a little extra XP at the end of the night. That could be from a brilliant plan or just doing an exemplary job of role playing their character to name a few. The "plan tax" is something I've suggested to players and have imposed in character as well. How well it works out really depends on your group though. Some are understanding of it while others are not...
Bismarck
~bismarck
OP
That's how I handle it when I'm DMing games. I give out bonus XP based on roleplay and participation. It tends to work out fairly well, but in my experience it doesn't do much to encourage roleplay from those who don't like to do it. Hmm...perhaps I should increase those rewards.
