So I just got done talking with about a dozen liberals...
11 years ago
Of these dozen 12 of them were all very pissed off, depressed, or frightened about the outcome of the election.
Of these dozen, 8 of them lived in states where we just lost something important.
Of these dozen only 1 voted in the midterm and that one lived in a state where liberals don't even need to vote (Cali).
Seriously. This happens almost every midterm. Can ANYBODY enlighten me on why the hell this happens? Why did almost nobody under 35 vote?
I got no real explanation from any of these people why they didn't vote. A few said it slipped their mind. One said he was registered but didn't make it out to the poll and the others said they had to work which of course isn't any excuse at all. My buddy had to work so he did a VBM ballot.
I mean seriously...how do people not understand that congress is more important than the fucking whitehouse. All of these guys claim they voted in the last general election and only ONE voted in the midterm.
I'm just irritated right now and out of almost ten thousand people watching me, there's gotta be hundreds or a thousand that live in these states, are under 35 and didn't vote but have voted in the past. Plus, I just got done watching a compilation of many the political ads that ran in red southern states. I didn't see a single one with even a modicum of actual political substance and i saw about a half dozen that waved bibles and guns in front of the camera and literally that's it. How is this the voice that speaks to a large segment of america? HOW? Why on earth would you vote for a politician that can't even touch on a single issue of policy?
Of these dozen, 8 of them lived in states where we just lost something important.
Of these dozen only 1 voted in the midterm and that one lived in a state where liberals don't even need to vote (Cali).
Seriously. This happens almost every midterm. Can ANYBODY enlighten me on why the hell this happens? Why did almost nobody under 35 vote?
I got no real explanation from any of these people why they didn't vote. A few said it slipped their mind. One said he was registered but didn't make it out to the poll and the others said they had to work which of course isn't any excuse at all. My buddy had to work so he did a VBM ballot.
I mean seriously...how do people not understand that congress is more important than the fucking whitehouse. All of these guys claim they voted in the last general election and only ONE voted in the midterm.
I'm just irritated right now and out of almost ten thousand people watching me, there's gotta be hundreds or a thousand that live in these states, are under 35 and didn't vote but have voted in the past. Plus, I just got done watching a compilation of many the political ads that ran in red southern states. I didn't see a single one with even a modicum of actual political substance and i saw about a half dozen that waved bibles and guns in front of the camera and literally that's it. How is this the voice that speaks to a large segment of america? HOW? Why on earth would you vote for a politician that can't even touch on a single issue of policy?
I almost wonder if it's a self fulfilling prophesy. All i've been hearing for the last month is that the dems would get destroyed because it's the 2nd term of a dem administration and democrats don't vote in midterms. Sure enough, all of it came true. We didn't vote, and we got destroyed.
Perhaps it is just that people are really really stupid, this would explain both my conundrum and yours?
If you told me to vote for you and the only thing you said to try and persuade me is say "Watch me shoot this gun." i would assume you're either an idiot or you assume I'm an idiot.
Also I know two conservatives that think Obama is the one that shut down the government...seriously. They actually think that.
When a single person says Do what I want, AKA obama....
if having alternate views of king obama neans your the obstruction, then I have no pity on the shit that your facing.Work with me was his cry, but that meant not having a differing idea and going from there, it was a point of having to just agree with him.
I will work with you if you do as i bid is how it reads.
There is an alternative, and guess what ones have long past their due date to what is left...
Theres four boxes of complaint.
The Soap Box
The Ballot Box
The Jury box
and the Cartridge (bullet) box
For disclosure im a gay male who thinks upholding the ideals of the Constitutional Republic is still better than force feeding ideals down everyones throat. You get blowback. And set the effort back in spades..
Have fun with it, because its apparently not the cause you seek, but the drama.
If it wasnt forced, natural flow wouldve got what you wanted.
"No, you must give us something first."
Annnd shutdown.
Who's at fault here?
Especially considering thata clean CR -would- have gotten past the House AND Senate, but various rules were used to prevent it (Boehner not letting a bill come to a vote unless it had a majority -from his party- for example)
I think the key this time around, though, is that people aren't voting for the political right as much as they're voting against the current administration. There's several key issues here, you all know them, the public simply isn't happy and that includes people who are associated with the Democrat party and other strongly progressive / socialist groups. A lot of people would rather stay home and not vote at all if they're not happy with their own guys and if they don't think the alternative is any better.
Here in Ohio the Republican ticket did really well, and you can see the political left jumping over and voting for someone in the opposing party. Governor Kasich, for example, won in a landslide. It's easy to see why: Ohio has lowered taxes, decreased spending, and we're running a surplus now. On top of that, job growth has been very aggressive and red tape has been cut for starting new businesses.
Our Treasurer, Josh Mandel, won with a 13% margin. Not because of his party, but because of his performance. He's pushing hard for transparency and has been receiving some great awards to that effect. His major initiative right now is to have all state spending available online so that everyone can see where the money goes. Who doesn't want a transparent government?
This is in a really fickle state politically where we're pretty much split 50/50 on a lot of issues. The secret is these guys are doing things that everyone can support: Who doesn't want lower taxes and more transparency? Who doesn't want their government to save money? They're doing it well enough that people will temporarily throw off the chains of slavery of their favored political party and vote for the other guy, because the other guy really and truly is doing a good job.
I wish more people would do that. Too many people are completely blinded by the ® or the (D) after someone's name; they won't even look at the guy from the other party, they automatically believe all the propaganda, they won't even consider a different point of view.
If we want to fix the disaster that is happening in DC we need to start with ourselves. Stop buying into the "us vs. them" mentality. If you find someone who sees things differently, try to find what you can agree on and move from there. If you hear something nasty about a candidate, spend five minutes to see if it's really true. Quotes are notorious for being taken completely out of context. Even if you don't think you're going to vote for someone, give them the benefit of the doubt.
Think about what is really important. Too many times I see people discard a candidate because of their stance on some small, relatively insignificant issue. No candidate is perfect. We want our legislators to compromise, right? Well, if we ask them to do so, and we refuse to do so ourselves, then we're just being hypocrites. Try to understand why someone believes what they do; sometimes the reasoning will surprise you.
It's okay to change your mind on things. We're all learning, society changes, we have new experiences. And most of all, don't take it personally when someone disagrees with you. I assure you that someone's stance on taxes or foreign policy or the 4th amendment doesn't have anything to do with you.
Opposition to the plan was heavy from conservatives, libertarians, and the health insurance industry. The industry produced a highly effective television ad, "Harry and Louise", in an effort to rally public support against the plan. Instead of uniting behind the President's original proposal, Democrats offered a number of competing plans of their own. Hillary Clinton was drafted by the Clinton Administration to head a new Task Force and sell the plan to the American people, a plan which ultimately backfired amid the barrage of fire from the pharmaceutical and health insurance industries and considerably diminished her own popularity. By September 1994, the final compromise Democratic bill was declared dead by Senate Majority Leader George J. Mitchell
X-D Wikipedia is always right!
Literally, the GOP created gridlock then ran on gridlock and won. It just boggles the mind how people fall for it.
You won't see how good/bad a President is till well into the next one's term. It takes a while for the current president's policies and initiatives to take hold and actually change things noticeably. Obama is dealing with Bush's crap, the next president will be dealing with all of Obama's shortcomings. and so on...
Also, this whole nonsense about obstructionism is the most hypocritical nonsense. Liberals only complain about obstructionism if it's the opposing party, the Republicans standing up against liberal policies. If it's the other way around, then that's okay. Do liberals actually expect Republicans and conservative candidates to just roll over and say "yes, let's go ahead and let the Dems pass bills that we disagree with and think are bad for the country." The Founders set up a system like this precisely because it includes obstructionism. They wanted to make it as difficult as possible for a single, centralized power to dominate everything. That's why they call it checks and balances.
As for obstructionism, I am all for parties using their powers to keep eachother in check but when Mich openly states that the Republicans main priority is to make Obama a one term president instead of focusing on creating a comprehensive jobs bill or any bill that would help the economy, then the party has gone too far. The Republican shut down cost Americans 24 BILLION in lost revenues. Tea Party Republicans are the definition of government responsibility.
Progressive are extremely popular among populations that don't vote.
Some people just do not care. But then, if you make it so that a lot of people won't see the point, then they won't do anything.
One vote on its own is meaningless, but no vote exists in a vacuum.
There seriously is no excuse for not voting.
It was a municipal election and I was at university in another city at the time and the three races boiled down to:
How big of a win the new mayor was going to have, (there was little question that he was going to get the majority of the vote).
An acclaimed city council race.
An acclaimed school board race, (unless I wanted to switch from public-English to one of the other boards).
I can see a lot of silver lining, putting all that aside: every candidate and almost every ballot measure I voted for passed, several states voted to raise the minimum wage (even deep red ones), one deep blue and one deep red state voted to legalize marijuana (don't use it, but I'm anti-prohibition), and 2016 is when the tea partiers from 2010 are up for reelection. I dealt with 8 years of Dubya, so I can deal with two years of dueling banjos ("dueling banjos" is my nickname for McConnell and Cruz).
Why have the democrats NEVER exploited this fact ever to my knowledge? The progressives wiped the floor with the conservatives on ballot initiatives, this is just more evidence of what i'm talking about.
Why would hte democrats say "Hey guys, we have guns and bibles too! See? We're like you!" instead of "Hey guys, these are the issues we think are important and we know you agree with us."
The democrat turnout was pathetic, the democrat campaigns were pathetic. We deserved this loss.
"We polled the people in $District and found that:
78% want A, Mr. R opposes it.
82% want B, Mr. R voted against it.
71% want C, Mr. R filibustered it.
etc.
If he doesn't agree with you, why vote for him?"
There are Reaganaut War on Drug pedallers on both sides the aisle. Look at the Senior Democrat Senator of California for instance, Diane 'Her Majesty' Feinstein. I don't think there's anyone more for drug prohibition in the Senate.
Also, you have the issue that if someone is serious about ending the war on drugs, they vote fucking libertarian.
minimum wage,
Didn't like two states pass a higher minimum wage on ballot initiative while also going significantly more red?
gay marriage,
Top Democrats were late to this party too. Hillary only had an opinion on this issue after it was crystal clear what the people wanted. Obama as a Senator was at best cold on it. Gore used to be severely anti-gay, even buddy-buddy with the WBC.
Do remember, the same people who went to the polls to vote in Obama in 2008 in California also ticked 'yes' on Prop 8.
gun background checks,
Passed in Washington, although the way the law is written you can become a felon if you let your buddy shoot your gun at a range. That had the full monetary backing of Bloomberg and Gates though.
Really, the 'polls' on UBCs were kind of fluffed, they asked known Democrats in like three Northeastern states, and used the '90%' statistic off that. Americans overwhelming are pro-gun.
Ask Illinois's Republican Governor-Elect that, the Dems in that state almost exclusively ran on a gun control platform and were roundly defeated.
You also have the issue of tenacity here. Your average person who responds to a poll saying 'yes more gun control' really doesn't care. Where as not only do pro-gun people care, they vote. A lot. This is why NRA rallies get so many people to come, and why the anti groups are lucky to get 25.
This is seriously the single most poisonous issue to the DNC, and if they honestly dropped it, they would kill at the vote. As is it really hurts more moderate Democrats in contentious areas worse.
the stupid fucking wars,
Excuse me, did you live in a fucking cave when the entire Administration was beating the wardrum in Syria only for Kerry to accidentally cause a peace process?
They all looked like kids told Christmas was cancelled when they weren't allowed to embroil us in another pointless Mid-East war. All politicians are war-mongering dickheads. Obama just didn't get his way unlike Bush.
Either way, the next few years will NOT be any better.
Thanks!
Congress may be important, the states are even more important because US elections are run by party hacks selected at the state level. Seriously guys, how about catching up with the civilized world and isolating the running of elections from politics[2].
[1] They kind of had to, the alternative hands them a trivial loss even under the gutted Voter Rights Act.
[2] And fix your voter registration system while you're at it: You shouldn't be relying on third parties who get to see the way people are probably going to vote before they actually do the registration. It would probably even save you money to copy how Canada does things, (most people update their registration every year when the fill out their income tax return, you just have to tick a single box saying 'CRA can forward my info to Elections Canada').
Even a first-order pass, (decide what you consider important, read the platforms, pick the one that you most agree with on the important stuff), will often have you making the 'right' vote for you. Also remember that with multi-vote ballots it's OK to say something like "I don't know enough about $Office to decide who is best" and skipping that one vote.
-Spiritwolf.
Also the same article highlights very easy 1st Amendment challenges on such a concept in the US. Of the nations that actually enforce those laws, which are only half of those with them, you've got the typical weirdos. Luxembourg does it only for those above 70?! Singapore makes sense. Everything else is mandatory there...
Still when one thinks 'modern democracies', the typical Western European nations like the UK, France, Germany come to mind, not Argentina or Uruguay. So how can America call itself a Democracy and not have compulsory voting? The same way most Democracies do who don't have it or didn't have it, including Athens.
-The party just lost a group of legislators that were a liability in that they put pressure on Obama to delay the executive action on immigration... for their own offices sake. Since their influence has been reduced, I'd imagine this means the democrats have a less awkward position to work from.
Again, this all depends on the democrats actually being bold and hard. The age reaching across the aisle is over, for now at least.
Presidental votes get a lot more participation because the entire nation is talking about it for so long, that people eventually either pick a candidate to identify with or decide not to vote at all. A senate race only happens in the state though, so there are a lot fewer people discussing them. Plus, it's not a vote for the entire white house and cabinets, but 1/100th of a decision by the senate. And even then, most candidates "vote with the party", so each individual vote at the polls seems so insignificant, even though people as a whole could certainly sway things by affecting the majority.
I live in NC. I voted for incumbent democrat Kay Hagan. She was seemingly ahead for most of the campaign, rallying behind her continued support for important things like education and environmental safety (there's been this coal ash dump thing...). Then Thom Tillis and the rest of the republicans basically campaigned on "Hagan votes with Obama. Vote for me and I won't do that." And he barely won by less than 2% on Tuesday, basically on anti-Obama sentiments that partially come from all the trouble ISIS has caused overseas (beheading american journalists) and Obama being "unable" to deal with it enough.
And that's why I don't like the right wing now taking over as senate majority. I don't know what other senators in other states campaigned on, but odds are, most of them are the same as Tillis and a bunch of other past candidates- "I won't vote with Obama." And that's not a proactive stance on anything. What do you do other than say no to Obama, who's putting down decent ideas and leadership? Even if you disagree with what Obama's up to, simply rejecting every bill that Mitch McConnell or Ted Cruz isn't supporting because it's not ultra conservative leads to these worthless years that Congress have been wasting doing very little other than shutting down the government temporarily. And that isn't just me flapping my gums...they've statistically passed way fewer bills in recent years than in previous ones.
2 more years of Obama + Republican majority in both the house AND senate basically means deadlock Washington doing nothing worthwhile. And it's not Obama's fault. He sincerely does reach across the aisle quite a bit. But over the past 3-4 years it's been "Appeal Obamacare or we agree to nothing." And that doesn't work.
-The propaganda spewing around out there can be discredited with a 5 second search on google in some cases, and about 20 minutes of research in most others. Democracy cannot function if the citizenry will not do its own homework, period. If people won't do that, then the people are the problem.
-A lot of pundits were talking about how the 'latino vote' wanted to punish Obama for not taking executive action on immigration (which if true, represents extreme stupidity in that such a short sighted pettiness doesnt work too well when inaction leads to a wildly anti immigration party gains power). Children's games are not good models for political strategy.
-Don't get me started on how the right wing radicals have brainwashed our aging (and increasingly, medically senile) voting population of baby boomers who I cannot describe how furious I am with. I can literally see this brainwashing IN MY OWN PARENTS. Its a pathetic sight to see my dad parotting the nonsense from creepers like Mark Levin like its gospel truth, then frightening to realize perhaps a quarter of the country believes it.
-Democrats have done little to make themselves palatable to voters outside of issues such as women, labor rights and environmental issues. On economics, I think they're just as clueless as republicans. Sure its great to bash corporations (I dislike them as well), but to offer equally dysfunctional setups is not a way to go. Democrats such as Clinton and Obama pushed for massive neoliberal agendas such as NAFTA and TPP (respectively), which are foolish and silly political moves designed to advance American hegemony dressed up as hippy peacenik programs to 'bring humanity together.' Since Americans can't compete with child laborers making 16 cents an hour, this hasn't exactly been a great thing for our economy.
-The perceived influence of radical feminism has reached (I think) a critical mass where young liberal men are starting to get scared off from the a party that seems to be pushing for loony toons laws written by people who either are clueless about how human sexuality works or are too cowardly to say no to mentally unstable banshees. This is an issue that WILL drive people to the Republican party; don't kid yourself, when people start to feel threatened (also note this is why more people are homeschooling) in the public sphere they will go to the side that claims to protect them.
This is why I don't vote for politicians that don't touch on a single issue of policy. More often than not (every single time actually) this means I either vote for myself or leave the Senator space blank.
This is also probably why those people didn't vote. But vote or not, someone red or blue is getting elected, so even if you vote for a different party it's still like you didn't vote at all. But hey, taking a voter out of the pool is nice.
He might not win, but if both big two candidates know that the guy from the Whatsit Party is going to draw even 5% of the vote it becomes worth their time to make a deal with him and trade support for some of his issues in exchange for him staying out of the race and endorsing someone.
A lot of conservatives are just that; conservative. They do want the benefits of liberal policy, but they're jumpy about the possibility of their taxes being raised, their values being sold out, more regulation of what they perceive as their limited rights, or programs which promise the moon and deliver a lot of red tape. If you scare these guys, they'll get scared. I suspect a lot of the rank and file don't expect to get that much out of Republican leadership, so much as they fear losing with Democrat leadership.
A fair number of these people are hugely indoctrinated. If you have your job, and let's say you have a family or some community issues, you're not swimming in energy to research things, so if you're researching things, it's probably turning on the mainstream news, or you're talking to people in your community, church especially, and these aren't unbiased sources. What's more you've been indoctrinated from grade school with the way liberals will want to spend crap-tons of tax dollars to little effect on seemingly every demographic other than yours. You've been indoctrinated that, Black or northerner or stereotypical college graduate, anything to the left of Dubya is almost a completely alien demographic to you; a clueless ivory tower college grad at best, and an actively selfish danger at worst, so you're bringing your own unconscious bias into your take on the biased news and biased churchy talk. A lot of what you're seeing in ads is basically the candidate saying "I am not alien to you; I am actually part of your demographic" and while this isn't always true, sometimes it is -- so no, it's not about actual issues here.
What King said about most apparent evil being actually ignorance is very very literal here. This is how you get a lot of ordinary southerners who aren't necessarily terrible people, voting to basically screw all of us, themselves included.
Dude, you don't get less than 50% approval ratings because of Republican obstruction.
Oh, they may be wearied by the relentless election-mongering, or faced difficulties because of Republican efforts to disenfranchise Democrat-leaning voters, or sick of Obama's poor record on NSA or drone attacks, or sick of the Congress and its dysfunction... there are lots of reasons and excuses. But in the end, it comes down to them not caring enough, or believing they matter.
It's an old problem. When the Republicans are unhappy with their representatives, they vote harder to get people they like in. When the Democrats are unhappy, they stay home.
Sure the republicans took the senate. But to do it, they had to move a lot more to the center, and away from the extremes of ideologies that have made for such terrible sound bites over the last few years. It's a subtle change, but an important one.
Dems dropped the ball and didn't step up. The Repub did with their money and candidate strategies.
I wish we could try and see the good (as BoingGoat mentions about shifting away from more extreme ideologies) but I have absolutely no doubt that the shift away from those ideologies will be short-lived. The shift occurred to win the spot---now they have the spot. They've flip-flopped before and there's no reason to think they won't again. So yeah, at this point...sigh.
* To be fair, voter laws do make it more difficult for certain people to vote, have been shown to benefit a particular party and are increasingly being pushed by said party.
If their vote was worth a hundred of everyone else’s votes, then maybe they would go. But voting just like everyone else, having their single vote count for no more than everyone else’s means that they are not special. So they do not waste their precious time -- and would rather just sit at home playing their my video games where they can make believe that they are special.
People today are much more self-centered and ‘it’s all about ME’ then they were half-a-century ago.
The up-side of this “if it is not about me personally then I am not interested” social phenomena is that the votes of those who DO vote count for much more in deciding whose ideas will run the country than those who turn their backs on the whole process and pout.
People need to think voting will change the status quo if they are to bother to vote at all. In Scotland we had a referendum over independence - over 84% of the electorate voted. That's pretty incredible, but that figure is so high because so many people were certain that their vote was going to make a difference. If people think it's "same shit, different arsehole", they'll be less likely to vote. So it's mostly apathy.
Democracy therefore is dangerous, as the most activated and loudest people will win, in a long term. In every European country the extreme parties are gaining for almost a decade, as their small amount of voters become more important thanks to the deceasing number of voters.
As the majority of people has been, was, is and will be unable to see beyond their own small horizon and to get their ass up if no direct, personal motivatons force them to, democracy is indeed the worst form of government except North Korea.
It also comes down to how much money massive corporations use to influence one side over another and how many ads the media runs promoting one side over another, remember we live in a "Crony Capitalism" country not a democracy or free market. http://www.opensecrets.org/news/201.....-game-changed/ One has to realize most people are easily led and influenced by things as stupid as the amount of and the font and colors of a "vote for me" sign in someones front yard, or the lies and pandering and fear mongering politicians do on both sides of the divide to get or keep their cushy government job. There are hundreds of millions of dollars poured into psychological studies every year to see what can be done to influence the general public at large. A lot of times it is that old trick of putting a normal guy in a lab coat and telling people he is a doctor, and they will believe he is a doctor. Most don't look beyond the big D or R on the ticket and vote for what they always vote for, even supposedly educated people will do this.
I really miss the moderates that used to be able to agree and shake hands in the middle. Maybe one day we can have a third party that is in the middle to balance out the extremes from both sides.
I voted and voted Republican! WOOT! :D
Some people I know didn't... because they literally had nothing to vote for. So many local/state gov't positions, and in their case [i]all three house reps[i], ran uncontested.
The kicker? It didn't matter anyway, because I'm from the district of the shit-state where all the Democrats easily won.
Oh, and the other kicker?!
I. Am. A. Registered. Democrat.