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Lets talk about Prices: Industry Standar vs Fandom Standar
11 years ago
I've seen a lot of artist retweeting the same picture over an over again saying that their prices were low and blah blah blah.
This picture to be more precise: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u.....1/industry.jpg
And I get it. Everyone want a far payment for their job.
But the fandom is not an industry at all. I'm not saying that artist are not allowed to charge what ever they want for their job. I'm just saying that commissioners can't pay what artist want to get.
If you're an artist and want to charge 700 usd to 2000 usd go ahead but maybe the fandom is not the right target and you'll not get as much commissions you want or none at all. Unless you're a high tier artist and have a reputation.
Also let's talk about the differences between an Industry Artist and a Fandom Artist.
What you could expect from an Industry Artist:
High resolution files
.pdf, .sai or .ai files or what ever you're paying for.
In the near 200 pictures I've commissioned over the years only 2 or 3 artists delivered high resolution pictures. Tough none of them the original files.
Be The Copyright Holder
Basically you end owning the art. Which allows you to use whenever you want to whatever you wants and yes, its how things work. I as a software developer If a person contracts me to do a shopping cart I don't get paid for every sale they do. I get paid for my job which is program the shopping cart and nothing more.
"Hey but that is software not a picture!" Digital art is not software too? Bytes less bytes more, in the end its something digital.
And I'm pretty sure that if I want to sell copies of the art I commissioned more than on artist will come knocking at my door pissed or at least asking for a share of the bounty.
Timelines
You'll get what you asked for in the expected timeline.
What you can expect from Fandom Artists:
Broken Timelines
Several times I got my art due the timeline. Even when the artist itself put the timeline in first place.
Event waited 3+ years for a sketch.
Ignore Contact
A few months ago commissioned an artist that was needing to pay the rent so was in a rush offering slots. I got the art the same day but it needed only one change, a minor change. So i requested the change via note, all the communication was that way, but never got a reply. A few months later contacted again and still never got the reply but all notes appeared as read.
Quality Change
It happened with two artist that advertised a quality and got something that doesn't look at all like it was done by them. And when you try to talk to them about that they reply that is the same quality they always offer when clearly its not.
Price Changes
Oh this one is amazing. Commissioned an artist a few years ago at lets say $35 usd, he delayed 8 months to contact me back asking for details for the commission and show the sketch. In the meantime of those 8 month he updated and raised his prices. And intended to deliver an ink instead a full color because his prices changed. Tough I've paid before the change.
Scams
Yep. Wiped galleries disabled userpages. No answers to emails, notes, skype, whatever. You get it right? Happened to me four times already. Never saw my money again.
And at this point I got tired of writing but you get the idea :D
Resuming: You as an artist have obligations too as the commissioner does. If you think you deserve raise your prices you've to prove that your art and your hard work worth it. Also you can expect that you'll not get as much commissioners as before.
And remember! The fandom is a low budget industry.
PD: I might be wrong and my way of thinking, but I think I had enough experience with artist to know pretty well what I can expect. You can take your own conclusions.
This picture to be more precise: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u.....1/industry.jpg
And I get it. Everyone want a far payment for their job.
But the fandom is not an industry at all. I'm not saying that artist are not allowed to charge what ever they want for their job. I'm just saying that commissioners can't pay what artist want to get.
If you're an artist and want to charge 700 usd to 2000 usd go ahead but maybe the fandom is not the right target and you'll not get as much commissions you want or none at all. Unless you're a high tier artist and have a reputation.
Also let's talk about the differences between an Industry Artist and a Fandom Artist.
What you could expect from an Industry Artist:
High resolution files
.pdf, .sai or .ai files or what ever you're paying for.
In the near 200 pictures I've commissioned over the years only 2 or 3 artists delivered high resolution pictures. Tough none of them the original files.
Be The Copyright Holder
Basically you end owning the art. Which allows you to use whenever you want to whatever you wants and yes, its how things work. I as a software developer If a person contracts me to do a shopping cart I don't get paid for every sale they do. I get paid for my job which is program the shopping cart and nothing more.
"Hey but that is software not a picture!" Digital art is not software too? Bytes less bytes more, in the end its something digital.
And I'm pretty sure that if I want to sell copies of the art I commissioned more than on artist will come knocking at my door pissed or at least asking for a share of the bounty.
Timelines
You'll get what you asked for in the expected timeline.
What you can expect from Fandom Artists:
Broken Timelines
Several times I got my art due the timeline. Even when the artist itself put the timeline in first place.
Event waited 3+ years for a sketch.
Ignore Contact
A few months ago commissioned an artist that was needing to pay the rent so was in a rush offering slots. I got the art the same day but it needed only one change, a minor change. So i requested the change via note, all the communication was that way, but never got a reply. A few months later contacted again and still never got the reply but all notes appeared as read.
Quality Change
It happened with two artist that advertised a quality and got something that doesn't look at all like it was done by them. And when you try to talk to them about that they reply that is the same quality they always offer when clearly its not.
Price Changes
Oh this one is amazing. Commissioned an artist a few years ago at lets say $35 usd, he delayed 8 months to contact me back asking for details for the commission and show the sketch. In the meantime of those 8 month he updated and raised his prices. And intended to deliver an ink instead a full color because his prices changed. Tough I've paid before the change.
Scams
Yep. Wiped galleries disabled userpages. No answers to emails, notes, skype, whatever. You get it right? Happened to me four times already. Never saw my money again.
And at this point I got tired of writing but you get the idea :D
Resuming: You as an artist have obligations too as the commissioner does. If you think you deserve raise your prices you've to prove that your art and your hard work worth it. Also you can expect that you'll not get as much commissioners as before.
And remember! The fandom is a low budget industry.
PD: I might be wrong and my way of thinking, but I think I had enough experience with artist to know pretty well what I can expect. You can take your own conclusions.
it's fine to put that price like that but it really REALLY bugs me when they start to complain and cry foul about how theyre so ignored and they need to live too
again, nothing wrong with a high price, just please people, stop whining about no customers ples! i see this way too often XD
A high end artist will need a high end commissioner. Which the fandom lacks of them.
Simply as that.
I also agree that furries should stop whining about commissions costing $50 or more, but it tends to be broke-ass furries that do the whining. Go figure. If someone wants something really bad, then they should save up for it instead of bitching as the bitching does nothing but cause drama. I currently attend college so when I want art, games, computer stuff, furry stuff, or to go to a convention, I use what little I get from helping family to afford those things, even if it takes me months to save up. It's worth it in the end.
Several times when i get such wonderful experiences with artist that not only delivered the art in time, also keep in touch constantly or event deliver it the same day I tend to give them tips that sometimes match the same price of the picture because they worth it.
Which those that get the things done was a pain in the ass they simply don't see me again.
There is one artist(a duo) in particular, rather popular and well-known around these parts, constantly taking more pieces for various comics and art in general, but a large project they started nine months ago? That people pre-paid for(myself included), haven't seen any progress on, just one further delay after another. It's made it rather clear to me that I'm not going to be commissioning them ever again. I understand the need for money, that goes without saying, but piling on a large work-load atop of a project that hasn't even been started, it's a slap to the face when I see all the pieces posted by the pair of artists yet there's been radio silence for eight months now.
At that point you only can post them at artist_beware because they don't leave you other choice. Yesterday I did a post there about an artist that I commissioned in 2013 and disappeared, but the fun thing is that she is active on xbox...so... at least she didn't died.
Its why im much more selective on my art, now. I dont like being told a timeframe, only for them to go back on it. Taking on new comics, new big projects, constant commissions. All with no progress on the original.
Its absurd that they are whining about how cheap they are but don't show enough responsibility to take care of their own business and costumers to prove why they will be raising their prices.
Supply and demand, plain and simple.
"Industry" artists have jobs because their work is in demand, and it's pretty inelastic. People need artwork done for all sorts of shit. Individuals would never pay those kind of numbers just for simple character drawings.
Furry artists have jobs because cheap ass furries can afford their prices. Furry art is elastic, though. If an artist bumps up their price to $1,000 they might see one or two customers, but that's it. People don't need furry art. It's a luxury.
If I drop that kind of money on an artist, I'd fully expect industry standard processes. Good luck getting that from a furry artist.
FA is one of the most toxic community i've seen in regard to the artists that feeds it.
Eso, y que ya les gustaria al 99% de los artistas furries tener el nivel para poder trabajar profesionalmente como ilustradores Y cobrar esos precios. Generalmente no hay talento suficiente, o tecnica suficiente, o experiencia suficiente o seriedad suficiente.
Y por tanto, realmente es el fandom el que establece los precios y baremos. Es una aficion, y ademas los comisionistas acordamos con el artista no sacar beneficio economico del dibujo, eso para empezar.
Asi que yo entiendo que hay CASOS PUNTUALES en los que un artista esta muy por debajo de lo que 'deberia cobrar' porque NO ES POPULAR, pero ay, amigo, es que hay que hacerse un nombre en cualquier arte, y trabajar mucho y bien para que la gente te conozca.
Al final todos los que dicen este tipo de cosas es por envidia, pura y dura. A mi tambien me gustaria cobrar millones por hacer un CRM, como Microsoft, pero no soy Microsoft. A muchos artistas les gustaria poder cobrar lo que cobra Wolfy-nail, Zaush u otros, pero:
a) No son tan populares, por tanto hay menos gente dispuesta a darles pasta por sus dibujos
b) Probablemente algunos los artistas mas populares del furry no cobrarian tanto en el sector editorial. Es mas, puede que ni encontraran un trabajo en ese sector.
Es que de verdad, me parece estar mezclando terminos y conceptos que no tienen sentido. Quieres ser ilustrador como el del ejemplo? Pues intentalo. Que no llegas a mas que a 'artista de furry fandom'? Pues date con un canto en los dientes, que al menos por querer o que te guste dibujar penes tienes algun ingreso!
Ahora para muchos es mas cómodo abrir comisiones, cobrar poco y quejarse que salir a buscar un empleo de verdad para cobrar lo que ellos esperan cobrar. Como bien dice el titulo es el estándar del fandom contra el estándar de la industria.
Si quieres cobrar una pasta enorme pues tienes que trabajar por ella, demostrar profesionalismo, mejorar día a día y ofrecer un mejor servicio. Bla bla bla.
Te amo...hazme un hijo <3