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"Artists shouldn't do ___." No.
10 years ago
General
Pricing Guide
remember all of these are base prices only! If you believe that using Patreon, YCH, etc. to make more money, market one's art, or take advantage of undecisive or non-artistic commissioners makes an artist somehow less authentic, less trustworthy, or undeserving of his or her business, you are wrong.
Let's talk about YCH first. A lot of commissioners struggle to come up with ideas/poses they like, and prefer to wait for a sketch to be proposed to them before committing to the commission. It's a way to appeal directly to non-artistic art enthusiasts who don't know what they want or who aren't comfortable pitching ideas to the artist in question.
For instance, say Commissioner X really likes Artist A's work, but just can't think of anything in specific they really want. They feel too shy to ask A for artistic license, or they aren't sure that A's artistic creativity would produce something they're 100% happy with - and of course it's rude to ask for a sketch before you pay, since that's against A's (and most artists') policy!
So X is just doodling along checking through his submissions one day when he sees that A put up a really cute sketch that he could absolutely see his favorite character in! He clicks on it excitedly but it's a commission sketch for someone else; now he can't ask for the same pose without looking like a copycat or risking the artist's integrity as a lot of people view that as pure laziness on the artist's behalf.
With YCH pieces, commissioners like X get a chance to see what they're getting BEFORE they even stick a hand up and say they're interested. This is why they're so popular. You're paying a bit extra to compensate the artist for their time and creativity because you do not have those skills (or yours are not on par with theirs).
As with any other service, you are paying the artist to do something you cannot. If you feel your artistic creativity is better or you have a specific pose/scene in mind, then you pay a bit less for the artist to not have to come up with something on their own for you.
This leads us into Patreon. A lot of people think Patreon is somehow unfair, that because the art is already being produced, the public is entitled to view it for free. First of all, no; get your entitled asses in line - art takes work; hours upon hours of work not only in production but in practice, in experimentation, in learning new tools and programs and not least of all HUGE expenses in paying for tablets and computers capable of running art programs.
The average person whining, "But art should be available for FREE! Charging for it is just so soulless!" has no idea what goes into an average artists's production. Let's say they've been drawing for 4 years professionally. Over those 4 years that artist had to buy probably 2 tablets at around $150 each (figuring conservatively for high-end, long-lasting digital tablets with 1024 levels of pressure sensitivity - NOT the cintiqs that cost THOUSANDS or the Intuos 'standard' tablets that cost between $300-$500). Pen nibs cost around $10 a box and last maybe 6-10 months if you draw frequently. Then there's a good, sturdy worktable which can be around $50 if you find one at a thrift store you like or buy one from Walmart. Plus a $1200 or so computer that can run all the basics like Photoshop, Paint Tool SAI, and OBS (for livestreams!).
That's on the low scale for most of the artists who are using Patreon - these guys are often using the big Cintiq display tablets and pay $15 a month ($180 per year) for Photoshop. Plus there's all kinds of brush packs, art classes/workgroups, and webinars you need in order to keep up with the technology in question. So we're already at around $2k after tax on the low end for an artist's yearly costs in order to produce the quality of artwork that commissioners so frequently take for granted as just being "talent" or "luck".
Now let's look at what enables artists to produce the quantity of work that people expect. Newsflash: most of them cannot live off of their art wages, because of the deflation of the dollar as it relates to furry art. In the graphic design world, 8 hours' worth of drawing time is worth approximately $1200. In the furry world, an artist might be lucky to get $100 for a piece of the same quality.
However, despite the community's lack of support, these artists still need to pay bills and feed themselves. Most of us work full time jobs and do art on the side, or live with spouses/family that supplement our art wages to keep us from starving to death.
Check out my monthly budget:
Rent: $450/month
Power: $60/month
Internet: $50/month
Food: $100/month
Pet expenses: ~$150/month (food, toys, medication, and various grooming/vet costs)
Total: $810
Keep in mind that the first four things are split either two or three ways because I live with two other people. I'd be paying even MORE if I lived alone.
These numbers regularly go up for various things, like extreme heat or extreme cold, one of my animals getting sick or needing other vet care, and includes NOTHING as far as entertainment goes at all. Keep in mind I don't have half the expenses that most people do - no kids, no mortgage, no car, no insurance.
I make approximately $35 per commission. One $35 commission would take me approximately 4 hours to complete, which means I'm just barely making minimum wage for my state at $8.75/hour. That means I would need to be making and completing at least 23 commissions at $35 per commission in order to cover JUST my living expenses...figuring in absolutely nothing for entertainment, social activity, romantic outings with carrotwolf, or random expenses like birthday gifts or even buying art for myself.
So the average artist is hardly making enough to survive off his or her art. Patreon provides a way for them to produce art on their own schedules, allowing them to work full-time and provide themselves and their families with a comfortable, healthy lifestyle.
"But I should be able to view their art for free," many people complain. "It's not art if it's pay-per-view! That's not what art is about! I shouldn't have to pay in order to look at something that already exists, that isn't my personal character, and it's just taking advantage of fans!"
Well, unfortunately, you're not entitled to a single goddamn thing.
I've even heard people make the argument that "patreon art is taking advantage of people's sex drives and desires". The fact of the matter, is there is PLENTY of erotic and non-erotic art available to satisfy anybody. Hell, every minute someone uploads something new to FA - go refresh the front page a few times!
But when you're not compensating anybody for their work, you do not get to make demands or claims to entitlement. When you pay for Patreon artists, you are paying to support an artist that you particularly enjoy seeing work from to continue creating art. If an artist produces 25% of their art for free and the other 75% is pay-to-view, they are already providing 25% of their content for free...which often means they're doing hours' worth of hard work completely for free to provide YOU with the art that you enjoy for about two minutes before moving on to the next picture.
How exactly is this unfair to the average commissioner/art-appreciator, again?
I guess the point I'm trying to make with this long-winded, irritated journal is that while it's fun and rewarding in other ways to provide the community with free and cheap art, it's really not a successful business model or something that we can make a living off of doing. By getting self-righteous and angry about artists who raise their prices to minimum wage or above, or take advantage of the pay-to-view models available through Patreon and Kickstarter, you are making yourself out to be a self-entitled, pretentious asshat who really deserves none of the art you're demanding to see.
And if your argument boils down to "Well, I want it and can't pay for it and that's not fair", guess what - that's how we artists feel every day when we want to go out for a nice dinner, go to the movies, attend an event, travel to visit family and friends, or go to college/university. The only way you can get what you want is to work for it. Get a job and stop demanding special treatment from the furry community.
We've given you more than enough for free.
Let's talk about YCH first. A lot of commissioners struggle to come up with ideas/poses they like, and prefer to wait for a sketch to be proposed to them before committing to the commission. It's a way to appeal directly to non-artistic art enthusiasts who don't know what they want or who aren't comfortable pitching ideas to the artist in question.
For instance, say Commissioner X really likes Artist A's work, but just can't think of anything in specific they really want. They feel too shy to ask A for artistic license, or they aren't sure that A's artistic creativity would produce something they're 100% happy with - and of course it's rude to ask for a sketch before you pay, since that's against A's (and most artists') policy!
So X is just doodling along checking through his submissions one day when he sees that A put up a really cute sketch that he could absolutely see his favorite character in! He clicks on it excitedly but it's a commission sketch for someone else; now he can't ask for the same pose without looking like a copycat or risking the artist's integrity as a lot of people view that as pure laziness on the artist's behalf.
With YCH pieces, commissioners like X get a chance to see what they're getting BEFORE they even stick a hand up and say they're interested. This is why they're so popular. You're paying a bit extra to compensate the artist for their time and creativity because you do not have those skills (or yours are not on par with theirs).
As with any other service, you are paying the artist to do something you cannot. If you feel your artistic creativity is better or you have a specific pose/scene in mind, then you pay a bit less for the artist to not have to come up with something on their own for you.
This leads us into Patreon. A lot of people think Patreon is somehow unfair, that because the art is already being produced, the public is entitled to view it for free. First of all, no; get your entitled asses in line - art takes work; hours upon hours of work not only in production but in practice, in experimentation, in learning new tools and programs and not least of all HUGE expenses in paying for tablets and computers capable of running art programs.
The average person whining, "But art should be available for FREE! Charging for it is just so soulless!" has no idea what goes into an average artists's production. Let's say they've been drawing for 4 years professionally. Over those 4 years that artist had to buy probably 2 tablets at around $150 each (figuring conservatively for high-end, long-lasting digital tablets with 1024 levels of pressure sensitivity - NOT the cintiqs that cost THOUSANDS or the Intuos 'standard' tablets that cost between $300-$500). Pen nibs cost around $10 a box and last maybe 6-10 months if you draw frequently. Then there's a good, sturdy worktable which can be around $50 if you find one at a thrift store you like or buy one from Walmart. Plus a $1200 or so computer that can run all the basics like Photoshop, Paint Tool SAI, and OBS (for livestreams!).
That's on the low scale for most of the artists who are using Patreon - these guys are often using the big Cintiq display tablets and pay $15 a month ($180 per year) for Photoshop. Plus there's all kinds of brush packs, art classes/workgroups, and webinars you need in order to keep up with the technology in question. So we're already at around $2k after tax on the low end for an artist's yearly costs in order to produce the quality of artwork that commissioners so frequently take for granted as just being "talent" or "luck".
Now let's look at what enables artists to produce the quantity of work that people expect. Newsflash: most of them cannot live off of their art wages, because of the deflation of the dollar as it relates to furry art. In the graphic design world, 8 hours' worth of drawing time is worth approximately $1200. In the furry world, an artist might be lucky to get $100 for a piece of the same quality.
However, despite the community's lack of support, these artists still need to pay bills and feed themselves. Most of us work full time jobs and do art on the side, or live with spouses/family that supplement our art wages to keep us from starving to death.
Check out my monthly budget:
Rent: $450/month
Power: $60/month
Internet: $50/month
Food: $100/month
Pet expenses: ~$150/month (food, toys, medication, and various grooming/vet costs)
Total: $810
Keep in mind that the first four things are split either two or three ways because I live with two other people. I'd be paying even MORE if I lived alone.
These numbers regularly go up for various things, like extreme heat or extreme cold, one of my animals getting sick or needing other vet care, and includes NOTHING as far as entertainment goes at all. Keep in mind I don't have half the expenses that most people do - no kids, no mortgage, no car, no insurance.
I make approximately $35 per commission. One $35 commission would take me approximately 4 hours to complete, which means I'm just barely making minimum wage for my state at $8.75/hour. That means I would need to be making and completing at least 23 commissions at $35 per commission in order to cover JUST my living expenses...figuring in absolutely nothing for entertainment, social activity, romantic outings with carrotwolf, or random expenses like birthday gifts or even buying art for myself.
So the average artist is hardly making enough to survive off his or her art. Patreon provides a way for them to produce art on their own schedules, allowing them to work full-time and provide themselves and their families with a comfortable, healthy lifestyle.
"But I should be able to view their art for free," many people complain. "It's not art if it's pay-per-view! That's not what art is about! I shouldn't have to pay in order to look at something that already exists, that isn't my personal character, and it's just taking advantage of fans!"
Well, unfortunately, you're not entitled to a single goddamn thing.
I've even heard people make the argument that "patreon art is taking advantage of people's sex drives and desires". The fact of the matter, is there is PLENTY of erotic and non-erotic art available to satisfy anybody. Hell, every minute someone uploads something new to FA - go refresh the front page a few times!
But when you're not compensating anybody for their work, you do not get to make demands or claims to entitlement. When you pay for Patreon artists, you are paying to support an artist that you particularly enjoy seeing work from to continue creating art. If an artist produces 25% of their art for free and the other 75% is pay-to-view, they are already providing 25% of their content for free...which often means they're doing hours' worth of hard work completely for free to provide YOU with the art that you enjoy for about two minutes before moving on to the next picture.
How exactly is this unfair to the average commissioner/art-appreciator, again?
I guess the point I'm trying to make with this long-winded, irritated journal is that while it's fun and rewarding in other ways to provide the community with free and cheap art, it's really not a successful business model or something that we can make a living off of doing. By getting self-righteous and angry about artists who raise their prices to minimum wage or above, or take advantage of the pay-to-view models available through Patreon and Kickstarter, you are making yourself out to be a self-entitled, pretentious asshat who really deserves none of the art you're demanding to see.
And if your argument boils down to "Well, I want it and can't pay for it and that's not fair", guess what - that's how we artists feel every day when we want to go out for a nice dinner, go to the movies, attend an event, travel to visit family and friends, or go to college/university. The only way you can get what you want is to work for it. Get a job and stop demanding special treatment from the furry community.
We've given you more than enough for free.
I have literally posted similar journals to your own on previous occasions:
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/5965403/
Absolutely this.
I'm not a professional artist (not by a LONG shot xD) And even my blood boils when I see people whining and complaining about YCH's.
Granted for me, it can get a little annoying to see about 1/3-1/2 of my submissions in my inbox are YCH's. But that annoyance quickly goes out the window when I realize WHY artists do them. I also see YCH's as a way for artists who normally do not like taking commissions to be able to profit more of their work-they choose the pictures content, all they have to do is fill in the blanks with characters.
As far as Patreon, It gives artists the chance to make a stable-ish income base on a monthly basis to continue their work. I know a few artists that can live off of this...others, it can barely pay for supplies. But I have yet to see a negative side to Patreon at all. Plus for someone like me who wants to learn more about art, there are a lot of artists who post WIP videos and tutorials on their Patreons for certain tiers, and in exchange for a little cash each month, I get access to several very well-made videos and things to help me develop. Plus, the prospect of people paying more for say access to WIP videos, tutorials, or even the PSD/SAI files themselves gives the artist a little bit of an incentive to put time into them. "Hey, people like this and are paying for this...let's do that yeah."
People will always find something to bitch about when it comes to what artists "should" and "should not" be doing. I swear, I don't know what half of these people would do if they couldn't find something to whine about xD.
Like I say, seeing new YCH's pop up only annoys me if I know that there's a waiting list already in place, otherwise I've no problem with them, they're a valid method, they just make me think. "The time spent drawing this pose could've been put into one of the commissions still owed" so I irk myself >.>;;
I do very much agree with your post, but I can't find this number anywhere proving this statement. Could you demonstrate an instance?
80,000/12 = $6700 per month
6700/8 = $1300 per day
Assuming the individual in question is working a full 8 hour day, that would put the net worth (including a couple of paid breaks) of a full 8 hours of work at around $1200.
That's a lot more than I've ever heard any graphic designer make. Good to see master level designers getting paid well.
i haven't personally had any problems doing YCHs.. but i haven't even tried Patreon because i'm afraid of getting screamed at, just by seeing what happens to other people.
are
perfect
For some people, the novelty of owning something that was created by their favorite artist is more important than quality, and if the artist feels that 1 hour of their busy schedule is worth $60 (common for artists that work for big paysites, who spend a LOT of time struggling to plan, write, and draw their material, often on a salary comparable to an average fast food worker) then why shouldn't they charge accordingly?
Aside from that, just like paying a thousand bucks for an illegible scribble on a $5 Walmart football because the signature belongs to your favorite player, a lot of this "overpriced" art is priced for sentimental value, not artistic value. There's a big difference.