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IMVU Clarification Post
10 years ago
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Journal Start
Q: I heard/read IMVU has the right to repost my content and use it however they want?
A: "Fur Affinity is governed by the site's terms of use, not Google's, Apple's or IMVU's." - IMVU
Rest assured, IMVU is *NOT* taking FA content, redistributing it, reposting it, using it in-game, etc. It's your content. Only FA has the right to show it if you upload it to the site. No one else.
1) IMVU's policies do not govern content posted/shared/sold on FA
2) IMVU does not have any rights to or will take a cut from content posted on FA
3) IMVU has not been given any user information from FA
This journal will be updated with additional Q/As later to address specific concerns.
A: "Fur Affinity is governed by the site's terms of use, not Google's, Apple's or IMVU's." - IMVU
Rest assured, IMVU is *NOT* taking FA content, redistributing it, reposting it, using it in-game, etc. It's your content. Only FA has the right to show it if you upload it to the site. No one else.
1) IMVU's policies do not govern content posted/shared/sold on FA
2) IMVU does not have any rights to or will take a cut from content posted on FA
3) IMVU has not been given any user information from FA
This journal will be updated with additional Q/As later to address specific concerns.
I TIED HIM UP IN MY CLOSET!!! ...
nice first comment (again)
Psst, Reane, hide my binoculars.
(also, lovely Icon!)
Well, alright, alright! I love stalking people.
Oh, oh, oh! I know, right?! Boyfriend got it for me, and I believe an user called Seira drew it.
We should take this conversation to notes x3
(He's gonna upload a matching icon when he comes back in the weekend.
what a beautiful day this is
Seriously, someone throw some holy water on that thing or something, it's terrifying!
dildos.
that's awesome! most people don't believe me that Dildo really is a place in Newfoundland and Labrador.
Some say this Dildo warrior is next to the legendary Okie
lmfao
liek if yo cry evrytiem...
but really... I lol'd XD
but the hero Furaffinity deserves.
*gives you the Nobel Prize*
Admins
Mods
Site code of conduct (Admins/mods/users/third parties)
Day to day running
Ie. what the heck they were doing with the site, upgrades and what they were spending the donated money on ect.
So yes. Just a little unimpressed with this whole.. semi-translucent transparency
or something like that
(but I totally agree with you here)
I'm a programmer myself and given up hope that anything would improve here. Or they let people suggest changes.
<?php die("#foreveralone"); ?>
The information was eventually relayed yet it wasn't necessarily their obligation to. Right now, sense your 'staying here because here's where the traffic is', it means your taking advantage of other people's hard work (the volunteers the run this place), to make a profit or connections that you use. No fees. No subscriptions. You just have to be patient, and you get what you paid for.
I suppose art theft is something that will be ever-present. My main issue was that I had heard on SF people were taking art and putting it on t-shirts, and making a profit. I suppose that could indeed happen anywhere, but it was the main thing that concerned me. Regardless, I am grateful for the feedback I am getting.
Is that really a plus, for a furry site?
1). The postal service is by no means a monopoly. Private mail carriers and couriers (such as modern-day UPS and FedEx) have existed since before the founding of the Republic. A monopoly means no competing enterprises are allowed at all. One legal competitor, and *poof* monopoly does not apply.
2). The US Postal Service is constrained in ways that no other government agency or private business is. It is simultaneously expected to be a self-supporting agency as a private business would be, yet it is bound and obligated by US laws in ways that no private business would be.
2A). The US Postal Service is forbidden by law to raise the price of postage by anything more than the rate of inflation. This is simply inadequate to the market demands. A private competitor can adjust their prices as they see fit.
2B). The US Postal Service is required by law to fully fund all of its employee pensions for 75 years into the future. This is an enormously burdensome expenditure of capital that absolutely no private competitor comes even close to matching.
2C). As a government agency, the US Postal Service is prevented by law from laying off federal civil service employees. During the late 80s and early 90s, before the advent of the internet, the US Postal Service saw a dramatic expansion of personnel to accommodate increases in bulk mailing that occurred from relaxation of credit laws and rules. With the advent of the internet this demand generated by bulk mail evaporated almost over night, but the Postal Service could not downsize its labor force with the drop in demand, as any private business would.
2D). It is extremely difficult to fire federal union employees, even ones who are performing poorly. The Postal Service is so rampant with unionized employees that under-perform, that non-union workers from temporary agencies are brought in, and paid minimum wage with no benefits to pick-up the slack. It's an absolute travesty that no private business would have to endure.
2E). The Postal Service has hours of operation set by law. It cannot reduce or increase business hours as the market demands.
If the Postal Service were allowed to either operate as any other private business, or be funded as any other government agency, it wouldn't be in such trouble. It's been set-up for failure by being expected to operate under the constraints of both.
so electric utilities ? what used to be AT&T? (phone services boomed after it lost monopoly....unless you like rotary dial land lines) robert fulton's ferries which were government subsidized and lost money every year (while vanderbuilt made a fortune?) how bout the railroads which were given huge tracks of land (while James Hill refused subsidies and did logical things like make the shortest routes possible - the subsidized ones, being paid by the mile and given land rights made tortuous routes -- most went under in the next financial crisis, but their owners raked in fortunes, while Hill's company flourished --and we're still subsidizing amtrak which is losing money and forces commerical trains to wait for them)
so a lot of these monopolies people have to sue to infringe on them and most restrict other people's access...fedex cant use your mailbox either...unfortunately its gets left on your doorstep where someone can steal it, being plainly visible
They really do need to get rid of the workers who cannot work though or the ones who have been gone for over a year and are still somehow considered employees there so they can hire more carriers. It is a mess.
Thank you for the rest of the information, but wanted to clarify that the older workers (my dad has 37 years in) are still pulling the bulk of the workload and ridiculous hours to cover the mess and short staff from the unionized workers you talk about that are protected despite some not working for sometimes months or even years /:
Post office workers deserve respect for working their butts off. They might sometimes get bit my dogs and continue their shifts, slip on ice and get up and continue their shift, work through tornado warnings, walk their routes in sleet, lightning storms, pouring rain, and everyone gets their mail. It may not always be on time, but they do their best.
monopolies have ONLY occurred by government grant...read your history...from the charters that made trading companies (which us americans violated by smuggling rampantly) to vanderbuilt making his own ferries which were profitable, bearing the flag as they drove into new york harbor, new jersey is free, to violate the fulton monopoly granted him by that state, which was losing money and vanderbuilt made tons of money...which name now do you know for being rich?
yah research morgan....its all government and railroad money he made...and he founded the federal exchange...the biggest scam of all...money which only the government can print and states...somehow this crazy bank is printing AND charging us interest for using? and in control of interests rates..wow...
BUT... the United States Postal Service is NOT losing money, and is NOT losing to companies like USP or FedEx. UPS and FedEx can not legally send 'mail'. they can 'ship' things, like packages and such, but they can not legally transport 'mail' such as letters or official documents. They HAVE to go through the USPS. That's why Stamps are considered a type of 'currency'. If you're caught counterfeiting stamps, its just as much jail time and fines as making fake money. So, since letters and important documents are mailed on a daily basis, no... they are not losing money, and will not 'lose out' to FedEx or UPS.
Oh, and as another small point: USPS has cheaper shipping rate than UPS or FedEx. More packages are shipped via USPS than either FedEx or UPS combined. Its just simply cheaper to do so with USPS. And the USPS is the only service to offer a 'flat rate' shipping method which is extremely popular, specifically with ebay and such. I know for a fact that whenever i've sold anything on ebay, i ALWAYS get asked to use USPS because its cheaper. 14 bucks to ship an item of any weight as long as it fits in the box, is soooooo much cheaper than shipping an item with the same weight via FedEx or UPS. Sure you could ship larger items and such, but that still doesn't change the fact that more weight = higher price. Besides, even USPS weight based shipping is usually a good couple dollars cheaper.
Could I not what? Tell the truth? Fuck that. And fuck you for suggesting I lie.
It's also a fact that FA has policies against this kind of content and many users over on InkBunny fled from here to there because of this.
I don't see how it's an ad hominem to state this.
you could have predicted microsoft would dominate everything back in the 90s....how did that turn out?
Also, I could totally be wrong about this, but I'm pretty sure sense FA's staff is volunteer base, that the money goes to site hardware (which purchases and repairs are made public). IE: Non-for profit. I believe that makes it not really a true business, but more or less falls onto the realm of charity organization. But again, I'm just thinking out loud here.
Not a single person is forcing you to come here or use the services. If you don't like it here, then go pay for a subscription at DeviantArt and let those Nazi's run your gallery.
TL;DR - Quit being greedy and thinking the world owes you things. They don't. Don't like it here, leave. You don't pay for anything here anyways, so your technically not doing business here like you claimed. :)
What people are afraid of is if the market place lays claim to the content hosted within it
I... I don't. I've never made it to the end.
O:
>->/
To put it short, "Nothing's changing. FA's just gonna be better performance wise, thanks to the support and investment from IMVU."
Thanks, anyway.
I missed the news on this what deal was there? :o
He might have said that a few more ads will be placed on FA, mostly containing IMVU-served ads, but how many people use adblocker? A lot.
then again, turning a profit on furries seems pointless since a majority of us seem to complain about Financial Issues it seems these days. I dought heavily that anyone would be ballsy enough to try and charge furries for a few improvements to a site.
Only time will tell.
I think it's only a matter of time before we get content restrictions or other rules-meddling by IMVU (who have no interest in furry stuff other than the contents of our wallets. Keep that in mind.)
FA is now beholden to IMVU, and i doubt FA will be in any position to argue if IMVU wants then to change something. And they will.
*Claps loudly* Someone said it.
Dragoneer's assurances, no matter how earnest, are not legally binding. If the quoted text is the exact wording in the policy, then it grants very broad rights over our content to IMVU. If they don't mean to use it that way, then it should be worded in a more limiting fashion.
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/online/imvu.html
And looking at some quick googles of IMVU's customer service..well..I don't think we're in good hands.
Then again, I haven't felt we've been in good hands for a decade now, so meh.
for a license change they would almost certainly need you to agree to the change. In a case like that even notification would not likely be enough if it went to court
As they now own FA, I'd like to know what prevents them from changing their minds in the future. And if they're obligated to inform anyone if and when they do.
As for the ownership, the TOS can't just override copyright.
Perhaps, but things are...interesting now.
Enjoy reading.
I agree with this. Reviews can be helpful, but they should always be taken with a grain of salt. Someone else might have a great or terrible experience with a company, but it doesn't mean you'll have the same experience.
on top of that both Dragoneer and IMVU have made it a point to let everyone know the only thing they are going to change is random adds from the IMVU database. However, if they actually hold true to the terms of the buyout obviously have yet to be seen. We are already seeing an influx of users online. Usually peaks at around 15,500 or so for this time of day and right now as I type this it's almost at 18,000. Those new servers could have come in handy for this.
This does not help your side of the argument at all.
Therefore, I think that all this bitching and moaning is more or less pointless. Wait and see what happens, and if bad things do happen, then you have reason to panic. I mean, FA has been owned by IMVU for two months now, and nothing bad has materialized. While this doesn't guarantee they won't change things to the detriment of FA users, it should be proof enough that they're not out to destroy the site, ban adult art, and generally render their purchase of it pointless.
IMVU's reputation is "can't be trusted". Do the math.
Just in experience of seeing it happen on other sites. (this could take years to go down the timeline, but that is the usual route.)
woops. Too late.
https://twitter.com/DanzaDragon/sta.....43224744587264
This is a completely false rumor. Don't spread it more.
brought to you by IMVU.
One of the many VIP benefits
ONLY FOR ONE HOUR!!!!!
Anywho, I shall watch this and see how it goes down.
Or what IMVU is getting out of this deal (And, no, "a new community to interact with" isn't an acceptable answer.)
Of all the questionable decisions that have been made regarding this site, I think this one is the worst...
1.) Himself
2.) Money
The furry community is not a thing he even gives one fuck about.
To prevent any replies of "Well, GTFO then" allow me to state that I only have an FA account to watch a couple of artists. I prefer to keep most of my content elsewhere.
Hell, I would have tossed an offer his way if he had said he was looking to sell the site.
I get the impression that it just does not matter anymore. Make your jokes that he has never cared, but I think one controversy after another has just led Neer to not trying anymore. We can complain, but unless we're popular and have money to throw at him to "fund changes", we don't matter.
Linking us to the 'terms of sale' would have been a good step towards this 'transparency' thing, instead of users having to hunt them down and possibly misinterpret things.
but that's just my two cents.
That is what ownership means. Even if you currently have these statements, and even if it's true, nothing stops them from saying we want to do this now and going over ya head.
I do so hope his is a April fools joke run up. Because if its not me thinks our wise owner should not show there faces anywhere anytime soon. Lot's of angry people with torches and pitchforks about.
'That wasn't part of the deal!'
"Pray I don't alter it any further"
and dragoneer has confirmed this
Quick, everybody register your work with your respective country's copyright offices!
Wait, you're furries. You know nothing about copyright law.
Shit.
Feel free to ask them yourself tho'.
It looks like a "How did you know" "You just told me" kinda incident.
He's more like "how did you get that information" than "that's not on page 9 pfft"
Interesting.
"FA retains full rights to modify or change the terms set forth within this document at any time. Any changes will be posted publicly via news updates and/or administrative notices. Any and all changes made to this document become retroactive."
Retroactive-having application to or effect on things done prior to its enactment: a retroactive law
-IMVU must obtain the rights to use your work FROM YOU, THE COPYRIGHT HOLDER, or it is infringing upon your copyright.
-Nothing Dragoneer can say or has agreed to in paperwork trumps the above point.
-FurAffinity's ToS is a list of rules used to govern the site. It is not a legally binding agreement and does not override any country's copyright laws. It is a set of "house rules" for declaring what they will host on FurAffinity in terms of behavior and content.
-Unless you sign a release of your work to be used, for EVERY piece of work to be used, by a third-party entity, then any use of said pieces of submitted content is copyright infringement.
https://twitter.com/DanzaDragon/sta.....43224744587264
This is a completely false rumor. Don't spread it more.
According to him the site after you factor in all of the bandwidth use and other services, excluding hardware costs, the site costs around $30K a year to run. I haven't verified that of course but given the sheer amount of data a multimedia driven website this large would generate it makes sense especially with how greedy hosting providers tend to get with bandwidth.
But getting back on track to the topic, apparently much of his paychecks were going toward supporting the site. So with the job loss naturally it makes sense then to sell an asset you have, which for him was this website, except as part of the deal he's now basically an employee. Obviously there are still questions as to why it happened this way and I still have my concerns where there's a corporation involved simply because of how one operates. Even a generally liberal company like Amazon royally screws people over both internally and externally. Amazon did away with a lot of discount programs, incentives, special deals and seems more focused on pushing Amazon Prime membership. Deals that used to be free are now thrown in as part of that $99 a year membership (it used to be $79 a year). Simply put even the most well intentioned companies will bite.
In any event, I understand why he resorted to a sale though.
And it begs the question a few people have been asking;if FA is a sink hole of money, then why would a company buy it without plans to change it?
hell I'm still SUPER uneasy about all this.
>takes forever for a page to load
WAY TO GO
Want to get a commission you've been saving up for a long time? The artist you want to commission only opens once a year?
TOO BAD!
Read these 900 journals about people leaving!
Beyond that, it puts a real hamper on people who have an existing social network in place - some people disappear to site A, some to site B. And still worse, those who make a living off providing art to folks are really getting the shaft by the audiences being spread and ran off. :(
its a miracle
This
I still don't see how it warrants him "selling out the fandom" or making him a traitor.. lol it's not like FA is the mecca of furries or anything as much as some people treat it like it is.
And watermarks are a bandaid on a bullet hole anyway. They can be cropped out or edited away if you're patient enough. For writers like myself, it's downright trivial to steal credit for work.
I've been tolerant and supportive or at least indifferent to all of the managerial screwups so far, but this disturbs the hell out of me.
I just really, really want to know, what exactly does IMVU want with this site? If not the content, then what?? I'm certain there will be more to it than just having a dumb ad on the bottom of the page, I just genuinely want to see a clear plan from both of them of what exactly this merger means.
If shit hits the fan the worst case scenario is there ends up a genuine mass exodus to other furry sites such as SoFurry or possibly a new "FA" winds up being taken up by someone in the fandom that can afford the start up costs. So FA can crumble and burn but the fandom itself will be fine. After all it survived the fall of Furnation to which FA stepped in and provided a solution for. If FA falls then history will simply repeat itself. We'll be fine.
As for copyrighted works well I'm not sure who is willing to go to court over furry porn and make that a public fiasco but given the sheer amount of legal text generally required to cover your ass legally, it makes sense for them to cover asses by if promoting the website (such as via screenshots) that someone cannot simply scream and file a lawsuit over it. Lawsuits cost a lot of time and money to prepare for which equals lost revenue especially with the laymen interpretation of copyright law often being incorrect.
So yeah.. I'm nervous as hell but it's not as if I'm a sort of shareholder of the business end of the site. There are free alternatives that will simply grow larger if FA fails in the end. Operating on multiple art sites makes sense since one shouldn't put all of their eggs in one basket.
By doing this and giving IMVU FA, he’s given them your data.
Every content creator is at risk.
As followed:
"IMVU reserves the right to redistribute content that has been uploaded to FurAffinity as agreed upon in page 9 of the terms of sale"
And, in the Submission Agreement:
"FA retains full rights to modify or change the terms set forth within this document at any time. Any changes will be posted publicly via news updates and/or administrative notices. Any and all changes made to this document become retroactive."
IMVU can monetize any artwork posted from here on out.
https://twitter.com/DanzaDragon/sta.....45431707652096
Dragoneer said there is something like the "re-broadcast rights" if they take a screenshot and post it and it has somebody's icon or image in it.
http://puu.sh/gH4x8/6608bca147.png
Then someone read that as a clear confirmation of the authenticity of the made up page 9 snippet and drama and conspiracy theories arose of sneakily edited posts that formerly showed the mysterious "page 9" that had accidentally been posted despite wanting to keep it secret but then had it removed to hide the evil truth or something.
Maybe page 9 will become a new meme soon.
This is exactly like Tencent and Riot Games. When you hear League of Legends you never hear about Tencent (the OWNERS of the game).
"IMVU reserves the right to redistribute content that has been uploaded to FurAffinity as agreed upon in page 9 of the terms of sale"
The person who first typed those words was NOT copying them from the terms of sale, from FA's tos or from anywhere. DanzaDragon made them up as a "Wouldn't this be horrible if they said something like this" comment on a journal of his, people took him out of context, and have since been spreading it far and wide. Go to his Twitter, where he confirms this in several posts. https://twitter.com/DanzaDragon/sta.....43224744587264
This is a completely false rumor. Please don't spread it more. :)
There is a big difference between freedom of information and roswell!
want my brain cells back.
Considering that IMVU is a corporation, and that corporations have control over their employees, I would like to ask whether it matters or not if Neer has control over FA since IMVU will simply operate through him.
IMVU just has the luxury to operate through Neer and avoid unnecessary drama. But I am sure that if there would be something IMVU doesn't like about the website and Neer doesn't fix it, consequences will adhere (and it will not stop here!)
Am I wrong to assume this? I would love a clarification.
Also, I would like to see IMVU's reaction when they discover they brought inside their family a community that glorifies art of zoophilia and other extremophilia. I am not going to criticize these forms of promiscuous deviancy now, but considering that IMVU is a public corporation, how would they like this image of being associated to such art?
Also IMVU is not a public corporation. I mean, they're in the public, but 'public' usually means a stock and shareholders. It's a private company.
I find it funny Neer is making all these promises about what will and won't happen when he technically isn't ultimately in charge of what IMVU decides to do. He said they had a written agreement they'd only change FA for the better, but "better" is a very loose term, (better for them and how they run FA, better for FA making finances, better for FA's income etc) and one IMVU could take advantage of if they so chose.
> www.furaffinity.net/journal/6588324/#cid:44892881
Him admitting he's in charge of the site, but they're the owners
>www.furaffinity.net/journal/6588324/#cid:44893148
Dragoneer himself admitting they can override him if they see fit.
>https://forums.furaffinity.net/thre.....=1#post5109486
Dragoneer saying he had a written agreement that FA would ONLY be changed "for the better"
So long as they're not taking art for prints or things like that, people should be okay with it.
But if I suddenly can't access basic functions without paying for them, then I'll either do without or leave. I like my furry art free, thank you. I'll pay for it when I want my own characters drawn.
That said... I would like to have some links to go with your accusations of IMVU's policies. I only flirted with their stuff once, way back when, so I don't know what kind of stuff they pull. I would like to avoid judging them until I have some more facts to go on. I need more data, though I'll still probably cover my bases in case the worse happens. No sense in being foolish.
Also, none of these are official links (but google pulls up a lot of results, so I thought it'd be best to just link you the search): https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#.....imvu%20malware
Apparently IMVU had a lot of badly coded things, or never had any security and was rife with viruses and malicious malware embedded in many of their downloads (even paid stuff) that users would get. And this is a site that's been in "beta testing" for eight years, and they still had all this going on just last year? I'd never heard of IMVU until now, but reading up on history and asking IMVU users here on FA about it, I can tell you that I don't exactly want anything to do with their site.
That said, IMVU claims to keep FA and IMVU stuff separate. But IMVU ultimately owns FA now, not Dragoneer, and can trump his thoughts on the direction it should go since they're his boss and he's their employee. If Neer is to be believed from previous statements, FA does not make him much money. Business wise, it does not make any sense why a company would buy a site that is not thriving. You buy assets to make money off of them, and FA doesn't exactly make money, so why did IMVU buy them? They already had adspace, and it'd be much cheaper to buy than purchasing a site. I'm trying to believe they just want to upgrade FA in hopes that it means better money for them, but that seems very unlikely and doesn't make sense. The thing that makes more sense is they put extra paid for features on FA. I'm just very wary of this whole thing. I'm not going to bail, ofc; I like FA. I don't like the way it's run, all its holes, or a million other things, but it is a good place to share content and I love the community and watchers and fanbase I have here and don't want to abandon that. I'd only leave if a bunch of shit started happening that caused people to leave or the site broke, and I don't want that. It's a game of wait and see, and I truly hope that I and the hundreds of other worried users are just worried for naught.
I just hope someone with some gorramn sense makes this work. And if it doesn't? Well, I'm set up elsewhere anyway. Let's hope the alternate sites don't get bogged down from the massive flood.
Also, you have yet to categorically state the clause doesn't exist. You've simply re-iterated your interpretation. Please categorically deny the existence of the clause and post the terms of sale.
Instead of it being a celebrated growth and wistful looking towards the future, it's instead muddled with drama and transparency because it happened months ago and nobody told anybody anything.
If it was a good thing it would have been mentioned immediately after completion.
It was not hinted it, it wasn't teased, it was literally "this is how it is now!"
I don't see how anyone can continue trusting this site.
By doing this and giving IMVU FA, he’s given them your data.
Every content creator is at risk.
As followed:
"IMVU reserves the right to redistribute content that has been uploaded to FurAffinity as agreed upon in page 9 of the terms of sale"
And, in the Submission Agreement:
"FA retains full rights to modify or change the terms set forth within this document at any time. Any changes will be posted publicly via news updates and/or administrative notices. Any and all changes made to this document become retroactive."
IMVU can monetize any artwork posted from here on out.
"Any changes will be posted publicly via news updates and/or administrative notices. "
I mean staying and not knowing works too do whatever you want lol.
This whole fiasco is certainly very dodgy and there are things that need to be answered for and clarified, but what you just typed there is fear-mongering.
I work for IMVU, and I can tell you how many employees off IMVU have access to the site. It's one person: me.
"FA retains full rights to modify or change the terms set forth within this document at any time. Any changes will be posted publicly via news updates and/or administrative notices. Any and all changes made to this document become retroactive."
IMVU can monetize any artwork posted from here on out.
Any other site that has ads on it does the same thing. We have zero intention of profiting off your work. That would be stupid, and go against the goal of making FA grow and be a better site.
Basically, how long have you had this lined up?
Because things like this don't exactly happen overnight.
Sure seems fishy that you'd have an emergency fundraiser this close, timewise, to the site being bought out.
Of course, now that mama corporate's nookie's supplying your funding, it's time to ask the question again.
Where'd the money go?
I'm fairly certain that for this deal to have gone down, there was some kind of contractual agreement drafted and parties signed off on it.
I'd be interested in seeing this, and call it a hunch, but I don't think they would force you into non-disclosure of said documentation, lest something is amiss with this deal.
In blunt: Papers, please.
That being said, an easy way to calm the rage would be to show us page 9 of the agreement. And then send them my way if they get confused by what they read.
Can we say goodbye to any code improvements?
Please stop lying.
I was going to be patient with you and wait quietly.
I was maybe even going to return to this site when I saw growth.
But you sold it off to IMVU, because you're an employee there.
For some odd reason, after all of the shady history IMVU had since day 1, you decided fuck it, this is a good idea!
IMVU is a company that does not care. IMVU will not abide by its own rules, it will not listen to users.
It's in it for the money, Dragoneer.
It does not matter if only you have access to the site, I guarantee you they will find a way in.
Once you signed that deal, you are now a part of them. You are their property.
You wouldn't need ads if you listened to your users and added features they wanted.
Surely if they saw sympathy in you, growth in your site, among other things, they would donate.
You had your chance to make the site better and you blew it.
I told you what was wrong with the site. I gave you suggestions, even.
I told you to ignore the drama. Come out and tell the truth, do the right thing.
But no, you had to do it in secret, because people would lash out.
You're right, it's your site, you can do what you want with it.
But if you care so much about it, you wouldn't let it rot and suffer.
If you cared about your users, you wouldn't blow off their problems in favor of shiny things.
If you cared about how things were handled, you would hire more than 12 competent admins for a multi-million-user site.
If you wanted us to support you, you would have worked with us and given us features to make the site nicer.
This is what sites like SoFurry and Inkbunny have against yours.
I know their admins. They listen to their users, they're selfless.
And despite their flaws, they know how to run, fund, and care for a site.
If these are the last words I type on this site, I hope I scratched you.
I hope these words scathe you and embed themselves in your mind.
We keep this site afloat, and you not only do nothing for us in return, but you turn us away, sell us to a company that wants money.
I'm waiting.
just sayin' :P
You have a solid case until FA makes a ToS page explaining that you agree to the use of your work in specific ways FOR EACH AND EVERY PIECE YOU SUBMIT AFTERWARDS.
Time to grow up and read the ToS Wall of Doom and learn some copyright law.
"4. Data Use, User Created Content, and Privacy
4.1 - When you upload content to Fur Affinity via our services, you grant us a non-exclusive, worldwide, royalty-free, sublicensable, transferable right and license to use, host, store, cache, reproduce, publish, display (publicly or otherwise), perform (publicly or otherwise), distribute, transmit, modify, adapt, and create derivative works of, that content. "
this phasing allows them to do whatever they would like with your artwork including selling off the reproduction rights to others. This wording is fairly common, and very few companies have taken advantage of it
"These permissions are purely for the limited purposes of allowing us to provide our services in accordance with their functionality (hosting and display), improve them, and develop new services. These permissions do not transfer the rights of your content or allow us to create any deviations of that content outside the aforementioned purposes."
this line here limits the scope of what they can do, but as i recall it has not been in every version of the TOS. even though i dont think FA's wording indicates that they can/will sell your works its important to note that its not outside of the realm of possibility. take for example this older case of when instagram had similar language. they eventually backed away from it, not because of the legality of it, but because of public outcry.
http://www.cnet.com/news/instagram-.....l-your-photos/
its not the same as putting a sign up in front of your house for several reasons. 1 you have to consent to the TOS to sign up. 2 the wording on the sign is vauge, the wording on the TOS is clear, the only part of it that comes off as murky is the part where they place limitations on how they will use your work. 3 there is a difference in how cases are viewed and handled that involve bodily harm, vs physical damages to property, vs intellectual property rights. 4 although there was a case back in 1997 (i think, it might have been 98) that ruled that people must be notified about changes to the terms of service and accept them in order for the changes to be legally binding, but later cases have also ruled the other way. but all they have to do is something as simple as sending out a mass email for it to be legally binding under the previously mentioned case.
at the end of the day though its up to the individual artists to decide what kind of risk they want to take on with their work. most people on here would not have the necessary funds to fight a prolonged legal battle or would want to take on the stress of doing such. its much easier to scrub your work from the site and wait and see what kind of people the new owners turn out to be.
This kind of language is used all the time when you are selling the rights to a work of art.
I would show proof of my copyright to the judge. My lawyer would demand to see the contract I had signed to release my rights to the site in the way reflected by the ToS. The FA legal team will explain that they do not have said contract, but will point to the site's ToS that explains that me, by using the site, willingly forfeit my rights as agreed upon once and only once during my registration. My lawyer will ask to see the ToS as it was when I joined 3 years ago. The FA legal team will explain that the changes were made and apply retroactively as it is updated by their whim. A laugh track will play in the court as I win the case due to the doctrine of unconscionability, as slipping in whatever absurd violations of copyright law into a site's ToS at a later time past the original agreement does not constitute as a legally binding release of licensing rights.
I don't doubt that Dragoneer may think that he has these rights, but this wouldn't be the first thing he's been wrong about. He doesn't have that right, whether he thinks and says he does or not.
if they did want to make an major changes to the TOS, all they would have to do is to create a page that appears the first time you try and login that makes you agree to the new changes and it would be legally binding. its worth noting too that there is such a page when you first register, so whatever was there when you signed up you have definitely agreed to.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/oliverh.....e-enforceable/
https://www.eff.org/wp/clicks-bind-.....-terms-service
its true that there are certain ways that this stuff has to be done in order to guarantee that it is enforceable, but to say flat out that terms of service, and changes to the terms of service, are not legally binding is incorrect.
And so far these quotes are just rumors without any evidence. =)
I looked for it as it first popped up in the forums and there was actually nothing.
THE NEW UPDATE IS COMING
BIG BROTHER LOVES YOU
BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES
User data.
IMVU is a company that's all about making profit with minimal effort.
You can bet your ass that data's going to be sold.
{sarcasm oh gosh I really honestly have no idea at this point}
Yeah.. not buying that. IMVU is getting more out of this.
Why should we even trust you?
I want to print this out and frame this.
I really hope in the future there will never be a cut in what i make just so it goes to IMVU or FA.
why in the hell?
....
Don't get any ideas there, 'Neer! :P
i dont see people raging on fb. people should check out what They do.
as listen to what you do when on phone calls to adjust advertisement and so on.
Basically what I make of it
I'm tired of all this...
Why not just leave it be, or fix any minor issues behind the scenes.
What we don't know, won't cause everyone to freak out or run away screaming.
There is likely business jargon preventing everything from being released right away
There very well could have been a non-disclosure agreement that just recently expired, allowing even this announcement.
Of course, higher up in-thread, I did ask for a copy of the paperwork that had been signed, if only to actually get some more eyes on what just happened to the site here.
I doubt it will be as drastic ss people think
Or... Something like that.
majority of the community
Nothing's even changing.
You're acting like they're making FA into an IMVU mirror site and they're not.
FA has been bought out, but it will REMAIN FURAFFINITY. Your content REMAINS YOUR CONTENT. Your website STAYS THE SAME.
There will be likely be more frequent IMVU ads where the normal ads are, but that's IT.
They have purchased FA and it is now part of the IMVU company - they are free to do whatever the fuck they want.
Plus, without actually seeing the terms of sale with very specific wording, its unwise to make assumptions.
If IMVU is planning on monetizing content I'd like to know so I can retire my content on here.
I don't want to fight tooth and nail over it when it's too late
BIG QUESTION is, for how long? I can see in a few months, FA isn't the FA we knew anymore, havin a Premium membership to being able upload stuff and so on...
....until did exactly that.
CALM THE FUCK DOWN.
Signed,
Common Sense.
YOU COULD HAVE PREVENTED THIS!
Sense hasn't been a Common item in ages. It is currently a Legendary drop that no one bothers farming for, because the drop rate is less than 0.0001%.
Signed,
Xial ♥
(But yes, people should calm their tits here. I agree.)
also, if you wanted a positive PR response honestly make some updates and then reveal that IMVU helped push them through with their big corporate dollars... you guys really need a public relations professional because y'all are chasing people away faster than you're gaining new people.
however, i hope everyone remembers that furaffinity is also a business. they take ad revenue, they take "donations" and they make sales. don't donate to a company for nothing. do NOT give a company money for nothing. everyone who donated really should've been given stock in the company. even a half of a percent or something, anything that a NORMAL company would do.
is furaffinity a nonprofit? how did you claim 10k in donations on your taxes? is furaffinity incorporated through ferrox art llc? is imvu going to be claiming FA on their taxes???
No one buys a website to sink money into it. They are a business, and an especially freemium type business from what people are saying. There's profit to garner here, more than a "we'll advertise each other!" because that would be a lot chepaer and accomplish the same thing. These aren't adding up, so people who don't get the drama? This is why we worry, because things don't make sense and because the new owners of FA can trump Dragoneer's decision anytime they want (he admitted that himself). So how long until what Dragoneer says won't happen does? He's not IN CONTROL anymore.
The largest part of governing Furry Culture, the largest outlet for the creative thought and expression in the Furry Fandom is now owned by someone who is NOT FURRY.
Get ready for Hot Topic to come knocking.
"Rest assured, IMVU is *NOT* taking FA content, redistributing it, reposting it, using it in-game, etc. It's your content. Only FA has the right to show it if you upload it to the site. No one else."
-Bullshit, they own it, they can do what they want with it. They can re-write FA's rules to reflect whatever they want.
1) IMVU's policies do not govern content posted/shared/sold on FA
- No but they will re-write the FA rules to reflect whatever they want.
2) IMVU does not have any rights to or will take a cut from content posted on FA
-Not take a cut? Why the hell did they buy it then? Guess where your "donations" are going to go now? Get ready for "FA Premium Content! just 9.99$ a month!"
3) IMVU has not been given any user information from FA
-Doesn't matter if they were given it. They can take it.
Time to leave FA.
While I don't own FA, FA is still my responsibility, just as it has been the past 10 years. The only thing that technically "changed" is that the people who signed the bills come under a different name. That, and I have a boss, and have to report to them and inform them of progress, make plans, meetings and commit to making the site better. Period.
https://forums.furaffinity.net/thre.....=1#post5109610
Our offer was detailed there, and had NOTHING that would be against the community, or for changing the community. We were going to keep Chase and Yourself with all control decisions, and we were wiling to back that up with proof in the pudding.
We were going to make a board that was responsible and answerable to the fandom.
You've sold us out to a corporate entity which may choose to be nice, or may choose to gut the place. You've left NO controls in place to prevent it, and you probably just took the highest bid.
--Trapa
On the first place i didnt even thought it would be possible that someone would offer to buy FA "just to shut it down"
never thought the site was well managed, but...
argh. i'm not even using furaff anymore. i don't think i'm still counting as a furry, always been vocal about FA's mistakes and neers but it feels weird if it became some kind of social network crap like what DA became.
Dude, do you even know what you're saying? The Fandom can't be 'sold'. A meeting ground for it can, but so long as people think that anthropomorphic animal-people look cool, guess what?
FURRY STILL EXISTS.
Take off your tinfoil hat. Furry existed WELL before FA; stop treating it like this is the only thing that makes it exist.
In short: it's akin to a pirate site reposting people's work without permission.
Someone on 8chan posted about how they hated the owner of FA and all that, and actually proved it by posting their ID on the backup site.
it's good to have a huge archive. when you post something online, it's meant to be seen. no longer like it? you wouldn't ask all your fans to delete a pic from their hard disks. that's the idea.
>Dragoneer
Okay
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bt8ugw5a1.....large.png?dl=0
Post this, Neer, and allllll the paaaiin goesss aawwwayyy.
Well, that just so happens to have links to a porn site :P
THANK YOU KINDLY for sharing this! ;3
The response to 'adult content' is a little vague though - there are a lot of different extremes within what the word 'adult' implies.
But, yeah, I'm fine with this. As long as FA stays as FA, which is what they're saying, I doing give a flying rat's rear end what they do.
"IMVU reserves the right to redistribute content that has been uploaded to FurAffinity as agreed upon in page 9 of the terms of sale"
This could mean that they could use someone's artwork without their knowledge, and make prints, or sell t-shirts, or mugs by claiming that they own it as they now own the website, which means an artist could be ripped off. As an artist, I wouldn't want this to happen, as it would be both against my TOS and like saying that I have absolutely no copyrights over my own work, which last I checked, I do.
I want further clarification on just HOW they wish to redistribute the artwork and for what means/purposes.
If it is being used to advertise FA, I could care less. If it's being used to generate revenue for the website and steal an artist's hard work? That I'm not okay with, especially as royalty fees are not discussed in the situation so the person that did they work gains nothing while the business gains revenue from it.
Please clarify this further.
I thought that shit died years ago.
Hell, I was 9 when I started mine and I haven't logged in for a while because it just got so cring-y.
1) IMVU's policies do not govern content posted/shared/sold on FA
2) IMVU does not have any rights to or will take a cut from content posted on FA
3) IMVU has not been given any user information from FA"
Proove it.
XD
I love to watch people getting eaten ;D
Well, last time I checked it was a plague on both machines AND humanity.
I really am shocked by this, and moreso shocked by the lack of attention to the ToS and contract signed by our one and only saviour of dragons.
Seriously...guys FA =/= the entirety of the fandom. If FA wasnt around or you got banned you wouldnt be ejected from the community so how can selling off a webite mean the sellout of a fandom? That is...holy crap...some of you guys take stuff too seriously when it comes to furry things.
But it makes me smile a little.
You will still have the fanrom with or without FA no matter how big a staple it is. Besides, either peeps will migrate elsewhere, or stay and deal. Either way...still furries.
Example, DA and Hot Topic...
i have my ideas on whats going to happen (the need to buy a premium card that last for maybe a week to upload adult art etc etc) but im just gonna sit by and watch what happens
strange how they say they bought FA to get more ads, yet they have ads already on the site
still seems suspicious but when hasnt FA done something shady?
oh well, back to huge dicks and herm dogs
Anywho, about the IMVU, I say don't complain until something bad actually happens.
But I have another question: If this change was made in January, when does this go officially into effect? Has it already been in effect and I didn't notice it?
You very much need to clarify the exact rights they have to use user submissions from this site.
Viva la flatface!
We're a bit skeptical, but we'll stick around for now.
I'm just going to sit back and see how things unfold, if the ship starts to burn, I guess I'll just jump ship and head on over to somewhere else.
Here's to hoping this change doesn't, in fact, kill FA
ZeniMax Online and Bethesda are both owned by ZeniMax Incorporated. They are entirely different dev studios.
That should be like question 1.
I've been a member there from 2007.
If they say so fine, but people use to lie.
That being said, it's going to suck major dick balls for the artist(s) that could get ripped off that way, but I'm sure after one incident like this, this site will be barren.
I guess it's just time to sit back and relax and enjoy the show. I mean, its not like we have any control over it.
Why IMVU, of all companies? Who the -hell- still uses it? Ohter than minors that beg to be cybered.
My question:
Will we still be able to post mature furry art?
There are absolutely no plans to remove mature/adult content from FA.
FA is IMVU's property now, and they really can do whatever they want with it.
It got them increased awareness of the My Little Pony show, but since they weren't gaining the revenue (I don't even remember Molestia being "offensive" as one of the reasons, just that they didn't want their character depicted like that by a popular artist) they didn't want it to be up. A lot of pony artists are safe, but if a popular enough anti-brony complains enough to Hasbro, they will ask to take down a popular blog/artist for using their characters in a way that does not postively reflect their company.
has FA been sold already?
Sure hope so, man...
In short, imvu never listens to their users. They don't care about them. And they are only out to make a buck. Also, if you try to email them asking for support, they give you an automated response 90% of the time which proves to you that they didn't even read what the heck you wrote in the first place.
Personally, I feel like this was a terrible move.
Also, if you think any promises any company makes after an acquisition are worth anything, you're delusional or just don't know how it works. FA's staff will do what IMVU tells them to do, because IMVU are their bosses now. Yes, this can and probably will include getting rid of porn. Yes, this can and probably will include integrating IMVU pay stuff into FA.
...dragoneer, i'm sorry. i didn't have a whole lot of trust in you to begin with [because of all the silliness that has happened over the recent year or so] - but that's all personal with you and the people you were involved with.
i didn't leave then, because while i think some of what was going on was totally problematic, it had little and/or nothing to do with me. [i still think it was morally reprehensible what you did, but...]
this, however, is different.
i make content. albeit VERY slowly, but that's what i do. [i'm referring to my written works here, not my youtube channel.]
you took THREE MONTHS to tell us that furaffinity changed hands. AFTER you told us you'd be more transparent.
you keep insisting that no matter what happens, you will retain "control" over how imvu deals with furaffinity, but i don't think you realize exactly how they might move you out of control by using contracts that they will set up in their favour.
so, with all that in mind, it's not possible to trust you at all. and our content - the stuff we make here - is certainly in danger of becoming imvu's property. [if it isn't already. we haven't seen a contract that says otherwise and all we have is your say-so. which, as you can well imagine - at this point - means very little.]
i don't think i'm the only person in this boat, but this is very likely the last straw for me. if i cannot sufficiently guarantee that my content STAYS mine, then i will be migrating my content in the coming days.
Which explains why nobody's heard of it, while everyone and their grandma knows about SL, right?
Also, riddled with spyware, malware, viruses, kids begging for (illegal) cybersex, etc... sure sounds like a real popular place (if your idea of a "popular place" equates to "run-down crack house with a meth lab in the basement.")
You got screwed is what happened. All your money would have been just as good as kindling for the fireplace. If you wanna know where your money goes, keep an eye on 'neer's twitter feed, he always posts all the new stuff he bought with donation money there. If it didn't end up in his wallet, it likely paid for some secret things related to the buyout deal.
What was the hashtag here a few months back? Oh, I remember. #Transparency
I would like some clarity on that, too. Not that I donated to this site, but uh lol
What to expect from someone with a name like you?..
Dragoneer and all staff members are still holding the resources and the rights on the site as well as the copyrights, etc!
Link to him saying as much, since you're not entirely up to date: http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/...../#cid:44892881
Really, the people have as much power as the owners.
I feel like a lot of people on this site have problems though.
Especially anger problems.
I find the original post was clarifying enough.
People have really become paranoid nowadays :/
So the paranoia is to be expected. It's just mentally preparing for what always happens.
The big cats step on the little man so the cat can stay big.
Back to the point, Neer's track record for smart decisions and lack of transparency has constantly been an issue. Especially when he promises FA will have this supposed "full transparency" only to have it be LEAKED that he'd hired a hacker with a questionable history and had multiple secret admins no one knew about. So I feel the "paranoia" is a bit fair in that regard. It's entirely possible for a man to change, sure, and I would love if that happened for the better, but it remains to be seen and every major decision made for this site in the past... however many months, has always warranted a puzzled reaction.
As for the original journal, it does state something along the lines of how FA's setup won't change, but I think the fact IMVU was involved, of all things, threw most everyone through a loop. There were a few things that needed to be clarified though, such as whether or not IMVU would be taking art from FA without needing our approval, since they do technically own FA now and all.
It's additionally concerning when Neer replied to someone who asked about this, basically saying that he would get an answer for them briefly - showing that he had no idea about this despite having been partnered with them behind the scenes for a couple months, which we're only finding out now due to that not-so-full transparency.
(Not to sound aggressive, I'm just finding this whole situation fascinating and not in a good way)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bt8ugw5a1.....large.png?dl=0
Are IMVU people trustworthy people? Would they keep their word?
I'm not gonna complain or show praise, untill I see proof of this stuff. Untill then I'm just gonna continue my life on FA as normal.
Okay
The whole "content on page 9" thing started offsite. The person was joking, and me like a dummy, and one other person thought it was real. We asked in the Q&A thread, and it ran from there.
It isn't real. It doesn't exist.
I'm the person who fucked up here.
dragoneer has been the antithesis of transparent. so. anything could happen.
"As mentioned in our announcement, the only input we have in FA is ensuring the site administrator has appropriate resources to make improvements to the site that he has been wanting to make (servers and such).
We are not implementing any subscription services for FA or generally making any changes to the way that community operates."
I can't copy and paste this enough if I tried.
and yet... I still have huge worries because Neer didn't deny it? AND he addressed it as well?
So yeah, I'm worried.
I kind of...need my job.
We are not implementing any subscription services for FA or generally making any changes to the way that community operates."
Question : what is the real benefit for IMVU ?
The benefit is a joining with a giant community of people with endless amounts of money and no sense.
Also, since imvu has posted in their own forums about their acquisition, they stand to lose both the possibility of FA people giving them business, but their own users as well.
The thing is, your comments on here show a cavalier attitude of "This is not bad at all" rather than the truth of "This could go ether way, and there IS some sketchy shit here." I for one, want to see that damn contract before I make an opinion ether way. :/
Hey, at least this one has an icon, amirite?
Furaffinity is free and always has been, IMVU is free at its core (unless you count content people choose to buy) and they're not about to "use your art" or merge this site into theirs like some hideous frankenstein. To me this just screams of the usual: furries don't like change, think of themselves way too highly (all this "Dragoneer sold out FA and our last remaining freedom" is frankly bullshit) and like to hold a grudge, probably out of personal preference for IMVU. I wonder if it would be different if Linden Labs bought FA instead?
Even if I'm wrong about everything and FA turns into something you don't agree with....none of you are paying for it so it's not like you're shareholders or anything, and no-one's tied you to a post and made you stay. Just my 2 cents.
EDIT: for those of you who make a living off this website, while I understand your point of view, if you make enough money off your art to use as an income then you really ought to be able to host it yourself, and there are plenty of other sites like Deviantart and Inkbunny for your advertising.
Everyone's having a god damn melt down.
DO BETTER.
basil!
my hero!
[not related at all. it's just one of my favourite movies. i see ratigan's in this thread too. boo, ratigan!]
I can see it being an issue, where if something were to afflict a company's reputation, they're going to respond to it. But, if the main heads have no issue about FA and the content, then what's the beef? But, I would have rather seen this go to someone bigger like Second Life. But, as you said, you had offers that wanted to destroy FA for all it is. So I'm rather grateful, you didn't give it to any random schmuck or schmucks on this site too.
As long as FA, stays yours and you are absolutely sure that they do not have a hand, foot, or a germ of control over you, and the site, then I can see it being good. I don't see why you couldn't, give the site to someone within the community you have now, and how exactly big is IMVU's furry community, cause, Large is subjective. A Large at a Starbucks, it's not the same kind of Large at a Dunkin Donuts.
I really do like to see FA prosper with this, if it's money that goes to development and all, then so be it, and being backed by a large enough company to give you the tools you need to improve a site, that won't break your own bank, put you out on the streets. Cause people often start a business, and then find out they can't afford it and they get into so much trouble, they lose more than they started with.
Anyway, let's see how this all goes down in the next couple days...
Lmao bye bye money
Their target demograpic is teen girls. They sell gift cards at Wal-Mart and Best Buy. Things are going to change fast here. It would be a PR nightmare if they publicly associated their kid-friendly site with FA, a site where around half of the images are porn.
Despite whatever Dragoneer may say about how things won't change much, he's ultimately not in charge any more. The corporate suits are going to have a field day here.
so yea, buesbuy subsidiary just got into furry porno, im sure thatll go over smoothly in the next board meeting
someones getting fired
Again I could be wrong so don't chew my ass out for this, this is just what I pretty much gathered.
The line from IMVU that nothing will change is unreliable at best. I've been on the receiving end of such talk before. It's business as usual until it ain't anymore; the suits at the top can and will hang anyone below them out to dry for whatever reason they please, with no prior warning.
nothing good ever happens when for-profit companies buy out community based websites
Q: And the cynical question is: "And how long before those terms of use change?"
Instead, he chokes his baby, while an outside company lights a bonfire to throw it on.
Nice. Really nice.
https://blog.kissmetrics.com/acquiring-a-website/
http://www.entrepreneurs-journey.co.....it-for-profit/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/martinz.....-your-startup/
You got screwed.
Lol.
I know fully well that shady stuff has gone on behind the scenes before--repeatedly, at that--but when my own creations are at stake, I refuse to tolerate it anymore.
I will continue to behave and use FA in the meantime, but i will be scrutinizing the TOS very, very carefully from now on.
Heck, a link for past and present announcements would be amazing.
Note how I didn't say Riot Games there. Riot Games does not own League of Legends, a Chinese company called Tencent does.
Riot games does however run League of Legends and is the face of League of Legends. The game is theirs, but they are owned by Tencent.
Everyone needs to calm down, take a step back, and think rationally instead of fear-mongering.
is this supposed to make people feel better
LOL WENT TO SHIT THE SECOND TENCENT BOUGHT IT.
I don't need to know the specific details, but were you at least able to get a contingency plan in place in case IMVU decides they no longer wish to be associated with FurAffinity? This is my home as much as it is many others' and I tend to immediately and vividly picture worst case scenarios. The one that comes to the forefront of my mind is not IMVU damaging the site with administrative decisions, but rather IMVU reselling the site to someone who themselves would damage FA far worse or otherwise creating a situation in which Dragoneer can no longer maintain the site.
Are there any contractual safeties in place to prohibit corporate... well... dickitude? :P
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor
If they HAVE done it, prove that they did. It would be far easier too, if they actually have done it.
The way you said it makes it seem like everybody is guilty until proven innocent; when it should be the exact opposite.
Regarding the third point: "3) IMVU has not been given any user information from FA"
Can you give any specific reassurance on this matter? If IMVU acquired FA and now employ you to run it, do you have any right or ability to refuse them access to user information? Don't they in fact own that information? Or do you have an agreement with them which states otherwise?
Let me fetch my Disco Ball, UV paint, and blacklights.
Posting to FA gives you some practice.
Posting to Weasyl gives you exposure,
and posting to a canvas gives you credit!
I've been staring at this comment for 3 minutes and I still don't get it
edit: hell I can't traditional for shit anymore
No thanks, I'll use the good ole' stretch-n-skew any day for my dumb anatomy mistakes (usually caused in the first place by an uneven drawing surface).
So the FA United convention and FA itself are now owned by two separate legal entities? Albeit one of which is owned by Dragoneer, and the other which employs him?
Or was FA United also part of the deal, since it carries the trademark?
is the ToS completely under your control still Dragoneer? as in the higher ups at IMVU can't change it so they can legally sell off other peoples works and creations?
Really the question is IF/WHO's going to do what. And I already know the answer to that.
No way they're spending all this money and not expecting to change something, or take a slice out of everybody's profit they make on this site. Plus, the real truth isn't being told, so nobody is going to trust the FA staff, and I certainly don't trust IMVU either.
I still feel like paying out the ass for additional advertising space; something people usually aren't interested in is a bit suspicious
Well let's just hope it's not the former then.
POSTING IN AN EPIC THREAD
IMVU spent all this cash just for advertising space? All the vague information is suspicious.
Will this affect MY ability to sell my own damn artwork, for my own damn self, and only my damn self.
It doesn't "govern" it, only affects it. That is assuming it's going to affect it.
Answer the friggin' questions everybody's asking already.
Are you so stupid as to think that they'd disclose their business intentions for this site? The contract only covers what they can and can't do with the site, or the boundaries of ownership.
Stop being a kiss ass.
You're also a hater which means you argue just to argue. I argue because I have genuine concerns.
2. You just used the word hater unironically. You're the only douchebag here.
There's no need to be so mean. And hell I know you're gonna be pretty rude to me too just for replying to you.
Seriously. Chill.
enjoy your insult binge
You're new here, ain'tcha?
Let me go fetch the popcorn.
Sorry, I just couldn't resist x3
In a sense, I'm on no one's side really for this little argument.
Deepest apologies if I spited you.
It's classical small part humor. Least you can do is loosen up and relax a bit.
Besides, I'm not here to make enemies anyways c:
but we should be stay calm and forget about this.
I could just not invest in youtube though. The world would be a much better place if everybody just said "fuck it".
Sometimes, there are questions with no answers, and answers with no questions.
.
.
Srsly just getting to this point took me 15 min. Majority of time waiting. One letter loaded per 3 s plus 30% being lost in the process. Wtf
you guys are sure gonna miss your erect dicks
-Nothing Dragoneer can say or has agreed to in paperwork trumps the above point.
-FurAffinity's ToS is a list of rules used to govern the site. It is not a legally binding agreement and does not override any country's copyright laws. It is a set of "house rules" for declaring what they will host on FurAffinity in terms of behavior and content.
-Unless you sign a release of your work to be used, for EVERY piece of work to be used, by a third-party entity, then any use of said pieces of submitted content is copyright infringement.
This site's staff might not understand copyright law. This site's userbase definitely doesn't understand copyright law.
Even if they somehow could sell your work, you're the only one who can make what you make.
They'd need you to keep making stuff, and obviously you're not going to do it if they're stealing from you.
You got no reason to talk to me like that.
Does he even want peace?
What a load of shit lmao.
Ad space on FA is dirt cheap. IMVU is not going to buy FA to run some little banner ads. That makes no sense.
Critical thinking is a valuable thing, it's not drama or overreacting. I've been here for years and no drama ever made me consider jumping ship.. but this one, it's way too fishy for me. IMVU is an ad-laden freemium hell hole.. FA is not far behind. Just give it time.
You only negotiated a temporary contract. I am sure burred under pages of legalize stands the terms 'We (imvu) can change the terms of this contract at will, without notifying you and needing your approval.'
A site like this has 'no' intrinsic value on it's own. Only the users who post on the site both posts and media content give it value. It is the only reason they even approached you.
Banner ads are a dead business considering the ubiquity of ad-blockers, so buying a site to just have more eyeballs on ad's makes no sense.
I have no high hopes for this
gg, no re
This was said and promised so many times. Here we are months after the fact.
If this hasn't been said I'll say it here: You're a fucking idiot and a liar.
I am confused, what is happening?! Why is everyone leaving FA?! Can someone help me?Who's IMVU's main rival?
Which virtual life sim/chat engine has a massive furry base?
Which site runs a fuckton of ads on this site and has a healthy userbase here?
Who would IMVU fuck over if they bought out FurAffinity and changed the ads?
Ad revenue might be a nice surface reason, but this seems more like a chance at hacking away at Second Life's userbase.
Personally, I got bored real quick with IMVU once I realized I had to pay a sizable chunk of real money to get an avatar that was halfway decent, where as on Second Life, I could get a decent avatar for free and then some.
It's really a pain to keep hearing about it
address the IMVU doesn't allow mature content part please
I really want this to be all taken care of so I don't have to hear about it anymore
also you guys should invest in a "dump gallery into a zip" button for when these people leave
malware and adware....that's going to drive people RIGHT THE FUCK OFF fa and needs to be addressed
I don't believe any of the shit but i know people who are exploding with paranoia and i want it quashed before the mass hysteria gets too much worse
For years people have been expecting the level of management from 'Neer that they see from sites owned by bigger companies with full staff on payroll. Now that the site is in a position to head in that direction, it's nonstop bickering and paranoia. I just don't understand people....
step 1: thing happens
step 2: FCUK PANIC
step 3: THREATEN TO LEAVE GTFO
step 4: It's actually not so bad
step 5: wait for next drama explosion
OMG This.
inb4MyspacebuysIMVU
Seriously, 'neer has done little to nothing in terms of actually improving this site, he was mostly the guy who took in a dollar of donations, bought 60 cents in inappropriate hardware and 40 cents on a Ferrox LLC owned Dodge Charger.
He has a boss now, deadlines now, and the site desperately needs security updating from 2006 standards that never had any progress done towards that.
He.
Will.
Not.
Last.
A.
Year.
Firing imminent! Then poof, no more of the parasitic relationship between Dragoneer and this website. He's not an owner now, and he won't be an administrator soon enough. What IMVU does, or who they put in charge is a mystery, but Dragoneer has as much real chance of all power being stripped from him as the userbase has of IMVU changing the place.
Does this mean i can have my money back?
The money that i gave you
donated
for love of the site
to keep it up and running
that you took
then kept while selling the site to a second rate second life?
that money?
Because i really cared and thought i was making a difference.
And i'm sure i'm not the only one who feels just a tad insulted by that.
it wasn't much. I admit, but it feels like a slap in the face to help the site only for it to turn around and sell it while keeping all those donations. We showed real support and love to keep this site open.
This isn't cool.
*eyerolling intensifies* :D
-FA'S PROPERTY IS NOT YOUR PROPERTY. YOUR PROPERTY IS NOT FA'S PROPERTY. When Dragoneer gave IMVU permission to use FA's content in any way they wish, he did not give them the right to use your copyrighted work, only work that belongs to FurAffinity exclusively. Whether he knows this or not, he can not legally give IMVU permission to use your icons or art work without YOUR permission.
Do I retain all rights to my work as I did before this super secret transaction, or does IMVU take it all from me?
what has happened to ALL of the donations people have given you in the past 4 weels gone?
IMVU from there own website and the wiki entry as well as other tech websites now actually OWN FA lock, stock and barrel, this means the trademark, copyright EVERYTHING.
FA have just shit on EVERYONE.
you have actually not included the people on the website in discussions over the sale of FA to IMVU, ironic that the ones that care the most and help out the most are all left out in the dark.
I actually think the FA admin staff should refund donations from the last 4 weeks since FA no longer needs donations.
I would also like to point out a teeny tiny thing.
go read the imvu forums, someone asked a straight question and this was the question
"since furaffinity has been purchased by imvu will their be any type of subscription model introduced now or the near future?"
the reply was short and sweet
"we cannot discuss on-going and current plans at this moment but we will inform everyone shortly"
seems were fucked
https://twitter.com/panderp/status/.....47385976500224
ok dragoneer just fucked everyone over bigtime
Not surprised. But fuck.
It may nullify the sale completely, if a half-owner doesn't want to sell.
plus at least in SL you can walk about wearing mesh av's with bouncy boobs :D
If they sold their content to Linden Labs, they'd be better.
People still have that perception that Second Life is a virtual Yiff/sex encounter place. This is wrong. There IS that side of yes. But one only goes for it if they want to. I read people complaining about SL being like that. I play second life for over a year now, and I only find yiff if I want to RP or whatever. The places I go to (Serenity Woods, Club Culture, Nautilus Beach) are furry, yes, have nudity, yes, but no one is blatantly yiffing on the others' faces.
It's a pity, though, that people still see Second-Life as a Yiff-Dating place.
IF they will respect our rights, I see no problem with this. It would be actually very cool, but... I'd like some proves.
It would have been nice to know what this deal is about and what will come from it before all this.
Unfortunately I suspect that we'll see more spam in the form of even more banners and ads (as if 5-6 banners/ads on any given page aren't enough), and no improvements. Here's hoping the FA staff will surprise us for the better this time.
So they're finally here performing for you,
If you know the words you can join in too.
Put your hands together if you want to clap,
As we take you through this monkey rap.
Huh
D.K. Donkey Kong
He's the leader of the bunch, you know him well,
He's finally back, to kick some tail.
His coconut gun can fire in spurts,
If he shoots ya, it's gunna hurt.
He's bigger, faster, and stronger too,
He's the first member of the D. K. crew.
Huh
D.K. Donkey Kong
D.K. Donkey Kong is here.
This Kong's got style, so listen up dudes,
She can shrink in size to suite her mood.
She's quick and nimble when she needs to be,
She can flout through the air and clime up trees.
If you choose her, you'll not choose wrong,
With a skip and a hop, she's one cool Kong.
Huh
D.K. Donkey Kong
He has no style, he has not grace,
This Kong has a funny face.
He can handstand when he needs to
And stretch his arms out just for you,
Inflate himself just like a balloon.
This crazy Kong just digs this tune.
Huh
D.K. Donkey Kong
D.K. Donkey Kong is here.
He's back again and about time too
And this time he's in the mood.
He can fly real high with his jetpack on,
With his pistols out, he's one cool Kong.
He'll make you smile when he play's his tune,
But Kremlins beware 'cause he's after you.
Huh
D.K. Donkey Kong
Huh
Finally he's here for you he's here for you,
It's the last member of the D.K. crew.
This Kong's so strong, it isn't funny,
He'll make a Kremlin cry out for mommy.
He can pick up a bolder with relative ease
Make crushing rocks seem such a breeze.
He may move stow, he can't jump high,
but this Kong's one hell of a guy.
Huh
C'mon Cranky take it to the fridge
Walnuts, peanuts, pineapple smells,
Grapes melons oranges and coconut shells.
Walnuts, peanuts, pineapple smells,
Grapes melons oranges and coconut shells.
Oh yeah
HAI GREMLIN :D
A perfectly good example of something similar:
Everyone FREAKED the F out when Microsoft bought Minecraft, and look where Minecraft is today... Exactly where it would have been.
I was kinda worried about it at first, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized that if Microsoft messed up Minecraft, they'd have a huge problem to deal with, and therefore they would most likely do what they can to avoid that. This applies to IMVU and FA. If IMVU messes up FA, having (tens or hundreds of?)thousands of internet people mad at them would not go well for them.
Hopefully I'm right in my assumptions for the sake of all the artists who rely on fa.
What does FA have that IMVU could possibly want? Ad space is too cheap to warrant buying the whole dang thing.
'what the hell did we buy'
I'm worried about something else.
I'd been seeing reports of IMVU buying tables at various events and targeting their pitches towards furries. Before that it was those "create your furry" banner ads. I think IMVU feels there's money in some sort of visual furry chat. I'm not sure where they got that idea. There are lots of "furry chats" that have images on them and few of them seem to be big money-makers.
What IMVU makes their scratch on is selling add-ons for your "character" - ears, tails, whatever. It's really their business model and that's okay - a chat site has to earn it's keep too, right?
What I'm mostly concerned about is this site becoming either of the following:
-- a site where you can view posted content, but you have to pay for image hosting space/the ability to comment/have a custom avatar (their art, bought from them), avoid seeing ads and so on and so on. The site is technically free but to use it you have to pay for each little "addition".
or worse
-- this site becomes a large extension of IMVU. Think the equivalent of a facebook clone. You'd need an IMVU account to use FA, you'd have to buy their bits and pieces to "make" your avatar. In short, this site will become IMVUFA.
As long as I have the basic functionality I have now I have no plans to leave this site. I like FA, warts and all. However I don't have the budget to pay for yet another site to sell from.
But when you break it all down both Secondlife and IMVU are both glorified instant messengers just one has voice the other don't.
Pretty much the FA userbase atm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS7nqwGt4-I
*sheds a tear*
beautiful
Also, PANCAKES!!!
if they pack up and leave then come back in 10 days that's their choice x03
all i ask of you guys is to not google+'d youtube this site with imvu stuff, they bought this for a reason, you guys sold it for a reason, it's not for the community because no company is generous just like that and some of us completely understand that
if the site -does- go down hill[which i sorta doubt] the community will be leaving anyway
i'll keep an eye on the ToS changes, hope you guys will implement some needed features, i thought the site was working fairly well as it was though with some of those lacking
if anything, it'd be nice if you could get FA off the blacklist if there's any way to
it's not every day that two news posts feature dildos as the first comments in one day.
Im out
Are there links and such to back this up because if it's real, it's a big issue
Lick my smooth glossy dragon ass Eric Ries, because if you fuck up in anyway you're liable.
Other then that, I never liked IMVU.
For those of you who remember when Google bought out Youtube. Yes, that was a major blunder how that went over with integrating google+ into youtube's systems. But did it ever get in the way of you watching cat videos and skits for 3 hours at a time? No.
Or for three things rather recent, when Yahoo acquired Tumblr, when Fullscreen (the indie movie company) acquired Rooster Teeth, and when Amazon.com acquired Twitch.tv They ALL have one thing in common
The sites actually really remain in ownership and maintained as they were before, they just now have the extra beef to do their running.
I'm surprised that Dragoneer has not done this type of move sooner.
Yes, IMVU may have a rather nasty track history, but this site does as well. And don't give me "Two wrongs don't make a right."
The site will ultimately remain under Dragoneer's watchful eye, but now he has the opportunity to bring on more staff and more coders to the site, a much larger chance to try to mitigate the DDoS attacks that we have been getting as of late.
You can't expect for someone to be completely transparent on some things, like business mergers, because that by law, is actually private business, as this is technically classified as a private website, formerly owned by Dragoneer. 'Neer has no legal obligation that he has to be 100% Transparent to everything.
The only thing that was mentioned that will change is how some ads work with IMVU. But that's what ad block plus is for people.
If you all are really scared of loosing your art or what not, then move to another site. I and many others will not stop you, that is YOUR choice. However, there really wasn't a whole lot we could have done in the first place.
So just please, Pick up your drama an' what not, and place it in the trash. WHERE IT BELONGS.
You all have enough drama to begin with, don't make more.
Any changes in Tos AUP rules might happen with part from IMVU under the rug. :3
:3
Really disrespectful to call our warrented criticism garbage.
>For those of you who remember when Google bought out Youtube. Yes, that was a major blunder how that went over with integrating google+ into youtube's systems. But did it ever get in the way of you watching cat videos and skits for 3 hours at a time? No.
Or for three things rather recent, when Yahoo acquired Tumblr, when Fullscreen (the indie movie company) acquired Rooster Teeth, and when Amazon.com acquired Twitch.tv They ALL have one thing in common
Google is a reputable site, and google+ isn't total garbage like IMVU.
>The sites actually really remain in ownership and maintained as they were before, they just now have the extra beef to do their running.
False, the ownership HAS changed and we have new maintainers and programmers now.
>I'm surprised that Dragoneer has not done this type of move sooner.
Yes, IMVU may have a rather nasty track history, but this site does as well. And don't give me "Two wrongs don't make a right."
I'm giving you two wrongs don't make a right because it's true, so "Two wrongs don't make a right."
>The site will ultimately remain under Dragoneer's watchful eye, but now he has the opportunity to bring on more staff and more coders to the site, a much larger chance to try to mitigate the DDoS attacks that we have been getting as of late.
He's always had that opportunity.
>You can't expect for someone to be completely transparent on some things, like business mergers, because that by law, is actually private business, as this is technically classified as a private website, formerly owned by Dragoneer. 'Neer has no legal obligation that he has to be 100% Transparent to everything.
Neer literally told us 2015 would be different, more transparent, and speaking of legality, no one is talking about suing neer (except arcturu) but it's still a fucked up thing to do.
>The only thing that was mentioned that will change is how some ads work with IMVU. But that's what ad block plus is for people.
Of course that's the only thing, and as time goes on, more and more things will change. Just watch.
>If you all are really scared of loosing your art or what not, then move to another site. I and many others will not stop you, that is YOUR choice. However, there really wasn't a whole lot we could have done in the first place.
Again, I can't believe some people STILL don't get this, but some people DONT have a choice because they make money off this site, the other sites still don't have the number of users to support them financially. Trust me, everyone who does have the ability to jump ships, and actually cares about the issue have jumped.
>So just please, Pick up your drama an' what not, and place it in the trash. WHERE IT BELONGS.
Again, it's shitty to call our warrented criticism drama and trash.
>You all have enough drama to begin with, don't make more.
It's not drama, it's the future of the main hub of the furry community.
However under the reigns of a unbiased third party semi-competent company FA might actually make beneficial changes for once.
https://twitter.com/panderp/status/.....47385976500224
I am assuming after seeing the success SL has had on the Furry community, IMVU decided to make a move in this direction. I am NOT an IMVU supporter, and will continue to promote SL over this act of obvious greed.
I am not as worried about content being sold or traded w/o permission. As soon as my reference sheet is updated, it will be trademarked and copyrighted to my name.
Well I'M not leaving FA anyway
Someone was apparently listening
This mind-bogglingly unjustified shitstorm will pass just like the others.
¡VIVA LA FA!
HUBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBBR
-Dragoneer himself mentioned that IMVU can technically override any decision he makes, and do whatever they want. So what's to stop them from turning around and overhauling FA for their own purposes? They're not entirely successful, and FA has the traffic and popularity for them to re-purpose it for their own gain.
-Dragoneer also said himself that he did not check if IMVU isn't going to use submitted content for in-game content and ads. He was going to "confirm it with the CEO and get back to us".
-Dragoneer also said that he is technically not the owner of FA anymore, IMVU is. Which means they are no longer a third party, but now a first party. So doesn't that mean that they do now have access to our information?
-As much as IMVU is against adult content, how do we know they're not going to annihilate NSFW content? After all, they can override what Dragoneer wants.
A few questions and food for thought. Everything I've mentioned has been said by Dragoneer himself. So it's not theories or speculation at all.
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/...../#cid:44893148
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/...../#cid:44896646
Screenshot because I can no longer find the comments: https://twitter.com/TheDingoDidIt/s.....48738731855873
If IMVU is paying for everything, then there's literally no reason you should keep that money, other than to say "FUCK YOU" to the community.
You completely disgust me!
People may as well forget it if they think he's gonna give any money back.
minus charilezzz or ralf going to the buvvins, which sucks
If anytime that means that Adult submissions are no longer allowed, I'm leaving
:Sorry I'm typing on my phone.:
I am fairly new but I think I should say something. At least to make myself feel better. I try to look for motives into peoples intentions and gear it to company wise.
They are solely in this for the money and profit. I don't think they will step the lines of taking art because it would harm their goals as a company. They don't want to harm us. What do furries have? Numbers, time, money, and general accepting and kind natures. What does imvu need ? They need want you guys have as a whole community.
They use to ban or get rid of furry things on there site. Its not until they realized how much of a money maker furries are. There go to products are furry related because they sell. They weren't a furry community at the start. Remember that!
Dragoneer just handed over the crown. The top of the tower. The queen's jewels to them. They have been buying furry con tables trying to push there product onto us. Its simple. Why not go where the vast majority would sell. They are simply following their wallet. To slowly find a crack and plunder it down to the root. Well they now have a biiiggg root.
I don't think they'll steal or harm your work. But in fact if they fix the main furry site hopeing that we'd be greatful and even dine at their table of merchandize. I don't like this one bit. Their ganna hold this site like a little pet trying to keep it satisfied enough so there wouldn't be droves leaving because that what they want. A community merger. They want to instill themselves into your hearts hopeing you won't notice the costs. They'll be crowned "hero" with the crown site.
I know a lot of this is words and without proof. I browsed IMVU forums and they don't seem much happier with the merge. Though my personal opinion their version of furry is much different then this sites definition of fur. Reading from our new "cousins" I can kind of assume this. I'm not happy how this is looking.
I'm sorry I'm jumbled up and kind of rambled. I didn't plan to make a post but reading this thread and even the news. Even Imvu forums. All the threads and comments I've read. It has me so shocked, baffled, and furious. I knew FA had problems and I kind of always looked up to the site. Well not its management but the community. I just feel so.. Hurt I guess. You didn't even sell it to a real Fur. One who actually understands all the differences and similarities, the ins and outs of the community at hand. Sold it to a money hungry buissness. That's not love! That's not caring for the site. Not my definition anyways.
Anyways these are just things I've found. Though most of this is just reading back and forth of threads. Also I can gladly say I near over 80% of the news post on FA. :
http://www.imvu.com/catalog/modules.....76&start=0
Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 460
Location: USA - NY
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 3:27 am Post subject:I find it interesting how drastically IMVU's stance on furries has changed in just a few short years. I recall back in 2008 when so many furry outfits went AP because they were deemed "Furkinis". Furryism (Is that a word?) was heavily discouraged here for a while..."
http://www.imvu.com/catalog/modules.....sc&start=0
This is just... I read both threads and I can tell you furaffinity discussion thread had 9 pages and is stillll growing vs imvu had less then 2. Though now they are flocking to it. I really don't like the tones of this new cousin.
OH WAIT!
ONCE AGAIN, YOU SCREWED UP. GREAT JOB.
just gonna leave this here...
Then Dragoneer recognizes he can't give FA the time it needs due to IRL commitments so he lets someone else take over.
"HURR DURR I HATE IMVU HOW DARE YOU LEAVE US, DRAGONEER"
guys wut?
I feel like this is a positive step for FA. Hopefully now we'll see those changes we've all been wanting for so long!!~
Now a team which has the time and skills needed to make this a better place are in charge, things will most likely change for the better.
That's the problem with the situation now . NOBODY knows anything with 100% certainty. Not even the ex-owner who apparently signed the contract before even reading it.
There are plenty of furries who could have done this job five times better, yet he hands it to a company in the middle of a crash.
And he sold out on the same month the donation spree occurred.
So, yes. People have a right to be pissed.
Perfect.
Just gonna leave this here...
Shit is hitting the fan, jump ship while you can.
Run while you can.
It's equally difficult to find quality toon artists which is mostly what I enjoy seeing here. ^^;
If they remove adult content and stuff goes down hill i'm sorry but I will jump ship. If things actually get better then i'll eat my metaphorical hat. I'm sure tons of users could have done a lot better for the site though. I don't have much else to say though but i'm curious about these changes and what the agreements are exactly. It would have been nice to know about this when it happened and not months later because of rumors going around. That's not transparency at all :/ it's poorly done damage control.
Either way i'm rather curious about how this all will pan out. Like I said it could go either way and I depend on this site for a lot of things. So if stuff gets fixed and things improve I'll be sticking around for the long run.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l4OEJ38aLY
It's Happening
You could have stopped this.
I tried to warn you.
You asked for this.
It's Happening.
wile here I am with this lovely tea... *sips*
>w>
20k dollars... were these your 40 silver coins
JudasDragoneer? Cuz you already had that amount from donations a couple months ago. Wasn't it enough for you? You should have asked for more then, instead of stabbing every single one of us in the back.I can't help but laugh!
the only differnce is that you cant google it which?? who would want to anyways why would you go on google to search for porn on tumblr
Let's get back to the real reason I made that comment though. From my point of view Tumblr has changed. Their DMCA policies in particular appear to be moving in the YouTube direction of shoot first, ask questions later (if at all).
Apparently the layoff was subverted by the petition Tumblr's userbase started in response to Yahoo!'s purchase of the platform, presumably to quell the uproar.
i looked it up after you saying so and i have found nothing even remotely saying your claim is true
i have no reason to believe you unless you can give me some kind of reason too
Nothing at all came up about it
"I didn't know I was on trial here.
Apparently the layoff was subverted by the petition Tumblr's userbase started in response to Yahoo!'s purchase of the platform, presumably to quell the uproar."
you came at me with some ridiculous claim and i asked for proof. Im not putting you on trial, im asking a reasonable question. If you cant prove what you said, say so. im not going to attack you for it.
If you heard it through the grapevine thats fine. i dont care. im just asking if you can prove your statement because from what i have seen you are not telling the truth
I was telling the truth as I knew it. Whether or not it was actually fact is a different matter entirely. I did not lie. To be honest why does anyone give a shit? Draammmaaaaaa
if you dont actually know the facts you probably shouldnt be going around saying ridiculous claims like that
I fail to see what is ridiculous. I didn't think it was ridiculous claim because I didn't think it was incorrect; even if I knew it was false, I'm enabling someone on a furry porn site to perpetuate drama. I'm not writing a thesis, I'm not in a court of law, and I'm not accusing someone of infidelity or rape.
Again, I was telling the truth as I knew it. How am I supposed to know I don't know the facts if I don't know I don't know the facts?
So long and thanks for all the fish.
Dis Gun B Gud! :U *sits back and noms some popcorn*
I'd like clear-cut and definitive legal information about all this. Can documents be at all provided?
I recall seeing either on the forums or twitter neer saying he is under an NDA himself.
I neither trust nor distrust what staff from both sites have said thus far. I just want to look at it from a legal perspective, and from a legal perspective such words are impossible to rely on, while a legal document is. That's my logic anyways.
Though i was bored enough a couple years ago to actually read the ToS for WoW XD
That's a very random decision; why WoW? XD
But truth is you don't need to be a legal expert, IE, me, to realize FA has no control over very specific forms of content seizure.
As long as FA users try to maintain their own copyright and deny access to IMVU, and IMVU doesn't take further action than it has with this purchase, FA users still own their art and creations on the net. Otherwise, legally, IMVU has legal rights and ownership.
Even more so, if ever were said art and creations were to ever leave FA and go to IMVU and its created site and/or 'MMO roleplay game' copyright and ownership is forfeited to IMVU, regardless of whoever posted such things there...
Sadly, hopefully IMVU loses all influence over FA soon. This can only end badly with what has legally been asserted.
the details seem vague...
Granted that this community does provide them with with some financially beneficial traffic I can see why they would have interests in helping us. But in the greater interest of the community what can they do for us? server improvement and management is obvious but what about the overall integrity and stability of the community as a whole? Many of us have witnessed site members leaving FA simply because the Idea has become popular, at this rate if they really want to help they should present an idea that will help restore faith in the community.
we buy factories move all workers to us und then close it.
if u can not be better than your rivals, kill them.
everybody know my company cuz u use it a few timer every day.
i am not big enough to change something but ive a voice, think about what i said and remember thats how it works. ;)
but hey imvu yes u can have my music. as long as u let the ppl know who made it xD yay that would be a free commercial for me as hobby musican
If IMVU doesn't kill FA by their own means, this shockwave of artists and everyone else fleeing ship will make the whole thing crumble on its own
However.... if any sort of paywall, subscription, 'premium edition' or any sort of fee hits the site, I'm out. If I find myself being targeted by any sort of ads related to IMVU or any of it's non FA related affiliates outside of FA, I'm out. If any sort of content currently allowed on the site gets banned due to pressure from IMVU, I'm out....
......and if a single pixel of my art is used anywhere by IMVU or it's affiliates without my personal express written consent I will start the biggest legal shitstorm this fandom has ever seen.
No change to FurAffinity.net except for more resources to make site improvements and additional advertising on the site from our ad partners.
Copied from the staff troll here http://www.imvu.com/catalog/modules.....c&start=15
First question: Do you - Dragoneer - have final say on anything anymore?
Because if that's not the case then there are no more certainties here - the 'business as usual' sign does not apply. At the whims of this new owner, anything and everything is open to re-evaluation and change - at any time.
Second question: Did you make IMVU fully aware of the full extent of what they were buying? Did you just say something superficial like: "Oh yeah there is adult content on the site." or did you make them fully aware of the extremity of some of the content here? Did you ask whether or not any of that gave them cause for concern?
Third question: Do you/can you offer any assurances that adult content will not suddenly become a 'problem' for IMVU - henceforth becoming a 'problem' for many of the users here?
This is probably the biggest worry and uncertainty for the majority of users here - there are other places people can go to share adult material but FA is (for the moment) the most convenient and popular.
That last part can change though - very quickly. If adult art suddenly becomes a problem for IMVU then FA's main strength over sites like dA disappears completely. That will most definitely lead to a mass migration to other sites such as Weasyl - which currently lack the strength of users this site has. I will say that you have been doing a lot to create the right conditions for mass migration lately though.
I hope that if you have the time you answer my questions truthfully - and I hope things work out for the site and users here.
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/...../#cid:44895322 & http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/...../#cid:44892881
Can't answer the rest for you, and sorry I'm not Dragoneer, but just putting what I can down! Hopefully it helps!
GOOGLE : And today he/She did/went. You want to keep it between you or you and the community unless you want to post every little think you did?
IMVU was shit to begin with, and now they own one of my favorite sites? Wtf. ._.
http://puu.sh/gHXhq/023a1614b7.jpg
http://puu.sh/gHXxT/94b481a76b.jpg
http://puu.sh/gHXtu/27a81e1ed0.jpg
Burn ALL of that with fire
taken 2 soon.
http://i.imgur.com/bN0XP3R.jpg
This video sums up how we all feel at the moment.
FA has been Shrekt ;_;
Shrek is not love, shrek is not life.
https://mobile.twitter.com/panderp/.....47385976500224
In other words - this whole situation is hilarious.
Dragoneer, if you have a single FUCKING shred of dignity you'll undo this fucking mess, no amount of money or dick sucking IMVU is providing is worth what we lost today
Have you ever used IMVU or inspected IMVU's business ethics in action?
For years they've prayed on the gullible and art theft WAS a massive problem for like a year and a half before.
They don't like adult content, and they make you pay to actually create content.
If they own the site, doesn't this mean they can just fire you if you say no to them, or just show you a contract that basically says "We own you" and just do what they want?
They're an expensive and scammy bunch, Dragoneer. I'm not convinced that was the best group to sell to.
Especially since SL is winning the proverbial war.
I think I just requoted 99.9% of FA journals.
I feel special.
"Fur Affinity, brought to you by IMVU" should be the next banner.
Its a chat website and this is seriously what it looks like
How did this all started.
Just wondering.
Seriously, it's like all the people who screamed that Justin Bieber will play Luke in the next Star Wars and Hulk won't be angry anymore because Marvel and Lucasfilm got bought by Disney.
How can there be trust in the face of this isn't the first time we've been directly lied to and mislead? I think that's the big issue here. But then again, that's just me, some silly planty who thinks leaders lead and follow promises.
Apparently IMVU's accounting department is in full control of the donation money now.
Like... I would like IMVU to post a statement on that and clarify how much money they got a hold of.
And yes, I am glad I never gave a penny to this place ;P
cheese
......continue
See you back here in 2days
Debating pulling all my content, as terrible as it is.
My two cents on this.
Yes, indeed and different types of titles are certainly at play.
One of the 'secrets' of the wealthy is to "Own nothing but control EVERYTHING!".
It's not about who legally "owns" the site by way of holding legal title.
It's about who has right to "control' of the site by of holding equitable title.
This is what is meant by "possession (equitable title) is 9/10 of the law".
The OTHER 1/10 is the legal title holder-OWNER and LIABLE party for the property such as taxes due.
Versus the Beneficiary party in POSSESSION of the property who holds right to use and CONTROL it.
So what care we; who OWNS the site as long as furs remain in CONTROL the site?
I have authored many journals about these things such as these:
The rule books for your car-house-furry artwork-PROPERTY-
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/6521434/
Who owns the good Ship named "Citizen"?-
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/6585682/
I feel there would be a LOT less controversy and furs would be a lot better off if the furry community would spend the time to learn more about these commercial and contractual facts that we all deal with on a daily basis.
We are all have the Authority to Author our contracts by away of our AURHORized signature but do we EVER take the time to actually be legally competent to AMEND a contract we AUTHOR by way of our AUTHORized signature or clicking on "I accept" the mere draft as offered by another party? They Offered the contract draft BUT; do we have legal contractual competence to merely update or amend the contract before Authorizing it with our Authorized signature or clicking "accept"? . . .
These things all involve Trust and Trusts and there can be no commerce without Trust which is why a currency may have printed directly on its face "In the Creator we TRUST".
We ARE the CREATORS of these things!
I have no Idea what was created between all the parties involved and this may involve a Non-Disclosure Agreement which is a not usually a bad thing.
But I do TRUST Dragoneer and others involved to be legally competent in these matters while maintaining our best Interest at heart.
Kindest regards;
}:>
Who and what is Scorch?
A short bio-
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/6436082/
It all depends on the nature of the contract agreement which typically includes an Offer, Acceptance, Consideration and Performance subject to Clauses, Term(s), Condition(s), Indemnity, Non-Disclosure, Force Majeure and Etcetera.
If Dragoneer and others involved are legally competent and have our best interests in mind, when they Authored the contract then it may well include stipulations regarding what the parties can and can NOT do with the Property in our Possession.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_possession
And besides all that; WE are ALL the CREATORS of this property and we have the POWER to STOP Creating it therefore the "Owner" is unlikely to do any thing that might DAMAGE this Trust relationship and his investment by way of driving us, the Creators of it away from it. . .
Dragoneer (and many others including myself) have put a LOT of his time, effort and energy into this living, constructive creation and I doubt he has simply "sold us out". Therefore I still TRUST this site is not going to simply to fall apart or disappear or harm us users.
And I also Trust that IMVU is not a dark force with negative intentions to simply destroy this Property known as Furaffinity.
Just as I TRUST the State who OWNS all the vehicles in my Possession by way of holding the Legal Title called a Manufacture's Certificate of Origin (MCO). I Trust the State to not steal the property or Trespass on my right of Possession, including my right to sell and convey the Right of Possession to another party by way of Transferring the Equitable Title-CERTIFICATE of title.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usufruct
In this usufructuary relationship; I TRUST the state and its Trustees to Serve and Protect me (the User-Beneficiary) by holding the Legal Title to the car in my Possession (9/10 of law) by way of the Equitable Title I hold and is named "CERTIFICATE of Title". Which is exactly that.
A CERTIFICATE that CERTIFIES the State holds and PROTECTS the Legal Title.
And here are what these two very different documents many look like-
http://rodscontracts.com/docs/title.....pMCOcertOF.pdf
I do not offer legal advice but now that we know these laws including the nature of these Contracts, Titles and Trusts; can we ignore them?
Kindest regards;
}:>
Who and what is Scorch?
A short bio-
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/6436082/
Something happens
Furries get dramatic/butthurt and say they're gonna move to Weasyl.
They leave for 2 days but come back.
Cycle repeats in another few months.
And more so to prove to people that you can't trust neer, he's been hiding this from everyone since December. http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/...../#cid:44898418 Granted it shouldn't be surprising to anyone that he's lied once again about things, but it just goes to prove even more that he can't be trusted and will not do what is right.
And despite the fact that a bunch of people donated money to the site to improve the hardware it's still apparently not good enough so he's putting more crap into it. So basically everyone that donated before completely wasted their money. Let alone the fact that we're going to have new and paid programmers working on the site now. Despite the fact that more then enough competent people have offered to help before and for free, but were turned down. So the only thing I can figure is they really must had padded his pocket in order to up and change his mind like that.
I also had to laugh at this line on IMVU's Wiki, "In January 2015,[10] IMVU aquired FurAffinity, a furry fandom art gallery. According to the aquired site, this aquisition was "the natural and reasonable conclusion to bring these similar and often already connected communities together officially.""
I have no idea how either of these sites or similar. Granted I've never used theirs, but again if I had to use something like it I'd use Second Life. There is no way I'd promote their site or join their site and I really doubt it'll happen the other way around.
I really don't blame people for being pissed and again I hope this ends up being the nail in the coffin for this site. On the other hand it would suck if the site was stripped down, despite me being bitter like I am towards the site and such. But the whole point of this whole site and community was to keep it in the community. Not sell it off to some shit rip off site for whatever stupid reason or another.
I think its only fitting that the website of a crap person is now owned by an entire crap company.
First, IMVU is a hellhole of malware. Since 2004 I've been cleaning up the computers at the behest of parents whose tweens lack common sense (the parents also seem to lack common sense.)
IMVU can't be bothered to control their advertising system any more than anyone here can control this IMVU/FA purchase. That should be red flag number one.
Second, we were promised transparency. Making this promise while the site was likely under buyout consideration by another company was most certainly not transparency. Red flag number two.
Third, having run and sold a few businesses of my own, I can universally guarantee you that the IMVU ToS will become the dominating ToS. This happened with Google's buyout, it happened with mine, with my sites eventually succumbing to the parent company ToS. To think otherwise is disingenuous and intellectually dishonest towards yourself if you think otherwise. Even Reddit wasn't immune to this, nor Slashdot. Red flag number three.
Fourth, we've never recieved a real response (if any at all) from Dragoneer regarding the prior donations, and then the sudden announcement that donations were never needed again. Obviously we only *NOW* know why this was (IMVU buyout.) Red flag number four.
Fifth, no matter how safe you THINK you are with your works and copyright law, there exists this thing called 'fair use.' IMVU will abuse that to no end, and proof of that has been around for A DECADE AT MINIMUM, with pretty much zero repercussions from ANYONE. Red flag number five.
How many more red flags are you guys going to allow to be thrown before you lose full faith in your team?
FA have no obligation whatsoever not to sell our information, which we should respect -it's their business- but then again, we have no obligation to stay.
More than anything i am curious if you have any planned changes to the TOS? in particular do you have any planed changes to the wording on data use and privacy?
will furaffinity remain a free service?
I also second the questions of others who asked about the donation drive that occurred right before the DOS attack. if the donation drive was a response to the DOS that would be one thing, but how do you justify doing a donation drive after you have secretly entered into a partnership that ostensibly should have been willing to cover the expenses of the upgrade?
i believe that you are really trying to do the right thing for yourself and the community, but these questions really need to be addressed to make the community whole again.
People are leaving because they don't want to be associated with this site, now that a company as meh as IMVU is involved. Those advertisements that they're going to monetize? Guarantee you some of those are going to serve up malware. And they won't do anything about it for the most part, since they're being paid to display that ad. IMVU has a history of not listening to anyone, and an even worse history of 'customer support.'
IMVU is so dead that even its own subreddit hasn't had a post in MONTHS, and the posts that are there are very few.
It's a wasteland.
Was the money really good enough to go all Jane Cobb on this one?
The aquisition seems mostly pointless seeing IMVU's normal target audience and FA's userbase.