Regular Comic Convention vs. Furry Convention
10 years ago
This past weekend I went to, surprisingly, my very first regular ol' comic book/general nerd stuff convention. The con in question was "Wizard World" in my very own hometown of St. Louis. I've been doing furry cons professionally for seven years now so I'm pretty used to them; I know how they work and what to expect. It's no secret that I'm a terrible furry, I don't do a lot of furry things and don't really like most furry art or stories, so going to a con that had a lot of stuff that I was genuinely interested was a breath of fresh air. However not all was well at Wizard World so here's my run down of what I liked better at each type of con. Please feel free to un-follow me over these incredibly mild opinions OR leave really brutally dull and snarky comments below.
The rundown:
1. The con goers: if you switched every fursuiter at a fur con with a guy in a Deadpool outfit the two cons would be virtually indistinguishable. Smelly people, clueless chatterboxes, alpha-nerds, and all the other things that annoy me at a fur con were here as well. Comic con is the winner in this category however due to an influx of smoking hot Harley Quinn cosplayers instead of fursuiters wearing questionable pairs of boxers.
Point: Comic Con.
2. The Art: This is a tough one for me because I rarely ever buy any furry art because it looks very samey samey all too often (thin lines, big eyes and usually no background [please don't send me counterexamples, I'm not speaking in absolutes here you fool]) to me BUT at comic con I saw more photo painting and background tracing than I could believe. One booth at comic con was headed up by an "artist" whose entire line up was just photo traces of promotional art work (he literally had traced one of the Netflix slides for the new "Daredevil" show.) I was also distressed by the sheer amount of fan art on display, a lot of artists were seemingly incapable of coming up with original content, though they might also just be stifled by market pressure. On the MAJOR plus side I got to meet Ethan Van Sciver and J.O. Barr, though at fur cons I've met Stan Sakai and James Gurney, all incredibly talented awesome guys.
Point: nobody. Tracing at one con and derivative, background less mush art at the other means we all loose. Amazing pros like the ones I mentioned above are wins for everyone.
3. Networking potential: I'm always on the prowl for new connections and potential cool people. At furry cons I've lined up some awesome clients but have been either outright ignored by publishers (I was told my comics "weren't porny enough". Cool, good talk. Way to raise the bar) or even shadow banned from certain publications (artists don't like that I beat them at cons and thus, shit talk me to their friends.). At this comic con hugely successful artists and publishers were exceedingly polite and seemed genuinely interested in my work. I may make more money at fur cons but having publishers and artists act like human beings was a first.
Point: Comic Cons.
4. Artistic Freedom: I mentioned earlier how next to no one was doing original work at Wizard World and that it was sad. There may be no good furry comics etc...but at least some people are trying. Plus: as bad a rap as furries get for the whole porn thing I've noticed that the vast majority of my commissions aren't pornographic (I don't object to porn, I just don't want it to be all I do. That would be incredibly dull.) and that people are usually excited to see my take on their subject matter. I vastly prefer this to drawing endless fan art.
Point: Furry Cons.
5. Crazy People: at comic con we had some weirdos but furry has them beat by a mile. Hell, those goddamn chihuahua men alone are crazier than anything I saw at Wizard World.
Point Furry Cons.
6. Actual Comics: there weren't a lot of comics for sale at Wizard World and the ones that were were marked up heinously high. At furry cons there are comics for sale but I've only seen a scant few I'd even consider "good" come out of this community (Blacksad didn't come out of this community, it doesn't count).
Point: No one. Locking art behind price walls and being incapable of producing it are just two shitty sides to the same awful coin.
7. Deciding vote: there isn't one. It's an arbitrary tie because if I announced a "winner" I'd have to read more uninformed opinions than I care to, it's a dubious way to incense people and get a reaction out of them; really just manipulative. I made it a list/competition format so people MIGHT consider reading it. If you need a summation of my thoughts on the matter here it is: I love comics more than any other art form so I'm pretty critical of a lot of the aspects of them, including the venues I find them at. The furry community has been and will continue to be a great place for me to practice my craft in an environment of near absolute artistic freedom. The furry community could stand to expand its taste buds however; I want the most out of this community and meeting the incredible craftsmen who work outside of it has inspired me to only push my own art further and, hopefully, to push others too. This isn't an "us vs. them" thing, despite my ingenious framing device. "Us vs. them" is a dullard's way of viewing the world when we could be learning and bettering ourselves by analyzing other communities, genres, and individuals.
Feel free to take this as a hostile attack on your favorite genre (it's not).
-Bone
The rundown:
1. The con goers: if you switched every fursuiter at a fur con with a guy in a Deadpool outfit the two cons would be virtually indistinguishable. Smelly people, clueless chatterboxes, alpha-nerds, and all the other things that annoy me at a fur con were here as well. Comic con is the winner in this category however due to an influx of smoking hot Harley Quinn cosplayers instead of fursuiters wearing questionable pairs of boxers.
Point: Comic Con.
2. The Art: This is a tough one for me because I rarely ever buy any furry art because it looks very samey samey all too often (thin lines, big eyes and usually no background [please don't send me counterexamples, I'm not speaking in absolutes here you fool]) to me BUT at comic con I saw more photo painting and background tracing than I could believe. One booth at comic con was headed up by an "artist" whose entire line up was just photo traces of promotional art work (he literally had traced one of the Netflix slides for the new "Daredevil" show.) I was also distressed by the sheer amount of fan art on display, a lot of artists were seemingly incapable of coming up with original content, though they might also just be stifled by market pressure. On the MAJOR plus side I got to meet Ethan Van Sciver and J.O. Barr, though at fur cons I've met Stan Sakai and James Gurney, all incredibly talented awesome guys.
Point: nobody. Tracing at one con and derivative, background less mush art at the other means we all loose. Amazing pros like the ones I mentioned above are wins for everyone.
3. Networking potential: I'm always on the prowl for new connections and potential cool people. At furry cons I've lined up some awesome clients but have been either outright ignored by publishers (I was told my comics "weren't porny enough". Cool, good talk. Way to raise the bar) or even shadow banned from certain publications (artists don't like that I beat them at cons and thus, shit talk me to their friends.). At this comic con hugely successful artists and publishers were exceedingly polite and seemed genuinely interested in my work. I may make more money at fur cons but having publishers and artists act like human beings was a first.
Point: Comic Cons.
4. Artistic Freedom: I mentioned earlier how next to no one was doing original work at Wizard World and that it was sad. There may be no good furry comics etc...but at least some people are trying. Plus: as bad a rap as furries get for the whole porn thing I've noticed that the vast majority of my commissions aren't pornographic (I don't object to porn, I just don't want it to be all I do. That would be incredibly dull.) and that people are usually excited to see my take on their subject matter. I vastly prefer this to drawing endless fan art.
Point: Furry Cons.
5. Crazy People: at comic con we had some weirdos but furry has them beat by a mile. Hell, those goddamn chihuahua men alone are crazier than anything I saw at Wizard World.
Point Furry Cons.
6. Actual Comics: there weren't a lot of comics for sale at Wizard World and the ones that were were marked up heinously high. At furry cons there are comics for sale but I've only seen a scant few I'd even consider "good" come out of this community (Blacksad didn't come out of this community, it doesn't count).
Point: No one. Locking art behind price walls and being incapable of producing it are just two shitty sides to the same awful coin.
7. Deciding vote: there isn't one. It's an arbitrary tie because if I announced a "winner" I'd have to read more uninformed opinions than I care to, it's a dubious way to incense people and get a reaction out of them; really just manipulative. I made it a list/competition format so people MIGHT consider reading it. If you need a summation of my thoughts on the matter here it is: I love comics more than any other art form so I'm pretty critical of a lot of the aspects of them, including the venues I find them at. The furry community has been and will continue to be a great place for me to practice my craft in an environment of near absolute artistic freedom. The furry community could stand to expand its taste buds however; I want the most out of this community and meeting the incredible craftsmen who work outside of it has inspired me to only push my own art further and, hopefully, to push others too. This isn't an "us vs. them" thing, despite my ingenious framing device. "Us vs. them" is a dullard's way of viewing the world when we could be learning and bettering ourselves by analyzing other communities, genres, and individuals.
Feel free to take this as a hostile attack on your favorite genre (it's not).
-Bone
FA+

Working at the Yu-Gi-Oh stall area for London MCM last weekend was fun, seeing furries and fursuiters (even telling a fursuiter to go fluff-up one of my co-workers was pretty fun) :3
Though telling people that I wasn't going to ConFuzzled meant that my arrival there made my diversion worth it, hanging out with friends meant that I was able to enjoy the very precious time I had with them but knowing that I had skipped out on a chance to be with them for longer did make me a bit sad - que sara sara.
You'll get furries and fursuiters at comic/anime cons, but you won't get the reverse without the "outsiders" being shunned for walking around like a Stormstrooper or not being in fursuit.
Also, you seem to have awarded a point to furry cons for having more crazy people. Is this a plus? Some might think so! :)
As an additional data point, my one trip to the Game Developers Conference in San Francisco several years ago revealed an extremely high number of "smelly people, clueless chatterboxes, alpha-nerds, and all the other things that annoy me at a fur con." They're everywhere, and I was pretty amazed, though I should not have been.
Also: I love the antics of mad men.
I'm surprised GDC was like that; I hear that it's a hipster spawning ground these days,
As for GDC, the fanboys, pros, aspiring pros, and wannabes all mix together. It's quite a concoction.
Plus I do go to both furry and comic cons, but more so on furry ones since thier cheaper to go to. Wizard world comic con stl is fun and all ,but expensive as shit to get in :c
On a side note I texted the number you gave me but got no response; need an address to send your badge to!
When you can't spent 40 hours/week on something, you need to pick and choose what you do more than when it's your day job.
The same way I wouldn't expect the same level of technical knowhow from my buddy who dabs in car repairs compared to a dealership's mechanic, you ultimately get what you pay for.
I think that the price:quality ratio is a fairer method of comparing those two, but that's my take on it (and, when regarding this, then I find that furry has much more appeal than comics at comic cons).
As for networking potential, there is hardly any way you could network the same way at furry conventions compared to comic conventions.
Seeing as Forbes has described, as far as market value is concerned, the furry fandom as a "viable sub-marketing group" because "{furries} tend to have {high amounts} of disposable income compared to other sub-groups and/or communities", versus an established and "known" quantity (all things being relative, obviously) fandom like comics which is, in all things, a primary market group at this point, you cannot expect the same.
Though I agree with many points, I think that comparing them side-by-side instead of through potential ratios or relative values (let's face it - AC being the biggest furcon manages nearly what, 5.5K attendees, whereas SDCC gets upwards of 30K... Not the same league at all) is flawed at its core as far as comparison go.
One more thing to keep in mind: comic conventions tend to be "for profit" (IE: the organizers tend to be companies that ultimately make a profit out of those events and a few people get paycheques out of it) whereas furry conventions tend to be fan-based only (everyone does all that metric crapload of work for free), which in turns explains the difference in prices.
In my final words, I may be a "silent watcher" most of the time, but I do love your comic so far (I really should learn to speak out more, shouldn't I?) and can't wait to see which direction you take it.
Anyway, love your work and hope to see you keep getting better!
Glad you like my comic though!
I'm a sucker for "Humans VS Anthros" (not necessarily in a conflict sense, but how would society as a whole deal with that reality - kind of why I've been trying for years to write my "Alphawatch" novella-ish thing that dabs exactly in that bucket) and yours, so far, shows a lot of potential and interest.
I still think it's too early for me to judge, but the art quality sure is helping and you seem to start getting into the meat of the subject matter slowly, so I'm really eager to see what you do with the world you've created. :3
And this was my Fanboy Moment, brought to you by Sleeplessness and Exhaustion.
That went through my head like a sniper's bullet when I read the first part of the journal.
I've never been to a comic-con or a furcon before so I can't really speak for it. But you know I share your "please for the love of god let's do something other than porn" stance. Like you, I've got no issues with smut, and I like me a well-crafted sex scene, but it's really oversaturated. It'll keep the fandom going, but that doesn't make it interesting. That's all I've really got to say.[/preachingtothechoir]
NOW BACK TO THE ADVENTURES OF KIT JASPERING. THESE ARE REAL THINGS THAT REALLY HAPPENED TO KIT JASPERING. THE PENALTY FOR QUESTIONING THIS PROGRAM'S ACCURACY IS DEATH BY SCORPIONS SO ENJOY YOUR MANDATORY VIEWING OF THE ADVENTURES OF KIT JASPERING. WRITTEN AND DIRECTED BY KIT JASPERING, MADE BY ANIMATORS WHOLE VOLUNTARILY LEFT THEIR FAMILIES AND REFUSED PAYMENT TO DUE TO THEIR LOVE OF KIT JASPERING [PLEASE SAVE US].
"MY LORD JASPERING, YOUR UTOPIA PLAN FOR THE WORLD'S BEST NATION HAS SUCCEEDED. THERE IS ONLY ONE PROBLEM, O GLORIOUS FERRET OF VIRILITY. IT SEEMS THAT THE FURRY AND COMIC FANDOMS ARE FULL OF ENORMOUS FAGGOTS..."
Etc etc.
Oh, and I thought furry cons were just about the porn and sex.....or was that just the early ones?
I'm sorry if that sounds too judgmental: I really do not intend it as a judgment of right vs. wrong, just as a matter of preference. It seems like it takes a lot of dedication (time and money) to attend a con, and I just don't think I'd enjoy it enough to bother with it.
And I totally agree with you about comics. I think that quality comics are my favorite form of art in the furry community, and it is unfortunate that the market so heavily favors sex comics to the exclusion of everything else. Although I've found that some of my all-time fav comics are able to blend in the sex with a fantastic storyline and breathtaking artwork such that the sex feels like it's just another part of the comic, rather than the entire point. But it is for the best that artists and consumers are free to make their own choices about these things, otherwise you get entire genres of comics (spanning thousands of issues/volumes) where it's so cookie-cutter formulaic that its only seldom worth reading (*cough* *almost all mainstream superhero comics and almost all manga* *cough*).
My interest in anthro characters actually started in the 70s, long before a fandom existed.
So I've seen furry fandom from its beginnings, and its changed...A lot.
Furry fannish activity used to be centered around fanzines, and there was a lot of incentive to draw comics.
The attitude back in the day was that pretty pictures were nice- But no one would really be that interested in what you id till you produced some actual story.
Furry porn existed, but it was pretty rare, and about 98% hetero in nature.
There were a lot of print furry comics in the 80s and 90s.
Most weren't very good, but they existed.
The internet changed the fandom in several ways, but the way it changed the most was when art archives started popping up.
Suddenly artists could get attention simply from single pics, and there was no peer pressure to produce actual comics or illustrated text stories.
So fanzines started becoming more pinup oriented, and comics started disappearing.
This was about mid to late 90s, but I can't give you a specific date or year that the shift began, because looking back, its impossible to say exactly when it started changing that way.
The sudden shift to huge amounts of gay and transgender art is fairly recent.
I prefer female art myself, so I haven't paid much attention to whats going on with that.
For me, I started reading comics as a small child, and my mother taught me and my sister to read using comics at around 4 years old.
So I have a special place in my heart for them.
I discovered underground comics in my early teens with something called "Harold Hedd- Wings over Tijuana".
And the incredible artistic freedom in that and other books really blew me away.
Hell, I still randomly spout quotes from that book- Almost 35 years after I first read it!
So I wanted to become a comics artist.
I couldn't draw for shit, but that didn't stop me.
I started going to comics conventions sometime in the mid 80s- I actually can't recall which one I went to first.
Met a lot of pros over the years, had a great time.
Eventually, I started working for SFA. (Shanda Fantasy Arts.)
And got to call myself a comics pro, because I'd been printed and paid for it.
That was good for a pro badge at San Diego Comicon every year, but it didn't mean anything more than that.
In time though, San Diego Comicon became all about the movie promos and the Big Comics Companies, and the small press types got squeezed further and further into the corners of the basement until I stopped finding it fun anymore.
So I stopped going to comics cons.
Too much crowding, too few people I wanted to see.
I kept getting pro pre-registration paperwork from Comicon until a couple years ago, but the massive crowds freak me out, and I'll most likely never go again.
Theres smaller comics conventions up in LA and locally, but I'm not as interested in doing comics again.
It just seems like the furry population doesn't buy comics anymore.
Well...They'll buy some types of porn comics.
But most of the porn being printed isn't very good, or its subject matter does not appeal to me.
These days, the furry comics I want to read are usually online only.
I buy the print collections of the ones I like eagerly, but not that many artists doing webcomics that I like actually do collected books.
Its been a long and interesting trip....
And I am still finding new and cool stuff and people in furry fandom.
So I plan to stick around a while.
-Badger-
Go BBS'in..!
Its not everyday I get to reminisce about the good old days when I was huge comic book fan.
Its kind of weird.
In a lot of ways, I feel I am done with comics.
But I still feel the urge to tell stories.
I just can't get anything to gel enough to put down on paper.
I really feel like I have at least one last, great, story in me.
But who knows if it'll ever find its way out through my pencil?
-Badger-
You went to a Wizard World convention, which are a kind of cookie-cutter con that runs in many different cities, and doesn't have much in the way of specialized programming or opportunities to make money (hence why all the fanart). It's basically impossible to go to a WW con with an original comic that isn't already super well-known and expect to make any money. For instance, I wouldn't make any money if I just took Sakana stuff, but my Regular Show and Adventure Time stuff would probably sell pretty well. What they ARE good for, as you've realized, is networking with artists and publishers already working in the industry. I keep getting invited to WW cons every year as a guest, but I haven't had the opportunity to attend one yet :[
Also WW cons are super different from like, Sand Diego Comic Con or Heroescon in Charlotte or Supercon in Miami. IT'S HARD TO KEEP IT ALL STRAIGHT.
But I'm glad you guys had a good time!