They are taught they are always right and not listen to anyone else. You can't reason with bigotry.



Faith:
Oh, there's hate in all kinds of people. Religious and non religious. If you're going to group religious people as hateful you might as well group all people by religion, ethnicity, etc. That's what's wrong with people. Everyone is so freaking quick to judge. A lot of people assume that because I'm fat I eat non stop. I'm vegetarian and I starve myself sometimes up to two weeks at a time. I have lost almost 70 pounds in less than a year. I'm fat because of medications and health issues but you can't tell that to people because all they see is a fat person who stuffs her face. Do you see where I'm going with this? Never judge a book by it's cover. Not all Christians are bullies! Have a good night. I think I'm done with this conversation.

Me:
Sure thing. Don't want to stress you out if you're working hard to lose weight. Negative impulses causes stress eating. I know. Used to weigh in the 240s, now i'm in the 160s.

You tell me stuff I already know. I'm not so ignorant as to group everyone into a single category because of a single individual, where they're from, color of their skin or what they believe. I was giving an example on why some feel threatened and it's not just the fact some people and their beliefs are against human rights, it's also the fact that what transpires in a religious household is actual brain-washing. Full on programming and indoctrination that a child undergoes in their psychological development, controlling every single thought they have and the way they perceive the world. You can't deny that. While some things are good, there are also some bad things about this.

Faith:
I disagree. It's not brainwashing and God's ways are the best way. I don't overeat so there's no worries on the stress eating. Again, another assumption. It's not brainwashing to teach your children right from wrong and to teach them the Bible and to have a relationship with God. You just keep putting your foot in deeper, don't you? Why don't you think before you speak. America was a more peaceful place to live in and people had better values when the country was founded on God. That you have to admit. This country has gone to Hell since they have been trying to take God out of it. As I said, I'm done with this conversation. Find someone else to argue with now. Have a great night. I will be praying for you.

Me:
This is something of a long read so get back to it later if you want.
Before you start reading, ask yourself, will you stop reading because it's too long? Will you stop reading because it's an opinion that contradicts your own? Will you stop reading because you don't trust yourself to read another man's thoughts and opinions because you might sway, even though you once gave in and believed what another man, a preacher told you. Does one have to become a preacher, for someone to listen?

If you want someone to respect your opinions, it's a two way street. You have to respect theirs as well. You can't just huff and run off from an exchange of thoughts just because they differ from yours.

don't assume i'm trying to offend you, while it seems like it, don't assume i'm trying to get you to disbelieve in God.

Now, in accordance with your comment;


Exactly. Back in the days when slavery was ok, women had little to no rights, homosexuality was a capital offense if not subject to ridiculous sentences etc etc. You've got to see it from my standpoint. We have history that shows us what life was like in the past. It wasn't all flowers and candy as you made it sound. There have been crazy stuff that happened in the name of Christianity. The Chrusade. Salem Witch Trials. Joan of Arc. All you are being taught is all the good things that have been done (with the exception of sin) and don't realize what has been done under the name of Christianity. We have history, actual factual records of events. You offer nothing but opinion and "faith," and sorry for saying so, but for a being that has something against gambling, going on faith alone seems a pretty big gamble with your life. So yes, this is an important matter, because believe it or not, Christians try to play a part in politics and try to control people's rights, their livelihood, etc etc. Also, you must not seem to understand the definition of indoctrination. You see it as you teaching your child ways of the bible and having a relationship with God because that's how you've been indoctrinated, that's how you've been taught to think and now, you're instilling it into kids before their mind can fully develop and instill those teachings into their head so they can't think for themselves, it's all they will know and all they will trust. (More on the psychology stuff later.)

The belief in God is good and all, it's religion that I have a problem with. I mean, how can you really refute Islam? They have as much truth to their religion as you do yours with your logic. So how can you say one faith or denomination is false over the other? (Of course there are obvious cults)

If you think about it, you're trusting a man to deliver you the supposed word of God, you're trusting a book made by man's hands (which was made centuries after His supposed death) So really, you're not trusting the word of God, you're trusting the word of man.

I mean centuries is a vast amount of time to study humankind and the way they act and develop, figuring out social structure and mannerisms etc etc. We have social experiments today to literally see how easily it is for one to be controlled and conform to something they'd initially think was "weird," and it didn't even take a full day.

One could use psychology to easily debunk religion. I've seen many examples, like studies of humans' social interaction. How they act within controlled settings with how everyone else acts. When I saw these tests on people (forget what the show and episode was, walked in on brother watching it) I was fascinated by it. To see how one could psychologically control a person's actions through another person's actions. It was weird, watching someone conform or be indoctrinated to act or think a certain way so easily. In the demonstration, all they needed was one person to do a specific action and a buzzer (that all could hear) to signal the person to carry out that action. At first the test subject was like "WTF" but after a few buzzes he started mimicking the actor. They introduce another person into the room and again after a few buzzes would do what the others were doing. Now after one by one the room getting fuller with people doing the same action, it took less buzzes for the new ones to quickly follow in line.

The next test was an auditorium with a "guest speaker." They had a few actors in the crowd. The test was to see if they could get the whole auditorium to applaud the guest speaker if he made no sense, whatsoever. He started out with a subject and was sounding intelligent through it, part way through he started giving these anecdotes and metaphors that was completely off subject and made no sense whatsoever. At the end of the lecture, no one was applauding. So in the second lecture, they would have the actors at the end of the lecture to applaud and this encouraged others (even though they didn't understand) to follow suit and actually felt a satisfaction from it.

Showing how easily people get goaded into acting a certain way, how are we supposed to look at those who attend church? Those two social experiments alone show what kind of psychological phenomenons take effect when in a social setting. Now if adults can be conformed so easily, what are we to think about kids being raised in a church? Taught specific things without being able to think for themselves. Controlling every single thought and action they make and essentially controlling their thoughts and actions from the git-go.

This is why I have a problem with conformity and try to retain my freedom of thought and question everything, even the bible. I look at the bible and think "how can I trust this?" It was after all written by a man's hand. How can I trust this man? It's been "rectified" and translated many times, adding "new discoveries" to it.


To me the bible is more people who put propaganda into a book to follow a certain order to try and create some their vision of a utopia. The biggest tool, and it's a very effective tool, to get people's minds swayed is fear. Even I have that "what if" lingering in the back of my head thanks to forceful attendance to church my father put me through. For a little while I believed it, then my eyes opened. I started looking at the world, how people acted, noticing what kind of attend a church, mosque, cathedral, or whatever have you and if you actually pay attention, it's just wow. I've been in a lot of religious debate. The problem with debating a person of faith? You're taught to always believe you're right, so you're close minded and tunnel visioned.People of faith tend to use fallacies in their logic to sway a person's opinion or win the argument. They'll introduce slippery slopes, strawman fallacies, etc etc. Things that do not work. For example.

I had an argument with someone about what I said before, where this catholic school (in south america i believe it was) got into someone's privacy, faculty navigating through his confiscated phone to find him kissing his BF and then they put him through a plethora of troubles until he finally committed suicide. I argued that we should not do this to kids. Call them names, tell them they're sick, they need help, keep them from seeing his friends and family didn't support him and making him feel so alone he offed himself.

This was the religious defender's retort;


"1. Individuals may kill themselves, and have killed themselves because of (x)
2. Therefore we should not (x).

This is an absurd argument, because if we replace (x) with another true cause of suicide, the argument completely falls apart:

1. Individuals may kill themselves, and have killed themselves because of (break ups with a boyfriend/girlfriend)
2. Therefore we should not (break up with a boyfriend/girlfriend).
(which is absurd)"

Stupid logic. two completely different subjects intended to sway their opinion. This only works on the ignorant and uneducated, because the 2nd example he manipulates the way one perceives the argument by making them think "this example makes sense, therefore, the first statement must make sense."

Some logic for you. Reading the "good book" doesn't make you a good person, not reading the "good book" doesn't make you a bad person. You are either good, or you're bad (excluding some situations like war). All the book was good for, was keeping the bad people in check by putting that fear of eternal punishment in them. While in a way this was some form of good that came from it, bad things also came from religion. Look at the middle east and how flawed their justice system is and how they treat homosexuals. Churches under the name of Christianity did that once upon a time. Remember Joan of Arc I mentioned earlier? She was religious and went into war because "God told her to." Granted I believe it was the opposing side that captured her, but it was the church that burned her at the stake as a heretic for wearing men's clothing while in prison. She had to wear said clothing to protect herself from the guards and when they amended that, the guards continued to give her men's clothing instead of women's after a time to convince the church she had fallen off the wagon and returned to heresy, so they burned her t the stake.

So you see, it doesn't matter which age we live in. You may THINK life back then was better, assuredly it was not, and if it was, it was only for certain people. There's always good and bad no matter what time period we're in. You just think today is worse because with technology, we can see just about everything.

Thanks for taking the time to read. Believe in God if you will, but don't speak words as truth when you can't prove it as such. Note that I'm not calling you a liar.


Faith:
It's 1;27 in the freaking morning! Go find someone else to argue with! I'm not listening to your crap anymore. You're one second away from getting cussed out and I have made men tougher than you run. BACK OFF! I'm trying to be nice but you're pissing me off now! I'm not going to give in and agree with you no matter how much you try to harass me. I'll just end up putting you in your place and go about my business. That's not what you want. I'm not as nice as I look. God said I have to love and forgive. He never said I have to be your doormat. Back off NOW!

Me:
That is why people like you have no respect and will never get respect. I thought we could have an intelligent conversation, but you're complete tunnel visioned, close minded and actually pretty rude. If "bigger men" than I have run away, it's because they are good people and don't want to show you your place. Taking advantage of laws and "white knights" so you can attack other people is pretty much cowardice and the comment shows you off as the scum you are. Hey, i'm not forcing you to sit at the computer and continue to check your messages. In fact I told you to get back to it whenever. If it's your phone that's going off, then turn it off. Simple stuff. This is why people believe religious people are complete and utter retards. The implications are evident. Good day and have a nice life in that little whole of ignorance, you're so fond of. Don't bother praying for me, i'd rather have that honor from someone who is genuine. Pray for someone who believes you're genuine, or better yet, pray for yourself.