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#VATMOSS & taxes - Government gone wild
10 years ago
I might have posted a similar journal several months ago. Now that I've discovered more information on the issue, I will be posting a newer and longer update. Although I've calmed down after the initial shock, this might still be written in a personal tone so bare with me on that. I'll be cross posting this journal to several sites, to make sure that other people have a chance to find it and know what's going on, perhaps offer more feedback and clarification as well.
As you all know, near the beginning of the year I went ahead and setup my Patreon creator page. It was then that I found out about a legal change in the EU to the VAT taxation system and how it's applied online, known as VATMOSS and introduced in 1 January 2015. There was already news circulating that it might pose a threat to creators, and it already got me pretty paranoid at the time. I ultimately concluded that it's just an issue with payment transfers, and banks or transaction services (such as Paypal) would be the ones to solve it. A few days ago I received an email that alluded to the subject, so out of curiosity I decided to search a bit more and see what changed. What I discovered came as a shock.
First of all the basics, for anyone else who was unclear on how this works: VAT is not just a money transaction tax. It is a tax that can be applied to anyone at any time, when the government concludes they are making an income. I initially assumed that income taxes only apply to people who are legally employed, and have a signed physical contract to attest they have a job. I mean how else would your government determine that you're working? By following you around and catching you take money from people in everyday life? Apparently yes... that is exactly how it works. Not just in the EU but in most of the world as well, including America. Since I've never had to deal with financing to this depth, I had no idea this is the way things are done.
Although the very concept is still new to me and feels excessive in and of itself, I can at least see the reason in it. After all, it's logical that people who make money without legally signing a contract (by working online for instance) are accounted for certain taxes. What truly scared me regarding VATMOSS and taxing was the way in which this is done, and how far some interpretations can go. Hold on tightly... because if you have some sanity left, what you'll hear is probably going to blow it away:
If you, the everyday internet user, wants to sell any digital content online, be it on your own website or on a marketplace that doesn't handle tax data by itself, you are required to collect and send your users personal data along with tax money owed to your tax institution. Further more, you must do so for every individual country in the EU, unless you try to use the VATMOSS which is apparently just as complicated and evil. It doesn't matter if you make as little as $1, they are going to put you through this just for that.
But it doesn't stop there. Further research revealed even more disturbing truths... such as the fact that in America, the witch hunt goes even further than simply taxing you for an actual purchased product; If for example you mow your neighbor's lawn, and in return he gives you a drive to work, it's considered that you have received a service, and as such should be mailing the IRS to tell them about it and give them a few bucks. That's right people: If you help someone you know and in return they give you a beer, you are legally supposed to tell Big Brother about it in person, otherwise you are a criminal scum. You're also supposed to tell them if you find a 10$ bill on the street and pick it up, or again you are a lawbreaker.
Some say that even if an online game (like a MMORPG) has in-game currency to buy items or unlock powerups, even if it doesn't have anything to do with real life services, law enforcers might consider it's taxable and go after the players or developers. So wait... if I log into Minecraft and trade 8 diamonds for a stack of 64 iron with another player, I am supposed to email my real life tax authority and tell them about it? No, this is not a joke... it is something that the mind of man was able to conceive, whether this madness might ever be enforceable or not.
After I discovered these things, I went outside to take a 3 hour walk on the beach shore to think... mind you I take one at that hour normally. I have literally questioned whether either myself or those who make laws for the world I live on have completely lost their minds, and if trying to function in this society as a normal law abiding citizen is really just an illusion I've been sold. I truly feel like I have reached a point in life where I have seen everything that there was to see, human stupidity unleashed to its extreme, fanaticism in all its glory... and I'm not 80 years old, I'm only 26.
Since I know some will want to launch such accusations, no: I am not complaining about the fact that I have to pay taxes, or even about how big or little they are! I am solely complaining about the procedure, and how violent not to mention intrusive it can possibly be, especially for people who have no knowledge or resources in this domain. I'm already as sociophobic as it gets, with an added bonus for politicians and legal institutions, and another bonus for what I do on the internet and things like my art. Not to mention I have no idea how these procedures work, nor believe I should be forced to. I am not the creator of Facebook, I am not a businessman with a big suitcase, and I sincerely want none of it... I'm just someone trying to make a minimal living in this twisted system created by demented people. This is something anyone could be doing... even a 13 year old can use a website like Patreon, who would now have to email the state and say: "Dear government: Today I made a drawing of mommy and daddy, and someone gave me 10$ for it. Here is their IP address and billing information, as well as 1$ for the taxes". What world do we live on?
If the state is so desperate, the easiest solution would be transfer services like Paypal asking for your country / the service your payment represents / etc, for deducting and transferring all taxes accordingly. It would be a cinch for them to take this responsibility, and I don't for the life of me understand why it hasn't been done this way already. If you can't go with that or find another alternative, then add a bloody threshold to exempt individuals who make small incomes, which has been done in many cases for similar issues!
Because I have a Patreon page where I get donations for the art I make, I basically found this load of bullshit thrown on me overnight. If I am to treat these laws literally, I went to bed as a normal citizen and woke up as the patron of a large corporation... from a perspective of obligations that is. Really? I'm being given the responsibilities of people like Bill Gates and Microsoft over simply registering on a website and putting a link to Paypal in my profile? Oh yeah, I'm also a lawbreaker liable for fines or jail time now, for doing tax evasion of up to a few cents... alongside millions of other people in the same situation!
The good news is that, like most online marketplaces, Patreon eventually agreed to take care of VAT and similar procedures for their users. Thank you Patreon... I will eagerly await for your staff to turn me back into a law abiding citizen, since being a fugitive hiding in my bedroom hasn't been all that fun </sarcasm>. In any case, the fact that an irresponsible approach like this was even possible in Europe during year 2015 is terrifying, and I no longer know what to expect from this world or what to think at this stage.
If you spent the time to read this entire journal, thank you. Feel free to reply and post your opinion, as well as any corrections or extra information if you have any. Also share this if you wish, and please be on the lookout for any petitions that support sane taxation alternatives that respect the privacy / capabilities / knowledge of us "normal" people.
As you all know, near the beginning of the year I went ahead and setup my Patreon creator page. It was then that I found out about a legal change in the EU to the VAT taxation system and how it's applied online, known as VATMOSS and introduced in 1 January 2015. There was already news circulating that it might pose a threat to creators, and it already got me pretty paranoid at the time. I ultimately concluded that it's just an issue with payment transfers, and banks or transaction services (such as Paypal) would be the ones to solve it. A few days ago I received an email that alluded to the subject, so out of curiosity I decided to search a bit more and see what changed. What I discovered came as a shock.
First of all the basics, for anyone else who was unclear on how this works: VAT is not just a money transaction tax. It is a tax that can be applied to anyone at any time, when the government concludes they are making an income. I initially assumed that income taxes only apply to people who are legally employed, and have a signed physical contract to attest they have a job. I mean how else would your government determine that you're working? By following you around and catching you take money from people in everyday life? Apparently yes... that is exactly how it works. Not just in the EU but in most of the world as well, including America. Since I've never had to deal with financing to this depth, I had no idea this is the way things are done.
Although the very concept is still new to me and feels excessive in and of itself, I can at least see the reason in it. After all, it's logical that people who make money without legally signing a contract (by working online for instance) are accounted for certain taxes. What truly scared me regarding VATMOSS and taxing was the way in which this is done, and how far some interpretations can go. Hold on tightly... because if you have some sanity left, what you'll hear is probably going to blow it away:
If you, the everyday internet user, wants to sell any digital content online, be it on your own website or on a marketplace that doesn't handle tax data by itself, you are required to collect and send your users personal data along with tax money owed to your tax institution. Further more, you must do so for every individual country in the EU, unless you try to use the VATMOSS which is apparently just as complicated and evil. It doesn't matter if you make as little as $1, they are going to put you through this just for that.
But it doesn't stop there. Further research revealed even more disturbing truths... such as the fact that in America, the witch hunt goes even further than simply taxing you for an actual purchased product; If for example you mow your neighbor's lawn, and in return he gives you a drive to work, it's considered that you have received a service, and as such should be mailing the IRS to tell them about it and give them a few bucks. That's right people: If you help someone you know and in return they give you a beer, you are legally supposed to tell Big Brother about it in person, otherwise you are a criminal scum. You're also supposed to tell them if you find a 10$ bill on the street and pick it up, or again you are a lawbreaker.
Some say that even if an online game (like a MMORPG) has in-game currency to buy items or unlock powerups, even if it doesn't have anything to do with real life services, law enforcers might consider it's taxable and go after the players or developers. So wait... if I log into Minecraft and trade 8 diamonds for a stack of 64 iron with another player, I am supposed to email my real life tax authority and tell them about it? No, this is not a joke... it is something that the mind of man was able to conceive, whether this madness might ever be enforceable or not.
After I discovered these things, I went outside to take a 3 hour walk on the beach shore to think... mind you I take one at that hour normally. I have literally questioned whether either myself or those who make laws for the world I live on have completely lost their minds, and if trying to function in this society as a normal law abiding citizen is really just an illusion I've been sold. I truly feel like I have reached a point in life where I have seen everything that there was to see, human stupidity unleashed to its extreme, fanaticism in all its glory... and I'm not 80 years old, I'm only 26.
Since I know some will want to launch such accusations, no: I am not complaining about the fact that I have to pay taxes, or even about how big or little they are! I am solely complaining about the procedure, and how violent not to mention intrusive it can possibly be, especially for people who have no knowledge or resources in this domain. I'm already as sociophobic as it gets, with an added bonus for politicians and legal institutions, and another bonus for what I do on the internet and things like my art. Not to mention I have no idea how these procedures work, nor believe I should be forced to. I am not the creator of Facebook, I am not a businessman with a big suitcase, and I sincerely want none of it... I'm just someone trying to make a minimal living in this twisted system created by demented people. This is something anyone could be doing... even a 13 year old can use a website like Patreon, who would now have to email the state and say: "Dear government: Today I made a drawing of mommy and daddy, and someone gave me 10$ for it. Here is their IP address and billing information, as well as 1$ for the taxes". What world do we live on?
If the state is so desperate, the easiest solution would be transfer services like Paypal asking for your country / the service your payment represents / etc, for deducting and transferring all taxes accordingly. It would be a cinch for them to take this responsibility, and I don't for the life of me understand why it hasn't been done this way already. If you can't go with that or find another alternative, then add a bloody threshold to exempt individuals who make small incomes, which has been done in many cases for similar issues!
Because I have a Patreon page where I get donations for the art I make, I basically found this load of bullshit thrown on me overnight. If I am to treat these laws literally, I went to bed as a normal citizen and woke up as the patron of a large corporation... from a perspective of obligations that is. Really? I'm being given the responsibilities of people like Bill Gates and Microsoft over simply registering on a website and putting a link to Paypal in my profile? Oh yeah, I'm also a lawbreaker liable for fines or jail time now, for doing tax evasion of up to a few cents... alongside millions of other people in the same situation!
The good news is that, like most online marketplaces, Patreon eventually agreed to take care of VAT and similar procedures for their users. Thank you Patreon... I will eagerly await for your staff to turn me back into a law abiding citizen, since being a fugitive hiding in my bedroom hasn't been all that fun </sarcasm>. In any case, the fact that an irresponsible approach like this was even possible in Europe during year 2015 is terrifying, and I no longer know what to expect from this world or what to think at this stage.
If you spent the time to read this entire journal, thank you. Feel free to reply and post your opinion, as well as any corrections or extra information if you have any. Also share this if you wish, and please be on the lookout for any petitions that support sane taxation alternatives that respect the privacy / capabilities / knowledge of us "normal" people.
Also, there are many Minecraft clones, most of them open-source. I'm a developer for one, and will be creating a large and complex game using the engine. It is... weird to say the least, to imagine this might be even remotely brought into discussion with it. One can only hope the army of fanatics doesn't reach thus far...
It also protects companies like wizards of the coast who run online card games. You pay for boosters you open that have cards in but never own those cards therefore allowing wizards to take the game offline whenever they want because it won't deny you of anything you own.
Just to be clear though: I'm not talking about games that allow you to exchange items for real life money, like Second Life's L$ or buying upgrades in World Of Warcraft with your real credit card. Just a normal game where you program an item to appear in a menu after a value increases past a certain threshold and that's it... something anyone can do with a few lines of code.
This is really just part of how you create your art, so if anyone would go after that it would be demented censorship more than anything. It would be like saying "a drawing you posted on Furaffinity shows a character holding money in his pocket, and these drawn money need to be taxed in real life". Obviously that's simply impossible and nuts... but when so many weird things happen, one has to be prepared for the worst to eventually occur, because people.
You're also supposed to tell them if you find a 10$ bill on the street and pick it up...
A friend of mine was fined $100 for refusing to surrender a $20 bill to police after finding it on the sidewalk a few years ago. How did the police find out? Who knows? But they actually tracked his car, detained him, and demanded the bill on the side of the road. He refused to give them the bill, and in return, the police issued him a citation for "civil disobedience."
One police precinct in Texas used the funds to purchase a margarita machine for the district attorney's office. No joke! It actually happened!
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/.....ryId=104065589
Although I clearly classify as a "progressive liberal", this is one reason why I don't support weapon bans in America like most liberals do: People might need them to defend themselves from their government, in case laws and authority completely spiral out of control. If they want citizens to give up their weapons, the police and CIA and similar should do the same... although I don't imagine that working out of course.
In any case, political and corporational corruption is perhaps one of the most dangerous issues present in the world right now. And it is a worldwide problem: It exists in America, in Europe, and even more in other continents and countries. This word will turn into a disaster zone eventually, if people don't realize how bad this is and take steps to put an end to it once and for all. The world can no longer handle this sort of situation... we've reached the point where enough is enough.
First reason is that, Patreon announced supporting #VATMOSS on 11-03-2015, as can be seen here: https://www.patreon.com/posts/1817433 I believe I got the first payment on 01-07-2015, which is 4 months later. Common sense dictates that this was enough time for them to have implemented the VAT system. If for some reason they haven't by now, I seriously think it's not my responsibility at this point... they announced they'll take care of it (the only possible option) and I'm simply going with what I am told.
Second reason is that to my knowledge, all patrons I have so far are from America. I can't confirm this beyond any doubt, but it's based on what I remember from their accounts. This problem only applies to creators (from any country) that have patrons from the EU.