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A little psa...
10 years ago
(This is in regards to a discussion I was having with someone.)
Being civil to genuinely rude people doesn't stop them from hurting you and never will, but being rude back to them isn't the answer either; it just means you are stooping to their level, and you'll never be able to stop bigotry (in this case, transphobia) that way. There are ways to fight against and even eradicate it (not wholly, unfortunately, but at least on a case-by-case basis), without tossing around insults, which will never get anything resolved. I firmly believe in the Golden Rule, and as much as I've been hurt by others myself over the years (or perhaps because of it), I still do my best to abide by it. There will always be the true bigots out there, who don't care whom they hurt, and will keep on doing it even asked repeatedly to stop; there is nothing much you can do for them, sadly. But then there are those who just make a honest mistake, and may have made an insensitive comment at some time or other, because they don't know the proper etiquette or the right terms to use, or just forgot/weren't thinking momentarily, and no one bothered to explain to them at the time why such a comment can be hurtful to a transperson. Those people generally don't mean to be rude, and don't even realize they are being rude, and therefore will try afterwards to be more sensitive and think their comments through before posting them, if just given a polite reminder.
I for one, was raised very "old school" (in the Deep South), plus I'm an old fart, and thus it took me a long time to undo two and a half decades of fundamentalist brainwashing, and begin to understand all the nuances of the various gender identities and their nomenclature (especially since it has evolved a lot over the past three decades). I still don't have all the terms down, though I'm trying my best to learn them, on behalf of all my trans friends, whom I love and respect dearly, and I try to stand up/speak out for them as often as I can. I don't believe (as did this other person) that someone is automatically "transphobic" if they make an honest mistake. It wasn't something I did in this case (though I have made such mistakes myself, like accidentally referring to a transperson as the wrong gender, or saying that I have "girly bits"*), but I was more speaking on behalf of my friends who have done this, even though I know for a fact that they are all very trans-friendly and supportive people, just as much as I am. IMO, calling someone transphobic is basically the same as calling someone homophobic, which implies fear, hatred, intolerance and wilful ignorance, and not everyone who just makes a slip-up is automatically a trans-hating troll. So rather than lumping them together with the true bigots, try instead to be civil and take the time to educate those who mean well, but may not fully understand, or gently remind those who maybe just forgot; you'll get a whole lot further that way, trust me. :)
~SD
(*If I know a person for many years as being one gender, and then they later switch genders, it can take my brain awhile to adjust to it, and I may accidentally slip-up and refer to them as their previous gender, but I do sincerely apologize for it whenever I catch myself doing it. And thankfully, all my close trans friends are very kind and patient with me if I screw up. This particular discussion, however, was specifically about those who have responded to the question: "what is your gender?" with a reference to their genitals, which I've seen several of my trans-friendly friends do on con memes and such, and even I've done in the past, by saying "I have girly bits". It doesn't mean we are transphobic, or trying to disrespect transpeople; it never even occurred to me that someone could be deeply offended by it, but know that I know, I won't be using that reference anymore. So if I--or anyone--ever says something that inadvertently comes across as rude or hurtful, please kindly TELL US right away, so we can resolve it. The last thing I want to do is offend any one of my friends, and sometimes may not even realize that I have. If you don't tell us, we won't know, and unresolved offences can turn into grudges over time.)
Being civil to genuinely rude people doesn't stop them from hurting you and never will, but being rude back to them isn't the answer either; it just means you are stooping to their level, and you'll never be able to stop bigotry (in this case, transphobia) that way. There are ways to fight against and even eradicate it (not wholly, unfortunately, but at least on a case-by-case basis), without tossing around insults, which will never get anything resolved. I firmly believe in the Golden Rule, and as much as I've been hurt by others myself over the years (or perhaps because of it), I still do my best to abide by it. There will always be the true bigots out there, who don't care whom they hurt, and will keep on doing it even asked repeatedly to stop; there is nothing much you can do for them, sadly. But then there are those who just make a honest mistake, and may have made an insensitive comment at some time or other, because they don't know the proper etiquette or the right terms to use, or just forgot/weren't thinking momentarily, and no one bothered to explain to them at the time why such a comment can be hurtful to a transperson. Those people generally don't mean to be rude, and don't even realize they are being rude, and therefore will try afterwards to be more sensitive and think their comments through before posting them, if just given a polite reminder.
I for one, was raised very "old school" (in the Deep South), plus I'm an old fart, and thus it took me a long time to undo two and a half decades of fundamentalist brainwashing, and begin to understand all the nuances of the various gender identities and their nomenclature (especially since it has evolved a lot over the past three decades). I still don't have all the terms down, though I'm trying my best to learn them, on behalf of all my trans friends, whom I love and respect dearly, and I try to stand up/speak out for them as often as I can. I don't believe (as did this other person) that someone is automatically "transphobic" if they make an honest mistake. It wasn't something I did in this case (though I have made such mistakes myself, like accidentally referring to a transperson as the wrong gender, or saying that I have "girly bits"*), but I was more speaking on behalf of my friends who have done this, even though I know for a fact that they are all very trans-friendly and supportive people, just as much as I am. IMO, calling someone transphobic is basically the same as calling someone homophobic, which implies fear, hatred, intolerance and wilful ignorance, and not everyone who just makes a slip-up is automatically a trans-hating troll. So rather than lumping them together with the true bigots, try instead to be civil and take the time to educate those who mean well, but may not fully understand, or gently remind those who maybe just forgot; you'll get a whole lot further that way, trust me. :)
~SD
(*If I know a person for many years as being one gender, and then they later switch genders, it can take my brain awhile to adjust to it, and I may accidentally slip-up and refer to them as their previous gender, but I do sincerely apologize for it whenever I catch myself doing it. And thankfully, all my close trans friends are very kind and patient with me if I screw up. This particular discussion, however, was specifically about those who have responded to the question: "what is your gender?" with a reference to their genitals, which I've seen several of my trans-friendly friends do on con memes and such, and even I've done in the past, by saying "I have girly bits". It doesn't mean we are transphobic, or trying to disrespect transpeople; it never even occurred to me that someone could be deeply offended by it, but know that I know, I won't be using that reference anymore. So if I--or anyone--ever says something that inadvertently comes across as rude or hurtful, please kindly TELL US right away, so we can resolve it. The last thing I want to do is offend any one of my friends, and sometimes may not even realize that I have. If you don't tell us, we won't know, and unresolved offences can turn into grudges over time.)
The autism group is a constant war with itself.. people gets so offended about the little things, they miss the big picture. They make an enemy out of ally, because of semantics. Quite stupid really.
The problem is, what is a okay with one person is not okay with another, so don't get your panties in a bunch and just correct the person that you would prefer to be called 'xyz'. That simple. If a trans person is ok with saying "I have girly bits" then that is THEIR choice.. so silly for others to make a big deal out of it, if it is not a big deal to them.
Being an autism parent (as in, autistic and a parent to an autistic child) we encounter it a lot with the whole 'people first' language. Some people get super riled up if you say "you have autism" rather than "I am autistic". I can think of dozen more groups with internal struggles like that... such a waste of time.
As for not hurling insults back, that's a good policy in my opinion. It might feel dumb to just "let someone talk to you like that" and it might be tempting to lash out at them, but as you pointed out - and as I keep reminding myself - there are people who are genuinely bigoted, and there are people who say thing by mistake or ignorance. Neither category is going to get better by having an insult hurled at them. The former will just see it as proof of your inferiority, the latter will get hurt and not know what they did to deserve it. And besides, why be the one to escalate the conflict in either case? You're just risking it coming to blows.
I mean... I could see myself using some variation of "boobs" to indicate my own gender - because FOR ME, my sex very much DOES determine my gender - I call myself female because I've got tits, and I'd be just as happy calling myself male if I sported a weiner. Does that mean I would do the same for my trans friends, or insist that every other person must do so? Absolutely not. My personal gender identity is based on "I don't give enough of a fuck" and is pretty much a footnote in the figurative novel that makes up Me The Person.
To me, at least, that kind of context would seem to be important, too - WHY is a person using particular language, and would they do so in other contexts? (When it comes to con memes, I could also see people wanting to avoid confusion by indicating how they present, I guess?)
It's important to be respectful to others regardless of what disagreements you may have - if nothing else you never know when something you said out of irritation will come back and bite you in the butt. I've seen way too many carefully-cropped chat logs thrown around social media, and giving as good as you get is a very good way if increasing your chances of being the subject of one of them. I obviously don't know the exact disagreement/situation you're talking about, but I know for myself, I was pretty obnoxiously pro-GLB (trans wasn't really on my radar at that point) in my teens, making a lot of noise in my own little space about people misusing 'gay' or otherwise acting 'homophobic'. For some of the people being quick to throw *phobia or *ism accusations around, that's no doubt the case.
Sadly, there's also a lot of people who've realized that the quickest way of "winning" a discussion is to accuse the other party of *phobia or *ism, because those are things we can all pretty much agree are objectively Bad Traits, and any excuses or explanations after that point can be dismissed as being the "I Have A Gay Friend" excuse. Using those terms as bludgeons would to me seem just as disrespectful to the marginalized group as the original comment, but evidently not everyone sees it that way.
I two am an "Old Fart" but because I posses an "open mind" and try my Very best to understand what the next person is going through or at least understand Their point of view, I guess I thought Humanity was beyond such simple and frivolous disrespect of others. It sounds to me that this person was simply hell bent on proving Their point that they felt you were wrong. Or perhaps they were suffering from some sort of personal issues regarding the subject and were simply to narrow minded to realize the point you were trying to convey.
I don't know.......I just don't understand why people simply can not except others for Who they are instead of feeling it so important to point out their differences.
I, who look very feminine, get misgendered every day, all the time - partly because I'm not out to everyone yet, partly because my friends and family are having a hard time thinking of me as male or neutral. I completely understand - my best friend is FtM and when he changed to masculine pronouns it was hard to get accustomed to at first. (Note - it's still okay to call me by feminine pronouns, 'cuz I know it's hard xD )
Misgendering can be such a huge deal for people. It's delicate stuff, and that's why I think some trans people get so angry about it and immediately call others transphobic.
I believe in being honest with each other, and in a polite and respecting way asking if you're unsure. "What pronouns do you prefer?", is a wonderful question, and when I get asked this I get very happy, because I know the person I'm talking to is showing me respect. If one accidentally misgenders someone, apologize, and try not to do it again. If you get misgendered, correct the other person in a polite way, and explain what pronouns you prefer.
Yes, there are true bigots out there, people who are genuinely transphobic, but most people have good intentions. And, as you say, educating and gently reminding them will take you a long way! c:
*presses like-button for this journal*
All of this! When someone is in a social gathering and can't tell what to call someone right off the bat, it's very embarrassing and they get worried they'll look stupid or insensitive, most of the time it's hardly their fault. And you never know who will get offended when someone has to come right out and ask "Do you prefer "he" or "she?" (because I've seen it happen sadly). I'm always very understanding and sympathetic with people in situations like that, because even though most of the time I'm not uncomfortable, they might be.
It's a delicate thing for some people yes, but if we can all be respectful and open to mature discussion about it, it doesn't have to feel like stepping in a social minefield for either party.
I use they and them till its corrected, or it just stays that way. I he/she mess up on everyone. I also mess up names. My family has a running joke of calling me george because I can't remember names well. I'm also slightly dyslexic, use A instead of I when typing? I am derp. I warn people of it.
I admit I'm a bit jaded towards some people but I refuse to be so far gone to assume the worst of everyone, because most people are surprise surprise not actually actively malicious most of the time, regardless of what some cynics might think. Myself and the spouse very recently came out publicly in some online circles that we are also trans, and it's still difficult for us to talk about and come to terms with, especially when talking to others. I absolutely will not hold it against someone if they get confused because it is hardly their fault, and it's something that takes getting used to, not only for myself but those around me that are used to perceiving me slightly differently. I'm not any different as a person, but gender and sexual identity is ingrained in our social instincts and relationships. There's no getting away from that simple fact.
On the other side of the fence, neither should fellow trans people immediately jump down the throats of those that make legitimate, honest mistakes. I don't like the mentality of "assuming the worst" with everything, it's toxic and damages being able to relate to people on deeper levels and also clouds empirical and logical thinking. Also gives the community as a whole an adverse and negative image and makes it harder for some to take us seriously as people. If someone doesn't understand or mis-genders you but are still open to learn, educate! Give them more context! Also if strangers constantly mis-gender you it's likely you aren't doing a good enough job at passing but that's an entirely different discussion.
I agree with you 100%. There are real bigots out there that want to spread their vitriol just because there's a gender, sexuality, race or religion that they don't like. But knee-jerk calling anyone who just slips up or doesn't understand or are just ignorant "transphobic" makes light of it and devalues what it means into a simple buzzword. It becomes a "Boy Who Cried Wolf" scenario quickly.
We ain't perfect, none of us are. People should be respectful and not assume we're living in your head reading your thoughts (goes both ways). People are forgetful. We're creatures of habit. There are real shitty people out there, yes. But sometimes it's just a person having a shitty day instead. People on either side can stand to have less cynicism and more empathy.
Unnecessarily long comment aside, it's basically just me echoing and seconding all of your points, hah.
You are such a precious person and I am so glad you are around <3. Thank you.
But where I live, I'm not in contact with the trans community. If one resembles a man, I'll use "he", if one resembles a woman, I'll use "she".
I've unwatched artists (not telling names) who insisted there weren't men but transmen. I don't get why they'd need to call a man from birth "cis-male" and insist about that.
and beside, there are social justice warriors who aren't even FtM nor MtF.
It's like the majority of people are cis dudes and cis gals. Changing the entire language and policy is silly, though I do appreciate forms that ask 'What's your preferred Name/gender?' etc.
But yeah sorry you had to deal with that. It's bullshit.
I think this is more about how much one can accept mistakes.
Some people always expect the worst, while others would even assume that dooming the world was an honest mistakes.
I also agree with you, being transphobic is a whole other level. Actual biggots don't make mistakes, and they usually comes from both venues.