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Ever wonder why noone gives constructive crit any more????
10 years ago
Su cuy'gar ner vode!
It's because probably 90% of the time the person asking for constructive criticism DO NOT ACTUALLY WANT CRIT, they only want gushing praise. This means that when people who take the time and yes, EFFORT, to give good constructive criticism are often wasting their time on people who won't take any crit and who don't want to improve.
Do you know how that makes people who give good crit feel? Like they just burned up a wad of time, that will NEVER be theirs again, trying to help people who never wanted help to begin with.
Let me make a suggestion: if you want praise, FUCKING MAN UP AND FUCKING ASK FOR IT. I'm sure you've seen some of my image descriptions where I cheerily "fanboy" my own stuff. I am not going to ask for crit when secretly wanting praise or recognition, I have the mental acuity and emotional stability to be able to ask for positive attention.
Here's the thing, every time someone gets burned trying to give constructive criticism at an artist's request, THEY ARE THAT MUCH MORE LIKELY TO SAY "FUCK IT" AND STOP HELPING ARTISTS IN THE FUTURE. It doesn't hurt anyone to say "I'm really proud of how such-and-such in this image turned out" or "OMG I ROCKED THAT PART OF THIS IMAGE LOOK AT IT I'M AWESOME" or "I just want to draw attention to the part there that I like best." It DOES hurt people to ask for "constructive criticism" when what is really wanted is just praise, praise, and more praise. And you know who it hurts???
BUDDING ARTISTS WHO REALLY NEED AND -WANT- CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM. That's who it hurts. The people who've been burned over and over who STOP giving crit? They might have a way to help but they no longer feel wanted and appreciated for their assistance. They stop helping. And artists who once upon a time could have counted on their peers for improvement suggestions are left instead with masturbatory fan-servicing and praise-gushing.
So if you want praise, fucking ask for it! There's no law that says you can't ask for positive attention, damnit! But do NOT fuck with people who give constructive criticism earnestly and honestly, because you are screwing other artists out of their wisdom and experience.
Now, I am not saying people should wander around harshly critiquing artists here on FA. Constructive crit needs to be given when ASKED for. Plus, please leave constructive criticism to people who are good at it. People who are super-negative or tactless may not be good at giving criticism because it may come across as mean-spirited. A good critic can identify what is good as well as what could be improved and should mention both (after all, telling an artist what they are doing RIGHT can be just as important as telling them where they could have done things differently!) and should also offer suggestions as well as opinions (i.e., "instead of shading white fur with black or grey hues, try shading with shades of blue or even purples and greens" as opposed to "the shading of the white fur looks bad." See the difference?).
But thanks to the deluge of people asking for crit when all they want is praise, the good critics are fewer and farther between.
You'd have to either be a close personal friend of mine or REALLY fucking beg for me to give crit these days. It's sad too, because (and I can freely admit this) I'm -good- at it. I'm able to type coherently (a must for good constructive criticism) and I have about 20+ years of art study (including some formal education and some private lessons in various mediums) on top of that. And I am sick and tired of people being assholes when they ASKED for crit.
Yeah, guess who feels unappreciated today? This guy. I truly feel like I wasted my time by typing some honest advice for a budding (and VERY unskilled) artist. I'm pretty well done trying to help others without being specifically asked. Why? Because I don't have time to spend considering a piece of art, typing up an honest and helpful critique, et cetera just to be blown off because it wasn't gushing praise for fundamental art no-nos. It's sad, and it sucks, but there it is.
If you are one of the people asking for crit and getting upset when someone actually gives you what you wanted, YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM. Stop that.
Do you know how that makes people who give good crit feel? Like they just burned up a wad of time, that will NEVER be theirs again, trying to help people who never wanted help to begin with.
Let me make a suggestion: if you want praise, FUCKING MAN UP AND FUCKING ASK FOR IT. I'm sure you've seen some of my image descriptions where I cheerily "fanboy" my own stuff. I am not going to ask for crit when secretly wanting praise or recognition, I have the mental acuity and emotional stability to be able to ask for positive attention.
Here's the thing, every time someone gets burned trying to give constructive criticism at an artist's request, THEY ARE THAT MUCH MORE LIKELY TO SAY "FUCK IT" AND STOP HELPING ARTISTS IN THE FUTURE. It doesn't hurt anyone to say "I'm really proud of how such-and-such in this image turned out" or "OMG I ROCKED THAT PART OF THIS IMAGE LOOK AT IT I'M AWESOME" or "I just want to draw attention to the part there that I like best." It DOES hurt people to ask for "constructive criticism" when what is really wanted is just praise, praise, and more praise. And you know who it hurts???
BUDDING ARTISTS WHO REALLY NEED AND -WANT- CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM. That's who it hurts. The people who've been burned over and over who STOP giving crit? They might have a way to help but they no longer feel wanted and appreciated for their assistance. They stop helping. And artists who once upon a time could have counted on their peers for improvement suggestions are left instead with masturbatory fan-servicing and praise-gushing.
So if you want praise, fucking ask for it! There's no law that says you can't ask for positive attention, damnit! But do NOT fuck with people who give constructive criticism earnestly and honestly, because you are screwing other artists out of their wisdom and experience.
Now, I am not saying people should wander around harshly critiquing artists here on FA. Constructive crit needs to be given when ASKED for. Plus, please leave constructive criticism to people who are good at it. People who are super-negative or tactless may not be good at giving criticism because it may come across as mean-spirited. A good critic can identify what is good as well as what could be improved and should mention both (after all, telling an artist what they are doing RIGHT can be just as important as telling them where they could have done things differently!) and should also offer suggestions as well as opinions (i.e., "instead of shading white fur with black or grey hues, try shading with shades of blue or even purples and greens" as opposed to "the shading of the white fur looks bad." See the difference?).
But thanks to the deluge of people asking for crit when all they want is praise, the good critics are fewer and farther between.
You'd have to either be a close personal friend of mine or REALLY fucking beg for me to give crit these days. It's sad too, because (and I can freely admit this) I'm -good- at it. I'm able to type coherently (a must for good constructive criticism) and I have about 20+ years of art study (including some formal education and some private lessons in various mediums) on top of that. And I am sick and tired of people being assholes when they ASKED for crit.
Yeah, guess who feels unappreciated today? This guy. I truly feel like I wasted my time by typing some honest advice for a budding (and VERY unskilled) artist. I'm pretty well done trying to help others without being specifically asked. Why? Because I don't have time to spend considering a piece of art, typing up an honest and helpful critique, et cetera just to be blown off because it wasn't gushing praise for fundamental art no-nos. It's sad, and it sucks, but there it is.
If you are one of the people asking for crit and getting upset when someone actually gives you what you wanted, YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM. Stop that.
But I totally agree. Im one to steer clear of handing out crits for the same reason (And because I dont think I know enough to crit haha)
Mind you I have no idea whether you do this. Just the fact that "Takes a lot of time to type out" implies the crit-dump, which can be overwhelming to people. The bite-sized "I like that, and I bet if you used colors for highlights instead of neutral gray, it would be even better" despite all the other things wrong with it makes it much less of a potential problem. One good and one bad, or two of each is much easier to take than 20 good s and ten bads, since people will often focus on the bad parts and are overwhelmed by where to start when there are too many things to address at once. Once their highlighting is great, you can go on to point out anatomy or line weight or other things, and it all becomes much more palatable and doesn't use a huge amount of your time critiquing. :)
Actually a short piece of crit can still take time to type out. I often have to check some color theory websites to make sure I'm giving clear and accurate advice when regarding light and shadow advice, for example. That takes time. Plus proofreading to make sure it isn't heavy-handed takes more time.
Compare/contrast the following:
ur light furs look liek u use gry or blacjk to color with u shud do sum blus or sumthn idk llolol.
with
Your light or white fur looks like you shaded it with black or grey; you might try using blues or purples instead to keep it from being too dark or looking flat. Some darker shadows using blues will make it pop more!
I can tell you the second one took a lot more time than the shitty stuff previously, heh! Typing well takes some time and concentration...and in my opinion is neccessary for constructive crit. :)
One day I opted to accept that critiquing invitation and offer some square, solid advice.
Next thing I knew, I was blocked and pretty much damn-near forgotten.
Since then, I've lost the tolerance to offer ideal constructive critique. Sometimes artists ask me directly to give them critique, which I do kindly and with no hesitation. As for just randomly giving advice to anyone who asks for it though? After my experience, it left a slightly traumatizing impression on the fundamentals of the artistic reciprocation process. :/
Its very tricky to actually give Constructive Criticism because, other then pointing out flaws and suggestions on how the image can be better and how you can improve as an artist, most of the time, it is people only voicing what they consider good and telling the artist how they can make "ME" happy. Its what -> I <- see whats wrong that -> I <- don't like.
So I dont think its good to shut out criticism, especially if you bloody ask for it, but that is one thing people have to deal with and sift through.
If you point out something bad you get attacked for attacking the artist.
If you point out something good you get ranted at about how that's the artist least favorite part of the pic.
If you say you like the pic, you are branded a suck up, or a sex fiend if they read your comment as sexual.
Of course then there's the complaints if you don't comment.
No one likes my art, it has tons of faves, there are less comments than usual.
And even if the artist asks and wants critique it wont keep their fans from attacking you for giving it.
That being said, friends of mine and I will privately share crit with each other from time to time.
Basically, trying to make an effort to figure out WHY I like something. So there'll be a comment with lines like "I especially like your inkwork" or "the way you've done your highlights is really eye-catching" or whatever. It may still only be like 1-2 sentences, but I figure it's more helpful than "Nice!"
I can absolutely understand someone who asks for critique and then after receiving it goes "whoa, that's a bit heavier than I was anticipating". As long as you're taking responsibility for your own reaction, and remembering to thank the person who took time out of their day to try to help you, there's nothing inherently wrong with realizing you weren't as prepared for that type of feedback as you thought you were. It could still be disappointing for the critiquer, and I'm not trying to downplay that, but it's the kind of thing that happens sometimes. Obviously if you're an ass about the feedback you just received you're not taking responsibility for your own reaction, and that's how you as a recipient of critique put yourself solidly in the wrong.
I'm sorry you've been burned; it sucks and I totally know the feeling of "I just spent an hour trying to help you and you're blowing up in my face? Why am I doing this again?" By offering critique when asked for it you did a nice thing, and if the artist wasn't ready for it, that's their loss (even though as you say, it also ends up being the loss of other budding artists who WOULD appreciate the help).
So, yeah. Cheers for trying, mate.
"Do you want me to be honest about what I see in this piece, or do you just want me to tell you what I like about it?"
Because those can be two very different things. I'm totally okay with just picking out the things I see as well done if that's all the person wants. I sat through four years of art school. I know how brutal crit, even helpful, well-meaning crit, can be to the artistic ego. I don't want to crush budding artists under a wall of crit they weren't prepared to digest.
Conversely, I've found there seem to be people just waiting to find problems with your work if you dare claim you did an awesome job and/or really like how something turned out. "HOW DARE YOU EXPRESS PRIDE IN YOUR WORK, YOU ARROGANT ARTIST! I MUST FIND SOMETHING I THINK IS WRONG AND HARANGUE YOU ABOUT IT!" I had to tell not one, but SEVERAL people recently that it's rude to leave unsolicited critique on someone else's finished, paid for commission. That's especially true in my case, because I work exclusively in traditional media. Critiquing my anatomy or color choices once a pic is done is basically useless to me, because I can't change it. I can't just delete a layer or use the undo tool. I'd have to redo everything from the sketch stage to make drastic changes. And if it's directed at something the commissioner specifically chose, like how the character is posed or colored, that's even more obnoxious, because not only is it my work that's being criticized, it's my paying customer's choices, which are nobody else's business. I had one commission actually ruined at the sketch stage years ago, because while the customer loved my sketch, they showed it to other people, and some third party completely ripped it to shreds, because it wasn't what they pictured. Which made my customer come back to me with that asshole's comments rather than their own honest feedback about how they wanted their piece to look. Destroyed any desire of mine to continue working on it, so I gave up before any money changed hands.
If I can't find something to compliment in a piece, I don't think I'm qualified to provide negatives about it either - simply because if I don't like it enough to say "hey, this is awesome and you did this particular aspect well (for your skill level), but you could do this bit a little better if you tried THIS" then I am likely to be falling into criticism that is less than helpful to the artist.
I think Zannah above has the right idea, honestly - does the artist want me to pick apart flaws, or do they just want to hear what they did well? I can provide valuable positive feedback (and indirectly suggest what I believe didn't work as well) by telling someone what works - even if I don't outright say what I feel didn't work.
On the other hand, as a beginner I asled a lot about cc, but everything I got was the bashing on e621.
My burns come from the " yerf" days. I got hit with the 'come back with an art degree' from every place I asked for a critique, but I did start taking it more seriously.
Most of the time people are fishing for praise, I think, when they say something negative about themselves like "Gah my art--how to improve?! What do you guys think??"
I can't give criticism tho' because I never really have anything interesting to point out as I am not an artist.
Anyway, yeah. Some people need thicker skin on the internets.
However, I'm off topic. :)