Ugh yikes, theyre really doing everything to quench this xP

problem is that their 'damage controll' will only go off site, since theyre doing so much to hide it here.

It's like instead of putting out the fire, they're just shooing it into the closet and pretending it's not burning the house down just because they can't see it anymore. Logical, eh?

Pretty much - clink -

Pretty much. Streisand effect is in full force by this point, all these attempts at hiding the problem is only bringing up questions.

It's sad how little we can actually do about it though. Not like speaking out seems to help either.

Same thing is happening on e6 as well. It's a shame that one side can be blatantly sided with purely because of status.

I think admins are having a slight change of heart as they removed journals from both sides. however, that could also be the other sides' doing. It's more logical to think it was the admins doing, though

I doubt the admins are having a change of heart, even if they did remove the journals from both sides this time, it doesn't excuse that (correct me if im wrong here) they removed his journal while leaving the other's still up, seems more like trying to save face than dig a hole deeper than the current one.

I think it's less "change of heart" and more "damage control".

this terminology makes more sense, yes!

Yeah, "damage control" the correct one for this situation.

I would believe it if I saw it, dear... You know how they get... But there are some good admins in the roster... but they're also usually REALLY busy with Real Life >_>; hehe...

Glad to see I was correct in thinking who you meant in your journal Trunchbull. Also good on you for doing your own raffle. You deserve a thousand pats on the back.

>Admins
>Logical

I want you to look at what you just typed

FA is the biggest furry-based site in the world.

There's Weasyl, but people here are afraid to leave because big artists already have an ecosystem going here.

Trust me, I'd love to be able to go to Weasyl permanently, but people are too afraid to leave.

Exactly, FA only holds the power that the people are giving it. If people are tired of the shit here, then move somewhere else. Even if it just involves posting previews of pictures here and full images on other, better sites to try "Show people the light"

Apologies. Have to remove the post. :/

The same reason people still use Fossil fuels...

This.
If this was happening on Inkbunny, the mods wouldn't care even if Valid said the name right in the fucking journal title.

That's the thing, though. FA has become the hive of the furry fandom. The epicenter. The main reactor to the fandom's Death Star. Artists are not going to leave this place because when furries think furry, they think of FA. Also, when you're rolling around in cash and watchers, you more or less have the royal blessings of the entire staff here. Why would artists want to leave? In turn, why would viewers want to leave when their favorite artist(s) won't leave?

And the artist(s) can't/won't leave because the customers won't leave - it's a vicious cycle!
(I can't get shit commission-wise off of FA. Really. That's the only reason I'm still here.)

STREISAND EFFECT AHOOOOY!!!!!!

I'm still happy to see all the support you're getting... Even if it isn't by the website itself. You have tons of love from the users that felt you were in the wrong with something you 100% deserved.

Thank you for the kind words. : >

https://media.giphy.com/media/2t9sD.....FpdK/giphy.gif

Apologies for removing the post but this went back to the old topic.

No need to apologize... I tend to over saturate information and I stepped my bounds. Even if a comment is removed, the administration can still read it too.

I do wish you a good future and hope this mess blows over soon... Some people aren't very good with social situations. (I am one of them, hehe) and misunderstandings can happen.

Thank you for the kind words and understanding <3 : >

You've brought up a very important point: censorship.

That's what this all boils down to. Hurt feelings on the internet is not a new concept or is it one that will be truly quashed. It's truly regrettable freedom of speech, a universal human right as declared upon the founding of the United Nations and even our 1st Amendment here in the United States where FA is hosted, is under attack because some people cannot handle criticism and insist on a more politically correct set of rules which happens to include censorship when someone's feelings are hurt.

As you can see the ones behind this move in the furry fandom are seeing some success. Already we're having to resort to wordplay for the risk of violating a "callout" rule and just like your previous journal you're here having to hide away comments just in the hopes of some admin won't come around and delete yet another journal. The problem is of course their definition of what constitutes a call out seems to be variable just as some people have decided that harassment is the mere negative comments of any person at any given time much like the way the right-wing in Israel scream out antisemitism if you not agree with all that they do.

HOORAH!

Could not have said this better myself!

Part of the reason behind the deletion of journals that are negative is to prevent lawsuits for defamation of figure and also to keep the overall negativity on the downlow because when FA first opened... Flame wars were quite common... I was part of one. It's hard to pick sides when no evidence is brought forth and fans of artist A will hate fans of artist B and shit happens and people get hateful and then idiots threaten to DDOS, so on and so forth... So it's a Prevention Mechanism...

And as an ex-GM/Admin/Whatever you wanna call it I understand the reason ToS agreements remove the 'Freedom of Speech'... Because you are not on American Soil, you are on the internet... A place where freedom has not been established. Even though Servers might be on American Soil, someone's computer could be in Chinese soil or German soil, or what not. Which means an agreement must be made, the Terms of Service... That's kinda why places like Australia, UK, and USA want to 'control' the internet to make a virtual 'soil'... But I digress...

In short, it's there to keep us from killing each other.

the TOS says FA is not responsible for the shit users post, and its servers are hosted in the US last time i recall so, the laws still apply here.

While yes the -Laws- apply, the Rights do not... It's... complicated and stupid honestly. Internet is a hazy place when things from it are taken to court. The ToS says that now? it used to be otherwise... Hm... Might need to reread for my loopholes *snirk*

then why does FA forbit art related lottery if its not regarding through law? Thats what I has been told once

Because it was, paraphrasing this quote "Disgusting to see people whoring their pages out for free watchers by running raffles, even worse when people didn't come through with the raffle winners" if I recall that was close to the reason... The 'reasoning' behind bans are shady. Example, cub art was 'banned' because of 'legal issues with the site provider'... That's false, it was because there were 'cub furs' who were offering each other RL human pictures of the illegal variety using notes, and it kinda disgusted the administration and they went to drastic measures... (But who knows, maybe that is a lie as well, I have no CLUE what is going on in the admins' heads these days... I used to be able to predict dragoneer, now that's even becoming a hassle... Maybe old age is getting to me)

No I didnt mean that raffle thing.
I once tried to made a lotterie like, buy a ticket for 2 dollars (or more tickets) and I will draw a winner who will get a 2 char shaded pic.
But I was told by a mod to not do this because of legal reasons.

Tried to say with this that it seems to me that the administration simply is using (or NOT using) reasons as they like to treat different users differently

They have a fallback in their 'training' (... if you can call it that...) that if something is questioned to state 'legal reasons'.

But that kind of lottery is actually against the law. It's obscure and RARELY enforced, but you cannot do something like that without a gambling permit in most locations, including online (has been enforced). So that might actually be true. I thought you meant the 'Post a journal linking to my page and be a watcher to qualify' ban out there.

Websites can become liable for gambling in the US, and FA's owning corps are US based, and the servers hosted in the US.

As much as some people want to go "Oh its just because they dont like it", there's legal stuff. Can't really hold buy-in entry raffles at conventions, and ran into a few issues back in college with club activities.

It's not defamation if people are stating factual recounts of events though.

I wish that were true... Courts have ruled in favor of defamation cases where just facts are given before... (Freedom of press is being pushed to its limits) But it's not common place, rather rare that such things can happen.

I do agree that factual events should be allowed to be shown, even if they put a person in negative light... (Then again I'm one of those who thinks number of 'hidden comments' should be placed on site stats page for a user...)

Well US soil is not the sole entity that provides it considering it's actually an internationally recognized human right. In fact freedom of speech does exist quite obviously on the internet and is protected by not just US law but also international law. Granted there are nations that do what they can to suppress it (let's be honest, the UDHR is violated quite often) but it doesn't change the fact the right exists. From a legal standpoint, no it doesn't exist on this website because places like this are deemed private property. Hell if administration wanted to they could enact a racist policy if they so desired and do what they can to ban people of a certain race and not a damn thing can be done about it legally. Of course it would be bad from a public relations standpoint.

But no, the reason why this site can exist is due to freedom of speech law. However access is governed by the respective laws of the land which is why nations like Turkey and China work to censor what their own people can access and the UK tries to determine what form of artwork is legal to view. That being said while I do understand it's a preventative measure all it's done is encourage people to create these hugboxes and any form of criticism is seen as harassment which is just flat out a load of bull most especially when someone is in the public eye and has no problem flaunting it off.

On that note there is a point where admins stepping in is a good idea. But that does not come into play until someone starts issuing death threats or posts a journal encouraging others to go and attack the named person directly but not because the person's attitude and skill is being talked about. At the end of the day people that go out of their way to cry to an admin because someone is saying mean things are the sort of people that really need to man the hell up and learn to pay no mind. Makes little sense to make use of the block button..then go out of your way to engage the crowd that does not care for you on the same page of the person you've blocked. Only pots that should be stirred are the ones containing dinner.

Seems so. But I eagerly await the day this site burns to the ground due to shitty management from some kind of event.

Apologies. But i have to remove this post. :/

It's extremely sad what you have to go through to keep this journal up.

I'm not blaming you at all, but seriously, It's a shame you have to step on eggshells at the moment.

Also, not sure if this could be posted or not, so feel free to delete it.

Not at all. That is actually a perfect response to what's going on. I have to tippytoe around everything i post now(or that's what it feels like)
As long as the conversation is about censoring and being mistreated in getting your voice heard it's alright. Nothing about my previous posts or people not in this chatt.

Nah it's cool. I understand. :0

Apologies. Got to remove this. Hope you understand.

I wonder how it will be for you Val when you need to sleep, will it still be your fault people write stuff in your journal? or will the admins go on call?

they'll snipe as soon as they take a break or someone's going to rear their ugly head in here and start again

Sleep? :D

I actually missed out on my day job and my evening job as a streamer dealing with this as i can't relax with something like this over my shoulder.
And as it as been pointed out to me i need to make this my full day job to monitor my journal to make sure nothing is bad is posted in them.

don't. i lost like 3 days of work over drama relating to this, of course my time being wasted means nothing but it could mean everything to you. Don't let furry take over your life.

I know this feeling... I agree, listen to the Trunchy Bull, she is a wise and omnipotent sorceress! (Or just a really good artist and good person at the same time! Which is sorcery in this day and age to be both!)

"This whole situation seems really frustrating, I find it hard to believe that the last journal violates "callouts" "
-  MegaPoly

Apologies but i had to remove a part of your post.

Fortunately i have a less than serious job as of now (currently tryin to evaluate how much my back can deal with aswell as the fact its unpaid.) and my boss is rather understanding.
So meanwhile it seems like its a 'lost day of work' its more of a proper reason as i slept porly due to this wich means that its best not to strain it.
o7 Thank yo ufor your concern and i hope you didn't miss out on too much work.



As per don't let furry take over my life? It's far too late for that. I love fur art & anthros in general. I identify with my sona' and it's a big part of my life.
Furcons for example is the thing i look forward to the most over the course of the year: By far!
Gotta love furries.

Yes, it's gone.

I'll PM you about your question but i'm afraid i have to remove this as it mentions things other than the main topic.
Apologies.

No prob man. Totally understand. LEast you got the message. Sorry you're going through this.

wow, you do better user control over comments than the actual administration.

This made me laugh.

...

Then made me sad.

Let's be honest, that's not exactly a huge achievement when the baseline for that is practically none.

*hugs* sorry all this shit happen to you.

Thank you for the kind words. ^__^

*hugs*

I hope if anyone wins the Trunchbull raffle they give it to you as a gift, you deserve it!

Actually- Trunchbull was superduper kind and crazy generous and offered something truly special. I'll write more about it in my thank you journal. : )

congrats!~

Trunchbull is the real MVP here. Sorry for using memes, but it's true.

I'm sorry your journals keep getting removed...
In fact, I honestly got so fed up with this whole dramafest I contacted a head and asked them directly why they were attacking the little people and ignoring the bigger ones.

I was given the whole "Just because you do not see action being taken does not mean we haven't issued warnings or taken against a single or multiple parties."
To which I countered how they left the journals up on the bigger fish which could do more damage with the vast amount of views, that they were continuing to do it while the other accounts involved were varied/not the same, so that line held no ground... That censoring the small voice while allowing the bigger one to continue showed favoritism...
Couple hours later...
Journals were removed.

I don't think I did anything to convince them...
But I am betting that others were messaging them as well and pointing out what I had.

If anything, through this entire thing you have been civil and professional.
You never outed them, you kept polite/civil, and were simply venting an event that happened to you, a right anyone should have, but seemed you were silenced because the event was with someone so... "known" for lack of a better word.

If I hadn't seen on the past journal Trunch offering you your own special animation, if I won I would of given you the animation (as I am seeing others comment they would too).

Thank you for showing civility and grace during all of this.

(I hope that this isn't too bad, but if it is, please feel free to hide it. :3)

Oh wow- So many kind words and compliments i don't even know where to start other than a thank you. ^_^

This whole thing is not how i wanted to spend my last few days but its something worth fighting for. (and especially with the continued support and words from everyone.)

And yes. Trunchbull aswell as others have truly gone out of their way and made something absolutely amazing- Turning a very bad experience and putting a very positive spin on it!
There will be a proper thank you journal for them later on. <3

I come back a day later and you're handling this situation with more tact than, well... Anyone else in this whole debacle. :P

Props to you for hiding comments and keeping the discussion strictly about your experience with the whole event instead of deflecting/perpetuating drama. I can only hope that the support you received is enough to outweigh the awfulness of what happened - it's almost like I'm getting this feeling that do-gooders in the fandom have to work overtime to pick up the slack, trying twice as hard to be charitable.

You're all blessed, wonderful people. Thank you for sticking up for each other and staying strong.

Thisthisthis^ <3

It's better for people to see the truth of the situation than to hide it under a carpet.

If anything, it's made it tons better for him. He's getting gift art from several people, furs are rallying behind him, and people are realizing what's going on.

ohh ok, and yeha i guess but its just cuz ive had friends on her go through this what other artists and it made it worse for them :/ thats all i was meaning to say

Ignoring problems doesn't make them go away.

Im not saying ignore it but putting it up online isnt really the best thing to do :/, notes would be better to tell certain people not everybody its just gonna make the situation worse.

How are notes solving the issue?
The one that they are venting about blocked them... they cannot note them...

And its a topic the community is facing, where you cannot vent/post about a bad experience without naming, and they didn't, but same token monitor everyone else so they don't reveal...

This is them venting and trying to see are the justified or not, if not why and if so, hopefully get some information with how to handle it or go forward with it all.
As well as bring up awareness.
How would notes to a closed set of people bring that awareness?

no i mean like notes to certain friends. But if FA wont do something to the raffle holder then their in the wrong.

I won't go into detail in respect for Validuzs' wishes, but lets just say your suggestion was the first route taken.

oh then nevermind sorry :/

As mentioned by others: The ability to discuss it via notes was removed. I simply made a journal asking if i had read something wrong and things went out of control at first (not by my doing.)
And the journal was removed.
The second one was kept in check.

This journal is about not being censored first and foremost.


"It is better but still posting it instead of telling certain people i"
- SarahRawr18
Who? The first thing i did after i was not able to send notes was to make a ticket to the administration.
I've been in contact with three Directors.

Ohhh ok, I didnt know im sorry i wasnt sure thats all v.v

sorry for the trouble but imma just remove my comments :/

Keep them! :)
No need to remove them as it was a proper question and you voiced your concern. : >

Wow, the blatant favoritism FA is showing popular artists is astounding. I'm sorry first you were mistreated and then FA was like "person quarrels are bad but popular people making journals, calling people out for bidding, and commenting after blocking are okay because they're popular and don't have to follow the same rules."

Feel free to hide this, but it always continues to disappoint at how extremely blatant the admins show time ans time again that they don't give a fuck abut their userbase and only care about them as numbers and don't do any proper moderating. It's always covering up for popular people because they bring it site traffic. Who cares about the average user? I see it constantly and it's just so disappointing. I wish there were better options than FA because it's just insulting how poor their excuses were.

""While you may not have written the harassing comments you are still in charge and in control of your journals..." - Director #2"

I have a problem with that mindset. That puts the burden of enforcing the ToS on us as well. This wouldn't be AS bad if the popular artists on here were not getting preferential treatment all the time but still. The administration team can learn alot on how to manage a site by referencing how other successful sites are ran. The only real problems I ever come across with this nonsense from the administration team is on this site and some forums that insist on political correctness. Not even Facebook is this petty.

Woop!!
This is adorable!! ^_^;

Thank you for the gift & the kind words!! : >

Props to you for handling this like you are. It's one thing to get support, it's another to earn it by continuing to handle it with as much tact as possible.

As a curiosity, did you receive and 'strikes' against your account with the removal of the journals, or just the notice to police the comment section?

Did they say how long you have to remove a violating comment from when it is made in order to avoid a journal removal?

I will say this one thing. In an ironic way, this has given you more notoriety than you probably had before hand. LEARN From this lesson and don't let it go to YOUR head either. Not that you seem to be doing so, but let this cautionary tell be a lesson to you and frankly any and every other artist that comes across this.

Yes, yes this

I'm definetly not a known person here on FA and i got more traffic on my website over the last day than since i made the account. Wish it was for a better reason tho. ^^
And i'll never let noteriety get to my head. One of the best things that my history teacher told me was the story of Julius Caesar riding through town being extremely cocky (because hey; he litterally owned the place.) and one of the slaves(or was it the soldiers?) Plainly reminded him "Remember that you are mortal."

No one no matter how powerfull or no matter in what possition you are - You can't be a dick. (Well: That wasn't what my teacher tried to say but its what i got. ;) )

I'm glad this site's moderation quality hasn't changed since in the last 4 years or so since I've visited it.
Good old admins dutifully exercising their banhammer/bawwwlete abilities left and right just to keep the biggest of babies happy. This kettle of shit is truly coming to a boil, Moonman cannot wait for it to reach the critical point where it overflows all over the kitchen and everyone who deserves to have shit stick to their fur gets soaked. Godspeed to all the denizens of FurAffinity.

Never change.

Never change.

when you dropping a cd. I heard you spit mad lyrics.

I'm sorry for being late to the party but what exactly happened. Could it be pm'd?

Noting you if that's alright.

Honestly this whole thing is ridiculous - and the hypocrisy of the admins never ceases to amaze.

well, that was a wild trip through the rabbit hole to figure out what the heck happened

Im way on your side with this one, im so sorry you had to deal with that bull, i hope the support continues

Wow, I'd been keeping an eye on this and the other issues that happened no more than a month before, and I'm saddened it's become THIS much of an issue.

It's a bit impressive that this whole thing could become THIS awkward, and over what? Near as I've been able to tell, this was a non-issue that got turned into an issue over...nothing? Sure seemed that way.

I'm glad to see you getting the support you are out of all of this, and I really hope that this does have some effect on the others involved. It isn't right the way you were treated, on several different levels here.

So far the value of what you have received exceds what you originally were gonna have, so if before you think you won the lotto, here you got a royal flush at the worlds finals.

The generous gifts from various artists is just icing on the soulcake. ^_^;
I think the most valuable thing i got was the combined support of the community and realization that there is a true and proper pack mentality in the community. <3

That whole thing was pretty crazy,good job keeping it cool all the time.

Cheers! I find it easier to be very strict and firm with straight forward guidelines. Even more so dealing with all the rules. Normally i'm alot more of a whacky guy and i speak my mind. (haha- Check my stream and you'll see. x3) But when there's a problem at hand; On comes the white gloves & lets be formal about it to try and solve it.

You don't know me one bit, but I just wanna say you have my full blown support. And it seems everyone elses, even 8chan is showering ya with love. You deserve the gifts and everything. :D
You really don't deserve all this BS however, you seem like a really nice guy. And hell, you're taking all this mess much better than I expected to go down.
Keep your chin up man. ^w^

Thank you for your kind words and support! ^_^
I've seen the 8chan stuff and it's rather amusing! (Even the very very rare negative posts in my direction actually.) I never expected this to go as far as random people taking the time out of their busy lives to make something for me out of the goodness of their hearts with no obligation at all to do so! Its amazing how many people that are willing to put a positive spin on a negative event! : >

I've not seen the 8vchan stuff, though to be fair I don't go on there. good to hear about it though.

You have my sympathies...I'd say more...but I can't really now can I?

Thanks. And sadly not.. :/

Bloody hell you're getting more hammered than a thick piece of meat in a butcher's.

Hm?