FA+
Shop
Rob Bell on Homosexuality in the Bible
10 years ago
General
I have decided to love. If you are seeking the highest good, I think you can find it through love. And the beautiful thing is that we are moving against wrong when we do it, because John was right, God is love. He who hates does not know God, but he who has love has the key that unlocks the door to the meaning of ultimate reality.
~Martin Luther King Jr.One word frees us of all the weight and pain in life. That word is Love.
~SophoclesJOURNAL BEGINS HERE Hey everyone,
Not a long or new post, but I enjoyed it.
Source: http://robbellcom.tumblr.com/post/1.....-bible-part-75
[username] said:
You seem to support homosexuality on the basis that God is for love and fidelity. But what do you do with all the places in the Bible that seem to clearly denounce it? I want to be okay with it, but can’t find the support for it. Help?
All right then, [username], a bit of help…
First, some people are gay. They’re our friends and family and neighbors and coworkers and that’s who they are. I realize that this is a really, really obvious fact, but let’s start there. They’re not gay because they are deviant or destructive or trying to spread harm, they are who they are and it’s vitally important that we embrace and affirm them as they are.
When someone is told that who or how they are is wrong or deviant, it creates massive dissonance in the depth of their being. Especially if they are told that God is opposed to who they are. This is why suicide rates among gay teens are so tragically high. Sexuality is one of the most mysterious dimensions of our humanity, and to tell a young man or woman in their most formative years that there is something deeply wrong with them at the core of their being and if they are true to who they are they will bring the wrath and condemnation of the creator of universe upon them is a crushing weight no one should have to carry.
Second, it is normal and natural and healthy to want to spend your life with someone. In the Genesis story that begins the Bible, the storyteller wants us to see that something is wrong in the Garden of Eden. Long before anyone ate any fruit, things aren’t right. What is it that’s wrong? The man is alone.
Loneliness is one of the oldest aches in the bones of humanity. We want someone to share the journey with, someone to witness to our life, someone who will be there for us. We should not deny anyone the joy of sharing their life with a partner simply because they want to be with someone of the same gender. It is extremely important that we acknowledge gay marriage as a reflection of the natural, normal, healthy human desire to spend your life with someone. The world needs more-not less-fidelity, sacrifice, love and monogamy.
Third, let’s talk about the Bible. Before we get to the actual verses in the Bible that refer to same gender sex, it’s important that ask the question
Are the writers of the Bible talking about what we’re talking about?
Because in the ancient world they did not have the categories we do. There simply aren’t Hebrew or Greek or Latin words that correspond to our words. There were pagan temples with male prostitutes. There were gangs of men who wanted to rape male visitors to their village. There was every variation of promiscuity we can imagine. There were men who had coercive, nonconsensual sex with young boys. When the writers of the Bible refer to same gender sex, these are the practices they’re referring to-They aren’t talking about two people who are deeply committed to each other, being faithful to each other in a loving and monogamous relationship.
Next, the numbers. There are roughly 31,102 verses in the Bible. There are five or six or seven, depending on who you talk to, that refer to homosexuality.
Five. Or six. Or seven.
Out of 31,000.
Now, the verses. Lots and lots of work has been done interpreting and discussing the few verses in the Bible that do appear to address this topic. One of the best is Dale Martin’s book Sex and the Single Savior. A massive number of people have done great work here understanding the scriptures on this topic, a few of the best…
Here’s a great one from the fine folks at NALT
http://notalllikethat.org/taking-go.....homosexuality/
Here’s another
http://ecinc.org/clobber-passages/
And here’s another
http://epistle.us/hbarticles/clobber1.html
And here’s another
http://www.stjohnsmcc.org/new/Bible.....se/Malakos.php
All of which leads me to a story. A man called me last week. He’s a pastor. He oversees several areas of the church he works in. In his role, he interacts with a number of volunteers. Two of his best volunteers are gay. The leaders of the church recently came to this man and told him it was his job to tell these two volunteers that they couldn’t serve in the church anymore because they’re gay. He shared this with them, they were devastated, and they left the church.
Let’s be very clear here: These people were told they can’t serve in a church-a church that gathers to honor and follow the Jesus who never said a thing about same sex relationships-because of how the leaders of this church have chosen to interpret 5 of the 31,000 verses in the Bible. This is wrong, sad, heartbreaking, and destructive.
And it will not survive. These attitudes, as robust as they appear from time to time, simply cannot withstand the inevitable forward momentum of spirit rolling across the ages, call us all to greater connection, love, compassion, and understanding.
Women didn’t use to be able to vote, but now they do. There’s used to be two drinking fountains for people with two different colors of skin, but now there’s only one. While this issue continues to be controversial for many, the truth is, it’s just a matter of time until everybody looks back and says Remember when that used to be an issue?
Not a long or new post, but I enjoyed it.
Source: http://robbellcom.tumblr.com/post/1.....-bible-part-75
[username] said:
You seem to support homosexuality on the basis that God is for love and fidelity. But what do you do with all the places in the Bible that seem to clearly denounce it? I want to be okay with it, but can’t find the support for it. Help?
All right then, [username], a bit of help…
First, some people are gay. They’re our friends and family and neighbors and coworkers and that’s who they are. I realize that this is a really, really obvious fact, but let’s start there. They’re not gay because they are deviant or destructive or trying to spread harm, they are who they are and it’s vitally important that we embrace and affirm them as they are.
When someone is told that who or how they are is wrong or deviant, it creates massive dissonance in the depth of their being. Especially if they are told that God is opposed to who they are. This is why suicide rates among gay teens are so tragically high. Sexuality is one of the most mysterious dimensions of our humanity, and to tell a young man or woman in their most formative years that there is something deeply wrong with them at the core of their being and if they are true to who they are they will bring the wrath and condemnation of the creator of universe upon them is a crushing weight no one should have to carry.
Second, it is normal and natural and healthy to want to spend your life with someone. In the Genesis story that begins the Bible, the storyteller wants us to see that something is wrong in the Garden of Eden. Long before anyone ate any fruit, things aren’t right. What is it that’s wrong? The man is alone.
Loneliness is one of the oldest aches in the bones of humanity. We want someone to share the journey with, someone to witness to our life, someone who will be there for us. We should not deny anyone the joy of sharing their life with a partner simply because they want to be with someone of the same gender. It is extremely important that we acknowledge gay marriage as a reflection of the natural, normal, healthy human desire to spend your life with someone. The world needs more-not less-fidelity, sacrifice, love and monogamy.
Third, let’s talk about the Bible. Before we get to the actual verses in the Bible that refer to same gender sex, it’s important that ask the question
Are the writers of the Bible talking about what we’re talking about?
Because in the ancient world they did not have the categories we do. There simply aren’t Hebrew or Greek or Latin words that correspond to our words. There were pagan temples with male prostitutes. There were gangs of men who wanted to rape male visitors to their village. There was every variation of promiscuity we can imagine. There were men who had coercive, nonconsensual sex with young boys. When the writers of the Bible refer to same gender sex, these are the practices they’re referring to-They aren’t talking about two people who are deeply committed to each other, being faithful to each other in a loving and monogamous relationship.
Next, the numbers. There are roughly 31,102 verses in the Bible. There are five or six or seven, depending on who you talk to, that refer to homosexuality.
Five. Or six. Or seven.
Out of 31,000.
Now, the verses. Lots and lots of work has been done interpreting and discussing the few verses in the Bible that do appear to address this topic. One of the best is Dale Martin’s book Sex and the Single Savior. A massive number of people have done great work here understanding the scriptures on this topic, a few of the best…
Here’s a great one from the fine folks at NALT
http://notalllikethat.org/taking-go.....homosexuality/
Here’s another
http://ecinc.org/clobber-passages/
And here’s another
http://epistle.us/hbarticles/clobber1.html
And here’s another
http://www.stjohnsmcc.org/new/Bible.....se/Malakos.php
All of which leads me to a story. A man called me last week. He’s a pastor. He oversees several areas of the church he works in. In his role, he interacts with a number of volunteers. Two of his best volunteers are gay. The leaders of the church recently came to this man and told him it was his job to tell these two volunteers that they couldn’t serve in the church anymore because they’re gay. He shared this with them, they were devastated, and they left the church.
Let’s be very clear here: These people were told they can’t serve in a church-a church that gathers to honor and follow the Jesus who never said a thing about same sex relationships-because of how the leaders of this church have chosen to interpret 5 of the 31,000 verses in the Bible. This is wrong, sad, heartbreaking, and destructive.
And it will not survive. These attitudes, as robust as they appear from time to time, simply cannot withstand the inevitable forward momentum of spirit rolling across the ages, call us all to greater connection, love, compassion, and understanding.
Women didn’t use to be able to vote, but now they do. There’s used to be two drinking fountains for people with two different colors of skin, but now there’s only one. While this issue continues to be controversial for many, the truth is, it’s just a matter of time until everybody looks back and says Remember when that used to be an issue?
You say there are no Hebrew, Greek or Latin words for homosexuals & where the acts are discussed the writers are talking about rapists & prostitutes. If that is true then explain the following verses:
1 Timothy 1:9-10 (KJV): Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
Leviticus 18:22 (KJV): Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Leviticus 20:13 (KJV): If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Romans 1:26-27 (KJV): For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (KJV): Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.