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Mary Sue????
9 years ago
Hey gang. Today I wanna get something off my chest, something that's been bugging for a long-ass while now. Because people who like to think they're smart because they use such big words without actually knowing what the hell they talk about or think they know all about what makes a good story and characters. Now granted, I don't know everything about writing, I don't think I'm Shakespeare (though I'm not a fan of the guy), I know what makes a movie cool for me is the characters.
Now this crap has gone on ever since Star Wars: The Force Awakens came out, loads of people keep calling Rey a 'Mary Sue' just cuz she's good at what she does, and cuz of that she's an unrealistic character.
Really!?! You're throwing this crap when you got people who can handle laser swords, robots that can think and act like regular people, aliens, and an energy field that surrounds living beings. You're calling this unrealistic?!
Now a Mary Sue means: She's perfect. Everybody loves her. She's great at everything, blah blah blah. This is used for any strong female character that they think has no crippling flaw
First off: the "Everybody loves her" bit. I'm sorry, but isn't that the goddamn point of a protagonist. If I said it once, I've said it more than once, if we don't have a likeable male/female protagonist to root for, THEN IS EVEN THE HELL THE POINT OF WATCHING A MOVIE THEN?!
Yeah, Rey is good at what she does, but I saw why. "She learned the ligthsaber so quickly." See that staff of hers?! I see that she's good with melee weapons. "She learned the force so quickly" She picked it up when Kylo Ren was doing what he was doing to her. I saw that! "She overpowered Kylo Ren so easily" He was injured, and he was ordered to bring her back a-friggin'-live! He was basically toying with her, and he goaded her on saying he can teach her ways of the force.
Black Widow's a skilled assassin, that make her a Mary Sue?
The thing about Bella Swan from Twilight, she's consider 'The Queen of Mary Sues', I don't think that. She was just an unlikable character.
"IT'S ALL A FEMINIST PROPAGANDA!" That is all I'm hearing now, and boy howdy it's gotten so goddamn ridiculous that these insecure, whinny fanboys are really making things impossible for future fans to be able to WANT to enjoy things now or in the future.
I have this big feeling Rey is a Skywalker. The proof's in the pudding, guys. The Force Awakens has proven to me that it's worthy to be as good as the Original Trilogy. I love all the characters in Force Awakens, I can't wait to see them again in the next film. If you hate the movie for different reasons, fine to each his/her own. But if you STILL think Rey is a Mary Sue, and the Prequels are works of art, then that's YOUR ass.
Thanks for your time.
Now this crap has gone on ever since Star Wars: The Force Awakens came out, loads of people keep calling Rey a 'Mary Sue' just cuz she's good at what she does, and cuz of that she's an unrealistic character.
Really!?! You're throwing this crap when you got people who can handle laser swords, robots that can think and act like regular people, aliens, and an energy field that surrounds living beings. You're calling this unrealistic?!
Now a Mary Sue means: She's perfect. Everybody loves her. She's great at everything, blah blah blah. This is used for any strong female character that they think has no crippling flaw
First off: the "Everybody loves her" bit. I'm sorry, but isn't that the goddamn point of a protagonist. If I said it once, I've said it more than once, if we don't have a likeable male/female protagonist to root for, THEN IS EVEN THE HELL THE POINT OF WATCHING A MOVIE THEN?!
Yeah, Rey is good at what she does, but I saw why. "She learned the ligthsaber so quickly." See that staff of hers?! I see that she's good with melee weapons. "She learned the force so quickly" She picked it up when Kylo Ren was doing what he was doing to her. I saw that! "She overpowered Kylo Ren so easily" He was injured, and he was ordered to bring her back a-friggin'-live! He was basically toying with her, and he goaded her on saying he can teach her ways of the force.
Black Widow's a skilled assassin, that make her a Mary Sue?
The thing about Bella Swan from Twilight, she's consider 'The Queen of Mary Sues', I don't think that. She was just an unlikable character.
"IT'S ALL A FEMINIST PROPAGANDA!" That is all I'm hearing now, and boy howdy it's gotten so goddamn ridiculous that these insecure, whinny fanboys are really making things impossible for future fans to be able to WANT to enjoy things now or in the future.
I have this big feeling Rey is a Skywalker. The proof's in the pudding, guys. The Force Awakens has proven to me that it's worthy to be as good as the Original Trilogy. I love all the characters in Force Awakens, I can't wait to see them again in the next film. If you hate the movie for different reasons, fine to each his/her own. But if you STILL think Rey is a Mary Sue, and the Prequels are works of art, then that's YOUR ass.
Thanks for your time.
Like I said, most of the people I run into that call this movie bad are lovers of the prequels, or prefer watching the prequels over the originals.
I think she is a Kinobi.
Only gripe I have about rey is she did seem to progress with her ability with the force a little too fast. The mind trick thing is what really bothers me as funny a scene as it was. That being said I can overlook it becouse its an amazing movie, and I wanna see where it goes.
She picks up on things quick. Growing up in that kind of environment, you gotta adapt quick. So I don't see any gripe with it.
What I dont understand is people suddenly thinking the prequils are now somehow genious works of art after the new movie came out.... it just baffles me. I know a few people who HATED the prequils with a passion, but now after seeing a new hope they nonstop praise them.... I just dont get it.....
Hell, last night I saw the Green Lantern movie for the first time in 5 years ever since seeing it ONCE in theaters... lemme tell ya something, it's miles ahead better than MOS and BVS. It's nowhere near as bad as everybody makes it out to be. And it's nowhere near as bad as Haley Berry Catwoman
And nobody like haley berry catwoman. Lol
You don't care for her, fine, it's no skin off my nose. But no, it's not weakly implemented as Luke was with his shtick.
Who the hell is Darth Cadius?
Each film felt different, yet the same. Something like this SHOULDN'T determine whether you will like something else down the line. That's why we keep getting morons that praise crap like Man of Steel and Batman vs. Superman saying all films of the MCU are strictly for kids
Darth Cadius is Han Solo's son from the book series who started off an innocent kid who cared about animals, then turned to the dark side due to war and subtle nudgings from the Sith.
And here are some more points: She struggled with using the lightsaber in the first half of the fight, then reached Luke's level at TESB mere seconds later, the bit with the force was also too quickly learned; Jedis like Kenobi, Yoda, even Ezra have taken months, years, DECADES even, to master that level of skill perfectly, yet she learned it quickly enough just to aid in her escape.
Finn's skill with the lightsaber was just as fast, but that's because he's a clone, the Empire learns from their battles, and so did the First Order. Not to mention that not every single creature in the galaxy can operate a weapon as elegant as a lightsaber without first practicing with it.
FINN IS NOT A CLONE!
Rey spent her life picking apart ships, I can buy that she would've learned a thing or two about certain parts.
We see Rey trying and failing twice with that clone trooper, and I've considered that maybe she was trained before. The proof's in the pudding, man.
He's an Imperial mass produced soldier who went against orders BECAUSE the clones were dying out. Course, the Empire did recruit non clones into their armies. He has a serial number, just because he isn't a GR Clone doesn't mean he isn't an IC clone.
She doesn't what the part even looked like. Remember, just like in real life, just because you have two engines from the same car type doesn't mean it'll work for the same car. My dad learned that the hard way twice and now we have three mid-sized engines.
Okay, with that one you have me. It's just too quick on how it worked after three tries, and we've never seen SKILLED force users in their training days fail at it.
We'll just have to wait and see if all this Rey hate can be justified by the clever jackasses at CinemaSins when they sin this film... Also, when the Hyperdrive first broke in TESB, was it repaired in the cock-pit or somewhere else? Can't shake the feeling that I swear Han had to run out of the cockpit to fix the Hyperdrive... God it's been a while since I saw the Originals...
And those assholes CinemaSins have NO life, like TMZ
Not to mention her mentioning that it was installed in the first place implies she has some prior knowledge on the part.
Anything that is massed produced, whether similar in form or not, is a clone.
The fact that every tiny piece of info must be spoonfed to people just to know why really tells me about people
On the other hand w/e, the Falcon is famous so there you go.
Yes, Rey's actions in the story, upon further reflection, come loaded with "hey, that might be one astronomical coincidence too many." Yes, everything spoken by, to or about this character comes with a footnote reading "THIS WILL MEAN SOMETHING IN EPISODE VIII." But Daisy Ridley KILLED in that role, and was absolutely phenomenal as a tough-as-nails survivor who might just have a greater role to play in the struggle between the Galactic Resistance and The First Order.
well you have a good point to think wolf and I respect it.
Thanks for understanding.
Warning: It's a very lengthy speech.
If I remember correctly, the whole "May-Sue characters are friends with everyone" goes so far as everyone falling in love with them at first and their enemies liking them. A good character is not friends with everyone and that's usually how it is. Sure, most of the good guys will like them because they're a good guy as well, but that doesn't mean that every good guy will immediately like them. If you want a Mary-Sue character, go read My Immortal. Note: It is best to hear someone else read it rather than reading it yourself, you'll lose less braincells that way, my recommendation for that is SomeOrdinaryGamers' reading of it because they do not take it seriously.
Going to Rey. Rey has had a lot of years experience with piloting a craft, she also has a noticeable innate connection with the force. Her overpowering Kylo Ren is possible, given how she is. All she was doing was putting all of her willpower against Kylo Ren's and, from my perspective, accidentally broke through. Her using Jedi mind tricks? She might have just been trying it and hoping that it would work. I mean she has mentioned before how Jedi are legendary people that could use mind tricks, and she was possibly just metaphorically throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what stuck in that scene. Her being able to use the force powers she used honestly could have been done by accident, as long as she had some idea as to what she was meaning to do, and she had an idea of how mind tricks worked.
Her being able to use a lightsaber so quickly? Lightsabers are exactly like a normal sword, except that it will cut through your body if you aren't careful. It's been proven that Finn is able to use a Lightsaber very well with no prior Lightsaber training. Anyone can use a Lightsaber, but Jedis are generally the only ones that are seen using it because they have mastered it (and their force-enhanced reflexes). It's like wielding a sword that could kill you if you made the wrong movement. Anyone could use it (I mean literally anyone, even Jar-Jar), but would a normal person want to use it knowing that they could probably lose limbs? Hell no.
TL;DR Most things Rey did made sense when you take a step back and look at how they explain it and I think she didn't actually know most of the force stuff she did but still rolled with it.
Final note: As mentioned before with the Millenium Falcon fixing stuff. You can learn a lot of things by taking them apart, and a vast majority of the lesser parts are universal. Some of the stuff Rey might have done with the Falcon might have been improvised from what she's had to deal when she scrapped previous ships for parts.
I mean if you look at how they explain half the things, they kinda put her as not entirely knowing what she's doing. She sort of does some things hoping it would work (eg. mind trick scene) and rolling with it if it does work. I don't even think she knew what she was saying when she overpowered Kylo Ren in that whole battle of the wills.
It's the miraculous coincidence of ALL THESE TALENTS AT ONCE WITHOUT EXPLANATION that makes her verge on being one. But I'm willing to blame that on the movie being so very rushed instead -- it didn't explain the origin of Rey's talents, but it didn't explain a lot of anything else either.
My main issue with Rey is two-fold: she up and learns two very, very difficult Jedi skills instantaneously and she essentially doesn't need the other characters to be there; this could be the Rey Show and everything would still get accomplished. Comparatively, Luke gets the shit kicked out of him for most of IV and V, and absolutely needs help, tutelage or otherwise contributions from the other characters.
All of that being said I don't think she's a bad character; I just think she was written clumsily, like the entire movie was. It was a B to B- movie overall, and Rey is just part of that; it's not her fault.
Are there are good reasons to identify with her
The clues are all over the movie for her knowing so much and so many things. She has spent long enough living on her own to learn how to do so many things. I think is fairly obvious she'll know some basic mechanics and basic self-defense... come on!!! barren lands! desert! living among criminals and miserably paid work conditions! you won't survive long if you can't put your hands up!
YOU ARE A MARY SUE!!!
lol :P
I loved VII: The Force awakens, more power to it ^^~
Now in my opinion she is not a Mary Sue, because she isn't flat and generic enough to qualify. She has certain family issues, as well as a notable reluctance to commit to being a jedi. As a character she is defined by her kindness and willingness to overcome these demons of hers for the good of others, which both grants her more depth as a character and serves as a strong basis for the story arc to be built around. This makes her more likeable and believable, and in my opinion it's what keeps her from becoming a Mary Sue, though I can see where people are coming from when they believe she already is.
I hope the next movie will introduce some more hurdles for her to clear, both to further develop her as a character and to thicken the plot. It would also mirror the original trilogy if because of this the next movie ends up being the most desperate installment, much like The Empire Strikes Back was at the time. That would be very cool.
I dunno everyone seems to be getting super angry at female protagonists anyways, like you said calling it 'feminist propaganda'... like they're making a new Ghostbusters with the same formula as the old one, including the main cast consisting of SNL actors. But they have boobs, so therefore they shouldn't be protagonists.
IDK, I don't care if they have pen0r, veejay or both. If the movie is good and the characters are enjoyable, everyone should calm their tits.
What amazes me is the same people who attack these movies constantly for 'inaccuracy' (no duh, that's like in every movie adaption of a cartoon/comic) are the same people who defend that abomination yet to be sent into the world that supposedly is based off of the Suicide Squad comic... as I watched that in the theater, my mother described it like I was 'Alex DeLarge in A Clockwork Orange'
How does one not give Harley a Brooklyn lingo and confuse King Shark and Killer Croc >:T
If y'all wanna rant about inaccuracy, that seems like your critic's dream come true... but nahhh, everything else is bad except Jared Leto-kunchansamasenpai
Also I really enjoyed BvS and I will fight everyone again.
I'm glad you enjoyed BvS, cuz jeez, I want my money back
Also, is it just me or was Bruce tooootally Millerverse up there?
Miller: lol I will make canon my bitch
(the only reason I actually give him any love is for making Carrie Kelley TBH >_>)