Generally you're going to find all sorts of furries in the fandom. I've met a general blend of them.

I will say though that indeed the fandom is changing. And I don't see it as a bad thing. Having more people in more social settings is in my opinion very great. And there's no shortage of socially awkward furries who draw either.

generally its in the scope of BC here for me, I know furs from around the world, some really amazing ones, but sadly this means I will never get to do more than share art stuff with them and talk.

Would never argue that a broad range of furs is good, if anything I was lamenting that its not as broad here at times

I at one time had the spirit and joy to try and draw or even write poetry, But as my love life fell apart and as my body grows to be a burden I have not inspiration or spiritual motivation to pull upon. On top of that with how things have decayed and my general fear of being removed from the fandom by force. I likely wont ever see a gathering. good or bad. So its nice to see you really have put some thought into it.

Its a pretty depressing thought process many days, I feel the need to find just a couple folk who are like myself and live close enough by so I would not even care so much about larger group dynamics and the fact I don't fit in with a lotta newer furs.

Quite. i havent even yet reached 20 and i feel ancient. After all age in body is not always age of mind.

Hahahaha ohhhhhh maaaaaan...

You are LITERALLY going through the exact same revelation that I am. XD

I've been saying this shit for the past 2 years. "The fandom has become mainstream." "Newfurs don't even know the artists that put furry art on the map." "Why are there so many popped collars and v-necks at this party???" "Why does everyone have a slappable face?"

You're not alone. I think it's the fact that you and I are getting older and we're discovering who the genuine people are and who the scabs are. Being "furry" these days isn't about self-expression and love for fiction and imagination (and animals). To be a furry, you just have to buy an outrageous fursuit and know how to dance. The nightclub culture has dug its way so deep into this community that everyone you meet is a fucking DJ (good for you!)

I hate it. I probably hate it as much as you do. Don't get me wrong: I still love going to parties and hanging out with folks, but I don't consider those "furry" parties in the slightest. I've been trying to organize art jams again for lower mainland furs to get together and actually do something that RELATES to the core aspects of what the furry fandom is.

We're just getting old and grumpy. :P Dem fuckin kids and their loud music.

AND JANEY MAC IM NEARLY FOURTY I think my hair is turning grey...

Hahaha

I don't think it's so much a matter of age as it is how many years you've invested in something you love. For me, it's been 13 years since I discovered the furry and otherkin communities and I jumped in with both feet right away. A LOT has changed since then, and I've reached the point where I can say, "Shit. I'm considered 'old' in this group." And that's not any discredit to the people who've been around since the internet first came to life. I just feel like I'm well within my right to say that I've seen a very good portion of what this community has to offer. Good and the bad. And yet, I'm still here. :)

Its alright i consider myself old in some fields as well and im not even yet 20

thats both comforting and troubling at the same time XD

those quotes you gave are the same points and sentiments as ones I have even said in the past locally @.=.o well maybe aside the slappable face, I went more "they are a raging douche and they need to kiss a curb" hahaha

I can agree, we are getting older and we both came into the fandom, heck even bridged over from the same original community which was toted in the past as being a place all about personal identity and meaning. That kinda thought has stuck with me over the years and while I don't expect everyone to be some perfect balance of fun and brains (I am far from a good example of such myself) I still expect some base level of not-stupid. So when I see a lot of furs of any age who treat the fandom like its a cheap hooker to abuse while plastered and fried off their asses, just to dump it in the ditch when the joyride is over *cough* RF *cough* I start seeing some red because thats like watching someone take a shit all over a long time friend.

I do enjoy parties, I get drunk time to time, hell even gotten a bit stoned a couple of times, but my general stance on that's been more along the lines of, its there to enhance some parties, not be the center of em. You make a good point though, I often find myself at all sorts of meets with the thought "the only thing furry here is the fact half these fuckers don't seem to own a razor!" It started off kinda slow over the years, many events became super touchy over the furry apparel (I will give them that one in many cases) but then people started being weird about furry names, then art... like anything that was furry seems to just seems to eventually be seen as weird...even at events.... run by furries..... attended by furries... I really see it as the dude-bro booze hound culture thats relaly just all about finding places to go all out, and the furry fandom is the flavor of the decade. Art jams is always a cool standby idea, heck half my bitchin here was the fact that the island has very few artist types so the topic generally gets disregarded unless someone it talking about things they commissioned.


Getting old sure fucks with our heads then, I wonder how some of the active oldies even do it, perhaps a level of detachment from event social hierarchy? Or maybe something self-sustaining like their own projects, be it artistic, fursuit related or musical to name a few.

I think I keep it together better now knowing that there are still a few of us kicking around. Even at the parties, there's still a corner of the guys like me who stand there and not-so-silently judge the rest of the crowd getting fucked up and screaming "This furry thing is AWESOME!!! *ssssssssssssssnort!*"

We're out there. We're just a little harder to find now because a lot of us have got to the age where we're like, "Shit, we're adults, and we got adult things to do now... like mow the lawn, change the oil in my car, and send our kids to school." I do largely feel like this is the cliche of getting up near the age of thirty. You know when our dads were hearing our music for the first time when we were in high school, and they were like, "What is this shit?" Yeah. We're that guy now. Except we're saying the same thing about the new furries and the direction the fandom is going. It's sad. It makes me a little angry. But there's ultimately nothing we can do about it except band together and have dinner parties while the kids are at summer camp, play our vinyl records and revel in the good ol' days, and bitch about today's youth. XD

Trust me when I say that it reached a real low point and then started to get better. For a while, I was ridiculously salty about the whole thing. I kinda receded under my rock and buried myself in other hobbies and activities to try and forget about it. About a year ago, I met some new people that got me back into art and reminded me how fucking fun it was to just be engaged in the furry stuff. I was reminded about just how huge this thing is in my life (nevermind the otherkin thing, because that's always been there and never will leave), and I started getting back into local meets and hanging out with people WITHOUT being salty about how the community is evolving. I decided to just forget about all that bullshit and enjoy being with the people who are like-minded. I like the idea that I might even be an ambassador for the new furries who haven't been exposed to the joys of being able to nerd-out with other furs and not fear retribution for not being popular, or even a social butterfly like I am. I like to get in there and remind people that the furry community is all about accepting people for different interests and taking imagination and creativity to another level.

You and I. We're the mentors now. Those people who we revered and looked up to back in the day, when we were first discovering who we are and figuring out our identities (and, for some, spirituality) - we ARE those people now. It's up to us to set an example and show the new guys how to behave and set the stage for the guys who we used to be ten years ago. Personally, I've had my fun. I've had my own outrageous benders at fur parties where I got crazy fucked up drunk and made an ass of myself. I still have fun, but it's under way more moderation and control than it was. I'm comfortable leaving that behind and letting others do it.

In the meantime, take comfort in the fact that there are guys like us out there. There ARE other furs who've been around as long as we have (and much longer). It's just a matter of sticking around the ones you know you like and maintaining relationships with them.

hoohoooo wall of text, *rubs his claws together* I kinda live for this! XD

That is the unfortunate reality of getting older, though I may not have kids or a house, I see the other signs in me and it does semi trouble me cause its this reaction of "oh god, the mundanity, it calls for me!" haha. The fandom does have its generations gaps like anything else though, you are right, and thats gonna create its areas of disconnect where some of us feel like we just have less and less to cheer about.


If thats where you were a few years ago, I would say I am trailing a year or two behind ya then, cause I hit a mega salty patch about 2 years ago in feeling like the fandom has become a tad watered down, and I had been made to feel like a bit of a freak for being what was once the norm. Some of that might have been self-projection and worry for sure, but for me, really meshing in with a group has never been my strong suit as I almost embody this textbook case of dichotomy with how I am some times, IE being very into my own dragon spirituality, yet have a very fact and reality driven mind with other things that I see as important.

I am somewhat in my hide-under-a-rock phase right now where groups of people kinda overwhelm me and I have little filter for being nice about any stupidity that drifts my way. I can put on a smile, play nice and always do have time for the friends I know better then just group-furries, but I am still trying to find my balance again. In the past I was pushing a bit to try and bridge some things, locally I was kinda the ambassador for dragonkin (from sheer lack of others around hahaha) and it was nice that many friends could understand it and still not see me as a nutter, in turn I was also trying to get some dragonkin types a little more active outside forums and to head out into the local furry scene. I was riding a pretty good high in those days cause I felt like I was actually helping bridge things.


Again I do agree, its up to guys like us to try and show there is a solid community and people who really do care about it, someone there who can have actual input and insight into things. Its truly a balancing act of keeping the life blood flowing, but not having it go nuclear and self-destruct. Again thats why I really love meeting furs who hold the fandom in a deeper sense than just "I needed a scene to just go ham at".

I'm a unique sort of furry I think. I have no interest in wearing a birdy fursuit, I'm sure I'm not the only one but, and correct me if I'm mistaken, I think I'm rare among furries in that sense.

I do not go to conventions...mostly because I don't have a means of attending any...So how exactly am I a furry? I'm deeply connected with my parintoki bird identity and my identity as a formless soul. I express my perceptions of reality through my art and music and do so passionately. I enjoy the company of those who identify themselves in a similar way, like you, Wingfire.

You mentioned drug use, I am willing to admit that I use cannabis as a tool to aid my focus in creating my art, I feel it helps reduce the overactive clutter of my thoughts and promote my creativity to flow. Aside from that, I don't take drugs.

I prefer the creative types over the party types, if its as bad as you say, I want little part in it. I'm happy just making furry friends and hanging out ^v^

Well you do fit into a sizable demographic that just has no interest in the suit stuff, and that's totally fine, like people say, you don't need to have a suit to be a part of stuff :)

As for your next part here, I think you answered your own question, you have art and music, things you can do on your own, that means, party or no party, you still care and are active in what you like and feel, that kind of outlook and way of being is what makes for someone with quite the lasting power, someone who people will take seriously because you have a good many things well established in yourself. ^.=.^

I don't argue with people who drink or do pot when its all in moderation. The issues for me only comes when people go way overboard with it and start disrupting events or wrecking things. But some pot to get the creative juices flowing, heck yeah, I would even like to try that some day!

The party thing seems to vary a lot based on where ever you are, where I am we got a lotta big-city kinda people who seem kinda bored with stuff and need big parties so often to go crazy. @.=.@

I always think when I see these kind of posts.
Why I stick around the fandom is for the friends I've made through here and the fursuits, even though I don't really identify some of the culture.

Admittedly, there is some 'unwinding' for me, cause why should I bother going to a regular nightclub, where I feel rather out of place, when I can go as a Dragon to a fur con rave. So I do enjoy some aspects of that 'younger generation culture', but certainly not things like drugs, getting overly drunk, all the frat boy whatever, etc.
I'm basically the older one whose peers are all married with kids, but I'm hopeless enough in that regard to declare myself bachelor for life and just drown myself in work & studies. But since running about in a Dragon fursuit helps me unwind from that, rawr, that's what I'm going to do!

As for the deeper connection between the Dragon & me, it's not something I'll talk about publicly, mainly because of my own choice. So, I don't know, maybe others are like me too.

The small handful of close friends really are what keep me going some days as well, if it wasnt for them I might have just eventually severely distanced myself.

I don't argue or blame anyone for indulging in that, thats maybe a point I should have made in my initial post, I am far from anti-drug anti-booze, I just believe there has to be some moderation, or a limit to how hard things should get at events, once people start puking in rooms and having freakouts cause they did a lill too much, that's already waaaay over the line for me. I can appreciate the getting suited up and having a blast that way, I have been known to somedays just put on my suit at home just to kinda... get in that mental zen of being a dragon, it can be quite relaxing or even invigorating :)

Many Otherkin types do not feel the need to share that part of them publicly, and I can totally understand the reason why. I still am far from 100% confident to talk about that around most furs, my closest friends know about those parts of me, and that does help me to feel a little less caged up in that matter. At most, a lotta the furs who know me just know "Oh yeah, Drake is that guy who has some sorta dragon spirit beliefs"

Moderation indeed. One has to be responsible when using certain drugs for whatever reason.

I'm relatively open about my past life related experiences and their connection to my identity, philosophy, and personality. These days though, I'm intellectually honest enough about myself to admit that idk if my beliefs are reality or a fabrication of the human brain. Either way, real or fiction, it has a positive effect on the kind of person I am. I can look into a mirror and say "I like that guy, he's worth hanging out with for fun times and interesting conversations" ^v^

I like finding others like that but I only know other furs online, never met any in person that I'm aware of. Would be awesome to play videogames with a cool local fur, heh.

Yeah, for me there is a line between the Dragonkin spiritual feeling and say certain groups in the Otherkin communities just taking it way to the uncomfortable level. And I did express some of this at the VF Dragon meetup this year (not sure if you were there).

Poke me in a DM or something, or one of my IM links on my page and stuff, if you ever want to chat more on this topic. Or maybe at a con even =p

Hahah I was one of the few people that got to speak on things at the panel, if you heard the guy who said "I have tried bouncing between furry groups and otherkin groups, weather that's an effort in trying to better ones self or just an act of masochism remains to be seen" that was me XD

I would love to chat though, I am on skype and tellegram!

That does sound familiar o-0
I was the one sitting in the front, who was in fursuit and put the head on when they were asking us to introduce ourselves.

Telegram name is nightdragon0 (Yeah, that was kind of obvious lol). I use it more than Skype these days.

You'd be surprised how many others are "like you."

I know a lot of otherkin and therians in person. Like... all within a 30 minute drive from my house (I owe that to the fact that the Vancouver, BC area has a MASSIVE active furry community here). I also introduced those two terms to people who already maintained those beliefs but didn't know what to call them. There are a LOT of furries who have deeper spiritual beliefs that go beyond being a furry who simply don't know it. A lot of them think that's what being "furry" actually is.

Lucky mofo... XD

This is where I concede that the island sometimes doesn't have everything, im usually reaching out long distance to meet those kind of folk.

I've only been here for 5 years and its been...an unusual experience. Lots of good times and lots of awful ones :x
I do agree the fandom is getting mainstream and I am beginning to see it expand and merge to other fandoms like anime.

While some see that as a good thing, its hard not to feel like that also waters down furry into a palatable mush in some regards, like it has to normalize a little too much and thus starts losing what made it great in the first place.

I may still move to BC one day. :3

Hahah well there is that XD

I got into furry because I was so dragon-minded like yourself. I didn't even join FA for years because dragons (generally) don't have fur. But I did a lot of looking around and searching as a young one for dragon stuff.

Its funny just how many dragons there are in the furry fandom overall, I think we are like the 3rd highest populace XD

i got into the fandom i feel during the tail end of the generation you're talking about, i too feel kinda disconnected with a lot of the fandom now. It has become more mainstream and that brings both good and bad to it.

Also i notice a lot of newer furs seem to change species for their main sona like...every month or so. Yet i remember when species was your sense of self..it was WHO you were...maybe change after a few years after learning more about yourself but pretty much staying one thing.

It might just be nostalgia that tells me those times had a better group with being more in-tune with it all. Modern generations are more social for sure, but its not really the best kinda social when its just social media attention whoring and talking about getting wasted lol.

The species changing thing is something I always had a hard time with, I have been the same dragon (save few tiny changes) since I started off. I ave seen some people who simply go "no I made a mistake and I feel that this species here is me" and they stick with it, and that I can totally get. On the other hand some people change over the most silly things like if they see a suit for sale and want it, they will change to be that character the suit was made after, or they will flip flop through a dozen diff species to suit who ever they are around like some sorta chameleon.

I understand that it's the partiers and junk-heads who destroyed Rainfurest... at least, they were the direct cause. I don't believe they're Furries. I think they just hang around with us because if they had their own get-high-and-make-trouble conventions, no hotel in their right minds would host it. They probably make trouble for other fan-run cons, too.

Out of curiosity, do you see these get-high-and-make-trouble fans outside of cons, too?

If you like the company of other artists, you'll find them more often on art sites like FA, right? At cons they tend to be busy selling their stuff.

Thats exactly it, I have had a hard time seeing them as fur, some actually do have furry aspects, but many of these recent ones its all about the party scene first and well, what ever else second. I do feel like groups have been getting hijacked by those types.

I remember the year FCN applauded themselves for having zero medic calls, that is, zero times the paramedics were called for drug/alcohol overdose. I didn't get it. It makes sense now, they were a saner event than most.

You make it sound as if, especially in the West Coast, the day may come when there is a "furcon" and a guy is made fun of and driven out for wearing ears and a tail. I don't even.

What depresses me, is, I could feel what I loved about furry slipping away. It's everything you say, plus this - this was the place a young, naieve, shy, 20-something was able to talk, really just TALK about sex and fetish and not have it devolved into a dick-size contest. Actually religion as well. Back then, the furry survey indicated, despite the owner's reassurances we are really normal, a fandom that was 30% straight, 30% bisexual, 30% gay. 30% christian, 30% neopagan, 30% atheist.

Think about what that means for a moment. At any given event, straight christians were a small MINORITY, and had to watch their fucking mouths. XD Raver gear (not club scene, I'm talking those baggy pants, mesh tops, glowsticks, punks, pentagrams, barefoot catgirls, etc, were common, even at the supposedly "sane" FCN.

I didn't know what this fandom was about, or able to define it, until it was gone. We have artists making a LIVING on furry art, but, the concept of this crazy punk raver haven is gone. The idea of what sex-POSITIVE culture could look like, that's why there was so much sex, but, its now absorbed the aura of the sex-NEGATIVE culture around it, pretty much, you see porn star piercings on characters, you see degrading scenes, hardcore stuff involving females and BDSM, you don't see the old vibe of "OMG I want my boyfriend to tie me up cause we're in love xD" as much. The mainstream won.

However!

All is not lost!

I have heard it darkly rumored, many of the "old guard" have NOT public events. The public meets are to find out how is not a douchebag, not assbergers, not a poser, and only then will they tell you about all the OTHER events. Alas, I don't have friggin' time for all that, and also, that was years ago, so, possible even that has been overwhelmed and/or just DON'T let newcomers in at all. But it is a thought.

If I could go back in time, I'd FIGHT for a fandom that was LESS tolerant, and more "We're gonna pave the mainstream over, cause your culture sucks!" IE as punk as the characters we used to draw... but I was shy, and I didn't know what this fandom was about...

On second thought:

There may be a fight we CAN win. Perhaps, this is a "kernel" of bad apples going around the furry/rennie/sci-fi/comic con "scene". It may not be limited to just Rainfurrest, ask around! It may be possible to identify and fight back against these guys.

How about, being hardcore "mainstream" on them, like so:

Participants are responsible for their hotel rooms. There is an exit inspection, anyone who has left it a mess - blacklisted. Neither the hotel or the con will let them in next time. They are NOT allowed to register, AND on a list for security to kick out, next year! Anyone who drug overdoses - same! Present a united front from event organizers, hotel staff, and local law enforcement cooperating with each other. It would be... draconian. And it just might work.