The book type (comics for adults) or the game type?

gametype, for adults as well, something along the lines of multiple choice with different happenings etc.

They're pretty fun with proper narrative design, which most lack sadly. =/ But yeah, overall a great and underrepresented genre.

Never tried one. Though, I have seen a few played via YouTube. Could be an interesting thing to tinker with. And seems like something that works really well via Flash.

sometimes they can be exciting specially if they have bad endings, good endings, true endings ~
a good little heavy text story-line, graphics, little movements, choices, etc

yeah, that was pretty much what i was thinking about, love in detailed art and some lovely text to read through. maybe with a happy ending, and if with a cliffhanger, than a good one :D

sounds AWESOME

oh, if you have readed this one '' Sound of Drop - fall into poison - '' it got me. it had ALOT of nice stuff c:

I generally enjoy them, even the more short ones like "Highschool X Romance", but "Katawa Shoujo" is hands down my favourite~!

Hanako Best girl...

selfish self promotion..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baOdsaIZV_k

Noooo, Hanako is good, but Emi is soooo the best girl~!

i have some^^ they can be fun and fuuun XD

There are wide variety of them, some good, some bad, but in general I like them.

I think they can be fun.

I really enjoyed those which I read trough myself, such as Blackgate. Have to say though, mostly interested in visual novels about furries xD

like, those dating games? they come across as sexist power fantasies to me, to be perfectly honest.

i was more thinking of a cute story-driven thing :) where you get the chance to learn more about characters and stuff, maybe even a little soft erotic :D who knows :)

eh. just not my cup of tea. and I still really get uncomfortable with the fact that our entertainment media still presents the love and affection of women as some sort of reward for doing the correct things. like every girl is a puzzle to be solved. the idea that love can be earned. it doesn't actually work that way, and the fact that that's how it is constantly presented in our society is the root of ALOT of serious problems, many of them violent problems.

I'd just like to point out that your most recent story contains sexual slavery, which is rape, followed by Stockholm syndrome, and that the victim "won" the girl as a price way more literally than what's depicted in the media (price for raiding), getting her love and affection for doing the "nice" thing like being nice to her post rape.

I have no problems with that at all, it's fiction after all and you'd find thematically similar (or worse, rawr) stuff on my profile, but, you know, people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones :)

touche. I'm not gonna say you're wrong, cause you're absolutely right. that is a commissioned story, written for somebody I love and trust, based on a purely fantasy kink. but it does say alot about our interests what our kinks are.

I"m not gonna flat-out tell people not to play or read visual novels, either, of course. I answered the question honestly. that's how I feel about it. and just like I can be critical of games where women are portrayed as some kind of love vending machine, I can also be critical of my own interests, and of my own stories.

so don't be telling me that I shouldn't "throw stones". this kind a stuff needs to be critically evaluated.

Why is it OK for you to write such a story in pure fantasy.. but not for VN makers to do the exactly same? Why is it OK for your readers to read it, but not for people to play VN? (My position is, btw, that it's absolutely OK for you to write and enjoy such stories, just as it is OK for people to make and enjoy such games)
If you look it up, that particular kink (or the general area it is in) is one of the most widely spread ones, it was not pure chance "50 shades" got as famous as it did. VNs most often (yeah, I know, there are exceptions, there always are) depict women better than you did in your story, again, not saying the story is bad or anything.

One should just accept that it's fantasy, as well.
You know who's the main demographic that plays those games? Not chauvinistic dudebros, but guys who just can't get any (through whatever reason, including being workaholics) and still would like to get a remote sense of what being desired means. They don't think women work like that, because if they did, they would find love in the real world. They know fully well it's fantasy, they just like to pretend not to be lonely. Exactly the same as players know they can't just pop a few painkillers and bullet holes heal or they can't just shout at someone and have him be blasted away.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmNUGGGd_E8

People are able to differentiate between reality and fiction. This kind of stuff WAS critically evaluated time and time again. I can cite some studies to that amount if you want, but I have to go to work now

you are COMPLETELY misreading what I said. o_O; I specifically said that I think people should be allowed to enjoy both. I also said that people should also be critical of both. you can enjoy something and still be critical of it.

...you called the games "sexist power fantasies" above. You called it the root of many and violent problems. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

because it is.

and so are the rape-fantasy stories I write.

again, you can enjoy something and still be critical of it.

Sorry to but in on this conversation.... have you tried http://www.katawa-shoujo.com/ ??

In it (at least for me) the sex does come across as more a part of the story and character development then a reward, the reward is the story and its conclusion.

I have not. :) thankyou, I'll give it a try.

there is a line between being critical of something and being condemning of something. Everyone should be sceptic of everything, that includes you being sceptical of the rhetoric you took in, but being critical ("could that cause the problems? let's research") and condemning/dogmatic ("they cause problems! full stop!") are two different things :)

at this point you've proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are a rape-apologist.

ah yes, the good old "all my arguments fail, let's attack his character"
and not even just "shitlord", no, "rape-apologist", holy shit, you don't hold back with your ad hominems!
I gave you the benefit of the doubt, thinking "hey, maybe you were misled or it just never occured to you that your believes may be wrong", but you confirmed what I suspected from the start: you drank the cool-aid

oh well. everything is sexist, everything is racist, everything is homophobic and you have to point it all out, right?

this isn't an ad-hominem. see, the difference is, you are legitimately saying that people should NOT question fantasy rape or fantasy sexism or any other kind of fantasy violence. on the basis that it's fiction. you even go as far as to claim that these things are already critically evaluated enough. they are not, and you proved that by fighting so hard against criticism. even when I said it's perfectly acceptable to still enjoy the violent/sexist/rape-fantasy fiction in question!

you're not angry that I'm telling people what they can or can't, or should or shouldn't, enjoy -- because I have blatantly said over and over that it's totally ok to enjoy those things. no, you are offended that I would DARE point out in what ways it should be thought about critically. you even said yourself that you oppose critically evaluating the violent media we enjoy. the fictional representations of violence. and even now, you are trying to discredit me for calling it out.

if I'm wrong about your motives, and you just disagree with my premise that enjoying something and being critical of it are not mutually exclusive responses to something then come right out and say so. go on! fucking say it!

No, I'm saying they should question it, but not go around shouting how bad that all is without having ever informed themselfes - like you do. Question yes, condemn without reason, no. I did question it, I did research it, I came to the conclusion that it's bollocks. And it IS perfectly acceptable to enjoy such fantasies. Fun fact: rape fantasies? way more women have them than men do. This is not opinion, this is fact, look it up if you don't believe me. Does that mean those women want to get raped? Of course it doesn't. Because fantasy is not reality. Stop feeling guilty for your fantasy, you don't have to.
I'm offended that you tell everyone to criticise it (note: not question, criticise, because in your mind it's dead set that it is in fact harmfull, something you never proved) without ever questioning your own beliefs.

and of course you can be critical of something you like. That concept is often called "guilty pleasure".
my problem is that you postulate it to be harmfull and people who are, ahem, critical of that are suddenly rape apologists.
I say the media/games are not harmfull, at least not in those ways. That way of thought is not just a belief, like yours, it stems from extensive skeptical evaluation of the studies out there, from years back when Jack Thompson wanted to ban games for supposedly being "murder simulators" to now when Anita Sarkeesian wants the same for them supposedly being "sexist".
Prove to me that they in fact are, through proper studies (proper as in, no conflict of interest, peer reviewed, acceptable sample size etc etc, there are so many flawed studies being used time and time again) and I'll re-evaluate that point. I like to keep myself grounded in reality instead of delving down the rabbit hole of quasi-religious dogma where everyone not having the same opinion as you is a rape apologist.
(and don't say something like "prove that they don't" now, the burden of proof is on the shoulders of the side that makes the claim)

grounded in reality, you say, as you purposely lie about what I have been saying (right where it can be read again for everyone to see your bullshit)? you are relying on the biases of others to unquestioningly support you, now.

let me break this down for you.

1.) I have not said that I feel guilty about having rape fantasies. I enjoy them, and yes, I recognize them as being entirely separate from any actual desire to be raped (nobody wants to be raped. I certainly don't, and surprise surprise: I'm a rape survivor myself). being critical of the fact that a desire to play out fantasies of sexual assault (whether with ourselves as the aggressor or as the victim) maybe influence and/or be influenced by our attitudes towards real sexual assault (though by no means has to) is not the same thing as feeling guilty about it. which, I repeat for the fourth fucking time, is because you can enjoy something and still be critical of it.

2.) I absolutely believe you that women have rape fantasies more often than men. anyone can have rape fantasies. that's irrelevant on so many levels right now. stick to the fucking point.

3.) you seem to be using semantics to derail and misrepresent my point, now. we both know that I was clearly using the word "criticize" in the philosophical sense, i.e. to evaluate something. not the colloquial sense. I never once told anyone to insult or condemn these things, and you know that because I have repeatedly disclaimed that charge.

4.) it is a simple fact that if you do not question or critically evaluate rape-culture, then you are a rape-apologist. that is because that's the definition of "rape-apologist". people who make excuses for, defend, or deny rape or rape-culture. and "rape-culture" is defined as features or attitudes of a culture which normalize or encourage positive reactions to rape. however harmless a tempered rape-fantasy or fictional rape-scene is, it is still rape-culture to grant rape-fantasies or fictional depictions of rape immunity from critical evaluation. and I did not refer to you as a rape-apologist until you specifically asserted that fictional depictions of rape should not be criticized. that they are already being scrutinized too much.

5.) Anita Sarkeesian has never advocated that sexist games should be banned. you need to stop listening to the likes of TheAmazingAtheist or anyone on gamergate.

6.) you're going to have to now define for me what you mean by "conflict of interest", "peer reviewed", and "acceptable sample size", because at this point I highly doubt you are being entirely honest, and I suspect you of having personal arbitrary parameters in mind specifically designed to exclude studies you don't find agreeable and don't want to have to answer to.

lie? I invite everyone to read all above, I never once lied.

1) being critical of something you do yourself means feeling guilty for it. And (for the whatever many time) there's no reason to be critical of it because it's not something bad. just as you have no reason to feel critical about yourself wishing your boss would just shut up and die some times, or anything like that.

2) I am sticking to the point. In fact, that alone explains your number 1. There's nothing to be ashamed or critical of.

3) Yes, I differentiate between scepticism and criticism. Not because of anny ill will, but because that's the foremost definition of it. "the expression of disapproval of someone or something on the basis of perceived faults or mistakes". And all you did was expressing disapproval. If you in fact meant "the analysis .. of the merits and faults" then sure, as said before, everyone should be skeptical (or critical after that definition) of everything.
But you made it quite clear that you meant the former definition from the start. "sexist", "cause of problems", "cause of violence".
Who the fuck do you think you're kidding when you suddenly say that you meant the second definition of the word when all of your criticism was without fail negative?

4) It's a simple fact that a culture where there are laws against rape and where the mere accusation of it, without being in any way evaluated, leads to the destruction of a person, you know, like ours (like the UVA case recently) is no rape culture. Maybe you should open your eyes and look at the real world instead of "listening and believing". And yes, I know, I know, I'm a rape apologist for saying it doesn't exist, right? well, I feel I'm perfectly in my rights to call you a braindead idiot for believing it does, thank you very much.
Btw, I'm not saying none exist, a country where a woman that was raped is stoned or something, that is a rape culture. Ours isn't.

5) Sarkeesian is quite a clever girl when it comes to manipulation, so she knows what she can do by just implying it. And it works, see australia and the GTA V ban for "sexual violence" (you know, in a game where 99% of enemies and all villains are male). Also, I never once watched that amazing atheist guy, sorry to disappoint you.

6) pretty much normal stuff that makes a study valid. In every fucking area, from agriculture to electronics, medizine to genetics. stuff that should be self-explanatory. Not done by or paid for by people that have an interest, monetaril or ideological, in a particular result, a sample size that is large, randomly selected and diverse enough that it can be a stand in for the general population or specific demographic it talks about (like a study only working with gay people will not be representative of the general population), reviewed by qualified professionals in the field and so on (there are some other factors as well, like methodology errors, the importance of double blind tests if applicable, a good and large enough control group if applicable and so on, can't think of all right now, but they're not specific ones, they are true for any and all studies that should be talen seriously. No matter what they are about.)
https://sciencebasedlife.wordpress......tific-studies/
http://www.stjohnswortinfo.com/scie.....goodstudy.html (about medical, this one, but same rules apply. And the logo was perfect for you. Dunno if the rest of the site is worth anything)
http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/art.....ntific_studies
you see several themes time and time again. peer review. sample size. etc. Why? Because they're important for every single study in every fucking field.
Oh no wait, it's by total accident that all those sites that are from vastly different fields talk about the same thing as I did before, right? After all, those are just "arbitrary parameters" I have in my mind, right? I mentioned it only because I know you people just love to use long-disproven faulty studies as "proof", like the CDC one.

we've reached an impasse. you have solidified the proof of my earlier accusation now.

and you have soldified your lack of critical thinking skills. and that you, in fact, meant "critrical" in the first sense as it doesn't seem possible to you t look at it with scepticism.

I like them. They engage the player a lot more. :P

yeah right? and i love the fact that they kind of catch your attention and make you curious! since you have no possibility to kind of "skip to the end" like you do in a book or a random written text :X

It leaves you curious on what's gonna happen from your choices.

exactly! so you keep reading and clicking XD ! and eventually replay it again according to your choices haha :D

It's like reading a nove- oooooooohhh...... :P

If you get to choose like, let's say the main character is a shy but still a bit confident girl, who has a very close friend who is like in love with her but she's like super shy and such and she finds out (Or already knows) and you get the option to either Lean in and wait to see if the friend dares to kiss her, or the option to kiss her and kinda surprise her friend, imo is like the biggest turn on ever owo The blushing and looking down, clenching ones hand X3

I love reading comics but they are still "locked" and can't really be changed like some visual novels >-< Getting to choose things to get different outcomes makes it so much better (Especially if some of them are kinda unexpected X3)

I hope i gave a good answer and not just rambling around? :V

You're good. And I know exactly what you mean. It's more fun when the story goes on and how it goes is dependant on you, unlike the author. The author still has a mapping of the possible ways you can make your story, but the you're making the story more unique to you.

I really love them. Also, with visual novels, people can learn to "read" things again instead of just viewing arts and videos. Reading is also a nice experience people should enjoy, yeah ?

Personally, I've never liked them. The Story always turns out so boring that I start out trying to read it but after a while just skip everything until a choice needs to be made.. and then I don't know what to do because I didn't follow the story :D granted, only tried the adult ones, but still, no game type for me. If I want to read, I grab a book. If I want to read and game, I grab an interactive fiction game, there's way more choice, interactivity and, well, "game" in those than is in VNs
They're basically chose-your-own-adventure-books as mangas.
And since I never was a fan of mangas.. I'm just not the right target audience I guess.

Naja spielte nie viele davon, kann se also schwer einschätzen. Ausser sowas wie The Walking Dead Games zählen in die Sparte dann sind sie sehr gut sofern gute Sprecher / Story dabei sind.

Hab nie gute gefunden aber die idee find ich lustig (:

They are okay if done right. I got one visual novel where I have no interaction. It was the worse... give me choice in my games please. I spent 40 minutes clicking my mouse, and then I was unsure if there was any interaction, so I started rapid clicking to check. None from what I can see.

Dramatical Murder is one of the best of this type of game, or well one of the best. Thankfully there is a good number of games of this type and I enjoy them greatly. Its like reading a book that has mini games.