Example of copying vs referencing + lots of reading(sorry)
9 years ago
Posting this all as a message/example and in no way want anyone to go attack the person in the example! But a real example is a good opportunity to help people understand the issue further than a made up or intentional example!
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/17871241/
First off this chart is very helpful!!
But here's an example of it actually happening for reals and not an intentional example:
http://sta.sh/0cmtogq8jjh
I've tried explaining to the person the difference but they beleive it's okay because:
-they drew it themselves
-it's their OC and not Flank
-it's a different species of hynea(Flank is striped, theirs is spotted)
-it's not 100% exactly the same(notch in ear, hair isn't a mohawk, dot on face)
But I'm here to tell you guys these sorta points are NOT an excuse for copying. Copying doesn't turn into referencing just cos the species is different or cos you drew it by hand. Copying is still copying. Referencing won't look like what you referenced when done. The only reason to copy is as it states in the chart I linked first, to learn how to draw something you're struggling with but it's not something you post without permission from the original artist. This user didn't post credit to AF on the copied post. Some people will do this to sorta "get ahead" by copying an already-popular style in an attempt to be sneaky and gain interest cos their style is appealing from the start. If no credit is posted viewers don't know the style and original skill isn't actually from the artist they're following. Not ALL people who copy do this for that reason but it is why it happens sometimes. I don't think this user did it for that reason and they did post credit on a new post after I commented on the copied one, they just wanted their hyena OC in AF's style but when explained to the difference between copying and referencing that's when they denied they copied and made their excuses. I linked them that visual explanation I made and that'll be that, if they still think their copying is referencing then it may bite them in the butt later if they do it again and again but I'll be leaving them alone. Please don't attempt to find the user, they now know the info on copying vs referencing, it's up to them now if they wish to follow it.
EDIT: Something else important I think people need to know is that copyright laws don't have much to do with why copying art is bad. Yeah you're not really violating any big copyright laws by copying a cartoon animal someone else drew, but keep in mind online you're talking to and admiring the work of INDIVIDUAL HUMAN BEINGS. Not huge companies who will never ever see or know you or your work. So if you copy Disney they're not going to notice or care cos it's not going to affect them much. You'll only really get into real trouble if you attempt to mass-produce and sell stuff with a company's copyrighted content. But if you copy someone online it can hurt them. It's their years of self-taught development and skills you're taking and using as a tool to cheat ahead and that's not fair. So 'not violating any copyright laws' isn't another excuse for copying, cos here online in art communities it's about being respectful and keeping the community nice and pretty. It's about being original and helping others with that, too! People around you will love to see you develop and work hard on your own and some may even try to help you out. But if you copy and use bad excuses you'll only hurt other artists and even yourself down the road! And imagine a community of artists who only ever copied and copied just cos they never violated any laws doing it. Boring, right? XD
Also! Assuming copying is flattering to an artist is a baaaad thing! Some people believe that!! Crazy I know! But being copied is offensive, and can be hurtful or enraging for some. Especially if you never asked or if you did, you were told no, and then did it anyway. And even worse is if you attempt to make profit off copied work! It's never an honor to be copied, it's like being used and it can make an artist feel like they spent a long time working hard to develop and grow and learn just for people to use their work like a tool to cheat ahead. That is never a way to show an artist you love their work and it certainly won't allow you to properly grow or learn as an artist! :c
Overall what I think a lot of young and new artists need to know if they want to imrpove or draw like someone they like is to answer this question: Who do you think your favorite or all the popular artists copied and traced from to get where they are? Clearly the answer is no one, their styles are their own and their skills developed overtime from learning and working hard ON THEIR OWN and you can do that, too! Did they copy or reference a lot early on? Probably, some will do that especially with anime, Disney, or other popular cartoons or shows. Same with real animal photos. But they don't JUST develop from that all their life. They are popular and awesome for their styles cos they got there themselves and it shows in their works and skills. If you copy to take a shortcut then it's not true skill or style you're developing, it's just dishonesty and deception you're giving to those who may like your copied work without knowing it's copied. Work hard and take time to develop into an artist others can enjoy and don't try to be the artsits you enjoy!
For example when I first started drawing online I was on Balto Source. Everyone was drawing Balto or wolves. I drew a bit of Naruto, dinosaurs, Wolf's Rain and Ginga Densetsu Weed characters. But I didn't draw that stuff forever and I always drew it however best I could in my own way. A few years back when I started getting more into suitmakers I took a lot of inspiration from DHC and PhoenixWolf's works mainly and that influenced my style but I did realize I was drawing like their stuff a bit and I made sure to still try and develop in my own way from it and not continue to just look like their works. What helped me get better is just continuously drawing. All the time. over and over. Draw something in your own way over and over, everyday. And you just see, it'll be way improved in a month! It's that simple c: Taking some inspiration or basic concepts to help improve in there is okay. Like when I practiced humans more I took a lot of the inspiration and simplistic ideas behind Danny Phantom and Gravity Falls to help me improve the positioning and shapes of humans. Then later introduced some stuff from Naruto in there and overall humans became a little easier for me to understand how to draw but I still kept within my own sorta methods and styles.
Sadly though so many people don't beleive in themselves or are so impatient to get better they just choose to copy or steal instead :c Don't do that!
I'm sorry for the massive amount of text, sorta got carried away but also this is a pretty common issue and sometimes posting stuff like this might help someone so what the heck lol I'll post this, if you don't wanna read that's okay! If you have any other pointers or advice feel free to comment!^^
Also would anyone be inetersted if I made ANY sort of art-related guide or tutorial? Designes, drawing with shapes, how to take a real photo and learn to draw from it? etc..? Cos I've always thought about it but dunno if anyone would even like to see something like it or find it helpful!
Anyway thanks for reading if you did! Sorry if there are any typos lol
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/17871241/
First off this chart is very helpful!!
But here's an example of it actually happening for reals and not an intentional example:
http://sta.sh/0cmtogq8jjh
I've tried explaining to the person the difference but they beleive it's okay because:
-they drew it themselves
-it's their OC and not Flank
-it's a different species of hynea(Flank is striped, theirs is spotted)
-it's not 100% exactly the same(notch in ear, hair isn't a mohawk, dot on face)
But I'm here to tell you guys these sorta points are NOT an excuse for copying. Copying doesn't turn into referencing just cos the species is different or cos you drew it by hand. Copying is still copying. Referencing won't look like what you referenced when done. The only reason to copy is as it states in the chart I linked first, to learn how to draw something you're struggling with but it's not something you post without permission from the original artist. This user didn't post credit to AF on the copied post. Some people will do this to sorta "get ahead" by copying an already-popular style in an attempt to be sneaky and gain interest cos their style is appealing from the start. If no credit is posted viewers don't know the style and original skill isn't actually from the artist they're following. Not ALL people who copy do this for that reason but it is why it happens sometimes. I don't think this user did it for that reason and they did post credit on a new post after I commented on the copied one, they just wanted their hyena OC in AF's style but when explained to the difference between copying and referencing that's when they denied they copied and made their excuses. I linked them that visual explanation I made and that'll be that, if they still think their copying is referencing then it may bite them in the butt later if they do it again and again but I'll be leaving them alone. Please don't attempt to find the user, they now know the info on copying vs referencing, it's up to them now if they wish to follow it.
EDIT: Something else important I think people need to know is that copyright laws don't have much to do with why copying art is bad. Yeah you're not really violating any big copyright laws by copying a cartoon animal someone else drew, but keep in mind online you're talking to and admiring the work of INDIVIDUAL HUMAN BEINGS. Not huge companies who will never ever see or know you or your work. So if you copy Disney they're not going to notice or care cos it's not going to affect them much. You'll only really get into real trouble if you attempt to mass-produce and sell stuff with a company's copyrighted content. But if you copy someone online it can hurt them. It's their years of self-taught development and skills you're taking and using as a tool to cheat ahead and that's not fair. So 'not violating any copyright laws' isn't another excuse for copying, cos here online in art communities it's about being respectful and keeping the community nice and pretty. It's about being original and helping others with that, too! People around you will love to see you develop and work hard on your own and some may even try to help you out. But if you copy and use bad excuses you'll only hurt other artists and even yourself down the road! And imagine a community of artists who only ever copied and copied just cos they never violated any laws doing it. Boring, right? XD
Also! Assuming copying is flattering to an artist is a baaaad thing! Some people believe that!! Crazy I know! But being copied is offensive, and can be hurtful or enraging for some. Especially if you never asked or if you did, you were told no, and then did it anyway. And even worse is if you attempt to make profit off copied work! It's never an honor to be copied, it's like being used and it can make an artist feel like they spent a long time working hard to develop and grow and learn just for people to use their work like a tool to cheat ahead. That is never a way to show an artist you love their work and it certainly won't allow you to properly grow or learn as an artist! :c
Overall what I think a lot of young and new artists need to know if they want to imrpove or draw like someone they like is to answer this question: Who do you think your favorite or all the popular artists copied and traced from to get where they are? Clearly the answer is no one, their styles are their own and their skills developed overtime from learning and working hard ON THEIR OWN and you can do that, too! Did they copy or reference a lot early on? Probably, some will do that especially with anime, Disney, or other popular cartoons or shows. Same with real animal photos. But they don't JUST develop from that all their life. They are popular and awesome for their styles cos they got there themselves and it shows in their works and skills. If you copy to take a shortcut then it's not true skill or style you're developing, it's just dishonesty and deception you're giving to those who may like your copied work without knowing it's copied. Work hard and take time to develop into an artist others can enjoy and don't try to be the artsits you enjoy!
For example when I first started drawing online I was on Balto Source. Everyone was drawing Balto or wolves. I drew a bit of Naruto, dinosaurs, Wolf's Rain and Ginga Densetsu Weed characters. But I didn't draw that stuff forever and I always drew it however best I could in my own way. A few years back when I started getting more into suitmakers I took a lot of inspiration from DHC and PhoenixWolf's works mainly and that influenced my style but I did realize I was drawing like their stuff a bit and I made sure to still try and develop in my own way from it and not continue to just look like their works. What helped me get better is just continuously drawing. All the time. over and over. Draw something in your own way over and over, everyday. And you just see, it'll be way improved in a month! It's that simple c: Taking some inspiration or basic concepts to help improve in there is okay. Like when I practiced humans more I took a lot of the inspiration and simplistic ideas behind Danny Phantom and Gravity Falls to help me improve the positioning and shapes of humans. Then later introduced some stuff from Naruto in there and overall humans became a little easier for me to understand how to draw but I still kept within my own sorta methods and styles.
Sadly though so many people don't beleive in themselves or are so impatient to get better they just choose to copy or steal instead :c Don't do that!
I'm sorry for the massive amount of text, sorta got carried away but also this is a pretty common issue and sometimes posting stuff like this might help someone so what the heck lol I'll post this, if you don't wanna read that's okay! If you have any other pointers or advice feel free to comment!^^
Also would anyone be inetersted if I made ANY sort of art-related guide or tutorial? Designes, drawing with shapes, how to take a real photo and learn to draw from it? etc..? Cos I've always thought about it but dunno if anyone would even like to see something like it or find it helpful!
Anyway thanks for reading if you did! Sorry if there are any typos lol
FA+


Also I'm going to edit it here in a sec if you wait, gonna add some bits about copyright laws!