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Gay and Christian, celibacy or not?
9 years ago
General
I just saw this article today with the title:
Gay, celibate and Christian: US evangelical in Melbourne for same-sex talks and it begins...
Wesley Hill takes the view that if you're gay and Christian, you have two choices: monogamous heterosexual marriage, or a life of celibacy. He chose the latter.
"The more I searched the scriptures, the more I couldn't convince myself that same-sex marriage was a faithful Christian vocation," says the US evangelical, who is currently in Australia for a series of talks that have raised concerns among the gay community, progressive Christians and the Andrews government...
...and it continues. The link being: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/g.....06-gqmiet.html
So it's this old question on many people's minds. We have a large number of gay Christians who study the scriptures and come to the conclusion that same-sex relations for those who are oriented as such are healthy and scripturally sound, and we have a fair number of people who study the very same scriptures and come to the conclusion that gays should remain celibate. Of course, this guy has the extra added: okay to be married as if you're heterosexual, which seams like a really bad idea, but we'll ignore that aspect and just go with the sex, or celibate outcome.
So what's right? What should we be doing? We have two very sincere, supposedly well-researched conclusions, and it's dangerously over-simplifying to suggest that the celibacy conclusion is based on some type of self-loathing bias coloring the outcome.
If God cares about these things, and we care about our relationship with Him, we don't want to be angering Him simply because we choose to believe something which we might be severely warned not to engage in. As a bisexual man in a monogamous straight marriage, I don't have this pressing need to know for myself. But I've studied and have come to my own conclusions so that I could wholeheartedly encourage my friends who are gay Believers.
The fact is, there is very little scripturally about same-sex relations, either right or wrong. Jesus never mentions one thing about same-sex relationships, but does acknowledge there are "eunuchs" either by injury or by their own choice, but there is also a third group which are "born" that way. This is significant because in the ancient world "eunuch" did not mean a celibate person, but one who had no sexual desire for the "opposite" sex. Those "born" that way didn't choose it as a lifestyle. There are many ancient writings about sexual relations among eunuchs.
In the clobber passages often used against loving committed same-sex relationships, when you break down the Greek and Hebrew, they are admonishments against gay prostitution, religious ritual sex, and having gay relations on your wife's bed, but it's all ambiguous at best. To come to the conclusion that gay relations are wrong, is pretty much stating that because the Bible doesn't make it absolutely plain that it's okay, then it must be wrong. That gets a little troublesome when you realize that there is no biblical permission to use a smartphone, or to replace your grass with gravel, or go skydiving, or to keep cats as pets.
There are however non-ambiguous scriptures against divorce and adultery which Christians rarely judge either other for, and never to proclaim that someone is going to Hell over, as many do about gay people who form loving committed relationships, where there is nearly nothing in the Bible about that specific subject.
So no, there is nothing I know of biblically giving permission for gay people to be sexually active.
Realize too that many of the admonishments singling out so-called sex sin are post-scriptural. In the 13th century Thomas Aquinas argued that 'sodomy' is second only to murder in the ranking of sins. Did he get that from the Bible? Not at all, but I'm sure it was through the same 'fasting and prayer' in which other scholars of the time came to their possibly different conclusions of.
So what's the answer then? Where do we go for answers in the Bible when it is often the source of such ambiguity? I've been Agnostic with Deist leanings ever since the beginning of June this year, but I respect people who are trying to be true to their Christian faith and I'd like to direct you, as I've recommended before, to a very wonderful and lengthy passage in the New Testament by none other than the Apostle Paul, Romans chapter 14...
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+14&version=NKJV
Jare
Gay, celibate and Christian: US evangelical in Melbourne for same-sex talks and it begins...
Wesley Hill takes the view that if you're gay and Christian, you have two choices: monogamous heterosexual marriage, or a life of celibacy. He chose the latter.
"The more I searched the scriptures, the more I couldn't convince myself that same-sex marriage was a faithful Christian vocation," says the US evangelical, who is currently in Australia for a series of talks that have raised concerns among the gay community, progressive Christians and the Andrews government...
...and it continues. The link being: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/g.....06-gqmiet.html
So it's this old question on many people's minds. We have a large number of gay Christians who study the scriptures and come to the conclusion that same-sex relations for those who are oriented as such are healthy and scripturally sound, and we have a fair number of people who study the very same scriptures and come to the conclusion that gays should remain celibate. Of course, this guy has the extra added: okay to be married as if you're heterosexual, which seams like a really bad idea, but we'll ignore that aspect and just go with the sex, or celibate outcome.
So what's right? What should we be doing? We have two very sincere, supposedly well-researched conclusions, and it's dangerously over-simplifying to suggest that the celibacy conclusion is based on some type of self-loathing bias coloring the outcome.
If God cares about these things, and we care about our relationship with Him, we don't want to be angering Him simply because we choose to believe something which we might be severely warned not to engage in. As a bisexual man in a monogamous straight marriage, I don't have this pressing need to know for myself. But I've studied and have come to my own conclusions so that I could wholeheartedly encourage my friends who are gay Believers.
The fact is, there is very little scripturally about same-sex relations, either right or wrong. Jesus never mentions one thing about same-sex relationships, but does acknowledge there are "eunuchs" either by injury or by their own choice, but there is also a third group which are "born" that way. This is significant because in the ancient world "eunuch" did not mean a celibate person, but one who had no sexual desire for the "opposite" sex. Those "born" that way didn't choose it as a lifestyle. There are many ancient writings about sexual relations among eunuchs.
In the clobber passages often used against loving committed same-sex relationships, when you break down the Greek and Hebrew, they are admonishments against gay prostitution, religious ritual sex, and having gay relations on your wife's bed, but it's all ambiguous at best. To come to the conclusion that gay relations are wrong, is pretty much stating that because the Bible doesn't make it absolutely plain that it's okay, then it must be wrong. That gets a little troublesome when you realize that there is no biblical permission to use a smartphone, or to replace your grass with gravel, or go skydiving, or to keep cats as pets.
There are however non-ambiguous scriptures against divorce and adultery which Christians rarely judge either other for, and never to proclaim that someone is going to Hell over, as many do about gay people who form loving committed relationships, where there is nearly nothing in the Bible about that specific subject.
So no, there is nothing I know of biblically giving permission for gay people to be sexually active.
Realize too that many of the admonishments singling out so-called sex sin are post-scriptural. In the 13th century Thomas Aquinas argued that 'sodomy' is second only to murder in the ranking of sins. Did he get that from the Bible? Not at all, but I'm sure it was through the same 'fasting and prayer' in which other scholars of the time came to their possibly different conclusions of.
So what's the answer then? Where do we go for answers in the Bible when it is often the source of such ambiguity? I've been Agnostic with Deist leanings ever since the beginning of June this year, but I respect people who are trying to be true to their Christian faith and I'd like to direct you, as I've recommended before, to a very wonderful and lengthy passage in the New Testament by none other than the Apostle Paul, Romans chapter 14...
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+14&version=NKJV
Jare
I'm of the mind that the Levitical laws are unimportant. But in spirit, what the whole of Christianity teaches is a life centered on the spirit.
Sex becomes what we might call a sin when it takes center stage. It does not become a sin for its own sake like murder because there is no harm against person, trust, or property unless there is some aggravating factor (i.e. in the case of adultery where trust is breached).
So no, I see no reason that a Christian, straight or gay, should have to remain celibate because that isn't the point. The point is to shed attachment to worldly things and forcing onesself into chastity just replaces one attachment (to sex) with another (to actively stifling the body).