HELL YEAH

You can but my question is, what exactly makes them feel male then? What separates a cis female liking femme stuff to a transmale liking femme stuff? I don't mean to sound mean or anything, it's just very confusing. How does one know they're a transmale that still is very into femme stuff and has mannerism of a femme and not be seen or confused as a regular cis female? What is the part that the person sense is male inside themselves? Again I'm not trying to be mean or nothing, it's just nobody fully sits down and tries to explains this. I've seen plenty of confused individuals who claim certain labels when they fit more into others once they fully explain their reasons behind what they feel inside.

thank you for being polite about it, but being a trans male doesnt mean that you have to dislike 'femme' things..
clothes, foods, colours, objects

society today has trained our minds to think that they need to be gendered and put into categories.
boys cant wear pink because they'd look girly, girls cant wear certain things or theyre called 'tom-boys'.
My boyfriend is a trans male, because he knows in his heart and body that he is a man. No matter what genitals he has, no matter what things he likes, no matter what he looks or sounds like.
He feels like he is a man, and therefore is a man.

Just like I dont,,,have a certain gender. I can go by any, you can call me a boy, a girl, them...anything. And yet I still enjoy mostly 'femme' things.
I hope that helps explain it??

I agree with you there. Society does put a lot of needless gender labels on stuff even to include activities such as fishing, sewing, wrestling, etc. It is true that objects, nor activities have nothing to do with gender. My dad can wear pink and still be a masculine man on the inside. Color doesn't change one gender. It's just I feel that the labels of being trans are kinda often confused still tho. And It does seem like there's a lot of people who think that they are trans, but often mean something else. I have had people think they were trans but later on felt that genderfluid was what they really felt or etc.

When it comes to certain transmen that often are very overly femme, even gay too at times, it can often make other trans folks even regular folks wonder, what exactly then makes them male on the inside then? Is there something in particular that they feel that really makes them know they are more def a femme male then a regular cis female?

I only ask this, cause with a lot of real trans males, one of the clear signs they are male regardless of what they like are their needs and urges that real cis males experience, compared to a cis female. Stuff that have been able to be picked up in brain studies and etc, like the need to impregnate, feeling phantom parts, etc.

N i understand that, but you have to udnerstand that gender isnt something,,that simple?
A transman is a transman because they feel as if they are a transman. In their heart and body.

And of they can learn overtime that they might not be! They might be something different, like nonbinary or genderfluid
but a trans person doesnt have a 'look' and they dont have an 'action' that sets them out as th 'real' trans people...

m sorry if youre confused on it, n im sorry i just get really upset over these things,,,i hope i could explain it??

As time goes, there are more scientific things that show that an individual is born trans. Being trans scientifically means your brain developed one way while your body developed in the other direction. Trans means you have the mind of one gender while your body is another. It can also be shown in those that are intersex, despite the genitals they have or were kept with. With that, there are things in the brain of trans individuals that can been seen and things that can be phantomly felt at times, again often connected to the urges and desires that real cis males feel. A lot of individuals make it sound that being trans is more like a option/opinion, then something that is really felt.

I have rarely come across many individuals that can fully explain why they feel trans deeply other then simple things that many other regular cis people feel.

I don't mean to upset anyone. Just at times there needs to be more things broken down and explain to why an individual is indeed fully trans then just saying "cause they are." Anyone can claim to be trans. Why it's a seems to be more of a trendy thing, then something that is actually proven.

Friendo.

I understand you're trying to be polite, and not upset anyone. I'll try to do the same.

But that entire first paragraph is simply not fact, and I'd ask you to do some more "scientific research" (being transgender has little to nothing to do with biological science, and much more to do with sociological and psychological science).

Being trans scientifically means your brain developed one way while your body developed in the other direction. Nope.

Trans means you have the mind of one gender while your body is another. Nope.

one of the clear signs they are male regardless of what they like are their needs and urges that real cis males experience. This is /especially/ offensive. "Real cis males". I'm not sure you realize how exclusionary, erasive, and aggressive that statement sounds. There are cis males who are asexual, and passive, and like to dress in "feminine" clothing without being trans or even gay. All things associated with cisgender femininity.

I would strongly urge you to especially research nonbinary genders. Your stance is not unusual, but painfully cisnormative, erasive, and, again, as gently as possible, visibly uneducated as to the psychological and sociological aspects of being transgender.

Also, I hope my statement "All things associated with cisgender femininity." is taken in the dry stereotype label it's meant to convey. I know sarcasm doesn't always translate well via text.

I have done plently of research already and even answers coming from other transmen themselves from forums and from transmen in person. Yes, being trans can also be also part psychological science as well as it is Biological.

The problem is there does seem to be a lot more Sociological trans folk then there are the real ones that are biological and psychological. This is the different types of trans I've experience in the community.

The Biological transman: Born with the brain development of a male, while the body was influnced to develop into a female body due to different factors during the process of growth development in the womb of the mother. Could be due to something that threw off or effected the mother's hormones/etc like certain meds and medical condition during that time. There have been many studies where this seems very common especially with mtfs. Also there are a lot of transmen that are effected by condition such as PCOS and etc, that can also have a biological and psychological effect on why someone would feel they're trans. Having conditions that can produce way higher amounts of hormones such as testosterone and androgen is a bological thing that can easily effect someone psychologically into feeling trans at times. Tho it is not always the case but if you do your research there are a lot of Transmen with PCOS or just very high levels of testosterone naturally. One of the transmen I know in person has very very high levels of testosterone naturally since birth and even has the enlongated genital growth from it's effect. Since birth, he had the natural sense of being male to include having the urges and feelings of getting off sexual the same as male and still does to this day. Of course there are asexual transmales in the world. But at the same time, doesn't mean asexuals don't get the natural urge to masturbate at times or doesn't mean they don't have phantom feels of a cock either.

The psychological transmen: There are some transmen that feel that they're trans due to past mental trauma or event that has effected them. I know a transmale that became trans becomes they were rape/molested as a child growing up by their dad and other men in the family. Because of that, they only date females due to trust issues and only portray themselves as male so that they more in control and protected against other males attraction towards them. They are psychologically trans as a defense mechanism, but due to any other factor.

The sociological transmen.: This seems to be the Most common at of all types of transmen, especially found on the internet. Ones that claim to be trans just cause they want to, or they feel that it's cool/etc something that breaks society's mold on gender, etc. These transmen tend to not have real reasons as to why they feel male, other then just not wanting to fit in the box. Could be cause they're tired of being treated a certain way as a female since yes there plenty of stuff in the media still that makes it sound like women have to only be a certian way, etc. So they feel that if they take on the image of being male they'll be treated better, and they'll be allowed to do certain activites, without question. Or prehaps a lot are just heavy tomboys that feel that they may be trans due to stuff they wear and how they portray themselves, etc. Again when asked they don't have any real deep reasons as to why they feel they are other then trying to break society's box on gender, compared to the biological ones where there is clear physical signs of effects on the body.

I mention nowhere, that males can't be femme. There are plenty of femme males just like there are plenty of masculine females. What I asked is, what exactly does a femme transmale feel that lets him know for sure he is male that likes femme stuff compared to that of a cis female? This is something that is kept very vague and not broken down when asked and may times just ends up being "They are just cause." There clearly has to be something that separates a femme cis female from a femme transmale. If there is nothing that separates it, then taking on the label of being a "transmale" doesn't make much sense to me as genderfluid or just NB would. I've seen too may online that claim to be transmales when they're clearly like any other cis female in all aspects.

So yes I have done my research and observing for a good couple of years now, on top of actual experience.

Another thing I like to add to psychological is the dysphoria part of it. A lot confuse many types of dysphoria with their body with meaning that they are trans. A transman once realized this himself but when he observed and asked a crowd of people he noticed that pretty much everyone had some kind of dysphoria with their body in some way. A lot of people assume if you have any type of dysphoria with your body then you must be trans in some way. Nope, that isn't always the case. There can be females that don't feel comfortable with having breasts, but doesn't mean they see themselves as males either or means they are male. There are females that don't like being curvy or heavy set, again doesn't mean they're trans for it. Having some type of dysphoria I've noticed does confused a lot of people in the gender area at times.

You should research into 'gatekeeping'.

There is no checklist for these sorts of things and your comments feel like you want there to be one or you're trying to prove one. Anyone can enjoy anything without it interfering with identity, nobody needs to feel phantom dicks or urges to be a transman, you do not have to hate your body to be trans, you can in fact *enjoy* femme things and your body. You have a very binary way of speaking and it's upsetting, you should probably research into agender, genderfluid, and non-binary types because it is erasive to speak in a way that is 'you claim to be A but you enjoy things that are for B so what makes you A' it isn't just femme and masc. If I were you I would talk to my trans friends again and look at research a lot harder before trying to speak up on what being trans is, I'm assuming you're not trans yourself and with all your years of research and trans friends you should know better than to try and speak over anyone who is on what it is to be trans.

Also I would like to add that not every trans experience is the same, people are all very different so everyone's experiences are different.

Sorry if its a little rough I usually never respond to these sorts of things ever but you seem genuine and amicable enough, though misguided by whatever deep scientific biological based research you've done? I guess long answer short: you do not need anything to *make* you feel male, it is a ridiculous notion that any outside influences can *make you feel male* and what separates a cisgendered female to liking femme stuff from a transman liking femme stuff is that one is a cisgender female and the other a transman, you do not have to abandon *femme* anything to be a trasnman. Shrug. Everything is a lot more gray than it is black and white.

I'm not saying you have to abandon anything femme when you're a transman. Again I'm not stating anywhere that males in any type of way can't enjoy anything femme. Its not what I'm saying at all. Again I'm asking for the feelings explained behind it. The psychology behind it. All I'm asking.

There are many that claim a label but are not really that label when things are fully broken down and explained. Again nobody is fully explaining what a femme transman feels that lets them know they are a femme transman not a cis femme female, especially if that said femme transman fully presents femme even with fully accepting their female body? It's hard to explain. If someone is fully happy with their female body and doesn't mind presenting in such way and then adding femme things on top of that, I'm not sure were exactly the "transmale" part lays at? What part of them is transmale at that point? If it's something psychology, then what is that feeling or thought? This is what's not explained. When it's not explained, it just feels like to me you're taking any cis femme female and just calling them "transmale" just cause, with nothing behind it if that makes sense.

It's hard to fully understand and learn things when nobody is fully explaining the reasoning behind it and the reasoning behind taking on certain labels instead of others if that makes sense. I'm very open to learning and understanding all of this if there is actual reasoning behind it. If there's no reasoning or anything then it just feels like people just enjoying breaking "society's gender box" for whatever reason. Again, clothing, objects, colors, activities have nothing to do with gender. Liking femme stuff doesn't make your gender, Liking masculine stuff doesn't make your gender. To me, if all these things are taken away, then when does one exactly knows what gender they are then, right?

To me, at the end of the day, I think it comes down to needs and urges of the individual. Clearly from all the cis females I know, they do not have the natural instinct/ urge to want to impregnate. The natural urge to want to penetrate and impregnate, even at times feel the sensation of a cock is something that I've only seen express in males. Same with with the reversal. To me, if you have that natural urge to want to penetrate and impregnate, etc, stuff that mainly only comes natural to males, that is a big clue that you're a transmale. If that makes sense. So to me you can sit here and tell me you love all the femme stuff in the world, wear everything girly all day, etc, but if you're telling me you have that natural urge to do the stuff just mention, then it makes very much sense to me you're a femme transman. But again, not every cismale feels that way, yes some are asexual and don't really have that need, but it's a really big thing that would make sense as to why someone feels transmale despite their liking for femme things. Again not something you would find in a cis female when it comes to those natural feelings and urges.

Same goes for a transwoman. I know of a transwoman that loves masucline stuff and doesn't really care for anything girly in the least. But there is still reasonings as to why she knows she's female at the end of the day despite not liking anything fem. Things obiviously that only females can feel and have urges for. If that makes.

I don't think you're gonna understand at all with the line of thoughts you're trying to get across buuuuuut,

Genitals and sex have nothing to do with gender. Pegging is an entire thing for your weird cisfemale and penetration thing you brought up. Having sexual urges that you have gendered as male or female exclusively does not effect gender. Having a preference or a kink or anything like that has nothing to do with gender. Gender has nothing to do with sex unless you're cis I guess.


It really just sounds like a roundabout argument of trying to puzzle together someone's gender based on their genitals or sexual preferences and that's? Rude?

To be quite frank how or why someone identifies as what they identify as is none of your business, even if you think they have labeled themselves incorrectly. And nobody owes you any explanation about how or why or what they identify as. You're asking for someone to basically *prove* they are correctly labeling themselves. You didn't google gatekeeping at all.

Also probably never boil anything down to wanting to penetrate and impregnate again bc that's just. Fucking Yikes my dude. If I were a femme transman I would avoid you for miles and wouldn't ever want to explain any of my thoughts or feelings bc yikes yikes Yikes

1. I did google Gatekeeping. Please don't assume I didnt.

2. I said natural urges to impregnate and penetrate. Pegging can easily be a fetish for someone, and it doesn't mean the person pegging wants to do it naturally. They could just be doing it for the sexual pleasure of the person receiving it, not cause they have that inner thirst to do it.

3. Again nobody is explaining anything about the question I keep asking. If you're wanting those to be more open minded and understand about how trans/genderfluid/genderqueer/NB/etc people feel, then it would most def help in trying to talk someone through it instead of still dancing around the topic at hand. This is why I can see why anyone can be confused by things like this and stay confuse, cause again nobody is willing to sit down and actually discuss it openly.


Simple question, What makes a person know they are a femme trans male?

This is my last reply. Just. I'm sorry? I think if you have read through all of these comments I've left and others have and you haven't figured out what *makes* a person know then you're just not in a place to understand it yet maybe? And that's fine. If you honestly want to understand I think you'll get it eventually.

Here's a reply to your underlined question though.
Like I said before things are different for every trans experience and person, so there is no concrete answer anyone can give you other than they will just know because it *is* them, no outside factors or people decide your gender for you or how you identify, its all up to *you*. There doesn't need to be any sort of proof or checklist to prove they aren't just cisfemale, because they just aren't. It really is that simple. Someone says they are a thing, cool that's what they are even if they enjoy things you think don't fit.

I would definitely work on how you talk to people about this because a lot of the things you've said even if backed by science or biological research is really hurtful and offensive and kind of? Just terrible and rude. Talking about biological sex in any sense with gender is just Not Great. Nobody needs a reminder thrown in their face that people don't get it or think this or that about them because of some published garbage from a sewer research. And you are very, very, painfully, erasive of NB genders and people. ): Hope it helps, peace dude.

I'm sorry if science and biological reasons why trans people can exist hurt you? I don't see how that is hurtful and offensive if there are reasons and ways to prove why trans folks can exist and make sense? If anything I find that quite helpful and would even explain why some people feel the way they do. and so do other transmales. A lot of the research I read on this was posted and linked on forums from other transmales.

Clearly you weren't reading what I was writing.

What you describe as people "dancing around the topic at hand" is likely reaction to you stating that you're open to learning, but putting people in a position where they feel like they have prove their existence. Which isn't a very comfortable position for those you are asking and will put them on the defensive, as opposed to providing an open ground for discussion. Some trans people would feel comfortable discussing within that sort of environment; many will not and will not want to engage in your discussion. They're not obligated to prove that their gender exists to you nor are they obligated to discuss the general topic of gender/transgender with you. It doesn't mean that they're a "fake" trans person.

"If there's no reasoning or anything then it just feels like people just enjoying breaking "society's gender box" for whatever reason. Again, clothing, objects, colors, activities have nothing to do with gender. Liking femme stuff doesn't make your gender, Liking masculine stuff doesn't make your gender. To me, if all these things are taken away, then when does one exactly knows what gender they are then, right?"

I would suggest watching this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59-Rn1_kWAA

And reviewing this graphic: http://10oclockdot.tumblr.com/post/.....nly-genders-is

Although video does not acknowledge that NB genders are a thing and sometimes conflates gender with genitals or chromosomes, it discusses that a lot of ideas and language on the concept of "gender" and "sex" are inadequate to fully understand and represent gender. People who can't explain why they are trans and are "breaking society's gender box for whatever reason" is completely understandable: because modern western conception about gender are grossly simplified at best, and the framework of it false/misunderstood at worse, and they don't feel comfortable describing themselves in a binary manner, or even a NB manner, and might prefer to use "trans." Biological "truths" about binary men and women are not useful to the discussion of the science of gender, because there are plenty of biological factors and incidences related to gender that we know now can't be explained in this way.

"What makes a person know they are a femme trans male?"

There's no mathematical formula to be found on why someone's gender is X. Like infinitesimal has stated, "trans" is an extremely broad and varied category in regard to people who don't feel they are cisgender, in the way that "cisgender" is currently viewed by popular western thought. Trans person A might describe their experience as "being a women and a man's body" and have severe disphoria about their genitals, thus conflating their gender to their genitals/body. Trans person B is AFAB (assigned female at birth), is a non-binary trans person, and feels their gender is irrelevant to their genitals or any kind of "biological" reason, and wants to be seen differently or a certain way as opposed to being labeled "a woman" because they are AFAB. The experiences of trans person A and trans person B conflict each on the fundemental idea of "gender", but its does not mean that either of them are "fake trans" or doing saying their trans because it's "trendy"; they are both true, lived experiences of "trans."

Ultimately, an underlying reason femme transmen and masctrans men and any other trans people is that their conception and desctiption of themselves as "trans"/use of he/him pronouns, etc. makes them happy and enriches their. A femme transman feels happiest and most comfortable when described in a masculine way, while a ciswoman would not want to be discribed as a "transman" or refered to as a man.

In regard to sexual "urges"/desire to impregnate or be impregnated being an indicator of someone being transgender... the vast majority of trans people will be offended by that because it reduces their sexual preference and gender identity to biological functionality and social darwinism. Heck, a lot of CIS PEOPLE are probably offended by that being the determining factor of their gender. Like you stated, an asexual cisman who has no desire to have sex for pleasure or biological reasons should not get their identity as a man questioned. A trans person who told you that's what made them feel trans has a right to say that for themselves, but certainly does not speak for the enormous variety of trans people that exist.

*Enriches their life

AMEN

U GODDAMN RIGHT

fucking absolutely thank u