Well, one can only beat a subject so much. Before it turns into an ongoing and relentless joke.
Fatalism, pessimism are often hand in hand. And what with Rick's detachment from society and pretty much life it's self. His "outlook" just seems to be "I exist because I do, and fuck the universe because of it"

When the shows precipice is based off of that....yeah you can only do so many jokes about it

I'm amazed anyone would still have any faith in it after the Season 3 premiere destroyed everything interesting they'd built up over the first two seasons, all for "LOL MULAN SAUCE!!!! XDDDDD" and "Rick can do no wrong, no matter how selfish and spiteful he is towards everyone".
Season 3 is like they gave complete creative control to an edgy teenager using Rick as their self-insert. The show's dead, that's all that needs to be said.

I hated the premise from episode 1.

I never thought of it as deep, I didn't know other people did, that's odd to me. I always saw it as a fluff piece, it's basically archetypical cartoon hijinx as filtered through a depressed college student. Honestly though, literally anything that has a "Everything is shit" motif gets touted as being deep and philosophical by people who are lazy and want to blame the universe for their problems instead of just doing something about them. Always seems to have been the case, probably always (sadly) will be.

I agree. I never thought it was trying to be deep or even provide any commentary. I always thought the cynicism was just part of Rick's character and was just there to add an extra adult-oriented touch. I enjoy this show because I just find it funny. I think people who think it is deep may just be looking too far into it. Maybe that just comes with the territory of being an adult who watches a cartoon: we want to think there is more to it than just fun entertainment because we want to feel like adults. "We're not kids, after all!"

You are where i was in season 2

Also the show sort of refuses to commit to any over arching plot. Its just frustrating

Well to be honest, I kinda FORGOT what Season 2 was like during the interim between 2 and 3. So I kinda forgot what it was like.

I literally just said the same thing twice in two sentences. I need to get some sleep.

s'ok man

the show runners claim to have an over arching plot behind the scenes but I get what you are saying. leaving the vaguest hints of an over arching plot where only the most obsessed fans who would scour every episode frame by frame can find it doesn't make a good series. personally I am treating this like I treat The Simpsons, funny when I watch it without substance to continue after I am done.

Plus the Pickle Rick bit went on way too long.

Ok, i feels its fair to have an opinion about a show, second is that if a show doesn´t have a positive message doesn´t automaticly make it a bad show, Rick adn Morty take the route of exploiting the negative side of our society in a comedic way, thus making light and turning things on their head not to make its audience sad but to see it all through an outside perspective and enjoy the absurdity of it all, Rick and Morty is not mimicing life but exagerating it to its limits, and tell me, why should a show HAVE to have a positive message? what a show is is a form of art to express an autor or artists expression and thoughts of a topic or subject with a unique light, not all is roses and not all is thorns, but Rick adn morty is not all negative, Bird person was a character that despite his arc was a positive seeking character, true that is a small example and the character has died in season 2 but still not all was negative but it was a way to show Rick´s human side as he showed a feeling of loss in that moment, Rick also tries to protect Morty in his own way, despite Rick´s distancing himself from his own humanity due to his activities leading him to leaving his own reality behind, literally after he loses control. all of people can connect with a negative more then a positive, that is a reality adn Rick and morty can connect alot with them with that but it doesnt make it so a viewer ill ever feel sad or depressed or even selfloathing, the most i have felt with this show was a sense of sadness to not seeing a character getting a break, even Rick in the episode with Unity, the end shows Rick feeling a painful break up due to his distance of humanity he can no longer have a relationship without being self destructive, and we can empathise with that.
But im rambling now, i do hope i made my point but in short, Rick adn Morty is a sho that is not a positive show, but its a good show that explores those negative subjects and topics to its ridiculous limits to break the heavy feeling they hold.

Or just try to watch it as not a kids show. go watch steven universe, also a good show.

Just FYI.... the ENTER key is your friend. It's difficult to read this wall of text. x_x;

I never said that not having a positive message is a bad thing in and of itself. Nor did I say having a positive message was absolutely necessary. Breaking Bad had a pretty negative overall feel to it, and I loved that series. Watchmen (the comic, not the movie) wasn't all sunshine. But splicing relentless negativity in with the narrative equivalent of "just kidding" doesn't make you a brilliant comedian.

As for Rick being a character we should pity... no. No. I don't buy that even for an instant. That scene where Rick is attempting suicide in the garage? There was a whole monologue in the previous scene about how utterly and unrepentantly destructive he is to everyone around him. And it honestly baffles me that people feel sorry for a character who snuffs out life like it isn't even a thing. He literally has the body count of a billion Hitlers.

Hell, this most recent episode? Basically Rick states that people who like superheroes, even as a concept, are idiots. And to illustrate this point, the show gives us superheroes that have idiotic powers or absurd motivations and desires. It's basically like a straw man political cartoon, without the politics. And in the episode previous, Rick had it spelled out for him that HE is the one who chooses to wallow in his depravity and bitterness. And even throughout all this, he's still the character that can never do wrong, edging him ever closer into Mary Sue territory.

My beef isn't that the show isn't "happy enough." It's that it's now so negative, it's pathetic.

Well, i simply stated what i thought of the show regarding your comment since i feel saying something to someone with a similar opinion wouldnt cause much of a discussion to happen besides agreement and Rick is a person, a horrible one but a person, he is the equivalent of what is wrong with everything in society adn how that turns one into a Rick, he obviously has a ton of issues he hides behind his genius, and that is what makes me atleast want to know his struggles, not pity him, because despite his disregard for life, he still comes back home, why would he? if he could live without them why does he come back? can´t be his garage stuff cuz he could easily make a base anywhere or have non at allif he can do anything anywhere at anytime, i want to know why he grounds himself ith Morty and the family, there is a reason, adn that is was appeals to me, is the reasons he does all taht despite his lack of morality and humanity toards everything else, nothing is good or evil, its a constract, a human constract, and losing it every action can only be persived only by an outside by their moral compass, and in Ricks view it is justified by a reason, no matter how vile it can be.

I don't think he believes you when you say the enter key is his friend.

That whole response was technically only 3 sentences. x_x

^^^^^^^

And it's been clearly referenced multiple times he's suffering from severe/chronic depressions and it self medicating (the character) on top of real life emotional stuff (so of course this season, regardless of fanservice, will be reflecting that), people who're suffering like that ARE miserable people. SO I guess to me the writing of the show already being the way it is, the shows doing what it intended to do and it's being misconceived as "lazy" or just a trope they're following for mons, but I don't feel that way yet.

I dunno, I think this show is only going to work for people who understand "Rick" in such a way that they've met someone that convoluted in real life XD. Someone I love with all my heart is a destructive rick. He's not a shitty person and he actually means well, but his own abuse, self perceptions, and overall baggage has him locked into this fucked up shitty life cycle and he's just drowning constantly and even I know how that feels. I hate the show because it's sorta mirroring people right now, and I think that's why it's easy to hate it. It's easy to hate what people have become right now :'). I know it bothers me a lot if I think on it too much XD.

When you know someone IRL, who's so lost in their own self defacing habits (take your pick: self harm, drugs, bad relationships ) they're like rick. They're just fucking like him. They feel lost, sad, tortured and often miss the real cause of the issues all along and many of them are showing out and trying to "ruin" everything in the hopes that someone can come along and prove them wrong. When that doesn't happen, you keep getting someone like rick. When no one's there to put a little perspective in and help them bust through stuff headlong, they just wander around miserable until then.

I've done a lot of work in a lot of REALLY broken places, and you'd be so slammed to know how many people out there right now are ricks, well meaning, but still ricks. Lots of them, thousands of them, myself included. Rick feels real to me because there are lost, good people out there who suffer and don't know who or where to turn. Balls of frustration and sadness and it only makes them pricklier and harder to love, thus furthering them from their goals. Worked up and absolutely lost about what to do with live XD. I think rick is an asshole, just like some of the people I know, because

Not saying you don't have a point at all, but pointing out a lot of people just like rick exist and live day to day and the whole entire reason people even like the show, is because there are a lot of people like that. Misery loves company. I personally have a lot of piss poor outlooks on life, but I HOPE to be proved wrong, but I find myself frustrated, like rick, with the entire world and it makes me bitter. XD Hard not to be a rick when humanity makes you really despise them sometimes. I won't toss you any examples, I think the news in a day gives you more than plenty XD.

Just food for though/devil's advocate!

I'm honestly right there with you. This season has just not landed for me, the jokes aren't that funny, the gore is over the top, and where it tries to deconstruct it feels lazily derivative even when it points out its being derivative, which just feels like lazy writing rather than smart writing.

I'm curious where the plot goes, but yeah, it feels like its scraping the barrel and now just rehashing ideas. We get it, Rick is hyper competent but also his biggest detriment to anything.

This last episode I just felt like Morty, just watching everything with a resigned, impassive sigh and shrug of my shoulders because nothing matters.

I'd watch THAT episode.

Well, I personally think there's a lot more to it. It's not really about bad things happening to bad people in my opinion, but rather people who don't know how to deal with complex emotions trying to deal with them in their own way. The most brilliant minds are often the most tortured, and I think the show is trying to reflect that.

A large part of it may be that Dan Hartman is sorta pouring his own feelings into the show as well. If you notice, there's a big difference in the end credit cards between season 2 and 3. In season 1 and 2, it shows a man, woman, dog, and cat sitting happily together by a fire after each episode. In season 3, it shows a much bleaker image of a man alone with a cat and dog, drinking and laying on the couch. This is because that credit card belongs to Dan Hartmon, who recently went through a divorce, and it has affected him deeply. The original card was showing him together with his wife, because she was such a big part of his life, and the new one shows what his life has become since losing her.

In the end, Rick and Morty is pessimistic and nihilistic because the characters themselves are, and because the universe we live in is. It's about finding meaning in a world that doesn't care about how we feel, and dealing with the fact that things usually don't go the way we want them to. In the words of Picard: "you can do everything right, and still fail."

I think the main purpose of the show is to illustrate how when life deals you a bad hand, it's not always because you did something wrong. You could be literally the smartest man in the universe, and know more than any sentient being alive, and STILL not have all the right answers. You would still struggle with emotions, and trauma, because those things are not measurable or quantifiable in any way. It's to show that we all kinda share the human experience together, for better or worse, and that none of us are "above" it.

This comment x1000. <3.

I didn't like the show from the start.

I've never really understood what the draw of things like that are in the first place. People kept saying it was 'cerebral' and 'deep' and 'funny'. i just saw people treating each other like shit and hoping it was funny to someone... which it turned out it was to a lot of people. It made me thing it was a kind of artificial schadenfreude, where you see people being abused or having bad things happen to them, and think it's funny because 'Boy, I would HATE for something like that to happen to me! But it's pretty hilarious when it happens to that OTHER guy!'

...I just never saw the draw of it. I vaguely blame cartoons like Family Guy and American Dad and South Park, which at least tried to combine ridiculous and silly and actual funny things with the jabs they took at anything anyone else ever held sacred or dear. It was only a matter of time before someone made a show that tossed even that flimsy premise against straight making fun of people and things the artists don't like into a show.

Personally, I feel that the show -is- a trope deconstruction. It's intended purpose is to eventually show how pointless and meaningless tropes (and by virtue the show) is. It explores these facets and brazenly and unabashedly attacks anything relevant to the show, its viewers or society as a whole.

This doesn't mean the show is necessarily a good show, merely that it is doing its intended purpose, if the viewer starts to wonder "What's the point of all this" and grows bored with it.

Considering the depth of the writing in the last season, I bet it's got a purpose and we'll see later in the show. If it's boring you just walk away though, be done with it. Maybe in two or three years you'll re-visit the show and perhaps find enjoyment in it then after the season is more developed.

Also worth mentioning, there really are people like Rick, and I guess the appeal in the show IS what you find upsetting XD. I think it's fine to not like it, but it's straight up doing exactly what they're intending it to do (+1 to all the comments here for being real good reads<3). I think it's just kinda subjective and if you're not liking it just walk away! No harm no fowl.

Which is why everyone should just watch Bojack instead.

Bojack is one of my favorite shows. It does a lot of what Rick and Morty does, but better.

I tried to get into it, but all I could see it was just another "Adult Cartoon Critic Darling" with very cringy and uncomfortable comedy and a very bland art style.

It just feels like the only thing America is allowed to make is offensive comedies, soul crushing dramas, offensive comedies or soul crushing dramas. All in that bland Calarts noodle arm art.

Perhaps the most depressing is the dip in animation quality from American studios or targeted cartoons. In anime, I can find some of the dumbest, raunchiest porn, and it will still be rendered lovingly and in HD.
Seems like even of we have a compelling story to tell, we have to hide it behind a lack of effort. (Apparently that's a shame? because I'm supposed to watch Adventure Time?)

I know, right!

Sad thing is a lot of those hentai/porn is actually cheaper to produce, hell I've actually seen fan animation done beautifully with no money and time.

I guess American Studios bought into the best stories can afford no effort anywhere else, which is a silly idea as you might as well do a radio show instead.

I never thought the show was supposed to be 'cerebral' I mean the damn rough draft was Morty having to lick Rick's balls! Is it because he's a scientists? Is the fact it's science fiction why people started recommending it as a heavy thinking piece? Cuz it certainly isn't, I enjoy it for other reasons I can't really put into words.

If you don't like it, why are you wasting your time watching it just to rag on it?

That's pretty much the whole basis of critique.

A lot of people will stick around, hoping it gets better. I guess Lapinbeau just reached the point where his hope ran out. 8)

But if you complain about a show being too pessimistic, dystopian and depressing, and you exercise all the same qualities in your cerebral, deeply analytical cirtique, you're being a major hypocrite and that does not play well in favor of one's critique.

So you can't critique a show that's depressing because it got to a point where you no longer appreciate that kind of overdone shock value writing? That concept means that negative shows are impossible to critique, and criticism is a necessary pain.

If you're incapable of writing critique without succumbing to the sins of the subject, don't bother. But whatever, you went through quite a lot of effort to misrepresent what I wrote.

I was more referring to your "why watch it if you just want to rag on it" comment.

Yet you didn't reply to that one... Point still stands. If you don't like eating shit, why do it and then vocally complain about how this particular shit did not match your highly developed shit-palate and in fact the whole of shit-industry has been going downhill for the past who-knows-how-long?

the best part is that the people who really hate it will keep watching it so that they can continue to bitch about how bad it is every episode lol

I saw a couple episodes when it began airing, and I really never understood how it would take off. I still do not understand the hype the show has and cult following it has garnered. The characters are just.. I have no idea how to describe them.. the stuttering lines that you always get from the main characters and the consistent barfing or whatever from Morty is just annoying more than anything. Then the simplistic nature of the issue just makes it a yawn fest. Not comedy, maybe a short chuckle, but that is about it.

The same exact thing happened to BoJack Horseman. I couldn't even finish the last season.

...........................I haven't watched a TV in 4 years.

You're not missing much.

I only use my TV for gaming.

So you're saying rick and morty hurt your feelings. Because everyone acts like self interested assholes, which if you actually broke the walls of society and propriety down that people act like naturally. Why do you think personnel management is a skill rather than just something everyone does. It's taking all these self interests and putting them towards a cohesive goal.

Some of us have this thing called "empathy."

I do hope you remember your empathy when the lights go out.

I hope you remember your Apathy when you are in a dire situation.

Oh god. you mean that people will leave me alone to grow stronger and live a better life despite whatever's going on. Oh no please. Don't condemn me to a life of actual improvement.

You are an adult, but you are not a real grown up. You are the problem with the world, you are the problem with America itself, you are a horrible parasite who reads Catcher in the Rye and think, "I'm gonna be no phonie".

You are childish to the nth degree, getting this upset because someone challenges your hollow ideals, you are worse then any religious person, you are an Ameriboo loser.

Empathy always has a selfish rooting. Either through a sense of security (if I don't do this, then I know I will be safer from others doing it to me), sense of belonging (if I do this, it will bring me closer to these individuals), or sense of esteem (either 'doing this will make me feel good about myself' or 'I am above that thing'). And this is a VERY important thing to know: selfishness isn't bad at its root, because everything we will ever do will be rooted in the satisfaction of our own personal needs and wants. It's only when selfishness comes at the detriment of others that is becomes a negative construct.

These are core psychological principals, ones maslow laid out, because as a positivist psychologist, there was an understanding that in order to improve one's self, one has to understand one's self. And while it isn't appealing to think that at our core, all the things we do are actually 'me first' in some way at base, it allows us to become better versed in our own operations and to engage in cognizant alterations of our behaviors to reach personal growth, or self actualization.


Honestly, that's what I felt was surface level of this assumption that rick is just truly always right and thus his perspective is the one we operate from. Rick is an individual who is in a perpetual existential crisis, because he understands life is pointless, but falls to absurdism in the idea that trying to give life a point or order is fruitless. In contrast, morty observes the existential dilemmas that rick throws out, and does not simply subordinate to rick's interpretations, but instead takes those statements about reality, and applies humanist principles to it: that we should say fuck you to the idea that the universe has to remain pointless, rather taking a humanist approach of value and meaning in love are able to be developed by each person for themselves, and they are just as real and valid as any presumed objective value would ever be.

Thank you very much for giving a very, very detailed and cogent answer to this. Yes empathy at it's base is selfish, you know, this sounds like something Jung would say. Then again I haven't read any of his works. Can you recommend any?

It may or may not be jung. Jung's specific elements are not too well known to me, as I spent the least amount of time on that period of psychology, and didn't read as much of the classic literature. The bulk of my learnings was textbooks, personal reading on other things, and intuition and extrapolation; as my degree is more about practical application of psychological theory in workplace and consumer environments, heavily overlapping with general psychology. Looking at the works of Maslow and Rogers may be a solid starting point for discussing humanist principles and positive growth from psychology, as Jungian/Freudian psychology was more focused on explaining psychology in order to pinpoint where things go wrong more than where they go right.

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Rick and Morty. The humour is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical physics most of the jokes will go over a typical viewer's head. There's also Rick's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his characterisation- his personal philosophy draws heavily from Narodnaya Volya literature, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these jokes, to realise that they're not just funny- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Rick & Morty truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in Rick's existential catchphrase "Wubba Lubba Dub Dub," which itself is a cryptic reference to Turgenev's Russian epic Fathers and Sons. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Dan Harmon's genius wit unfolds itself on their television screens. What fools.. how I pity them.

Can I see your Rick and Morty Tattoo? Or is it just for the ladies who's IQ's are 5 points of your own?

It's a copypasta, m8.

I know, my comment was mentioning the last part of the Copypasta:

"And yes by the way, I DO have a Rick and Morty tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the ladies' eyes only- And even they have to demonstrate that they're within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand."

Bamboozled by my own hand.

Good freakin lord.

For someone to be *that* intellectually insecure as they'd right that. I can only hope they were joking.

Honestly, just boasting about your IQ in general should show off how little that person understands how intelligence works.

Yeah I'm kind of in the same boat. It's kind of become too formulaic, and CAN'T IMAGINE WHY but the plotlines seem to revolve around dysfunctional marriages waaaaay too much.

Yeah, I get where you're coming from in all honesty...

I mean, I haven't given up on it, but I'm not having as much fun with the show as I did previous seasons. I'm hoping things get better. But for now it just comes off as mean spirited, angry, and bitter (Which I understand given what happened with the creator) especially with this last episode. I didn't laugh once, and it's actually starting to get rather predictable.

I think what helps is that one of my family members is SO much like Rick that it's scary; he has the same out look on life and is just as cynical and nihilistic to the point where he often just spurts out truths that completely ruin the moment and he's often glad he did so because he's obsessed with being right no matter how others feel about him.

I... feel bad for him in all honesty, and part of why I watch is because I see a lot of this person in Rick. (Oddly enough I think this show has kind of helped me understand him more)

I think I've found just the poster to describe your post:

http://i48.servimg.com/u/f48/14/68/72/11/0487.jpg

Yeah, pretty much exactly that.

Wow, that was quite a strong reaction!

Now, just in the interests of science, I kind of want to strap you down to a chair like Alex from A Clockwork Orange and force you to watch a bunch of British black comedy like Jam, Snuff Box, and Nighty Night. I think your head might in fact explode. :)

Believe me, comedy comes a hell of a lot darker than Rick and Morty in other parts of the world. I guess I'm just used to it?

It tries to entertain through sheer shock value which gets idiotic quickly. So they try to pad it out with these little speeches about reflecting on life and how 'its just shit and its all for shit and nothing is worth doing and wake up and smell the coffee, I'm just doing this for me'. Its kiddy level nihilism.

It doesn't attempt to deal with any of the subjects it addresses with any tact or sublety, i.e. depression/alcoholism and instead just makes a flashy 'shocking' show out of it.

Its like a Christopher Nolan film in that it tries so hard to expand the boundaries, to shock you and to have some deep, analytical speeches that apparently 'cut to the core' every 5 minutes. It is a very tiring cycle. I can honestly still watch it, but only if I turn off myself off. If it was just the nonsense humour I wouldn't mind. Everything else including the apparent character development I just can't be bothered with.

It really hasn't figured out what kind of show it is.

Yeah, there's a couple people on this very comment section who are like that.

Immature fight-seekers, I mean.

Yeah, totally. THere's other people in this journal that disagree with me, and I totally respect that. But a couple of them are just SO freaking immature about it.

Granted I'm only in the first season ight now but I don't know if I'd describe it as pessimistic so much as it is nihilistic.

As for it being deep...I dunno. I'm not getting a vibe that it thinks its clever. I'm sure there's a section of the fandom who thinks its clever because it speaks to them, but as something of a nihilist myself I laugh because it's kinda what I'm thinking already but...

I dunno, I'm kinda putting it up there with some of the dark jokes I make. The humour doesn't come from believing in what I say, the humour comes from the shock value of having heard it.

I'm taking it as popcorn viewing rather than something deep and meaningful that pokes fun at the establishment and tweaks the nose of the silly optimists with their dreams and what have you. I just enjoy it so far for what it is. Something well animated, twisted, a little dark and a bit outrageous.

I don't know if I completely agree. Morty is the positive to Rick's negative, they balance each other out. Without Morty, Rick would lose all touch with reality and he probably would have commited suicide long ago, which means ALL Ricks would commit suicide without their Mortys. You can see what Rick has done in many episodes to keep Mortys with their Ricks in all realms of existence, not because he wants him there, but because he actually NEEDS him there due to all Mortys being that positive innocence that keeps him tied to this world, and sometimes directs Rick to know what choice is morally right.

Rick treats Morty like trash because he treats everyone like trash. Beth, Jerry and Morty seriously worry about Rick and his destructive behavior, they stick by him as a family would, and layer on that humanitarian side that Rick often chooses to forget. It's very much based on what many real families have to deal with in terms of family conflicts, except this show decides to magnify it to the absolute limit and see what happens. It's deep only in the sense of the relationships that they have set in place, i think. Otherwise it would just be a show about a drunk science genius blowing stuff up and killing billions of creatures.. which would be a terrible show if it wasn't for that strong "human" element that is brought in by Ricks family to attempt to rationalize whats happening and often bring Rick back down to earth.

Anyway, that's the way I view the show.

BTW.. forgot to add that now that Ricks supportive family is divorced, it puts the characters in an interesting spot that im excited to see due the change in dynamic. Rick doesn't have to deal with Jerry in his house anymore, yet in the upcoming episode, Rick actually takes Jerry along on an adventure. That's a huge step for Rick to even consider that.

I get that it feels like there's too much negativity in later seasons, there is way too much. They are attempting to push Rick and his family to their limits to see if they'll break. But doing so forces the characters to grow stronger and change. It's a good change in that regard, hope this bumpy road will lead us to greater plots.